In general it is a 9/10 skill tree

[MrsBoris]

The shadow affinity went live, OOF. But OVERALL IT WAS AN AMAZING 9/10 UPDATE FOR WX so i'm happy

I have a question, was klei's transparency during this beta really so different from the betas before?

[gaymime]

with one really awful exception this is about how it has been for the 6 years i have been around but people have reeaaal short memories so yanno, it is how it is

[Picklesaurus]

I really liked how Wx skill tree turned out, the overall beta experience for it was mostly chill which I appreciate. 
The only thing I feel missing is exploiterators interacting better with planar enemies/against planar entity defense.

Edited May 1 by Picklesaurus

[Ugur01]

7 hours ago, MrsBoris said:

I have a question, was klei's transparency during this beta really so different from the betas before?

Partially, yes. To clarify, Beta 2.0 introduced a design overhaul for the shadow ability along with several numerical nerfs. The community expressed their dissatisfaction with these changes. When the reasoning behind these adjustments remained unexplained, players began questioning the motives behind them.

The lack of response even led to threads specifically criticizing the communication gap. Despite repeated requests for clarification, they have moved forward without offering any explanation. Complaints are visible under every single post, including the most recent update notes.

Update Post #1 Update Post #2    Update Post #3

Perhaps if they had provided some clarification, it would have been beneficial for both sides. It would have prevented this many complaints and people would have known exactly what to expect.

Edited May 1 by Ugur01

[Jakepeng99]

Im happy with the shadow changes.

The nerfs made it more interesting, as a flat 25% damage buff basically is almost Wigfrid powercreep and isnt that interesting.

[Hi.]

It's really good probably up there with walter's skill tree. It made WX more of a "build your own character" rather than a "just stick in 3 speed cirrcuts" 1 problem except for the affinitys, is that you can just get slot in a bunch of hp cirrcuts/beanboosters and hold f to win while still having speed/other cirrcuts but doesn't work all the time. but besides that it's pretty cool.

[Jussatoon]

11 minutes ago, Hi. said:

bunch of hp cirrcuts/beanboosters

Just hardy circuits; Beanbooster is no longer reliable in combat. 

[Hi.]

Just now, Jussatoon said:

Beanbooster is no longer reliable in combat. 

wait what? don't they heal 5hp every 30 secs?

[Reddddd]

12 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Im happy with the shadow changes.

The nerfs made it more interesting, as a flat 25% damage buff basically is almost Wigfrid powercreep and isnt that interesting.

True, overall wx feels more weak endgame to make up for his incredible early game, like woodie.

[Wawchik]

Is it possible to not slip on the ice when using the spin cycle circuit? The pain I had to endure while fighting crab king with a pick/axe cannot be described 

[Mysterious box]

13 minutes ago, Reddddd said:

True, overall wx feels more weak endgame to make up for his incredible early game, like woodie.

I feel like his Maul spin more than makes up for it.

[Baark0]

2 hours ago, Jussatoon said:

Just hardy circuits; Beanbooster is no longer reliable in combat. 

Beanbooster is amazing for the regen alone, 10hp/minute is nothing to scoff at. It pairs very nicely with dreadstone armor, as now you only need to spend resources on weapons. The shield is alright, but because of the passive health regen it basically just functions as an extra 40 max health, which functionally is an extra hardy circuit minus the damage reduction.

17 minutes ago, Reddddd said:

True, overall wx feels more weak endgame to make up for his incredible early game, like woodie.

Spin-cycle Maul is really good dps, you can get like 300 or so dps with it, 4 exploiter drones, a max hit streak void cowl, and shadow affinity vs a lunar mob, and thats when fighting a planar entitiy. You could also use electrifying circuits for even more damage while facetanking.

[Picklesaurus]

49 minutes ago, Reddddd said:

True, overall wx feels more weak endgame to make up for his incredible early game, like woodie.

This comparison is like the Hydrogen Bomb Vs Coughing Baby meme.
Wx's current end game is much much better than Woodie's, Wx has the spin circuit, lunar affinity army, shadow affinity mimicked items and his circuits work with endgame gear, unlike Woodie's Wereforms.
Woodie's endgame is coming to terms with the realization that Wereforms have no endgame and using the portal to change to a character whose perks are not incompatible with rift gear. 

