WX Circuit talks + Wurt

[viblym]

As per USUAL WX is CANONICALLY NONBINARY and you WILL use they/them to refer to them in my thread. 

WX's entire gimmick is their circuits, you have to slot specific circuits to get specific buffs. You know another character that gets stat buffs? Wurt! So let's compare Wurt as a character to WX really quickly. This is not meant as a huge jab at Wurt out of any particular vendetta I have for her as a character, even though I think her design is very hypocritical compared to various other balancing choices Klei has made. Which is why I'm bringing her up. Because it's inconsistent what Klei considers balanced. It has been 10 years since WX was "meta", back when the character differences were as shallow as a kiddy pool. Large stats does not make a character "overpowered". They are not going to hardcarry you through the game by having 400 hp (sorry, 440. it's not even a clean number). There is such a strange mentality over WX being some uberpowered god from the days where ruins rushing was endgame and the ultimate show of pro gamer strats. The actual dark ages of DST have passed and WX is slacking behind as an incredibly boring character who has fallen so far behind. I want to love WX with all of my heart because I do like their character but their gameplay is bringing nothing to the table. When it came to the question of asking a literal dedicated server of people who love WX, only one of them said that they thought WX was actually fun. They are my friend, I love them with all of my heart, and I pity them. Typically for characters like that you'd have swathes of people bent on defending the character no matter what and insisting that they are good. No, they are bad.

Seeing how Klei has approached Wolfgang, and now WX, I have no hope at all for Wickerbottom, who was considered one of the "meta" characters back in the day. The reputation that these characters had before the entire cast had seen reworks still clearly occupies the mindset of many people in the community, including the developers, even though a great deal of these people haven't even played the characters. In my current testing of the beta at most the circuits have been "oh this is mildly more convenient" and that is where it has ended. So seeing people ripping into the files to dig up whatever stat numbers WX can pool all of their circuit slots into, pointing at a large number and going "It's too op they need to nerf this look at how big this number is!" has disappointed me. To an extent yes you can gauge the strength of something by its numbers, sometimes you don't even need to open the game to know, and it's not like Klei can personally vet every single person to see if they've even tested the content, but it's still demoralizing. To know how impactful something actually is in gameplay when contrasted with how much people hype up the idea on paper. 

Despite being designed as a follower / society building character who relies on her followers, Wurt is packing a crazy amount of perks, compared to Webber (even pre skill tree), Wigfrid (as far as their restrictive diets go), and compared to pretty much everyone else. It's clear Klei had a lot of fun designing her so I'd like to compare what she has to WX since they both have some similarities in perks.

Basic stats. Each one of WX's stat circuits takes up 1-2 slots on a 6 (7 with perk) circuit board. at most you can get one Super of each circuit and then 1 mini of whichever you choose. So with all 3 your stats are 200 across the board. with 100/100/100 as their base stats.

Wurt with Merm King goes from 200/150/150 (Hunger Sanity Health) to 250/200/200. As a buff you get for just having Merm King, something that at least in my experience and from watching literally anyone else play Wurt, you will work towards as one of the first things you get setup, and will have for the rest of your playthrough provided you don't completely neglect feeding him kelp slop. 

Wurt also gets a 33% buff on any vegtable based foods she eats (because vegetables are so weak). And of course, Wurt needs that big hunger stat and bonus! Because of her dietary restriction. Ignore the fact that Wigfrid only has 125 hunger and has no such buff. 

WX gets sanity with the processing circuits, at 2 per minute for super processing. Wurt gets sanity by carrying a singular fish in her inventory at a rate of 3.3 with a fish you can shove in a tin fishin bin and trade out for any other fish (or in caves just carrying starsky) 

WX gets passive healing with the Beanbooster circuit (takes 3 slots so you can only use 2 other stat circuits) at a rate of 5 health per 30 seconds. Wurt with hydrous healing gets 1 health per 15 seconds, and 1 health per 10 seconds with hydrous healing 2. Dronemaster with Circuit tinkering 2 provides a 20 health shield for WX, that now regenerates 1 hp every 15 seconds. Wurt with Slippery hide gets a 30 hp shield with Slippery Hide 1, and a 50 hp shield with Slippery Hide 2. All you need to do is throw a water balloon to get that right back up. 

