Value of Skins + Ressurection

[Kaioh]

5 minutes ago, Maxposting said:

Correct, but that was happening way before Klei started resurrecting the skins since scalpers have been reselling the merchandise already.

I'm not sure how it's connected to the skin collectors though? To me this seems like yet another reason why the skins should have been sold separately and at best, bundled redeem codes with the merchandise as "the bonus gift", which was Klei's intention in the first place with those.

But now, Klei is not there to rein in prices by providing a cheaper alternative, which means prices will keep expanding without a limit, and since Klei has angered skin collectors by making merch skins chump change, they have the perfect motivation to seek revenge. Klei should've never made unique skins just tied to physical merch honestly, they should've stuck with random in-game skins like in the case of regular winter hats, or provided a cheaper alternative to unique skins in the shop immediately

[Maxposting]

17 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

since Klei has angered skin collectors by making merch skins chump change, they have the perfect motivation to seek revenge.

I completely agree with the rest, but this is the part where I'm confunded. The buyers who purchased the merchandise purely for the skins (or at least value the skins much greater than the physical merchandise) have had very little reason to not resell the merchandise since the beginning, just like the average speculative scalper.

I really doubt there is a large amount of people who have hatched an epic revenge plan at Klei where they'll overprice merchandise just because Klei decided to backtrack and make the skins purchasable.

17 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

Klei should've never made unique skins just tied to physical merch honestly

I agree, I hope Klei was just foolish at their part in the past, but unfortunately it's just manipulative and it does seem like they coerced people under (hopefully just now) false pretenses with the exclusivities.

Edited July 23, 2025 by Maxposting
fixed and expanded the last paragraph

[Kaioh]

5 minutes ago, Maxposting said:

The buyers who purchased the merchandise purely for the skins (or at least value the skins much greater than the physical merchandise) have had very little reason to not resell the merchandise since the beginning, just like the average speculative scalper.

I really doubt there is a large amount of people who have hatched an epic revenge plan at Klei where they'll overprice merchandise just because Klei decided to backtrack and make the skins purchasable.

The jury is still out on this one, only time will tell how far people angered by Klei will take this. My main point here is that merch enthusiasts are the biggest losers in all of this, as they have to deal with less official merch supplies and merch scalping when all they want is to enjoy merch for what it is

[RexySeven]

51 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

Klei has angered skin collectors by making merch skins chump change, they have the perfect motivation to seek revenge.

Skin collectors are entering their Joker phase. Klei is shivering in their timbers right now, their entire financial structure is at stake. 

[Kaioh]

2 minutes ago, RexySeven said:

Skin collectors are entering their Joker phase. Klei is shivering in their timbers right now, their entire financial structure is at stake. 

Money has a surprisingly strong sway on companies, believe it or not. Tencent already has purchased a majority stake at the company, which actually outraged a decent amount of people before, at this rate they might just fully acquire the company

[00petar00]

55 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

Money has a surprisingly strong sway on companies, believe it or not. Tencent already has purchased a majority stake at the company, which actually outraged a decent amount of people before, at this rate they might just fully acquire the company

What is funny is that you don't realize that you are part of a very small minority of players. I do agree that there are games that thrive on being predatory with microtransactions like skins or even p2w purchases but DST isn't one of them and the game has kept a good amount of players regularly. I don't believe that DST makes even a fraction of the amount of money from exclusive merch skins but mostly from skin bundles.

For developers it is not worth to trade their goodwill in satisfying collectors and scalpers when they can gain much more by making skins accessible to everyone which would result in more sales overall. At least this is how I see why klei has decided to change their stance on exclusive skins.

[SilverSpoon]

Yet another Skin Drama Thread has turned into this

Edited July 23, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[Kaioh]

57 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

What is funny is that you don't realize that you are part of a very small minority of players. I do agree that there are games that thrive on being predatory with microtransactions like skins or even p2w purchases but DST isn't one of them and the game has kept a good amount of players regularly. I don't believe that DST makes even a fraction of the amount of money from exclusive merch skins but mostly from skin bundles.

For developers it is not worth to trade their goodwill in satisfying collectors and scalpers when they can gain much more by making skins accessible to everyone which would result in more sales overall. At least this is how I see why klei has decided to change their stance on exclusive skins.

DST is actually soft p2w by featuring paid DLC characters, the fact they can be alternatively obtained by spools doesn't really negate the fact that this is a hurdle for non-paying users, as they have to make a time commitment to farm spools to unlock said characters, and as a result the use rate of paid DLC characters is rather low, but that's besides the point. DST actually utilizes predatory tactics to get people involved, like the FOMO tactic.

DST is a very niche game with a relatively small community of players. A very significant portion of this playerbase are people who just buy the base game (which might be discounted at the time, or they even receive it for free from a friend) and that's it. Collectors, on the other hand, spend upwards of $1k or maybe even $2k at this point on this game to own every single skin. DST's base price is like what, $15? This means one such collector potentially outspends over 100 people only buying the base game. I don't see how it's a good idea to antagonize such people, especially in a relatively small game overall

[Maxposting]

5 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

I don't see how it's a good idea to antagonize such people, especially in a relatively small game overall

Frankly, there shouldn't be exclusives or extra rarities people get locked out of. This would quite literally make collecting easier than having to fear potentially missing a skin and perhaps getting scammed.