Edited May 2 by Picklesaurus

[Reddddd]

3 hours ago, Picklesaurus said:

This comparison is like the Hydrogen Bomb Vs Coughing Baby meme.
Wx's current end game is much much better than Woodie's, Wx has the spin circuit, lunar affinity army, shadow affinity mimicked items and his circuits work with endgame gear, unlike Woodie's Wereforms.
Woodie's endgame is coming to terms with the realization that Wereforms have no endgame and using the portal to change to a character whose perks are not incompatible with rift gear. 

Hmm, that saying:

Woodie also has AoE damage and built-in regen and armor...

He has treeguard cheeses as well (that is way better than the chassis) and the poisonous birchnuts (that can also deal with hordes) 

If you think Wx-78 endgame is any better than Woodie, you probably dont play woodie that often 😕 Wx-78 can either have more drones or be slightly worse than woodie/wurt in army cheese. 

Wx-78 biggest things for him is probably his electric circuit that will punish bosses back and his stats, but in no way his endgame is any good or meaningful by the point you get possessed chassis/possessed atrium, and if you're talking about raw power and switching characters go willow/wortox/wolfgang if you just want to have the best character for endgame gear content. 

Or even better. Just play woodie, get alot of treeguard idols, spawn any boss. He's an more expensive wurt, but he can definetly just make bosses trivial, even if they're endgame related. 

Wx-78 would still struggle with endgame bosses as far as im aware if you're going only with his base skill tree and not "universal" cheeses.

4 hours ago, Baark0 said:

Beanbooster is amazing for the regen alone, 10hp/minute is nothing to scoff at. It pairs very nicely with dreadstone armor, as now you only need to spend resources on weapons. The shield is alright, but because of the passive health regen it basically just functions as an extra 40 max health, which functionally is an extra hardy circuit minus the damage reduction.

Spin-cycle Maul is really good dps, you can get like 300 or so dps with it, 4 exploiter drones, a max hit streak void cowl, and shadow affinity vs a lunar mob, and thats when fighting a planar entitiy. You could also use electrifying circuits for even more damage while facetanking.

Yes thats true but i dont think his endgame is what his skill tree was aimed at... surely its a nice dps with shadow maul, but all other skills are seeing his early to midgame an breeze, while endgame you'd have to use some braincells (not a negative thing btw) 

Same way woodie can shine endgame with tree guard idols, its not what its exactly intended for but it works and whatever floats your boat. (Although wx-78 seems to be more focused on AoE damage and damage retribution, Dreadstone Armor is more midgame? Specially with wx, both bee queen and nightmare werepig are just speed circuit and spin circuit rodeos, he's definetly strong endgame if you know what you're doing. Hope this comes across as a clear message)

Tl;dr

His endgame aint weak, it just feels more weak compared to his other skills that are more mid-game and casual content related not comparing him to woodie directly

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel like his Maul spin more than makes up for it.

Yeah, but then thats one specific endgame gear and lunar affinity has more dps iirc? He definetly has endgame strenghts, just that his strenght is not focused on his endgame or long-term commitment to his skill feel meaningful in the gameplay

[Jakepeng99]

10 hours ago, Baark0 said:

Spin-cycle Maul is really good dps, you can get like 300 or so dps with it, 4 exploiter drones, a max hit streak void cowl, and shadow affinity vs a lunar mob, and thats when fighting a planar entitiy. You could also use electrifying circuits for even more damage while facetanking

He does even more damage if you use any celestial crown insyead of the void cowel. Sainity circuits will keep you at the Sainity threshold.

6 hours ago, Reddddd said:

Hmm, that saying:

Woodie also has AoE damage and built-in regen and armor...

He has treeguard cheeses as well (that is way better than the chassis) and the poisonous birchnuts (that can also deal with hordes) 

If you think Wx-78 endgame is any better than Woodie, you probably dont play woodie that often 😕 Wx-78 can either have more drones or be slightly worse than woodie/wurt in army cheese. 