So now you might be thinking "well those are skill tree perks! You're missing out on the rest of her kit by taking those, it's not comparable to WX" and I want to tell you this: Wurt's skill tree perks stack with other Wurts in the server. Communal kelp dish is pointless when the king's starvation timer had already been buffed before her skill tree even came out, and you can just shovel kelp into his mouth. On top of that a good portion of Wurt players I see outright find it more favorable just to starve the king and feed a new merm than upkeep his hunger. Kings Quests? Industrious Merm and Hardheaded? All of those perks you only need one Wurt running to apply to every Wurt in the server. Even just excluding the king feeding perks you have more than enough insight to get everything else you could possibly want without missing out on anything. 

WX's circuits have been nerfed to the point that circuit tinkering puts you BACK to where you would be PRIOR to their skill tree with gastro gain circuits. Gave hardy damage reduction? Well they dialed that back to nothingness. Processing circuit sanity modifiers? They worked both ways, positive and negative. I liked it because sanity works based on percentages, so making their sanity still actually function with larger pools is very important. Like I said in another post- the value of your sanity stat varies from person to person. People might prefer lower sanity pools so they can utilize less items to reach certain thresholds, some people prefer more sanity so those thresholds take longer to reach. It felt like a good balance between the two. 

WX's own kit cannot justify itself in any capacity. Electrification circuit got buffed to actually be useful and it has already been nerfed in their skill tree again. We have learned nothing. We are gaining nothing. We are backflipping backwards at breakneck speeds.

Seeing several interesting concepts for Gamma circuits getting axed (so far...) and the current gamma circuits doing NOTHING THEY DO NOTHING!!!! Was such a huge disappointment! Even before all the nerfs they threw into the basket WX was still boring, their perks are not impactful, their gameplay does not have enough variance from Wilson to stand on their own two little metal feet. I was hoping that since Gamma circuits appeared to actually alter how you engage with the world, that they'd make WX more fun, that I'd have something to do and go "hey I'm glad I can do that because I'm WX!" but I CAN'T I can SPIN! that's IT! It's not even faster than just chopping with my cursor! I'm so disappointed! They have everyone I know universally upset ! HOW!!?!? It's so dramatic on paper but I've been malding for long enough over Winona's skill tree, why is it designed like this! It has been hours and I've been sitting in a voice chat with 8 different people and we're STILL finding new ways of expressing how incredulous we are over this. 

Klei can clearly go a long way with the characters they have, especially when they're more unique, you saw what Wurt got, Wurt got skills that utilize her character and her background and her environment in a unique way that benefits her. WX is a robot, there is something there, you can do any variety of things with a robot in a world of magic, they are untapped! But we keep tripping up over any time WX gets something of any potential significance and backpedaling before anyone even understands the full ramifications of it! 

Everyone knows Walter's skill tree was the best possible one they made, Klei bit the bullet of making the slingshot an actually viable weapon and it made Walter wonderful- the slingshot alone did not do everything for him- he has other fantastic perks, but the slingshot was a massive step up. They need to bite the bullet with WX and just make them good. Worry about if the character is actually fun, and work out the issue of balance later. 

After several months of playing WX with some stats, and Klei decides something is too strong? Sure. Rework it. We need to move past this period of time where people are getting too stoked over the new shiny thing with new shiny stats to get a larger scale of the impact that these stats are going to have, if these sentiments are held after people have gotten past the honeymoon period then sure whatever. Get me out of Buddhist hell I've paid back my karma.

 

NUTRI BRICK IS ON PAR WITH EATING A CARROT

Edited April 3 by viblym

[Ruperstiltskin]

Wow you gonna compare Wurt and Wx and not talk about the fishes that wurt can hold that lets her ignore the seasons?????? Like that whole gimmic wx has to sacrifice half their circuits to achieve when Wurt can just hold them fishes for 1 inv slot and change em in a tinbin every 3 days or so?
Aside from that yeah, people have been overreacting all beta and even when someone disagrees they discredit them its kinda sad.
We just want to have fun playing wx but we getting a nothing burger basicly so sad.

Edit: grammar

Edited April 3 by Ruperstiltskin

[viblym]

1 minute ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

Wow you gonna compare Wurt and Wx and not talk about the fishes that wurt can hold that lets her ignore the seasons?????? Like that whole gimmic wx has to sacrifice half their circuits to achieve when Wurt can just hold them fishes for 1 inv slot and change em in a tinbin every 3 days or so?
Aside from that yeah, people have been overreacting all beta and even when someone disagrees they discredit them its kinda sad.
We just want to have fun playing wx but we getting a nothing burger basicly so sad.

You're right that's MY bad . I got so angry I tunnel visioned. 

