WX needed nerfs, but not like this!

[Electroely]

So I get where the nerfs are coming from. Compared to the current main branch version, this WX is crazy. But I think it's important to acknowledge: the current main branch version of WX-78 SUCKS. Their only trick is equipping a circuit for season immunity and a bit of extra speed, light or night vision. I hope the goal with the nerfs isn't to bring WX-78 down to their previous power level, because their previous power level is very low compared to every other character.

Now, before this last patch, I think the Gastrogain circuit granting 50% reduced hunger drain was absurd, so I was fully expecting it to get nerfed. But why nerf the base values for it? 10% reduced hunger drain is not significant at all, and increasing it to 20% with TWO skill points is similarly not impactful enough to be worth the points. I think it would've been good if the base value stayed the same and the skills increased it to 25% then 30%.

I'm also not a big fan of the health nerf. For a character that has to choose how to distribute their max stats (and scan a Nurse Spider to get the best values for their health), I thought hitting a max of 600 health was pretty fun. Really, I think the most overpowered part of any of this is the ability to heal up your stats on a low-stat chassis then transferring those stats to another chassis with high stats. If WX-78 had to actually heal up that 600 health (or take out the circuits to heal more efficiently thus losing circuit durability), the balancing of it all would make a lot more sense.

And on that topic, why did the Beanbooster's shield get nerfed so hard? Taking ~14 seconds to regen a single point is going to make it take soooooo long to reach the damage-blocking threshold, and with the fact that the shield resets every time you transfer to a different chassis I don't think the shield is going to come into play at all.

As it stands, I think taking Alpha Circuits Tinkering 1 and 2 is a waste of skill points. Which is a shame, because I was thinking that the skill point economy for the character was going to be as competitive was Walter's when we got the gamma circuits.

Lastly, I don't even understand why the Electrification Circuit got nerfed. It was finally feeling good to use! I was having fun! Now the passive effect (the effect I was using the most since it takes so many hits to proc the explosion) is half as effective! Why?!

I don't think all the nerfs are bad, though. I thought getting so much light for a single circuit slot with the Super-Illumination circuit was absurd, so I was expecting that nerf and I think it's a good change to encourage using more than a single circuit or using the Optoelectronic circuit instead.

Besides that, I like the Gamma circuits. I was very perplexed by the Spin-Cycle Circuit's purpose, but knowing that it's missing a core aspect makes me feel better.

I think the Blocking circuit's use is way too limited currently, being pretty much only good for tanking a bunch of spiders or hounds to let your Electrification Circuits proc their explosion. The damage reduction applying after armor means that if you try to block during an actual fight your armor's getting shredded regardless. The cooldown is also way too long. You're not actionable while blocking, so why does it have a two minute cooldown?

And I love the Redigestion circuit. I think the skill point perk of being able to process food that is about to spoil is awesome (though I assume it reducing the stats of the food to 0 is a bug). I just wish there was a way to process more rot faster.

[Jakepeng99]

Only thing they really overdid was the hunger circuit nerf. Most nerfs were minor or kinda justified

Edited April 3 by Jakepeng99

[Electroely]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Only thing they really overdid was the hunger circuit nerf. Most nerfs were minor or kinda justified

After all the nerfs, the Beanbooster shield was the only thing really making me take both Alpha perks (the hunger drain was busted, but I would pass it up for other skills because it's not particularly interesting). Now even that is so slow it's practically worthless for my playstyle.

[hhhhddh]

I agree alpha perks does nothing now, it even not competitive to watts up to me. The threshold I think is a reward for players who don't get hurt much in a boss fight, and now it just a "free beginning hit", for it takes 14*15 = 210 seconds to restore. I think most boss fight in game will not take longer than that, or only a little longer, so there's no reward anymore. 

[Hatboy7]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Only thing they really overdid was the hunger circuit nerf. Most nerfs were minor or kinda justified

I feel like even the hunger circuit nerf is justified, having 300 hunger and 25% less hunger drain would mean you could survive 5 days straight without eating, which is pretty crazy

[burystars]

I  think any nerfs shouldn't happen in original skills. The skill tree should be makes characters more interesting and stronger than before. If there's something that can no longer be done after the skill tree be added, is that really the right change?An example,the official version allow wx have 575 hp,but wx can only reach 440 hp (533 hp with the damage reduction from alpha skill 2) in beta version.Isn't strange?No skill tree have such a form of change before the wx skill tree!

