New future planar late game bosses need to be insanely stronger.

[Swiyss]

I just witness a massacre, dreadful really. This merm cutie just had 30 over-buffed enchanted shadow merms (which I didn't see it before and didn't know they could do that) doing insane slash attacks on misery, while he's de-buffed by a pure brilliance crater from Walter. I was shooting blue flames at him as willow, and my precious Wigfrid and Wurt friends were very useful in just completely tanking his mushroom bombs for some reason. I also saw that Walter's Woby was randomly helping him destroy the trees as well?? I knew she could do that but I never thought of it being THAT useful since we were using glass axes and not weather pains. There was also a Wendy there trying to manage her shadow Abigail xD. Poor girl got so confused with inventory management that by the time she entered the fight toadstool was at 39 thousand hp.

I couldn't count how many seconds the fight took, but I know I used 3 lunar raisers and around 14% of my void reaper O.o.

If we're going to make future planar bosses, not only they have to have stacked attacks and spells for anti-multiplayer, but they might also need either more health or more planar defense.

Crazy enough! But I had soooooo much fun fighting him in a group. Unfortunately our Wortox was originally a webber, but he was lagging the server too much, and because Maxwell didn't get his skill tree yet, he went for Wortox.

The consequences of late-game bosses having too much health or planar though is them not being viable for solo unless you spend like 5 days fighting them depending on how much health they give them.

So like, the developers should either make bosses have low health, but some sort of planar resistance? Like if there's 2,3 or 4 instances of planar damage happening, then the boss gets some true planar damage reduction to make the fight last longer and MAYBE someone will take damage at the very least or die, but other than that current fights are a complete joke. And don't get me wrong, surely misery has no planar defense, but I don't believe that Armored Bearger would had any chance anyways.

[Guille6785]

that same number of players as wilsons with glass axes would've destroyed him regardless tbh, the bosses just aren't made to handle that many people while still providing a challenge

[Ridley]

I don't expect bosses to be high on their to-do list, but if we're talking about multiplayer/damage scaling for bosses, please no boss armor. By that I mean, don't do what the Binding of Isaac does where it gives bosses damage reduction if they are taking too much damage too fast.

[Well-met]

too hard alone, too easy grouped has always been an issue with DST.

32 minutes ago, Ridley said:

I don't expect bosses to be high on their to-do list, but if we're talking about multiplayer/damage scaling for bosses, please no boss armor. By that I mean, don't do what the Binding of Isaac does where it gives bosses damage reduction if they are taking too much damage too fast.

this already exists on gunpowder so it's probably not ruled out

[Mike23Ua]

From your post I count Wigfrid, Willow, Wurt, Wortox, Walter & Wendy.

First of all: in my entire time playing DST I have never ONCE seen a full server of people playing as different characters (there’s always people with double character picks) 

Secondly: your complaining about a fight being laughably short for you when you have at least 6 players involved in the fight & your using end game character perks.

And my final point (this one’s a real doozy) if just ONE of you would had choosen Wolfgang because he deals 2x Damage.. his entire Gimmick is to effectively reduce any fight he enters into down to HALF just by him existing…

If TWO of you pick Wolfgang then that fight is now HALF of HALF. And if there’s THREE Wolfgang’s then it becomes Overkill.

My point??? No amount of planar defense or insanely huge amounts of boss health will ever make the game challenging as long as 4+ players can gang up on the Boss, and you can reduce the bosses health down to half without even hitting the boss just by picking Wolfgang.

The only thing adding more health and planar to bosses WILL do is force players to play in groups with other people, Shoehorn them into selecting Wolfgang, and limit the amount of content they can enjoy without it being a long boring endurance skill challenge, when playing alone. 

[Ridley]

12 minutes ago, Well-met said:

this already exists on gunpowder so it's probably not ruled out

Which is sort of a mean thing to do. Nothing indicates bosses have explosive resistance, so an unaware player might spend +100 gunpowder in a second just to end up with a very peeved boss. None of it really matters though I guess, because gunpowder isn't much fun with or without explosive resistance.

 

 

[DegenerateFurry]

Nah, Klei's been moving away from overly high difficulty levels in boss design recently, and that's a good thing. They want more players to be able to enjoy their game's content. Besides, making everything into the festering pit of tar and sewage that is Ancient Fuelweaver wouldn't solve the fact that bosses in this game have no health scaling and are therefore easy to melt with enough players no matter how hard they are.