[probably quinn]

At least WX has to actually worry about Spring. Even if it's just a little bit.

[Radicaljoe]

I'm so sad, because I figured that spending all this attention on 1 tree would mean it would be amazing and get so much feedback implemented almost as fast as it was being written. But like, none of it has. Almost no one is having fun, and klei decided to work on shaving off WX's already limited joy instead of addressing problems. I was looking forward to a fun WX that was more than just "stat% changes the character"

[Tarnishedmax]

i dont know in what world these Devs are living in where Wx was ever this powerful, like 2016 was 10 YEARS AGO. They have been known to be as one of the most boring and genuinely nothing character since the rework, the amount of nerfs is so insane for a character that has been a nothing burger for YEARS, compare them to literally anyone but Wes or Wilson and its genuinely pathetic.

Edited April 3 by Tarnishedmax

[Evelo]

I think wurt needs to be nerfed. Not buff WX. Just my opinion.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, viblym said:

As per USUAL WX is CANONICALLY NONBINARY and you WILL use they/them to refer to them in my thread. 

WX's entire gimmick is their circuits, you have to slot specific circuits to get specific buffs. You know another character that gets stat buffs? Wurt! So let's compare Wurt as a character to WX really quickly. This is not meant as a huge jab at Wurt out of any particular vendetta I have for her as a character, even though I think her design is very hypocritical compared to various other balancing choices Klei has made. Which is why I'm bringing her up. Because it's inconsistent what Klei considers balanced. It has been 10 years since WX was "meta", back when the character differences were as shallow as a kiddy pool. Large stats does not make a character "overpowered". They are not going to hardcarry you through the game by having 400 hp (sorry, 440. it's not even a clean number). There is such a strange mentality over WX being some uberpowered god from the days where ruins rushing was endgame and the ultimate show of pro gamer strats. The actual dark ages of DST have passed and WX is slacking behind as an incredibly boring character who has fallen so far behind. I want to love WX with all of my heart because I do like their character but their gameplay is bringing nothing to the table. When it came to the question of asking a literal dedicated server of people who love WX, only one of them said that they thought WX was actually fun. They are my friend, I love them with all of my heart, and I pity them. Typically for characters like that you'd have swathes of people bent on defending the character no matter what and insisting that they are good. No, they are bad.

Seeing how Klei has approached Wolfgang, and now WX, I have no hope at all for Wickerbottom, who was considered one of the "meta" characters back in the day. The reputation that these characters had before the entire cast had seen reworks still clearly occupies the mindset of many people in the community, including the developers, even though a great deal of these people haven't even played the characters. In my current testing of the beta at most the circuits have been "oh this is mildly more convenient" and that is where it has ended. So seeing people ripping into the files to dig up whatever stat numbers WX can pool all of their circuit slots into, pointing at a large number and going "It's too op they need to nerf this look at how big this number is!" has disappointed me. To an extent yes you can gauge the strength of something by its numbers, sometimes you don't even need to open the game to know, and it's not like Klei can personally vet every single person to see if they've even tested the content, but it's still demoralizing. To know how impactful something actually is in gameplay when contrasted with how much people hype up the idea on paper. 

Despite being designed as a follower / society building character who relies on her followers, Wurt is packing a crazy amount of perks, compared to Webber (even pre skill tree), Wigfrid (as far as their restrictive diets go), and compared to pretty much everyone else. It's clear Klei had a lot of fun designing her so I'd like to compare what she has to WX since they both have some similarities in perks.

Basic stats. Each one of WX's stat circuits takes up 1-2 slots on a 6 (7 with perk) circuit board. at most you can get one Super of each circuit and then 1 mini of whichever you choose. So with all 3 your stats are 200 across the board. with 100/100/100 as their base stats.

Wurt with Merm King goes from 200/150/150 (Hunger Sanity Health) to 250/200/200. As a buff you get for just having Merm King, something that at least in my experience and from watching literally anyone else play Wurt, you will work towards as one of the first things you get setup, and will have for the rest of your playthrough provided you don't completely neglect feeding him kelp slop. 

Wurt also gets a 33% buff on any vegtable based foods she eats (because vegetables are so weak). And of course, Wurt needs that big hunger stat and bonus! Because of her dietary restriction. Ignore the fact that Wigfrid only has 125 hunger and has no such buff. 

