Can we please nerf late game items

[Well-met]

49 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

the thing is the rift hasn't really been updated to change the world yet.  The depths of duplicity kind of added something but caves are still barren. The surface has nothing really new other than bright shades and ocasional brightshade frog rains.

there is nothing thats just standard anymore.   i feell like the rifts should do more. like plants should mutate every hound becomes a horror hound.  brighteyed frogs are default.

There needs to be more things in the rifts as they are so barren.  most people play the early game often because its them exploring gaining and working. we kind of still need that for after rifts.  there needs to be incentive for people to explore again.

 

if this still hasn't happened in 6 years, its never gonna.

Edited May 6, 2025 by Well-met

[DVGMedia]

8 minutes ago, Well-met said:

if this still hasn't happened in 6 years, its never gonna.

no thats just called good business

If you release everything all at once then everyone gets their fill but if you keep a steady trickle that keeps people coming back then that is what gives money.

[Mike23Ua]

7 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

no thats just called good business

If you release everything all at once then everyone gets their fill but if you keep a steady trickle that keeps people coming back then that is what gives money.

I would argue that they’re actually killing their game and any popularity it may have once held based on my observations of how many people I used to play with vs how many still actually play the game (I’ll give you hint it’s less than 4) I think people just got very fed up with the whole line of “wait till we’re done, we’ve yet to reveal the whole picture.”

That was said what.. 5-6 years ago?? Omg will GTA 6 ACTUALLY come out before Klei ties up all of DSTs lose ends and releases the kind of updates they’ve constantly reassured fans to “wait till we reveal the whole picture.”?

[lowercase skye]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I would argue that they’re actually killing their game and any popularity it may have once held based on my observations of how many people I used to play with vs how many still actually play the game

Friends losing interest will never, ever be an indication of a game's overall popularity.

We hit our second-highest peak players a couple months ago, in fact, rivaled only by the peak in 2023 that I believe was a free weekend. And this is exclusively PC stats, that's only one of the many platforms DST is on!

[FillerText]

Ok, but how would that solve the issue of people becoming god anyway? People become godlike way before CC(maybe not Fuelweaver, but have the skills to become god). Just look at any Shipwrecked or Hamlet megabase, and tell me they are challenged by the game even though they lack rift gear.

11 hours ago, Balter said:

Nah, you aren’t getting it, you want this you just don’t know it. Late game is boring and it’s basically clockwork of killing bosses in their respawn order to entertain yourself. Besides the DST community mainly gets their stimulation by simply beating challenging scenarios. People didn’t like planer damage, my suggestion is way more tame than that whole starter pack. Besides just magic items there are plenty of creative ways to get around this.

And how was it not an issue ever before? Late game isn't even that boring if you're imaginative enough with your builds.

[_mylilsunshine_]

9 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

This guy's username is one letter off from "baiter" and pretty much every post they've made has been in line with that. I don't think this is something people should be taking seriously.

it pisses me off that the smug walter profile pic is associated with a rage-baiter and a troll because i really love that smug walter look and the artstyle. i wish i could just steal it and delete it off their profile

[Hungry French]

Generally. The armor, heal and protection system should be reviewed. Just like the items part.
Rift items are strong because they keep the quest chain behind them, and that's a good thing, even though speedruns breaks that balance.
But things like Ham Bat, on the contrary, are not balanced. Because it is very cheap, almost 2 times stronger than a spear. And it's not far behind Shadow Sword and Thulecite Bat in terms of efficiency.
Or Bee Queen. You literally get a huge amount of heal, a crown that cancels the loss of sanity, and an item that disables the rotting function of something for 1 rope.

At the very least, if you expect any correct changes in the direction of balance, because the main advantages are given by solo players, and this... Well, not the main audience of Klei.
It's easier to learn how to create balance-shifting mods

Notepad++ and GLOBAL.TUNING can solve a lot of balance issues. 
This is if you don't switch to real learning mods, which can take months from morning to night... Modding is hard, because DST doesn't have much guidance.
There is a way to create modified game files and replace the main files with them, but this can lead to errors depending on which game files Klei decided to change this time.

But nerf rift items are not a problem.

[cropo]

About Bee Queen, with the introduction of "raid" type bosses in ANR, Kleis decision to add bundling wrap was absolutely necessary. It allows players to more reasonably grind up consumables to fight the upcoming boss fights like Fuelweaver without having a downward sink draining your grinding progress that you have to constantly keep filling.

If bundling wrap didn't exist then preparing for boss fights would be a massive annoyance and would detract from the experience for a vast portion of the playerbase. This wasn't as important in Singleplayer because no boss had 10+ thousand HP with complicated movesets so you weren't expected to get stacks of green mushrooms in perfect timing to when you start the fight.