I'm not complaining about the character's strength. I think nerf the skill tree is quite necessary. After all, wx has already gained triple chip slots. I just think it's very unreasonable to nerf the character's base abilities just to control the power of the skill tree

[Koomin]

People that are saying the alpha perks are useless now and a waste of points are wild.  For 2 points with a beanbooster/supergastro/superhardy setup get:

-a regenerating health shield at 1hp/14s

-50% reduced insanity auras

-25% increased sanity from clothing

-5% damage reduction

-20% hunger reduction

This is completely in line with what other characters have received for two skill points (probably even more than what others get but whatever).  I'm absolutely choosing the alpha circuits tinkering at least.

 

[hhhhddh]

7 minutes ago, Koomin said:

People that are saying the alpha perks are useless now and a waste of points are wild.  For 2 points with a beanbooster/supergastro/superhardy setup get:

-a regenerating health shield at 1hp/14s

-50% reduced insanity auras

-25% increased sanity from clothing

-5% damage reduction

-20% hunger reduction

This is completely in line with what other characters have received for two skill points (probably even more than what others get but whatever).  I'm absolutely choosing the alpha circuits tinkering at least.

 

That is what we talking about, it's NOT MUCH!

Bean Booster Circuit:

1hp/14s is nothing at all, bean booster itself without any perk have 1hp/6s, at least make them the same level, because it even doesn't work when health is not full. If shield regens no matter hp is full or not, 1hp/14s maybe fair but it doesn't. It just 20% extra health, if you choose 200/200/200 it just 40 health at all. It's even less than the nerf of one Super-hardy Circuit.

Processing Circuit:

About insanity auras reduce, I won't judge it if you think it's powerful, but shadow creatures are too easy to fight even during boss fight. And in Fuelweaver fight Bee Queen Crown will just cover it. Oh don't forget they nerfed it to 80% per super circuit(with perk). 

Clothing sanity increase, that's good, I don't have anything to say about.

Hardy Circuit:

5%? It's 5 dmg reduce when you wear nothing and get 100dmg. Grass suit provide 60% armour! And it's even less when you wearing armours, and you definite will in fight. If you wear log suit, reduce from Super-hardy Circuit to 100dmg is 100*0.2*0.05=1, it's like...nothing.

Gastrogain Circuit:

Actually it's worth it, as 1/4 effect, won't say it's bad.

So, half of the effect just nothing and it takes 2 insight, not attractive. In my opinion, bean booster and hardy should be buff a little, like back to 1hp/4s and 10% armor.

[Maxil20]

44 minutes ago, Koomin said:

-a regenerating health shield at 1hp/14s

The post above mentioned a good amount of my gripes, but I wanted to highlight this one in particular.

I saw earlier you compared this to Wormwood’s photosynthesis perk, where he heals 1 HP every 10 seconds. The reason this is good for wormwood is he has limited healing options and having a passive source of healing is a pretty nice boon for him. This does not apply to WX, who has zero dietary restrictions and heals the full amount from food.

To emphasize how silly this is, eating a butterfly wing is equivalent to almost two minutes (1:52, to be exact) of shield regen, compressed into a half second eating animation. If you’re eating blue mushrooms its closer to 5 minutes (4:40), and with 40 HP foods its closer to 9 minutes (9:20).

I just fail to see how it’s practical to take a skill for excessively slow healing when just Playing the game normally will outpace the slow shield boost it provides.

[Soul7k]

29 minutes ago, hhhhddh said:

That is what we talking about, it's NOT MUCH!

Bean Booster Circuit:

1hp/14s is nothing at all, bean booster itself without any perk have 1hp/6s, at least make them the same level, because it even doesn't work when health is not full. If shield regens no matter hp is full or not, 1hp/14s maybe fair but it doesn't. It just 20% extra health, if you choose 200/200/200 it just 40 health at all. It's even less than the nerf of one Super-hardy Circuit.

Processing Circuit:

About insanity auras reduce, I won't judge it if you think it's powerful, but shadow creatures are too easy to fight even during boss fight. And in Fuelweaver fight Bee Queen Crown will just cover it. Oh don't forget they nerfed it to 80% per super circuit(with perk). 

Clothing sanity increase, that's good, I don't have anything to say about.