WX gets sanity with the processing circuits, at 2 per minute for super processing. Wurt gets sanity by carrying a singular fish in her inventory at a rate of 3.3 with a fish you can shove in a tin fishin bin and trade out for any other fish (or in caves just carrying starsky) 

WX gets passive healing with the Beanbooster circuit (takes 3 slots so you can only use 2 other stat circuits) at a rate of 5 health per 30 seconds. Wurt with hydrous healing gets 1 health per 15 seconds, and 1 health per 10 seconds with hydrous healing 2. Dronemaster with Circuit tinkering 2 provides a 20 health shield for WX, that now regenerates 1 hp every 15 seconds. Wurt with Slippery hide gets a 30 hp shield with Slippery Hide 1, and a 50 hp shield with Slippery Hide 2. All you need to do is throw a water balloon to get that right back up. 

So now you might be thinking "well those are skill tree perks! You're missing out on the rest of her kit by taking those, it's not comparable to WX" and I want to tell you this: Wurt's skill tree perks stack with other Wurts in the server. Communal kelp dish is pointless when the king's starvation timer had already been buffed before her skill tree even came out, and you can just shovel kelp into his mouth. On top of that a good portion of Wurt players I see outright find it more favorable just to starve the king and feed a new merm than upkeep his hunger. Kings Quests? Industrious Merm and Hardheaded? All of those perks you only need one Wurt running to apply to every Wurt in the server. Even just excluding the king feeding perks you have more than enough insight to get everything else you could possibly want without missing out on anything. 

WX's circuits have been nerfed to the point that circuit tinkering puts you BACK to where you would be PRIOR to their skill tree with gastro gain circuits. Gave hardy damage reduction? Well they dialed that back to nothingness. Processing circuit sanity modifiers? They worked both ways, positive and negative. I liked it because sanity works based on percentages, so making their sanity still actually function with larger pools is very important. Like I said in another post- the value of your sanity stat varies from person to person. People might prefer lower sanity pools so they can utilize less items to reach certain thresholds, some people prefer more sanity so those thresholds take longer to reach. It felt like a good balance between the two. 

WX's own kit cannot justify itself in any capacity. Electrification circuit got buffed to actually be useful and it has already been nerfed in their skill tree again. We have learned nothing. We are gaining nothing. We are backflipping backwards at breakneck speeds.

Seeing several interesting concepts for Gamma circuits getting axed (so far...) and the current gamma circuits doing NOTHING THEY DO NOTHING!!!! Was such a huge disappointment! Even before all the nerfs they threw into the basket WX was still boring, their perks are not impactful, their gameplay does not have enough variance from Wilson to stand on their own two little metal feet. I was hoping that since Gamma circuits appeared to actually alter how you engage with the world, that they'd make WX more fun, that I'd have something to do and go "hey I'm glad I can do that because I'm WX!" but I CAN'T I can SPIN! that's IT! It's not even faster than just chopping with my cursor! I'm so disappointed! They have everyone I know universally upset ! HOW!!?!? It's so dramatic on paper but I've been malding for long enough over Winona's skill tree, why is it designed like this! It has been hours and I've been sitting in a voice chat with 8 different people and we're STILL finding new ways of expressing how incredulous we are over this. 

Klei can clearly go a long way with the characters they have, especially when they're more unique, you saw what Wurt got, Wurt got skills that utilize her character and her background and her environment in a unique way that benefits her. WX is a robot, there is something there, you can do any variety of things with a robot in a world of magic, they are untapped! But we keep tripping up over any time WX gets something of any potential significance and backpedaling before anyone even understands the full ramifications of it! 

Everyone knows Walter's skill tree was the best possible one they made, Klei bit the bullet of making the slingshot an actually viable weapon and it made Walter wonderful- the slingshot alone did not do everything for him- he has other fantastic perks, but the slingshot was a massive step up. They need to bite the bullet with WX and just make them good. Worry about if the character is actually fun, and work out the issue of balance later. 

After several months of playing WX with some stats, and Klei decides something is too strong? Sure. Rework it. We need to move past this period of time where people are getting too stoked over the new shiny thing with new shiny stats to get a larger scale of the impact that these stats are going to have, if these sentiments are held after people have gotten past the honeymoon period then sure whatever. Get me out of Buddhist hell I've paid back my karma.

 

NUTRI BRICK IS ON PAR WITH EATING A CARROT

Wurt is a busted and broken character. I don’t think it’s fair to compare any character to her. She needs nerfs herself

[Koomin]

Comparing every character to whatever the most powerful character currently is and justifying tons of powercreep is how this whole situation started.  Specifically when Wanda came out and everyone agreed she was way more powerful than everyone else, and then any buff to anyone would be responded to with "but Wanda exists so it's ok".  Then skill trees like Willow's came out, so people kept asking for more power in each one because she got such a powerful one.  Then Wurt came out and just completely broke the game.  I really don't want to continuously try to make each character as strong as things that are poorly designed.  