I would argue it needs to be taken a step even further, and we need the return of "fire packim" from singleplayer that fully restores the ingredients it cooks in its mouth.


There are also a lot of situational reasons to use a Dark Sword over a Ham Bat, the problem is we know how to deal with these situations so it's no longer a consideration. When I was new to Don't Starve I avoided the Ham Bat like a plague, why would I get a weapon that breaks by itself, and gets weaker and weaker the further it breaks? I primarily farmed tentacle spikes, because they were a straight upgrade to the spear with no downsides or time-limit on them. 

As for OP being a baiter, I don't think it matters as they have mostly fallen out of the conversation and the topics being discussed are relevant discussion.

[Edible Coal]

10 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

There needs to be more things in the rifts as they are so barren.  most people play the early game often because its them exploring gaining and working. we kind of still need that for after rifts.  there needs to be incentive for people to explore again.

 

fr ngl, rift should open some inaccessible location on the map for players to travel to

[Mr Giggio]

The problem ain't the equipment 

Is the fact the dangers doesn't keep up

And the game still getting towards the end so this current state might change in the future when they add harder mobs and mechanics, if they do

So it's more like "when the challenges in the game will reach the equipment?"

[00petar00]

5 hours ago, Mr Giggio said:

The problem ain't the equipment 

Is the fact the dangers doesn't keep up

And the game still getting towards the end so this current state might change in the future when they add harder mobs and mechanics, if they do

So it's more like "when the challenges in the game will reach the equipment?"

DST is a sandbox game at the end of the day. I don't know if you still play Maxwell but I watched some of your streams a while ago so the reason I bring this up is that you are playing one of or literally the strongest/easiest characters and expect the game difficulty to ramp up when it really shouldn't. If some players see it as too easy they can play Wes or some of the other weaker characters. There are already world settings that you can use to make the game much more difficult and self imposed limits or goals that you can set for yourself too.

Most players struggle and this will always be the case so I don't see why developers should make them quit by making the game more difficult.

[WilsonHiggs]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

DST is a sandbox game at the end of the day. I don't know if you still play Maxwell but I watched some of your streams a while ago so the reason I bring this up is that you are playing one of or literally the strongest/easiest characters and expect the game difficulty to ramp up when it really shouldn't. If some players see it as too easy they can play Wes or some of the other weaker characters. There are already world settings that you can use to make the game much more difficult and self imposed limits or goals that you can set for yourself too.

Most players struggle and this will always be the case so I don't see why developers should make them quit by making the game more difficult.

You talk like if the rest of the cast made surviving harder than Maxwell... Maxwell is op but doesn't make survival any easier than Wolfgang, wigfrid, woodie, wurt, Winona, willow, Walter, wx, Wendy, warly wortox...

Most players struggle while they are learning the game. A player who can beat, without exploits that makes the difficulty non existent, the bosses required to activate the rifts won't struggle to equip an umbrella, beat stationary weak plants or approach a optional encounter against mobs that are specially weak and can't fight back against the weapons you unlock by activating said mechanic

You are gonna need to try harder

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

DST is a sandbox game at the end of the day

Is also a survival despite your efforts of removing that of the equation 

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Most players struggle while they are learning the game. A player who can beat, without exploits that makes the difficulty non existent, the bosses required to activate the rifts won't struggle to equip an umbrella, beat stationary weak plants or approach a optional encounter against mobs that are specially weak and can't fight back against the weapons you unlock by activating said mechanic

Rifts make the game more difficult and add more survival mechanics and also it takes a while to activate them for most players that can do it, at that point you are playing end game and you aren't going to be struggling with survival anyway.

1 hour ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Is also a survival despite your efforts of removing that of the equation 

Survival is only an issue for new players, I can survive indefinitely without building any structures or replanting anything. What you fail to understand that survival experience isn't sustainable and DST wouldn't be fun If veteran players struggled for hundreds of game days and new players wouldn't be able to survive at all until they spend hundreds of hours playing the game.

Even the current difficulty is too high for new players for multiplayer that's why you see veterans clear ruins and kill bosses without interacting with them because there's no benefit to help new players and it is often just going to take a toll on your playtime having to revive and feed them at the very least If you don't go as far as teaching which would require getting them armor and healing food that they'll spend in excess.

Almost every single survival/sandbox game usually transitions to sandbox and becomes easier the more you play it or it is more of a sandbox from the start. If you disagree with this I'd really like to see you name as many as you can that stick to survival being as difficult from the get go and I'll name much more games in response to prove my point.