Difficulty options in world settings and health scaling are the way of the future and are the only solution to this balancing problem.

[Echsrick]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

this already exists on gunpowder so it's probably not ruled out

and wortox soul pierce because of course wortox of all character had to get nerfed

[Swiyss]

4 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

that same number of players as wilsons with glass axes would've destroyed him regardless tbh, the bosses just aren't made to handle that many people while still providing a challenge

Hmm, so then how many people are the bosses able to handle? 3 people? 2 people? A server can take 6 people, and if I'm forced to use a mod that makes enemies have even more hp to have an actual fight on the boss with the highest amount of health already, then there's probably something wrong with the balance of them game. And if I need to spend 3 to 4 days fighting him while alone on a regular 1x damage character like wilson with glass axes, then how am I suppose to have fun doing that? I'm not suggesting to make already existing bosses easier like @DegenerateFurry wants to do but still disagrees with me somehow, nor I'm asking for additional armor on already existing bosses. All I'm asking is for Klei to focus their NEW end-game PLANAR ENTITY bosses to have at the very least more ways to survive and counter players when they're on a group.

I do believe that Misery should get obliterated in this scenario, of course, we were all very prepared for the fight. I just used it as an example for future ones. And the only concern I really have for this is that he dies way too quickly without being able to put up a fight. It's unfair.

If a server with 6 of the strongest damage dealers in the game can kill the boss with the most amount of health in the game in less than 30 seconds, then maybe we should do something about this instead of trying to make Wendy skill tree underwhelming and super nerfed.

4 hours ago, Ridley said:

I don't expect bosses to be high on their to-do list, but if we're talking about multiplayer/damage scaling for bosses, please no boss armor. By that I mean, don't do what the Binding of Isaac does where it gives bosses damage reduction if they are taking too much damage too fast.

I don't see a reason why, although you haven't even given me reasons to not implement this as well. Why can't we have a real raid-boss in the very late game? And why can't it be doable alone and challenging together? Jesus christ you people just don't seem to understand.

3 hours ago, Well-met said:

too hard alone, too easy grouped has always been an issue with DST.

Yeah that's what I'm saying. 27 thousand health on bee queen right now is completely doable with skill trees alone, we can see each character now having their own way of dealing with her, except wilson somehow but he's still the regular character who shouldn't get AoE imo.

But for new bosses? Then I believe we gotta have them balanced for these skill trees, unless they wanna make it too easy. I believe fighting bee queen on 3 people is already too easy without skill trees, especially if one of us has AoE, so why not bump up the challenge for a newer bosses that would come way way later after the Celestial Champion and Ancient Fuelweaver are down?

Are we just gonna have those 2 end bosses as the hardest and most challenging ones? Hard mode is supposed to be HARD MODE so I don't see any problem with that, especially because of how overpowered a group of 3 with skill trees already is against basically any current boss. Wurt only need 10 merms for every single boss alone really, except misery toadstool which she then would need like 20-25. A group of 6 being able to do so much damage like this just literally forces us to use health adjust, which shouldn't be fair really.

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Difficulty options in world settings and health scaling are the way of the future and are the only solution to this balancing problem.

That's such a ridiculous statement to say man, really. How can you say that these are the ONLY way to fix this issue? I believe that being able to stun dragonfly is already such a welcoming mechanic, and this is one of the things that DO actually help you kill her if you are in a group of 2 people, and some characters can trigger that stun alone, honestly, most characters can. There's also the fact that fuelweaver and toadstool both have a lot of trees and unseen hands to deal with when playing alone, but almost not enough when playing with 6 people which is the maximum amount of people a server can take without mods. So is the golden balance 4 Wilsons? 2 Wolfgangs? 2.5 Wendys? 2.5 Wigfrids? Like what kinda of stupid measurement am I supposed to be using to actually feel like these fights are not either too easy or too long?

I just can't believe you're like, saying this honestly.

And the reason I would advocate for future bosses to be like that, is because of skill trees. I don't want fuelweaver to get his health reduced for solo because we can already kill him in 3 cycles and that's more than enough of a challenge while still being exciting to do alone. We can do him in 2 cycles with 2 medium-strong characters, but put 2 very strong characters against him and he dies the second he leaves his first shield.

