New trees are much more profitable than Sproutrock

[Keknutui]

New trees grow in 5-7 minutes and can produce gems with a 6-9% chance. This is a very cheap way to get a large number of gems by clearing a new biome and planting new trees. But I am confused by the position of Sproutrock, which seem much more difficult and not more profitable to obtain. I suggest increasing the growth of new trees from 7 minutes to 7-15 days, making a cave alternative to Sproutrock.

[Kacpert25]

20 minutes ago, Keknutui said:

I suggest increasing the growth of new trees from 7 minutes to 7-15 days

No, 7-15 days is too long. I'd prefer 2-4 days and maybe reduce the chance of rarer gems.

[Turbanik]

It's only active during rifts. Why do we always have to nerf anything absurdly, 15 days is so bad. It's already lategame! People are annoyed that mimics are no longer free construction amulets, so just use these trees now instead

[Pumking7]

1 hour ago, Keknutui said:

I suggest increasing the growth of new trees from 7 minutes to 7-15 days

I'm assuming this is probably to help Devs test the Boulderboughs capabilities instead of having to skip a large amount of days for trees to grow. I do like that the best rewards are found within the Boulderbough's place of origin making visiting the caves and the new biome a bit more meaningful.

There are about 80 trees within each new biome, which don't seem to be renewable yet. With only 20 boulderboughs you can get about 5 of each ruin gem which compared to the difficulty of every other method seems like a bit too much.

Actually putting this into comparison for Sproutrocks to get this amount of gems you would need around 70 geode fruit costing 23 Sproutrock trees, which is around 80 treasure chests (if you do them in bursts of 10), which is 80 message in a bottles. This doesn't even include the large amount of time farming bottles, and sailing the ocean for treasure, along with growing all the trees (along with the fact that sproutrocks don't have a reliable gem growth rate). Defeating FW and opening cave rifts and just chopping trees doesn't appear to be a similar level of effort to reap the same rewards.

I think increasing the time required per Boulderbough and making the gem payout a bit more rare is standard and will probably come. I think it would be interesting if the Fumahole biome Boulderbough trees were to require an extra level of care to grow up large and provide gems at the current rate though. Perhaps using tree jam to nurture Boulderboughs growing in this biome during the rifts would be appropriate. It would require time and resources from both shards in order to provide good loot to the player, also would help get Tree jam give it another use besides basically only used for above-average trees. (Its way too expensive for a boat patch).

Edited September 6, 2025 by Pumking7

[Hungry French]

1 hour ago, Keknutui said:

Новые деревья вырастают за 5–7 минут и могут давать драгоценные камни с вероятностью 6–9 %. Это очень дешёвый способ получить большое количество драгоценных камней: нужно расчистить новый биом и посадить новые деревья. Но меня смущает расположение Спраутрока, который, похоже, гораздо сложнее и не выгоднее в плане добычи. Я предлагаю увеличить время роста новых деревьев с 7 минут до 7–15 дней, чтобы сделать пещеру альтернативой Спраутроку.

Eh... They want to weaken one too strong thing to the level of another strong thing... How many of you know that cave rocks emit red and blue gems?

And when did you intentionally mine them?

[Milordo]

Yup. Together with dust moths, now those trees exist too. Everything crumbling to themselves thanks to Klei unbalance. I really don't know how would you fix it, without killing it.

1 hour ago, Turbanik said:

It's only active during rifts. Why do we always have to nerf anything absurdly, 15 days is so bad. It's already lategame! People are annoyed that mimics are no longer free construction amulets, so just use these trees now instead

What are you talking about???? No rifts here.

27 minutes ago, Pumking7 said:

--snip--

Yup, agree and think the same about Klei's testing and how later they will change on release. All good, all good BUT don't agree on tree jam. If extra care would be required for these new trees (which again I agree and like a lot the idea) it should be something on the Caves (OR Ruins if they will change). Even a new item if Klei wants, but something from the Caves (OR Ruins) from a design standpoint. More incentives to stay on the Caves (OR Ruins if they will change)

[Turbanik]

10 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Yup. Together with dust moths, now those trees exist too. Everything crumbling to themselves thanks to Klei unbalance. I really don't know how would you fix it, without killing it.