Wx-78 biggest things for him is probably his electric circuit that will punish bosses back and his stats, but in no way his endgame is any good or meaningful by the point you get possessed chassis/possessed atrium, and if you're talking about raw power and switching characters go willow/wortox/wolfgang if you just want to have the best character for endgame gear content. 

Or even better. Just play woodie, get alot of treeguard idols, spawn any boss. He's an more expensive wurt, but he can definetly just make bosses trivial, even if they're endgame related. 

Wx-78 would still struggle with endgame bosses as far as im aware if you're going only with his base skill tree and not "universal" cheeses.

Yes thats true but i dont think his endgame is what his skill tree was aimed at... surely its a nice dps with shadow maul, but all other skills are seeing his early to midgame an breeze, while endgame you'd have to use some braincells (not a negative thing btw) 

Same way woodie can shine endgame with tree guard idols, its not what its exactly intended for but it works and whatever floats your boat. (Although wx-78 seems to be more focused on AoE damage and damage retribution, Dreadstone Armor is more midgame? Specially with wx, both bee queen and nightmare werepig are just speed circuit and spin circuit rodeos, he's definetly strong endgame if you know what you're doing. Hope this comes across as a clear message)

Tl;dr

His endgame aint weak, it just feels more weak compared to his other skills that are more mid-game and casual content related not comparing him to woodie directly

Yeah, but then thats one specific endgame gear and lunar affinity has more dps iirc? He definetly has endgame strenghts, just that his strenght is not focused on his endgame or long-term commitment to his skill feel meaningful in the gameplay

High speed and stats with utilities are useful at all game stages.

He also has the higher teir clones, and the spatialiser circuit for end game, and the possessed shadow atrium.

[Picklesaurus]

23 hours ago, Reddddd said:

Hmm, that saying:

23 hours ago, Reddddd said:

If you think Wx-78 endgame is any better than Woodie, you probably dont play woodie that often 😕 

I don't know if that was your intent since there is no tone of voice in typed words, but this reads both dismissive and passive aggressive. 

23 hours ago, Reddddd said:

Or even better. Just play woodie, get alot of treeguard idols, spawn any boss. He's an more expensive wurt, but he can definetly just make bosses trivial, even if they're endgame related. 

This is exactly my point, you just helped me exemplify it by resuming Woodie's entire endgame to a single treeguard idol talent: I play Woodie for his Wereforms, not to be budget Wurt. I could care less about the treeguard idols, if the only thing I wanted to do was this kind of gameplay I would play Wurt, not Woodie. 

Most characters with a skilltree have a better endgame than Woodie not simply because of the strength of their endgame - which is usually better than his - but because they are still playing around with the main gimmick of their kits but now in an endgame setting. The main gimmick for Woodie are his Wereforms and I'm actively having to find reasons to continue using 2 out of the 3 Wereforms before endgame even starts, once endgame arrives - and I get access to rift gear - it is just the nail in the coffin for the third one - Weremoose - that gets demoted to hound removal device because Woodie's human form with rift gear and inventory access ends up being better in 90% of the situations than turning into moose. He is one of the only post skill tree characters whose main gimmick is so redundant/incompatible with his own gameplay during endgame. Imagine if other characters main gimmick got disabled while using rift gear: Wendy without abi, Willow without big bernie or firepowers, Wortox without souls, Wx without circuits, etc... This is how Woodie end game feels like. I'm not saying that Wereforms should be able to use rift gear of course, but I'm saying Woodie should have a way to improve his wereforms so they don't feel so bad during endgame.

Saying post skill tree Wx's endgame is somewhat similar to Woodie's and justifying it by talking about treeguards is a really big stretch that both super values a single skill tree talent  that turns Woodie into a cluncky budget Wurt and undervalues Wx's entire post skill tree kit. I wish you were right and they were comparable tho, because then Woodie's endgame wouldn't feel so perkless.  I don't care if Woodie's endgame will always be weaker than others, but I would like him to have an endgame where interacting with his core Wereform mechanic feels rewarding and a treeguard talent is not it.  

Edited Sunday at 03:05 AM by Picklesaurus

[Reddddd]

5 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

He does even more damage if you use any celestial crown insyead of the void cowel. Sainity circuits will keep you at the Sainity threshold.