Hardy Circuit:

5%? It's 5 dmg reduce when you wear nothing and get 100dmg. Grass suit provide 60% armour! And it's even less when you wearing armours, and you definite will in fight. If you wear log suit, reduce from Super-hardy Circuit to 100dmg is 100*0.2*0.05=1, it's like...nothing.

Gastrogain Circuit:

Actually it's worth it, as 1/4 effect, won't say it's bad.

So, half of the effect just nothing and it takes 2 insight, not attractive. In my opinion, bean booster and hardy should be buff a little, like back to 1hp/4s and 10% armor.

numbers go brrrt

Spoiler

it takes even more to shave off one full point of damage when armor is taken into consideration. you likely will not notice it
using clops as an example:

• 80% dr to 75 is 15 damage. reduced by 5% is .75 shaved off
• 90% dr brings it down to 7.5 reduced by 5% is .375 damage shaved off

if you want to plug in other boss values this leaves you with

• [planar damage taken after reduction + (damage reduction from armor x damage taken)] x .05
•  (damage reduction from armor x damage taken) x .05
  • dr values from armor: 0.4(60%), 0.3(70%), 0.2(80%), 0.1 (90%), 0.05(95%)

 

Edited April 3 by Soul7k

[Koomin]

1 hour ago, Maxil20 said:

The post above mentioned a good amount of my gripes, but I wanted to highlight this one in particular.

I saw earlier you compared this to Wormwood’s photosynthesis perk, where he heals 1 HP every 10 seconds. The reason this is good for wormwood is he has limited healing options and having a passive source of healing is a pretty nice boon for him. This does not apply to WX, who has zero dietary restrictions and heals the full amount from food.

To emphasize how silly this is, eating a butterfly wing is equivalent to almost two minutes (1:52, to be exact) of shield regen, compressed into a half second eating animation. If you’re eating blue mushrooms its closer to 5 minutes (4:40), and with 40 HP foods its closer to 9 minutes (9:20).

I just fail to see how it’s practical to take a skill for excessively slow healing when just Playing the game normally will outpace the slow shield boost it provides.

I don't disagree that healing is more valuable on Wormwood.  The healing beanbooster thing is one small component of what you get for this skill point though, versus the entirety of what you get for Wormwood's point.  Unfortunately once you see that, your whole argument falls apart.  It's pretty good.

 

1 hour ago, hhhhddh said:

That is what we talking about, it's NOT MUCH!

Bean Booster Circuit:

1hp/14s is nothing at all, bean booster itself without any perk have 1hp/6s, at least make them the same level, because it even doesn't work when health is not full. If shield regens no matter hp is full or not, 1hp/14s maybe fair but it doesn't. It just 20% extra health, if you choose 200/200/200 it just 40 health at all. It's even less than the nerf of one Super-hardy Circuit.

Processing Circuit:

About insanity auras reduce, I won't judge it if you think it's powerful, but shadow creatures are too easy to fight even during boss fight. And in Fuelweaver fight Bee Queen Crown will just cover it. Oh don't forget they nerfed it to 80% per super circuit(with perk). 

Clothing sanity increase, that's good, I don't have anything to say about.

Hardy Circuit:

5%? It's 5 dmg reduce when you wear nothing and get 100dmg. Grass suit provide 60% armour! And it's even less when you wearing armours, and you definite will in fight. If you wear log suit, reduce from Super-hardy Circuit to 100dmg is 100*0.2*0.05=1, it's like...nothing.

Gastrogain Circuit:

Actually it's worth it, as 1/4 effect, won't say it's bad.

So, half of the effect just nothing and it takes 2 insight, not attractive. In my opinion, bean booster and hardy should be buff a little, like back to 1hp/4s and 10% armor.

Yea I'm not sure what to tell you here.  Compare this to what other characters spend skill points on and it is in fact pretty good.  Just stating that it is not much a lot doesn't change that.

[Electroely]

1 minute ago, Koomin said:

The healing beanbooster thing is one small component of what you get for this skill point though, versus the entirety of what you get for Wormwood's point.  Unfortunately once you see that, your whole argument falls apart.  It's pretty good.

No, it really isn't. The shield is far too weak to make a difference, especially since it RESETS every time you transfer your consciousness to a different chassis. hhhhddh already highlighted everything else, but just to re-iterate: An extra 10% hunger drain reduction on top of the existing 10% the Gastrogain circuit has is very minor, and 5% damage reduction is such a miniscule amount that it's not really going to come into play unless you have a VERY close encounter with death. As it stands right now, the skills don't add very much to the Alpha circuits' base functions. You could be spending your skill points on pretty much any other skill and it would improve your experience significantly more.