If your argument is that WX is weaker than Wurt, the most broken character that many people avoid because it trivializes the game, I guess my response would be - that is good, I want to play characters that offer at least some challenge?

[Jakepeng99]

2 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Comparing every character to whatever the most powerful character currently is and justifying tons of powercreep is how this whole situation started.  Specifically when Wanda came out and everyone agreed she was way more powerful than everyone else, and then any buff to anyone would be responded to with "but Wanda exists so it's ok".  Then skill trees like Willow's came out, so people kept asking for more power in each one because she got such a powerful one.  Then Wurt came out and just completely broke the game.  I really don't want to continuously try to make each character as strong as things that are poorly designed.  

If your argument is that WX is weaker than Wurt, the most broken character that many people avoid because it trivializes the game, I guess my response would be - that is good, I want to play characters that offer at least some challenge?

Honestly it’s similar to asking for buffs to Wes because Wendy and Wolfgang outclass him at this point.

Wurt is reverse Wes. Easy mode.

[Creatorofswamps]

Such comparisons seem strange. You are comparing similar things but you forget that wx has other abilities for which people love it, such as night vision and Speed, glow, and if you look at wx as a whole, the picture is completely different

+ this can be interpreted in different ways, but all the "dls characters" are powerful in their own way

Edited April 3 by Creatorofswamps

[viblym]

1 hour ago, Koomin said:

Comparing every character to whatever the most powerful character currently is and justifying tons of powercreep is how this whole situation started.  Specifically when Wanda came out and everyone agreed she was way more powerful than everyone else, and then any buff to anyone would be responded to with "but Wanda exists so it's ok".  Then skill trees like Willow's came out, so people kept asking for more power in each one because she got such a powerful one.  Then Wurt came out and just completely broke the game.  I really don't want to continuously try to make each character as strong as things that are poorly designed.  

If your argument is that WX is weaker than Wurt, the most broken character that many people avoid because it trivializes the game, I guess my response would be - that is good, I want to play characters that offer at least some challenge?

You're misinterpreting why I brought up Wurt in the first place. Wurt is the "most powerful character" because of her obnoxious follower spam. Every character can be "powerful" if you increase followers by an order of magnitude until you win every scenario. I was specifically pointing out how she gets access to buffs similar to WX with far less commitment and has more character interactions on top of that. By no means am I just scapegoating the "strongest character" to scale WX around that. They bear similarities that are important to take into consideration here in a way that Klei and hopefully other people would understand. Please reread my post with this context in mind.

Edited April 3 by viblym

[tHe_silent_H]

As i said in the patch notes thread, they should make it so all of WX's circuits have diminishing returns if stacked(like the speed circuit) So individual circuits can feel powerful, while also encouraging build variety.

Edited April 4 by tHe_silent_H

[Soul7k]

3 hours ago, Koomin said:

Comparing every character to whatever the most powerful character currently is and justifying tons of powercreep is how this whole situation started.  Specifically when Wanda came out and everyone agreed she was way more powerful than everyone else, and then any buff to anyone would be responded to with "but Wanda exists so it's ok".  Then skill trees like Willow's came out, so people kept asking for more power in each one because she got such a powerful one.  Then Wurt came out and just completely broke the game.  I really don't want to continuously try to make each character as strong as things that are poorly designed.  

If your argument is that WX is weaker than Wurt, the most broken character that many people avoid because it trivializes the game, I guess my response would be - that is good, I want to play characters that offer at least some challenge?

there has to be a baseline comparison that is the whole point of balancing, just not Wurt because Wurt can critical mass and has infinite potential. Wurt was broken because of this before her skill tree.

3 hours ago, Creatorofswamps said:

Such comparisons seem strange. You are comparing similar things but you forget that wx has other abilities for which people love it, such as night vision and Speed, glow, and if you look at wx as a whole, the picture is completely different

+ this can be interpreted in different ways, but all the "dls characters" are powerful in their own way

except glow has been nerfed every patch since the start of beta and looking at the trajectory of nerfs speed is probably next because people like it

Edited April 3 by Soul7k

[Duckguy]

7 hours ago, viblym said:

As per USUAL WX is CANONICALLY NONBINARY and you WILL use they/them to refer to them in my thread. 