High speed and stats with utilities are useful at all game stages.

He also has the higher teir clones, and the spatialiser circuit for end game, and the possessed shadow atrium.

Yes, any character can shine endgame, not my point at all. His skills are inclined to his early and mid game but they dont stop being useful at late game, happily. But that doesnt mean his power spike is locked behind endgame or that his endgame feels specially strong because of his skill trees or kit, in fact i think wx endgame is where he starts showing some balance or struggle.

5 hours ago, Picklesaurus said:

I don't know if that was your intent since there is no tone of voice in typed words, but this reads both dismissive and passive aggressive. 

This is exactly my point, you just helped me exemplify it by resuming Woodie's entire endgame to a single treeguard idol talent: I play Woodie for his Wereforms, not to be budget Wurt. I could care less about the treeguard idols, if the only thing I wanted to do was this kind of gameplay I would play Wurt, not Woodie. 

Most characters with a skilltree have a better endgame than Woodie not simply because of the strength of their endgame - which is usually better than his - but because they are still playing around with the main gimmick of their kits but now in an endgame setting. The main gimmick for Woodie are his Wereforms and I'm actively having to find reasons to continue using 2 out of the 3 Wereforms before endgame even starts, once endgame arrives - and I get access to rift gear - it is just the nail in the coffin for the third one - Weremoose - that gets demoted to hound removal device because Woodie's human form with rift gear and inventory access ends up being better in 90% of the situations than turning into moose. He is one of the only post skill tree characters whose main gimmick is so redundant/incompatible with his own gameplay during endgame. Imagine if other characters main gimmick got disabled while using rift gear: Wendy without abi, Willow without big bernie or firepowers, Wortox without souls, Wx without circuits, etc... This is how Woodie end game feels like. I'm not saying that Wereforms should be able to use rift gear of course, but I'm saying Woodie should have a way to improve them so they don't feel so bad during endgame.

Saying post skill tree Wx's endgame is somewhat similar to Woodie's and justifying it by talking about treeguards is a really big stretch that both super values a single skill tree talent  that turns Woodie into a cluncky budget Wurt and undervalues Wx's entire post skill tree kit. I wish you were right and they were comparable tho, because then Woodie's endgame wouldn't feel so perkless.  I don't care if Woodie's endgame will always be weaker than others, but I would like him to have an endgame where interacting with his core Wereform mechanic feels rewarding and a treeguard talent is not it.  

How can you project your personal playstyle as the definitive standard for a character?

To be clear, I am not comparing WX-78’s kit to Woodie’s kit directly. My point is about how the developers designed their progression. While WX-78 has endgame-related skills, his primary value shines in the early and mid-game. This is a design "inclination."

Compare this to characters like Willow or Wortox:

• Willow gains Fire Embers and massive endgame damage bonuses.
• Wortox scales into a high-damage powerhouse by the late game.

Their skill trees are specifically inclined toward the endgame. In contrast, Woodie and WX-78 provide massive utility that peaks early on. While any character can technically "shine" at any point in the game in the hands of a skilled player, the design focus for Woodie and WX is clearly front-loaded.

Addressing the Logic Gap

Your argument is: "I don’t play Woodie this way, so his endgame is weak." By that logic, I could say: "I don't use the Shadow Maul on WX-78, so he has no endgame." Or: "I find the Lunar affinity clunky and expensive, so it’s the most useless skill in the game." These are personal preferences, not objective truths about character balance. Just because you don’t use a specific tool, or because another character does it differently, doesn't mean the skill is non-existent.

The Bottom Line

When I pointed out on the forums how WX-78 trivializes the early game, people told me, "That’s your opinion; just play someone else." I am offering you that same perspective regarding Woodie’s Treeguard Idols.

If you don’t like the Treeguard setup, Woodie may not be for you. However, your personal distaste doesn't mean the mechanic is "too clunky" for the endgame or that Wurt is a "better" version. Wurt is an army specialist, but Woodie has his own niche. You are dismissing a character's late-game viability simply because it doesn't fit your specific taste.