What are you talking about???? No rifts here.

Yup, agree and think the same about Klei's testing and how later they will change on release. All good, all good BUT don't agree on tree jam. If extra care would be required for these new trees (which again I agree and like a lot the idea) it should be something on the Caves (OR Ruins if they will change). Even a new item if Klei wants, but something from the Caves (OR Ruins) from a design standpoint. More incentives to stay on the Caves (OR Ruins if they will change)

I'm talking about shadow rifts. Trees grow gems actively in a new biome only if shadow rift is open. If there's no rift, gems' chances are lower than 1%

[Maxil20]

2 hours ago, Keknutui said:

But I am confused by the position of Sproutrock, which seem much more difficult and not more profitable to obtain.

I disagree with this. Sproutrocks are about as simple as they can possibly get. Once you get the surprising seeds, you have a passive source of gems you literally just harvest with your hands, and they are not biome reliant so you can set them up wherever you desire. By comparison, the new tree can only beat sproutrocks if they specifically are placed in the new biome and the cave shadow rift is up, and harvesting them isn’t as straightforward.

That being said, I do agree they do kinda grow comically fast. I imagine they will probably make them take 7-8 days (this would put them inbetween normal trees and marble shrubs) to grow compared to literally under 1 day.

46 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Together with dust moths,

Dust moths suffer from the Doomed By the Narrative tm approach. Them being bounded by worldgen RNG sucks (retrofitted worlds in particular only have 2), and needing to go wayyyyyy out of your way to harvest them didn’t help. They were so bad that I’ve had more success treasure hunting for the 4-8 thulecite roll from sunken chests then I ever have trying to use the moths.

I feel they could have more potential if there was a way to scale how many dust moths you had so the limiting factor becomes the rate at which you can make ambrosia than going around the archives with the 2-5 moths to make thulecite, but I don’t know if that would be the ideal solution to just turn it into another mob you mass produce. At least they would make for cute decor, though…

 

[Popian]

You can also use both together to get more gems?

[Dingle]

3 hours ago, Keknutui said:

New trees grow in 5-7 minutes and can produce gems with a 6-9% chance. This is a very cheap way to get a large number of gems by clearing a new biome and planting new trees. But I am confused by the position of Sproutrock, which seem much more difficult and not more profitable to obtain. I suggest increasing the growth of new trees from 7 minutes to 7-15 days, making a cave alternative to Sproutrock.

Sproutrock itself doesn't seem worth bothering with to me. Unless you can get over a dozen of them, in a horrible system where you're going to get lots and lots of ocean chests with no sproutrock seeds.

I did this once and got sick of burning all my golden pickaxes, broken shells, and other garbage from ocean chests in a scaled furnace.

If they nerf these to the level of the unrewarding busywork choice that sproutrocks are, I just wouldn't ever use them.

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, Turbanik said:

I'm talking about shadow rifts. Trees grow gems actively in a new biome only if shadow rift is open. If there's no rift, gems' chances are lower than 1%

Really? Very interesting, but it's not less than 1%

57 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Just out of curiosity how many of you guys  have ever done a “caves only” run? Or choose to base almost permanently down inside a cave shard?

Me. Did it for Depths of Duplicity

39 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Dust moths suffer from the Doomed By the Narrative tm approach. Them being bounded by worldgen RNG sucks (retrofitted worlds in particular only have 2), and needing to go wayyyyyy out of your way to harvest them didn’t help. They were so bad that I’ve had more success treasure hunting for the 4-8 thulecite roll from sunken chests then I ever have trying to use the moths.