WX's entire gimmick is their circuits, you have to slot specific circuits to get specific buffs. You know another character that gets stat buffs? Wurt! So let's compare Wurt as a character to WX really quickly. This is not meant as a huge jab at Wurt out of any particular vendetta I have for her as a character, even though I think her design is very hypocritical compared to various other balancing choices Klei has made. Which is why I'm bringing her up. Because it's inconsistent what Klei considers balanced. It has been 10 years since WX was "meta", back when the character differences were as shallow as a kiddy pool. Large stats does not make a character "overpowered". They are not going to hardcarry you through the game by having 400 hp (sorry, 440. it's not even a clean number). There is such a strange mentality over WX being some uberpowered god from the days where ruins rushing was endgame and the ultimate show of pro gamer strats. The actual dark ages of DST have passed and WX is slacking behind as an incredibly boring character who has fallen so far behind. I want to love WX with all of my heart because I do like their character but their gameplay is bringing nothing to the table. When it came to the question of asking a literal dedicated server of people who love WX, only one of them said that they thought WX was actually fun. They are my friend, I love them with all of my heart, and I pity them. Typically for characters like that you'd have swathes of people bent on defending the character no matter what and insisting that they are good. No, they are bad.

Seeing how Klei has approached Wolfgang, and now WX, I have no hope at all for Wickerbottom, who was considered one of the "meta" characters back in the day. The reputation that these characters had before the entire cast had seen reworks still clearly occupies the mindset of many people in the community, including the developers, even though a great deal of these people haven't even played the characters. In my current testing of the beta at most the circuits have been "oh this is mildly more convenient" and that is where it has ended. So seeing people ripping into the files to dig up whatever stat numbers WX can pool all of their circuit slots into, pointing at a large number and going "It's too op they need to nerf this look at how big this number is!" has disappointed me. To an extent yes you can gauge the strength of something by its numbers, sometimes you don't even need to open the game to know, and it's not like Klei can personally vet every single person to see if they've even tested the content, but it's still demoralizing. To know how impactful something actually is in gameplay when contrasted with how much people hype up the idea on paper. 

Despite being designed as a follower / society building character who relies on her followers, Wurt is packing a crazy amount of perks, compared to Webber (even pre skill tree), Wigfrid (as far as their restrictive diets go), and compared to pretty much everyone else. It's clear Klei had a lot of fun designing her so I'd like to compare what she has to WX since they both have some similarities in perks.

Basic stats. Each one of WX's stat circuits takes up 1-2 slots on a 6 (7 with perk) circuit board. at most you can get one Super of each circuit and then 1 mini of whichever you choose. So with all 3 your stats are 200 across the board. with 100/100/100 as their base stats.

Wurt with Merm King goes from 200/150/150 (Hunger Sanity Health) to 250/200/200. As a buff you get for just having Merm King, something that at least in my experience and from watching literally anyone else play Wurt, you will work towards as one of the first things you get setup, and will have for the rest of your playthrough provided you don't completely neglect feeding him kelp slop. 

Wurt also gets a 33% buff on any vegtable based foods she eats (because vegetables are so weak). And of course, Wurt needs that big hunger stat and bonus! Because of her dietary restriction. Ignore the fact that Wigfrid only has 125 hunger and has no such buff. 

WX gets sanity with the processing circuits, at 2 per minute for super processing. Wurt gets sanity by carrying a singular fish in her inventory at a rate of 3.3 with a fish you can shove in a tin fishin bin and trade out for any other fish (or in caves just carrying starsky) 

WX gets passive healing with the Beanbooster circuit (takes 3 slots so you can only use 2 other stat circuits) at a rate of 5 health per 30 seconds. Wurt with hydrous healing gets 1 health per 15 seconds, and 1 health per 10 seconds with hydrous healing 2. Dronemaster with Circuit tinkering 2 provides a 20 health shield for WX, that now regenerates 1 hp every 15 seconds. Wurt with Slippery hide gets a 30 hp shield with Slippery Hide 1, and a 50 hp shield with Slippery Hide 2. All you need to do is throw a water balloon to get that right back up. 

So now you might be thinking "well those are skill tree perks! You're missing out on the rest of her kit by taking those, it's not comparable to WX" and I want to tell you this: Wurt's skill tree perks stack with other Wurts in the server. Communal kelp dish is pointless when the king's starvation timer had already been buffed before her skill tree even came out, and you can just shovel kelp into his mouth. On top of that a good portion of Wurt players I see outright find it more favorable just to starve the king and feed a new merm than upkeep his hunger. Kings Quests? Industrious Merm and Hardheaded? All of those perks you only need one Wurt running to apply to every Wurt in the server. Even just excluding the king feeding perks you have more than enough insight to get everything else you could possibly want without missing out on anything. 