[Picklesaurus]

11 hours ago, Reddddd said:

How can you project your personal playstyle as the definitive standard for a character?

To be clear, I am not comparing WX-78’s kit to Woodie’s kit directly. My point is about how the developers designed their progression. While WX-78 has endgame-related skills, his primary value shines in the early and mid-game. This is a design "inclination."

Compare this to characters like Willow or Wortox:

• Willow gains Fire Embers and massive endgame damage bonuses.
• Wortox scales into a high-damage powerhouse by the late game.

Their skill trees are specifically inclined toward the endgame. In contrast, Woodie and WX-78 provide massive utility that peaks early on. While any character can technically "shine" at any point in the game in the hands of a skilled player, the design focus for Woodie and WX is clearly front-loaded.

Addressing the Logic Gap

Your argument is: "I don’t play Woodie this way, so his endgame is weak." By that logic, I could say: "I don't use the Shadow Maul on WX-78, so he has no endgame." Or: "I find the Lunar affinity clunky and expensive, so it’s the most useless skill in the game." These are personal preferences, not objective truths about character balance. Just because you don’t use a specific tool, or because another character does it differently, doesn't mean the skill is non-existent.

The Bottom Line

When I pointed out on the forums how WX-78 trivializes the early game, people told me, "That’s your opinion; just play someone else." I am offering you that same perspective regarding Woodie’s Treeguard Idols.

If you don’t like the Treeguard setup, Woodie may not be for you. However, your personal distaste doesn't mean the mechanic is "too clunky" for the endgame or that Wurt is a "better" version. Wurt is an army specialist, but Woodie has his own niche. You are dismissing a character's late-game viability simply because it doesn't fit your specific taste.

You’re misrepresenting my argument. I’m not saying "I don't like this playstyle, therefore it’s bad." I’m saying Woodie’s core mechanic - his Wereforms - doesn't work/scale well into endgame the way other characters’ core mechanics do.

Treeguard idols existing doesn't solve that, because they don't interact meaningfully with his Wereforms - they sidestep them. That’s the difference.

Your WX comparison doesn't quite land either. Even if WX has strong early-game advantages, his core system (circuits) still remains relevant into late game. Same with Willow's fire or Wortox's souls - their identities persist and evolve. Woodie’s Wereforms, on the other hand, become less relevant as better gear becomes available.

That's not a preference issue - it’s a cohesion issue. If a character's defining mechanic gets progressively devalued by the game's own progression systems, that's a design problem that probably didn't even come from the devs intention but as a result of his skill tree being one of the first ones,  they were still learning, finding out how to go about them and how big of a scope they would have. It is so much so that his skill tree doesn't even have background art. Overtime their idea of how skill trees should be changed, I'm not blaming them, it happens, but I'm also not going to pretend that this process didn't result in clear problems for Woodie's skill tree and his endgame.

I'm not saying Woodie is unplayable or that Treeguard idols are useless. I'm saying his endgame doesn’t build on his identity, it encourages you to move away from it. That’s very different from just "not liking a playstyle."

Edited Sunday at 03:12 AM by Picklesaurus

[Reddddd]

47 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

You’re misrepresenting my argument. I’m not saying "I don't like this playstyle, therefore it’s bad." I’m saying Woodie’s core mechanic - his Wereforms - doesn't work/scale well into endgame the way other characters’ core mechanics do.

Treeguard idols existing doesn't solve that, because they don't interact meaningfully with his Wereforms - they sidestep them. That’s the difference.

Your WX comparison doesn't quite land either. Even if WX has strong early-game advantages, his core system (circuits) still remains relevant into late game. Same with Willow's fire or Wortox's souls - their identities persist and evolve. Woodie’s Wereforms, on the other hand, become less relevant as better gear becomes available.

That's not a preference issue - it’s a cohesion issue. If a character's defining mechanic gets progressively devalued by the game's own progression systems, that's a design problem that probably didn't even come from the devs intention but as a result of his skill tree being one of the first ones,  they were still learning, finding out how to go about them and how big of a scope they would have. It is so much so that his skill tree doesn't even have background art. Overtime their idea of how skill trees should be changed, I'm not blaming them, it happens, but I'm also not going to pretend that it is not a problem with the design of his skill tree.