I feel they could have more potential if there was a way to scale how many dust moths you had so the limiting factor becomes the rate at which you can make ambrosia than going around the archives with the 2-5 moths to make thulecite, but I don’t know if that would be the ideal solution to just turn it into another mob you mass produce. At least they would make for cute decor, though…

Yup yup yup. I repeat, I even completely forgotten about them, like they never existed in the game. I don't like the player mass producing them and don't like either them reproducing. They're ancient animals, still clinging in their little poor houses. Another balance would be in order. We discussed here interestingly

[Turbanik]

2 hours ago, Milordo said:

Really? Very interesting, but it's not less than 1%

 

 

This is literally from the code

 

Vent Biome - no rifts active
(World Gen Layouts: CentipedeCaveTask, CentipedeCaveIslandTask)
rocks				57.12%
flint				30.46%
goldnugget			7.62%
redgem				1.90%
bluegem				1.90%
purplegem			0.76%
yellowgem			0.08%
orangegem			0.08%
greengem			0.08%
		


Vent Biome - Shadow Rifts Active
(World Gen Layouts: CentipedeCaveTask, CentipedeCaveIslandTask)
rocks				9.17%
flint				9.17%
goldnugget			36.70%
dreadstone			0.00%
redgem				9.17%
bluegem				9.17%
purplegem			7.34%
yellowgem			6.42%
orangegem			6.42%
greengem			6.42%

[Milordo]

5 minutes ago, Turbanik said:

This is literally from the code

 

Vent Biome - no rifts active
(World Gen Layouts: CentipedeCaveTask, CentipedeCaveIslandTask)
rocks				57.12%
flint				30.46%
goldnugget			7.62%
redgem				1.90%
bluegem				1.90%
purplegem			0.76%
yellowgem			0.08%
orangegem			0.08%
greengem			0.08%
		


Vent Biome - Shadow Rifts Active
(World Gen Layouts: CentipedeCaveTask, CentipedeCaveIslandTask)
rocks				9.17%
flint				9.17%
goldnugget			36.70%
dreadstone			0.00%
redgem				9.17%
bluegem				9.17%
purplegem			7.34%
yellowgem			6.42%
orangegem			6.42%
greengem			6.42%

Yes, still cool information about the Rift one, but it's wrong. You're picking one biome. Instant-noodles showes various biomes, for example Ruins biomes have more than 1% for gems.

[Radicaljoe]

12 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Yes, still cool information about the Rift one, but it's wrong. You're picking one biome. Instant-noodles showes various biomes, for example Ruins biomes have more than 1% for gems.

this is correct but that higher than 1% is only for red blue and purple. ya know. gems that are already pretty abundant especially in these respective biomes? yellow, orange, and green are still very low%.

And it's not even an astronomical chance either, it's  like 4% for reds and blues and 3% for purple.

[Milordo]

14 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

this is correct but that higher than 1% is only for red blue and purple. ya know. gems that are already pretty abundant especially in these respective biomes? yellow, orange, and green are still very low%.

And it's not even an astronomical chance either, it's  like 4% for reds and blues and 3% for purple.

Red, blue and purple are still gems. Very strong gems. I will not skip another gem resource just because Dragonfly, earthquakes, hounds, sunken treasures exist. The more, the better. Blue, red and purple have also a lottttt of applications. Only green ones have some usage for duping but that's it. Orange, yellow and greens tend to stockpile.

Edited September 6, 2025 by Milordo

[IAmAFurrz]

20 hours ago, Turbanik said:

It's only active during rifts. Why do we always have to nerf anything absurdly, 15 days is so bad. It's already lategame! People are annoyed that mimics are no longer free construction amulets, so just use these trees now instead

late game? the boulderdough is available from the start tho

[Edible Coal]

5 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

late game? the boulderdough is available from the start tho

who would bother living in ruins just because of these?

[Podrii]

80 seeds, mined in lichen biome with no rifts.... dont tell me this loot isnt OP  @Turbanik

[Milordo]

15 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

who would bother living in ruins just because of these?

Wait you don't do two bases, one for caves, one for ruins? I do ever run.

With things to do underground, these trees will make the residence even more appealing.

Edited September 7, 2025 by Milordo

[Dingle]

26 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

late game? the boulderdough is available from the start tho

Rifts increase the gem chances.