WX's circuits have been nerfed to the point that circuit tinkering puts you BACK to where you would be PRIOR to their skill tree with gastro gain circuits. Gave hardy damage reduction? Well they dialed that back to nothingness. Processing circuit sanity modifiers? They worked both ways, positive and negative. I liked it because sanity works based on percentages, so making their sanity still actually function with larger pools is very important. Like I said in another post- the value of your sanity stat varies from person to person. People might prefer lower sanity pools so they can utilize less items to reach certain thresholds, some people prefer more sanity so those thresholds take longer to reach. It felt like a good balance between the two. 

WX's own kit cannot justify itself in any capacity. Electrification circuit got buffed to actually be useful and it has already been nerfed in their skill tree again. We have learned nothing. We are gaining nothing. We are backflipping backwards at breakneck speeds.

Seeing several interesting concepts for Gamma circuits getting axed (so far...) and the current gamma circuits doing NOTHING THEY DO NOTHING!!!! Was such a huge disappointment! Even before all the nerfs they threw into the basket WX was still boring, their perks are not impactful, their gameplay does not have enough variance from Wilson to stand on their own two little metal feet. I was hoping that since Gamma circuits appeared to actually alter how you engage with the world, that they'd make WX more fun, that I'd have something to do and go "hey I'm glad I can do that because I'm WX!" but I CAN'T I can SPIN! that's IT! It's not even faster than just chopping with my cursor! I'm so disappointed! They have everyone I know universally upset ! HOW!!?!? It's so dramatic on paper but I've been malding for long enough over Winona's skill tree, why is it designed like this! It has been hours and I've been sitting in a voice chat with 8 different people and we're STILL finding new ways of expressing how incredulous we are over this. 

Klei can clearly go a long way with the characters they have, especially when they're more unique, you saw what Wurt got, Wurt got skills that utilize her character and her background and her environment in a unique way that benefits her. WX is a robot, there is something there, you can do any variety of things with a robot in a world of magic, they are untapped! But we keep tripping up over any time WX gets something of any potential significance and backpedaling before anyone even understands the full ramifications of it! 

Everyone knows Walter's skill tree was the best possible one they made, Klei bit the bullet of making the slingshot an actually viable weapon and it made Walter wonderful- the slingshot alone did not do everything for him- he has other fantastic perks, but the slingshot was a massive step up. They need to bite the bullet with WX and just make them good. Worry about if the character is actually fun, and work out the issue of balance later. 

After several months of playing WX with some stats, and Klei decides something is too strong? Sure. Rework it. We need to move past this period of time where people are getting too stoked over the new shiny thing with new shiny stats to get a larger scale of the impact that these stats are going to have, if these sentiments are held after people have gotten past the honeymoon period then sure whatever. Get me out of Buddhist hell I've paid back my karma.

 

NUTRI BRICK IS ON PAR WITH EATING A CARROT

at the end of the day, i don't really care about balancing, this is a sandbox game not a competitive shotter, all i care is that a character is fun, and nefing a character into the ground isn't fun, i think part of the problem is that their skill tree made them really strong (killing a 100 hounds with just marble armor), so klei nerfed them, but they nerfed  too hard, now they are just in shambels.

Edited April 3 by Duckguy

[RayanLopes]

5 hours ago, Koomin said:

 

If your argument is that WX is weaker than Wurt, the most broken character that many people avoid because it trivializes the game, I guess my response would be - that is good, I want to play characters that offer at least some challenge?

I miss the first time I played with her and loved her playstyle, and I hadn't realized she was the easiest character in the game, and then all the challenges suddenly disappeared 😮‍💨🥲

[crushcircuit]

8 hours ago, tHe_silent_H said:

As i said in the patch notes thread, they should make it so all of WX's circuits have diminishing returns if stacked(like his speed circuit) So individual circuits can feel powerful, while also encouraging build variety.

WX-78's pronouns are they/them.

 

I also think that circuits should have diminishing returns. I have more to say on the topic of WX-78, as somebody who mained them for many years, so I will be back later.

[AveHortor]

9 hours ago, tHe_silent_H said:

As i said in the patch notes thread, they should make it so all of WX's circuits have diminishing returns if stacked(like his speed circuit) So individual circuits can feel powerful, while also encouraging build variety.