I'm not saying Woodie is unplayable or that Treeguard idols are useless. I'm saying his endgame doesn’t build on his identity, it encourages you to move away from it. That’s very different from just "not liking a playstyle."

Hm, that is once again your own personal opinion about woodie and other characters. Its like, wickerbottom skill tree most likely wont be synergizing with endgame gear, but she will still be mad useful. Winona also doesnt synergize well with endgame gear but her catapults are still mad useful ._. Woodie doesnt synergize well with endgame gear, but his goose form can be useful when you're playing co-op since endgame gear is limited and treeguards idols are still useful and you can even use treeguards + endgame gear normally, making bosses even more trivial then just switching to goose to have his sweet beautiful bonus damage and AoE charge attack.

Yeah, they're going to balance woodie again and rework some skills but the main core of what i said remains: WX skill tree inst about synergizing with endgame gear, its about his early and mid game being consistent and endgame being slightly harder to scale solo or bring usefulness co-op.

Im not saying it does, but wx has an weaker related basekit by the endgame like woodie (that has transformations, hard hats, treeguard idols and etc) such as unplugs or energy recharge skills/exploring drones. You're likely to never use those skills later on but devs cant just think "oh the 10% of players who reach endgame consistently need their skills" they think "we need an way to synergize the 90% of players to make wx an interesting choice while also not completely ignoring his endgame potential."

This is the same for every character except the really really early skills like wolfgang and wilson, which works fine on their own, but doesnt scale well with early or endgame, it just feels like a basekit addition.

All you're saying is woodie is outdated (because transformations cant use endgame gear) but ignoring the fact that other characters except 2 or 3 also doesnt synergize with endgame gear, they just work ok by endgame. Wx is not endgame oriented, his endgame IS FACTUALLY weaker compared to his power spike early and mid game. Its not that his endgame is weak. Same thing about woodie - his transformations do ignore endgame gear but that might be all you're going for in your reply. Factually, most survivors also doesnt interact directly with endgame content in their skill trees cause devs cant just make the hardest content their focus, cause the early game will still be hard for casual players. Why give woodie an endgame content related skill tree if most newbies use woodie for his gathering and more laid back gameplay style? Why make all survivors powerhouses if the game is co-op? Wx endgame being FACTUALLY weaker than the rest of his skill tree power spike is an intended design, woodie being beginner friendly is an intended design. 

Characters that are more experienced oriented tend to have more exclusive crafts or exclusive interactions by doing content most players dont want to go out of their ways to achieve in endgame/midgame. (Wanda, worto, etc)

[Mysterious box]

28 minutes ago, Reddddd said:

Hm, that is once again your own personal opinion about woodie and other characters. Its like, wickerbottom skill tree most likely wont be synergizing with endgame gear, but she will still be mad useful. Winona also doesnt synergize well with endgame gear but her catapults are still mad useful ._. Woodie doesnt synergize well with endgame gear, but his goose form can be useful when you're playing co-op since endgame gear is limited and treeguards idols are still useful and you can even use treeguards + endgame gear normally, making bosses even more trivial then just switching to goose to have his sweet beautiful bonus damage and AoE charge attack.

Yeah, they're going to balance woodie again and rework some skills but the main core of what i said remains: WX skill tree inst about synergizing with endgame gear, its about his early and mid game being consistent and endgame being slightly harder to scale solo or bring usefulness co-op.

Im not saying it does, but wx has an weaker related basekit by the endgame like woodie (that has transformations, hard hats, treeguard idols and etc) such as unplugs or energy recharge skills/exploring drones. You're likely to never use those skills later on but devs cant just think "oh the 10% of players who reach endgame consistently need their skills" they think "we need an way to synergize the 90% of players to make wx an interesting choice while also not completely ignoring his endgame potential."

This is the same for every character except the really really early skills like wolfgang and wilson, which works fine on their own, but doesnt scale well with early or endgame, it just feels like a basekit addition.