Edited May 7, 2025 by 00petar00

[WilsonHiggs]

43 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Rifts make the game more difficult and add more survival mechanics and also it takes a while to activate them for most players that can do it, at that point you are playing end game and you aren't going to be struggling with survival anyway.

How? They don't add anything that increase the difficulty but gives a lot of good loot

[Bumber64]

15 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

How? They don't add anything that increase the difficulty but gives a lot of good loot

You really think a brightshade is the same difficulty as a spider or hound? The ranged mob that shows up in your base? Even poison birchnut trees despawn, so you can just ignore them.

Edited May 7, 2025 by Bumber64

[JustAPineapple]

38 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

-snip-

Most players struggle while they are learning the game. A player who can beat, without exploits that makes the difficulty non existent, the bosses required to activate the rifts won't struggle to equip an umbrella, beat stationary weak plants or approach a optional encounter against mobs that are specially weak and can't fight back against the weapons you unlock by activating said mechanic

-snip-

 

After thinking about it, I do actually understand this angle.

I can definitely see how the rift content can be really disappointing for someone wanting it to be a hard mode, and for it to provide new and bigger challenges. Because I think your right and it doesn't offer anything more challenging then what it takes to activate them.

I still don't think the solution is nerfing things though, nor do I want a sandbox-y (post game, effectively) to go away as and many others enjoy it a great deal.

I don't think its from lack of trying on kleis part mind you, I think its just hard to balance?

And like ive talked about before, new challenges can't be challenging forever and they should have solutions you can strive to achieve, ways to "move past them" so to say.

But what I think what makes the rift challenges feel lackluster, is because they largely dont change how you approach anything, the solutions to them are very basic, the potential learning curve and struggle to adapt isn't really there?

You deal with new frog rain how you always deal with frog rain.

Hail was already the easiest weather condition to deal with in shipwrecked, and coming so late into a dst playthrough it is a non issue even before you get the Umbralla.

Acid rain is conceptually really cool, really all the cave stuff is far more interesting, but because its an out of the way place it's not something that gets to shine.

I love my darling mimics but being late game and bound to the caves means I have Never had a interaction with them and that's like sad I wish they could be more of a feature.

Acid rain is also made a non issue Very Fast by the Umbralla, which doesn't even need a possessed heart, like it feels more out of the way to make the temporary goo solution.

None of the harsher weather really gets a chance to be harsher, because harsher rain solved how you always solve rain is not harsher at all.

And I can definitely understand being disappointed.

I still think there should be end game luxury items and stable solutions that allow for that sandbox, but I would not mind them being more of a process to set up or obtain.

Hope this makes sense!

[WilsonHiggs]

24 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You really think a brightshade is the same difficulty as a spider or hound? The ranged mob that shows up in your base? Even poison birchnut trees despawn, so you can just ignore them.

You are right, hounds are harder because they chase you

[Bumber64]

8 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

You are right, hounds are harder because they chase you

Because walking into a herd of beefalo is hard.

[WilsonHiggs]

32 minutes ago, JustAPineapple said:

After thinking about it, I do actually understand this angle.

I can definitely see how the rift content can be really disappointing for someone wanting it to be a hard mode, and for it to provide new and bigger challenges. Because I think your right and it doesn't offer anything more challenging then what it takes to activate them.

I still don't think the solution is nerfing things though, nor do I want a sandbox-y (post game, effectively) to go away as and many others enjoy it a great deal.

I don't think its from lack of trying on kleis part mind you, I think its just hard to balance?

And like ive talked about before, new challenges can't be challenging forever and they should have solutions you can strive to achieve, ways to "move past them" so to say.

But what I think what makes the rift challenges feel lackluster, is because they largely dont change how you approach anything, the solutions to them are very basic, the potential learning curve and struggle to adapt isn't really there?

You deal with new frog rain how you always deal with frog rain.

Hail was already the easiest weather condition to deal with in shipwrecked, and coming so late into a dst playthrough it is a non issue even before you get the Umbralla.

Acid rain is conceptually really cool, really all the cave stuff is far more interesting, but because its an out of the way place it's not something that gets to shine.

I love my darling mimics but being late game and bound to the caves means I have Never had a interaction with them and that's like sad I wish they could be more of a feature.

Acid rain is also made a non issue Very Fast by the Umbralla, which doesn't even need a possessed heart, like it feels more out of the way to make the temporary goo solution.

None of the harsher weather really gets a chance to be harsher, because harsher rain solved how you always solve rain is not harsher at all.

And I can definitely understand being disappointed.