Even some of his niche ones, like the Chorusbox Circuit?

[HowlVoid]

13 hours ago, Koomin said:

Comparing every character to whatever the most powerful character currently is and justifying tons of powercreep is how this whole situation started.  Specifically when Wanda came out and everyone agreed she was way more powerful than everyone else, and then any buff to anyone would be responded to with "but Wanda exists so it's ok".  Then skill trees like Willow's came out, so people kept asking for more power in each one because she got such a powerful one.  Then Wurt came out and just completely broke the game.  I really don't want to continuously try to make each character as strong as things that are poorly designed.  

If your argument is that WX is weaker than Wurt, the most broken character that many people avoid because it trivializes the game, I guess my response would be - that is good, I want to play characters that offer at least some challenge?

Yup exactly, this feels like Wendy all over again. Its kinda exhausting, I dont even feel like interacting with threads cause everyone wants to misrepresent how powerful their character actually is and disguise it as "I just wanna have fun!" 

I like how op says this isnt meant as a jab and then later admits the post is fueled by anger. Hopefully klei can separte the feedback from bias so we dont just have the continuous trend of every charater one-upping each other until Maxwell eventually just deletes bosses to the shadow realm.

Edited April 3 by HowlVoid

[Mayson71]

Um, canonically nonbinary? Did I miss something?

[Evelo]

38 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Yup exactly, this feels like Wendy all over again. Its kinda exhausting, I dont even feel like interacting with threads cause everyone wants to misrepresent how powerful their character actually is and disguise it as "I just wanna have fun!" 

I fully believe in the saying quote thing, "Players are excellent at identifying issues, but bad at creating the solutions." Which with regard to OP's post, yeah they identified a major problem and it would behoove Klei to fix it I think.

[gaymime]

31 minutes ago, Mayson71 said:

Um, canonically nonbinary? Did I miss something?

yeah, they've been non-gendered for most of their existence to the point where the very game code itself clearly denotes them as such and all of the quotes in the game that include them use either no pronouns or nonbinary ones( they/them/mx). the issue is that people who dont care about wx don't care about using the right pronouns so you get a lot of people who just misgender them over and over in the forums

Edited April 3 by gaymime
grammatical clarification

[Cuernito.]

First i have to say that who cares about pronums, second wurt is not the same as wx-78, maybe you are the type of player that think wurt is the ultimate weapon but in reality she is not, she has more than one important downside and even if she has the potential to be really strong she still needs to waste time and resources to achieve something other characters like wolfgang can do in record time so no she is not OP, but to be honest with you i agree balance kills fun so i hope klei can do something about this because all this mess for a single character update is insane.

[viblym]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Yup exactly, this feels like Wendy all over again. Its kinda exhausting, I dont even feel like interacting with threads cause everyone wants to misrepresent how powerful their character actually is and disguise it as "I just wanna have fun!" 

I like how op says this isnt meant as a jab and then later admits the post is fueled by anger. Hopefully klei can separte the feedback from bias so we dont just have the continuous trend of every charater one-upping each other until Maxwell eventually just deletes bosses to the shadow realm.

I'd hope you could read the post and understand Why Wurt is relevant here considering several of WX's and Wurt's abilities cover the same ground, while Wx's entire character is these abilities, Wurt gets to do other things in addition to that. Being upset about an issue does not discredit my opinion in any capacity and comparing anything I've said to the absolute abhorrent behavior exhibited by some people during the Wendy skilltree beta is frankly insulting. Again, I mentioned Wurt because they specifically buff the exact same stats that Wx's circuits do, so pointing out how Klei makes exceptions is relevant to the conversation. I am not the type of person to think that Wx should be some overpowered stat tanking god, I just want them to be fun. I do not think circuits are fun, the fact that they aren't even good just adds insult to injury. WX has their circuit gimmick that isn't fun and they can't even be good to break even.

[PisiWasTaken]

32 minutes ago, gaymime said:

yeah, they've been non-gendered for most of their existence to the point where the very game code itself clearly denotes them as such and all of the quotes in the game that include them use either no pronouns or nonbinary ones( they/them/mx). the issue is that people who dont care about wx don't care about using the right pronouns so you get a lot of people who just misgender them over and over in the forums

before the wx rework, they were considered a guy, as someone who played since the days of solo don't starve, you just get used to thinking wx is a guy. nothing really changed in game.  Besides common public opinion, there's like 4 quotes on other characters.