[WendyHater9000]

21 hours ago, Turbanik said:

It's only active during rifts. Why do we always have to nerf anything absurdly, 15 days is so bad. It's already lategame! People are annoyed that mimics are no longer free construction amulets, so just use these trees now instead

Isn’t that biome generated from the beginning of the game? 
Or are devs planning to make it only generate in the late game in the future?

[Dingle]

31 minutes ago, kevindaze said:

Isn’t that biome generated from the beginning of the game? 
Or are devs planning to make it only generate in the late game in the future?

Rifts increase the gem chances for the biome. By a great extent. That's where the "late game" comes in.

Posting it again on the off chance anyone reads it:

 

[IAmAFurrz]

1 hour ago, Edible Coal said:

who would bother living in ruins just because of these?

? i dont understand what you mean

these arent located in the ruins, its in its own biome available from the start

[Pumking7]

20 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Sproutrocks are about as simple as they can possibly get. Once you get the surprising seeds, you have a passive source of gems you literally just harvest with your hands, and they are not biome reliant so you can set them up wherever you desire.

I mean its only "once you get the surprising seeds" to get the surprising seeds it requires (usually) at minimum killing Crab King and waiting 160 days to even begin farming them. The process to collect the seeds after reaching these prerequisites isn't easy either as it requires bottle collecting which is gated by time, bootleg collecting and ocean sailing all are time consuming. Only the can you get a super consistent source of gems, which also grow irregularly.

20 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

By comparison, the new tree can only beat sproutrocks if they specifically are placed in the new biome and the cave shadow rift is up

The trees most bountiful biome is the biome they are originally found in. If you have shadow rifts, the only prerequisite, and are willing to sacrifice resources to chop trees then you can easily start farming gems. Just chop the trees and replant them a few steps away to yield the maximum profits when shadow rifts are up, if the time increases for the trees then plant it at the beginning of the rift. The trees chopping probably can be somewhat automated even with features like catapults, merms, and terramites to name a few. For this easy process the trees are much more rewarding too. Both Sproutrock and Boulderbough have similar rates for gems but Boulderbough currently rolls those chances 2 more times than a sproutrock tree can per harvest. So there is no denying for a bit more travel and willingness to chop trees, compared the endless gauntlet of ocean treasure hunting boulderboughs are more efficient.

20 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I feel they could have more potential if there was a way to scale how many dust moths you had so the limiting factor becomes the rate at which you can make ambrosia than going around the archives with the 2-5 moths to make thulecite, but I don’t know if that would be the ideal solution to just turn it into another mob you mass produce. At least they would make for cute decor, though…

Would be cute if you were "forced" to make them into cute decor to remove the massive farm looking aspect. Since dust moths like to dust and clean make it so you have to place X amount of a certain type of decor around a player created dust moth den to make them interested in eating ambrosia. Would be a fun way to avoid the "40 pigman houses next to one another" look of a lot of farms.

[IAmAFurrz]

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

Rifts increase the gem chances.

thanks for informing me. finally i understand why i wasnt getting the insane numbers my friend was getting (not to mention he was testing day 1, before klei shadow dropped an update that also added a beta report scroll at the end of the archive maze).

 

14 minutes ago, Pumking7 said:

I mean its only "once you get the surprising seeds" to get the surprising seeds it requires (usually) at minimum killing Crab King and waiting 160 days to even begin farming them. The process to collect the seeds after reaching these prerequisites isn't easy either as it requires bottle collecting which is gated by time, bootleg collecting and ocean sailing all are time consuming.

i feel like treasure hunting isnt that time consuming if you pay attention for bottles (the day 150 thing is absolutely awful ofc but nevertheless) and by the time you defeat CK you dont need to worry bout sailing cuz the bumpers are unbreakable if you just fixed it with a rock every 20 bumps, and sails are a 1 time investment for worry-free sailing. boot collecting isnt required either.

the time for the seeds however is very frustrating and long tho lol.