[probably quinn]

2 hours ago, Koomin said:

For 2 points with a beanbooster/supergastro/superhardy setup get:

 

You can only do this with the 7th slot, so it requires 3 points.

[Koomin]

Just now, Electroely said:

No, it really isn't. The shield is far too weak to make a difference, especially since it RESETS every time you transfer your consciousness to a different chassis. hhhhddh already highlighted everything else, but just to re-iterate: An extra 10% hunger drain reduction on top of the existing 10% the Gastrogain circuit has is very minor, and 5% damage reduction is such a miniscule amount that it's not really going to come into play unless you have a VERY close encounter with death. As it stands right now, the skills don't add very much to the Alpha circuits' base functions. You could be spending your skill points on pretty much any other skill and it would improve your experience significantly more.

I guess I just disagree here then.  I don't find your statements particularly convincing, but it seems you don't find mine either haha.  I think it's very well set up at the moment, I plan to take the beanbooster and it's alpha skill on a lot of my chassis builds, and would be happy if it was kept as-is, or received at most a tiny increase.

1 minute ago, probably quinn said:

You can only do this with the 7th slot, so it requires 3 points.

I mean I don't think this is a useful point to make, as that shows the points being even more valuable and making it clear how many more buffs the skill tree gave.  Unless you were trying to support my statements, in which case yea good point

[edulopes]

5 hours ago, Electroely said:

After all the nerfs, the Beanbooster shield was the only thing really making me take both Alpha perks (the hunger drain was busted, but I would pass it up for other skills because it's not particularly interesting). Now even that is so slow it's practically worthless for my playstyle.

I would say Bean booster is only worth It because It is an upgraded brain circuit

I really wont use It anymore It is worthless compared to another health circuit nos with the nerfs on healing

[HowlVoid]

2 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

The post above mentioned a good amount of my gripes, but I wanted to highlight this one in particular.

I saw earlier you compared this to Wormwood’s photosynthesis perk, where he heals 1 HP every 10 seconds. The reason this is good for wormwood is he has limited healing options and having a passive source of healing is a pretty nice boon for him. This does not apply to WX, who has zero dietary restrictions and heals the full amount from food.

To emphasize how silly this is, eating a butterfly wing is equivalent to almost two minutes (1:52, to be exact) of shield regen, compressed into a half second eating animation. If you’re eating blue mushrooms its closer to 5 minutes (4:40), and with 40 HP foods its closer to 9 minutes (9:20).

I just fail to see how it’s practical to take a skill for excessively slow healing when just Playing the game normally will outpace the slow shield boost it provides.

So what youre saying is that its totally justified on wx because he needs ot LESS not more. After all, this is COMBINED with all the healing he has access to.

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

The post above mentioned a good amount of my gripes, but I wanted to highlight this one in particular.

I saw earlier you compared this to Wormwood’s photosynthesis perk, where he heals 1 HP every 10 seconds. The reason this is good for wormwood is he has limited healing options and having a passive source of healing is a pretty nice boon for him. This does not apply to WX, who has zero dietary restrictions and heals the full amount from food.

To emphasize how silly this is, eating a butterfly wing is equivalent to almost two minutes (1:52, to be exact) of shield regen, compressed into a half second eating animation. If you’re eating blue mushrooms its closer to 5 minutes (4:40), and with 40 HP foods its closer to 9 minutes (9:20).

I just fail to see how it’s practical to take a skill for excessively slow healing when just Playing the game normally will outpace the slow shield boost it provides.

I think the sheild regen so slow now might be a bug. In the patch notes all it said was it halved the healing basically. I remember it being way faster

[edulopes]

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I think the sheild regen so slow now might be a bug. In the patch notes all it said was it halved the healing basically. I remember it being way faster

I think the shield scales with the health regen? Probably

[Cuernito.]

Are nerfs really that bad?

[ShadowDuelist]

The beanbooster shield should reward not getting hit, or using other healing methods.
I think it should be this slow if you keep getting hit and healing with food/gears/healing items, but if you don't get hit or heal with external resources for X time (EG: a minute), it should go up really fast, probably as fast as it was in the Beta.
Basically being the counter-synergy of the new tanking circuits. You either use the skills of one or the other to the max.