I still think there should be end game luxury items and stable solutions that allow for that sandbox, but I would not mind them being more of a process to set up or obtain.

Hope this makes sense!

Mostly the problem comes because most stuff added is very isolated (ink; rictus; BS; the fellas near the shadow rift...), niche (bats attacking players who gather nitre; frog rains; BS possessing farm crops which is cool but farming isn't a popular strat), they are easily countered (hail (easier than earthquakes since those can't be ignored with a umbrella...), acid rain)) or are simply just optional encounters.

If they added some of the dangers are possible encounters during regular gameplay they will add up and make the attempt of overwhelm the player like getting a dreadstone crop with the ink trio while doing other stuff. Instead we need to walk to a known fissure to encounter them and, obviously, when we do that we are prepare.

They could have added rictus as a new shadow monster that hunts the player when is insane during rift cycle. Instead, once again, we need to walk to a tiny area around a fissure to face them safely.

If we are fighting a boss in the surface and suddenly starts falling hail, we just deploy our umbrella shield and keep fighting. Instead of making us dodge the debris while fighting like happens in the caves but easier because there is no screen shake, we can use trees and giant trees to cover ourselves, etc which is more interesting than: equip and protected

The bat raids could also seek players with high ammounts of meat in their inventory instead of just appearing when the player decides to gather a material barely used during the acid rain. Can Klei create a situation more niche than this one?

BS are a cool concept but is rare to find a pack of 3. Killing 2 or 1 is simpler than killing a hound wave and is the only danger that the rift, after all this time, gave us

The masked mobs are, along with BS and the new shark shadow, are the only thing that I like from the survival elements added. They make us interact with mobs that normally we don't fight, they are cool and creepy and can be an obstacle while fighting other stuff (rare but can happens). They should keep developing them by adding more mobs like cave spiders, monkeys, etc. Also is a missed opportunity to create a cool punish for dying by making us fight a empowered version of ourselves to recover our items like in project zomboid

 

The players who experience these are the players who clear the ruins and kill AFW despite what people who want this game to be simply a easy, cozy, chill housing game. The game being survival and having building is fun because we can have adrenaline moments to just get furniture 

13 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Because walking into a herd of beefalo is hard.

And killing a weak root to hit a static and defenseless enemy is harder? Also, didn't you said that you never did the moonstone event? Another user creating noise without experiencing content 

Edited May 7, 2025 by WilsonHiggs

[Bumber64]

2 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

And killing a weak root to hit a static and defenseless enemy is harder? Also, didn't you said that you never did the moonstone event? Another user creating noise without experiencing content 

With a spear or hambat? Gets more complicated with more than 1 nearby.

Did you forget there's a rifts starting option?

[WilsonHiggs]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

With a spear or hambat? Gets more complicated with more than 1 nearby.

Did you forget there's a rifts starting option?

 fighting hounds without weapons and the screen turned off is harder. Check mate for your non sense

[Bumber64]

1 minute ago, WilsonHiggs said:

 fighting hounds without weapons and the screen turned off is harder. Check mate for your non sense

You also forgot that players can join a server whenever. Continue trolling as usual.

[Mr Giggio]

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

DST is a sandbox game at the end of the day. I don't know if you still play Maxwell but I watched some of your streams a while ago so the reason I bring this up is that you are playing one of or literally the strongest/easiest characters and expect the game difficulty to ramp up when it really shouldn't. If some players see it as too easy they can play Wes or some of the other weaker characters. There are already world settings that you can use to make the game much more difficult and self imposed limits or goals that you can set for yourself too.

Most players struggle and this will always be the case so I don't see why developers should make them quit by making the game more difficult.

Dude I can make any character be good, its not a character thing. Bringing Maxwell to this is pointless. Even did runs with other characters like Wicker to show that they can make an all bosses run day 91 like I do with Max. More and more characters do ace the game after the skill trees. Speedrunners do it in even less, Im not even in that category. 

Starters will NEVER, BY ANY MEANS go to late game anyway because in order to get there YOU ARE NOT A STARTER ANYMORE.. To open rifts u have a really specific route to follow up and achieve. A lot of skills and knowledge to improve.  If you starting a world with them on, its on you, not on the game. So... eh.

Edited May 7, 2025 by Mr Giggio

[WilsonHiggs]

19 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You also forgot that players can join a server whenever. Continue trolling as usual.

Even with an axe, BS are easier because you can flee. 

Not only that but they can only really affect you while farming crops meanwhile hounds come at you at a random moment no matter what are you doing

Edited May 7, 2025 by WilsonHiggs

[Lardee]

The problem isn't the endgame gear is too OP.

The problem is that the endgame challenges aren't.