I honestly don't like that people obsess over the skins or their value they previously overestimated to the point of wanting to keep that crappy exclusivity system that leads to those behaviours in the first place.

[Kaioh]

9 minutes ago, Maxposting said:

Frankly, there shouldn't be exclusives or extra rarities people get locked out of. This would quite literally make collecting easier than having to fear potentially missing a skin and perhaps getting scammed.

I honestly don't like that people obsess over the skins or their value they previously overestimated to the point of wanting to keep that crappy exclusivity system that leads to those behaviours in the first place.

But you can't just sweep the whole thing under the rug and expect the heavy spenders to just accept it like nothing had happened, that's just extremely reckless and dangerous. Klei's credibility and reputation are at stake here

[RexySeven]

19 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

This means one such collector potentially outspends over 100 people only buying the base game.

You severely underestimating how much collective spending outweights individual collectors in the long run.

26 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

DST is a very niche game with a relatively small community of players.

So small and niche it has 30-40k players daily.

[Kaioh]

5 minutes ago, RexySeven said:

You severely underestimating how much collective spending outweights individual collectors in the long run.

So small and niche it has 30-40k players daily.

Not really, this is as straightforward as it gets. Even if some of the more bold spenders combined together outspend massive collectors, the economical impact is still there. Klei is not that well off if they have to sell stakes at the company to Tencent.

30-40k is on the smaller side, it's not like DST is a worldwide hit with millions of players daily, thus having mountains of potential people to extract money from

[RexySeven]

9 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

Not really, this is as straightforward as it gets. Even if some of the more bold spenders combined together outspend massive collectors, the economical impact is still there. Klei is not that well off if they have to sell stakes at the company to Tencent.

I think you really don't realize that 30k players spend, on monthly basis, if not weekly, accumulatively more money than you had in 10 years; I'm not even talking about when the new updates or sales drop. 

16 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

30-40k is on the smaller side, it's not like DST is a worldwide hit with millions of players daily

Dude it's currently 10k away from Marvel Rivals in terms of concurrent players. You're trying to compare it to League of Legends or something?

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, Maxposting said:

Frankly, there shouldn't be exclusives or extra rarities people get locked out of. This would quite literally make collecting easier than having to fear potentially missing a skin and perhaps getting scammed.

Unfortunately, however unintentional,  Klei has de facto exploiting that fear to encourage people to buy merchandise with skin, and de facto fostering that scamming and scalping for years.

I agree that eliminating these sources is the right move, but Klei still bears responsibility for having let the situation persist.

1 hour ago, Maxposting said:

I honestly don't like that people obsess over the skins or their value they previously overestimated to the point of wanting to keep that crappy exclusivity system that leads to those behaviours in the first place.

At least Kaioh don't say "wanting to keep that," but making a constructive suggestion to compensate past purchasers. Personally, I don't agree with raising the price of reissue skins, but I think giving the OG Proof of Purchase skins a special effect (and giving them the regular version to switch between) is a great win-win idea for past and future purchasers.

On 7/21/2025 at 8:05 AM, Kaioh said:

What us, the people complaining, really want is either a price ramp up for the resurrected skins to satisfy the OG buyers while remaining fair to the others by keeping the prices below 100% MSRP, or a unique perk for the OG Proof of Purchase skins like a glowing effect in game or something.

 

Edited July 23, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[Kaioh]

14 minutes ago, RexySeven said:

I think you really don't realize that 30k players spend, on monthly basis, if not weekly, accumulatively more money than you had in 10 years; I'm not even talking about when the new updates or sales drop. 

Dude it's currently 10k away from Marvel Rivals in terms of concurrent players. You're trying to compare it to League of Legends or something?

This is assuming those 30k players are all regular spenders, which there is no guarantee they are. I am not denying that a couple of bolder spenders outspend me, all I'm saying is that a squad of heavy collectors are an absolutely huge asset to the company, especially when it seems like they are actually struggling quite a bit, which is why antagonizing heavy collectors is a bad idea.

No, all I'm saying is that DST with its modest player count is a game that can die quickly by making poor decisions. I've played games bigger than this that ended because of financial betrayal of their customers

Edited July 23, 2025 by Kaioh

[Michachu]

10 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

This is assuming those 30k players are all regular spenders, which there is no guarantee they are. I am not denying that a couple of bolder spenders outspend me, all I'm saying is that a squad of heavy collectors are an absolutely huge asset to the company, especially when it seems like they are actually struggling quite a bit, which is why antagonizing heavy collectors is a bad idea.

No, all I'm saying is that DST with its modest player count is a game that can die quickly by making poor decisions. I've played games bigger than this that ended because of financial betrayal of their customers

Does Klei really rely on heavy collectors that much?

[Kaioh]

5 minutes ago, Michachu said:

Does Klei really rely on heavy collectors that much?

They had sold majority stake at the company to Tencent even before this fiasco happened, I feel like any significant ripple counts

[RexySeven]

9 minutes ago, Kaioh said:

This is assuming those 30k players are all regular spenders, which there is no guarantee they are.