All you're saying is woodie is outdated (because transformations cant use endgame gear) but ignoring the fact that other characters except 2 or 3 also doesnt synergize with endgame gear, they just work ok by endgame. Wx is not endgame oriented, his endgame IS FACTUALLY weaker compared to his power spike early and mid game. Its not that his endgame is weak. Same thing about woodie - his transformations do ignore endgame gear but that might be all you're going for in your reply. Factually, most survivors also doesnt interact directly with endgame content in their skill trees cause devs cant just make the hardest content their focus, cause the early game will still be hard for casual players. Why give woodie an endgame content related skill tree if most newbies use woodie for his gathering and more laid back gameplay style? Why make all survivors powerhouses if the game is co-op? Wx endgame being FACTUALLY weaker than the rest of his skill tree power spike is an intended design, woodie being beginner friendly is an intended design. 

Characters that are more experienced oriented tend to have more exclusive crafts or exclusive interactions by doing content most players dont want to go out of their ways to achieve in endgame/midgame. (Wanda, worto, etc)

You've misunderstood something when it's said Woodie doesn't synergize with the endgame it's not a matter of opinion his wereform cannot recieve the benefits of endgame equipment nor can it work alongside it due to being unable to equip it that's completely different from the comparasions you are making except for Wanda who will likely get that fixed in her skill tree. Winona has planar based catapult skills that excel in the endgame and it doesn't lock her out of using the end game planar gear. Wx is in the same camp but has even greater synergizes their sanity circuits make maintaining the crowns sanity requirement easy. His spin circuit which is enhanced by the skill tree directly synergizes with the Maul. Their shadow circuits cloning ability means you don't have to worry about the Maul breaking. Their lunar clones synergize very well with endgame gear and are at their most optional in the endgame. There's more end game synergizes in and outside of the skill tree but I feel like my point has been made.

When it comes to Woodie the majority of his kit just falls off post rift with the beaver's mining abilities being the only thing that shines.

[Hi.]

14 hours ago, Reddddd said:

If you think Wx-78 endgame is any better than Woodie, you probably dont play woodie that often 😕

I main woodie and I can 100% say wx's endgame is a better than woodies. The wereforms are still good but they sort of fall off. Now they aren't useless as you can still solo WARBOT and especially the scion as woodie if you have jellybeans (or not use jellybeans if you are good enough). The moose does have a decent 15 planar defense which is better than a brightshade helm and has decent planar damage (infact his slam does more damage to planar creatures than normal ones because it adds extra planar damage only if it's a planar entity) The problems come in with the mutated bosses and overall dps, I would say it's safer and faster to do the mutated bosses without moose due to the stun mechanics. Im also pretty sure endgame WX with the maul has better dps than the moose (Plus wx's clones get a lot better with the jewels) Though the moose is lot cheaper so if you are going fast i would say the moose would be better. Plus the moose can't wear the jewled crown so that also hurts it's dps. Endgame bosses are also a lot more complicated requiring more items which the moose can't use. 

The goose falls off once you get a beefalo, a rider beefalo with a glossmer saddle is a lot faster than the goose (though sea travel is still better as the goose)

The Beaver is alright I guess but once you have bosses that can destroy things you really don't need the beaver.

Overall woodie's endgame isn't as bad as people say it is but I would say WX's is worse due to the maul. 

 

Also the maul gives healing and since WX attacks faster with the spin cycle that pretty much just makes him a endgame tank.

 

Edited Saturday at 06:33 PM by Hi.

[Mysterious box]

It should be noted also that even in Wanda's case her other abilities are still great into the end game.

[Reddddd]

3 hours ago, Hi. said:

I main woodie and I can 100% say wx's endgame is a better than woodies. The wereforms are still good but they sort of fall off. Now they aren't useless as you can still solo WARBOT and especially the scion as woodie if you have jellybeans (or not use jellybeans if you are good enough). The moose does have a decent 15 planar defense which is better than a brightshade helm and has decent planar damage (infact his slam does more damage to planar creatures than normal ones because it adds extra planar damage only if it's a planar entity) The problems come in with the mutated bosses and overall dps, I would say it's safer and faster to do the mutated bosses without moose due to the stun mechanics. Im also pretty sure endgame WX with the maul has better dps than the moose (Plus wx's clones get a lot better with the jewels) Though the moose is lot cheaper so if you are going fast i would say the moose would be better. Plus the moose can't wear the jewled crown so that also hurts it's dps. Endgame bosses are also a lot more complicated requiring more items which the moose can't use. 

The goose falls off once you get a beefalo, a rider beefalo with a glossmer saddle is a lot faster than the goose (though sea travel is still better as the goose)

The Beaver is alright I guess but once you have bosses that can destroy things you really don't need the beaver.

Overall woodie's endgame isn't as bad as people say it is but I would say WX's is worse due to the maul. 

 

Also the maul gives healing and since WX attacks faster with the spin cycle that pretty much just makes him a endgame tank.

 

And what does wx endgame has to do with woodie endgame? Again, im not comparing their skill directly. Their endgames have their own niches as you have stated yourself, i agree with everything u said, just making it clear that their skills arent comparable, wx is a brand new shiny skill tree woodie is a dusty old skill tree haha

 

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

You've misunderstood something when it's said Woodie doesn't synergize with the endgame it's not a matter of opinion his wereform cannot recieve the benefits of endgame equipment nor can it work alongside it due to being unable to equip it that's completely different from the comparasions you are making except for Wanda who will likely get that fixed in her skill tree. Winona has planar based catapult skills that excel in the endgame and it doesn't lock her out of using the end game planar gear. Wx is in the same camp but has even greater synergizes their sanity circuits make maintaining the crowns sanity requirement easy. His spin circuit which is enhanced by the skill tree directly synergizes with the Maul. Their shadow circuits cloning ability means you don't have to worry about the Maul breaking. Their lunar clones synergize very well with endgame gear and are at their most optional in the endgame. There's more end game synergizes in and outside of the skill tree but I feel like my point has been made.

When it comes to Woodie the majority of his kit just falls off post rift with the beaver's mining abilities being the only thing that shines.

Ok but thats just nitpicking whatever fits that narrative, thats not cohesive to what i said at all 

[Hi.]

53 minutes ago, Reddddd said:

Again, im not comparing their skill directly.

 

5 hours ago, Reddddd said:

but wx has an weaker related basekit by the endgame like woodie

19 hours ago, Reddddd said:

Wx-78 can either have more drones or be slightly worse than woodie/wurt in army cheese. 

19 hours ago, Reddddd said:

Wx-78 endgame is any better than Woodie, you probably dont play woodie that often

23 hours ago, Reddddd said:

overall wx feels more weak endgame to make up for his incredible early game, like woodie.

Compare: to examine the character or qualities of especially in order to discover resemblances or differences

 

 

[Reddddd]

1 minute ago, Hi. said:

 

Compare: to examine the character or qualities of especially in order to discover resemblances or differences

 

 

English isn't my first language, so I’m trying to be as clear as possible: I am talking about archetypes and scaling, not a side-by-side skill checklist.

I think there is a major misunderstanding here. I am not comparing their skills one-by-one. If I were, I’d be talking about Goose speed versus Circuit utility. I am comparing their endgame potential and roles.

When I say WX-78’s base kit is weaker in the endgame, similar to Woodie, I am pointing out a shared design trait. I am not saying "WX is as bad as Woodie." I am saying they share a role similarity: both are powerhouses early on whose skill trees aren't as "inclined" toward endgame scaling as characters like Willow or Wortox.

Direct Comparison: Comparing a Treeguard's AI to a WX-clone's AI. (I am not doing this).

Role Comparison: Comparing how the developers "inclined" their skill trees toward specific phases of the game. (This is my point)

 

If you think WX’s endgame is fundamentally "better" than Woodie's, you're missing the context of my entire argument. I am talking about developer intention. Woodie shines early; WX shines early. They both have endgame tools, but those tools aren't their defining traits.

Arguing over individual skills is pointless when I’m trying to discuss the big picture of how these characters scale. You can either address the point I’m making about their roles and potentials, or you can keep nitpicking individual skills, which isn't what this conversation is about.

 

But of course, you can keep insisting on the "you're comparing them by definition" ignoring all the other context and actual useful replies regarding what they think on wx endgame potential. Whatever makes you giggle ig.