They don't even need to be regular, dude can just pop into the game, spend as little as 5 or 10 dollars once and if even 50 players do that on weekend it's already half of what you've spend in 10 years. 

[Kaioh]

3 minutes ago, RexySeven said:

They don't even need to be regular, dude can just pop into the game, spend as little as 5 or 10 dollars once and if even 50 players do that on weekend it's already half of what you've spend in 10 years. 

Well, yes, but that's just me as an individual. I alone have at least outspent over a hundred players that only bought the game combined. A small % of the bigger spenders together outspend the bigger % rest that spends little to nothing on the game, that's just how it is in games which has microtransactions of this nature, nothing unique to DST

[cybers2001]

9 hours ago, lowercase skye said:

So what I'm hearing is that if a skin's price is too low, then scalpers won't be able to scalp anymore, and poor people will be allowed to have something they like. And this is, uh, bad, apparently.

I’m not clear on the hypothetical scalper in this scenario. What’s a case of scalping in regards to DST?  
  
If you’re talking about buying out all the stock of DST merch to gouge prices, that has never happened afaik.

If you’re talking about just buying and flipping assets, then… that’s sort of unavoidable? Anything that has monetary value driven by demand and scarcity can be flipped. Removing the value of assets just to spite scalpers is a bit extreme.

Edited July 23, 2025 by cybers2001

[Bumber64]

3 more pages of the same old crap. At least we've got people revealing their true nature now.

[cybers2001]

10 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

3 more pages of the same old crap. At least we've got people revealing their true nature now.

That we're all bored and only actively participate in controversial topics?

[hhh2]

On 7/23/2025 at 2:42 PM, SilverSpoon said:

but I think giving the OG Proof of Purchase skins a special effect (and giving them the regular version to switch between) is a great win-win idea for past and future purchasers.

But the thing is that Klei's aim is to destroy exclusivity.  Creating a new type of exclusivity is taking no steps forward, so they wont do this.

This entire problem happened because Klei long ago let those exclusive merch skins be marketable, then recently have decided to undo it, but it hurts people who lavished the exclusivity.  One fact is that if you introduce scarcity value into a market, you can't take it out easily.  It's a permanent addition, cuz otherwise, this show happens!

I know the conclusion.  The collectors are going to lose.  I think there will be less sales for merchandise that Klei makes, because any would-be buyer and would-be collector will steer away.  Either that, or Klei wont create skins for the merchandise.  I wonder how many sales were spurred on by those skins.

On 7/23/2025 at 9:03 AM, Maxposting said:

"It's human nature bro" says video game forum user in favour of a system which nowadays benefits nobody but a few parasites and will lead to destruction of humanity altogether if not overthrown.

I'm not in favour of capitalism.  But capitalism is the only system that can be because of our greed.  If some people did not have a propensity to be greedy and want more than their fair share in life, I would say down with capitalism, but capitalism wouldn't have came about if that were the case.  You do not have to look hard for the examples of corruption in the history of the trials of communism.  There can only be capitalism.

Also, the destruction of humanity will be because of the exploitation of cheap energy of fossil fuels.  Humankind's energy expenditure has already killed it, but it wont show as dire situation until later this century.  Consumerism will exist under any economic system, the only difference being who gets to be many thousands times more wasteful than another.  Ironically, consumerism is what produced the magnificent machines that we use today.  We buy upgrades for our PCs and throw away the old parts and the energy that was needed to manufacture them.

 

On 7/23/2025 at 9:03 AM, Maxposting said:

How would it be against "human nature" (totally immutable and very eternal thing outside of the conditions people exist in) to have skins available to everyone under socialism?

Their point was that they think capitalism makes humans want rare and attractive things, and I objected.  I didn't claim that Klei are defying nature by freeing these sprites.  I think that you misunderstood me.  My point is explaining that forever and always people are going to like rare and attractive things and that scarcity value is not fake but can become part of an economy of goods.

Edited July 24, 2025 by hhh2

[Kaioh]

1 hour ago, hhh2 said:

I know the conclusion.  The collectors are going to lose.  I think there will be less sales for merchandise that Klei makes, because any would-be buyer and would-be collector will steer away.  Either that, or Klei wont create skins for the merchandise.  I wonder how many sales were spurred on by those skins.

Pink winter hats already seem to struggle extremely hard to sell and that's despite collector interest. I bought all of my merch last year, and most of my merch was manufactured in either 2023 or 2024, but pink winter hat was manufactured way back in 2020. I frankly don't even know or remember if that item was ever sold out in the store, but I feel like Klei must be lowkey vexed they have to keep this stuff around for so long without selling much of it at all

[lowercase skye]

2 hours ago, hhh2 said:

I'm not in favour of capitalism.  But capitalism is the only system that can be because of our greed.  If some people did not have a propensity to be greedy and want more than their fair share in life, I would say down with capitalism, but capitalism wouldn't have came about if that were the case.  You do not have to look hard for the examples of corruption in the history of the trials of communism.  There can only be capitalism.

you have fallen for propaganda