If you play with the STRONGEST characters in the game right now, 6 players with their reasonable max power, fuelweaver goes down in 10 seconds. That should NOT be the case, that should NOT be the standard, that should NOT be expected, that should NOT be in the game. Not because it's unfair, but because it's unfun. It forces us to get weaker intentionally just to PLAY THE GAME, while players like YOU and some other people complain about how it is too hard without even trying to practice to see that it's actually not that bad.

What's wrong with fuelweaver just adding a new attack or new never-seen-before kinda rage stance if he's attacked too much? Why is the opposite in the game? Why is dragonfly STUNNED when there's too many people attacking her and not ENRAGED?? 

 

It just really does not make sense the hypocrisy here. It's barely a place do discuss.

[hyoton123]

Given how much people say wolfgang trivializes bosses, I think bosses are probably scaled for 1.25 people. One person who kind of knows what theyre doing, one person to hold F.

 

As far as boss scaling goes…Dunno.  Ideally I think hunger and equipment becomes that much more scarce instead of just ramping up HP. Or clogging the screen becomes more of a problem with more players. But also things probably SHOULD get easier with more people, albeit not to the ridiculous level they are now. 

 

Nightmare werepig comes to mind where random aggro can make the fight easier solo. I dont think i’d want every fight to be like that, though.

[DegenerateFurry]

3 hours ago, astareus said:

Blah blah blah I'm Astareus and I don't know what health scaling means but I'm still gonna act like you're the stupid one

Since you clearly don't know what health scaling is, let me explain it to you mathematically.

Let's use Klaus as an example. He currently has 10,000 HP for his first phase and 5,000 for his second. Under a health scaling system, that would be the 1-player number; if one player is present when Klaus is summoned, that is how much health he has. Each additional player in the shard will increase his health multiplier, assuming the boss is not actively in combat or on-screen (so, no, someone entering the caves when you're fighting AG won't give him a bunch of extra HP).

So, for instance, two players could make him have 1.5x HP, or 15,000 in his first phase and 7,500 in his second. Three could make it 3x. Four would make it 4.5x. You get the picture, just using that as a theoretical example number - the actual increase per player would likely vary from boss to boss and would require playtesting to determine. Give us an option to turn health scaling off in worldgen, too, for those people who like things the way they are now.

 

As for difficulty settings in the world config, we already have those for things like how much damage players take. Why not add difficulty modifiers for bosses that, like those, you can change when launching the world? Better yet, maybe add a whole new category to the worldgen settings just for bosses, where you can adjust their HP values, attack frequency, and/or damage numbers up or down depending on your preference, with each boss having its own set of sliders for those. That'd even give our sweatier players a new way to add challenge to the game, so hopefully they'd stop asking for everything to be harder even though it's hard enough for everyone else.

Difficulty settings would even address the Wolfgang question. Are you gonna be playing with three Wolfgangs? Just max the boss HP values. Now you can go fight a 600,000 HP version of Misery Toadstool if you want. Bam, problem solved, especially if there's also health scaling so it's already being adjusted up.

There is literally no flaw with these suggestions.

[Tranoze]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

First of all: in my entire time playing DST I have never ONCE seen a full server of people playing as different characters (there’s always people with double character picks) 

Maybe console servers has less players?

Also there a trend i notice, that right before and after character rework, skill trees, those char got pick more often, which happen quite a lot. If you can go back in time and play in period far from char rework, you will see multiple people play all different char more often. As they also dont want duplicate too much. There are also times when every one just pick one same char just for fun.

[Swiyss]

2 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

There is literally no flaw with these suggestions.

I did know what health scaling does and exactly how it works.

Now you still really think there are no flaws in this?

Because sometimes, someone will do 70% of the damage, while the other 3 are going to do the 30% rest.

And I've played and worked in development for mmo's for a long period of my life, and I know exactly how this would affect dst.

Not only I'm gonna have to be forced to do more damage, but also the health scaling will never be accurate enough to know how much actual damage that Wendy right there can do, or how much damage a Wolfgang will.

So to implement your very passionate idea that you keep bringing everywhere every single time, not only we would have to calculate if a character has a skill or not, but also if they're probably going to do that damage or not, to not hurt the fight and make it too hard by accident or too easy as well.

And it's rather not right for Klei to put in code assumptions on how you should play your character, don't you think? This would destroy pubs as well with the usual noobs and trolls.

It WILL result in people getting killed on fights that shouldn't be that hard, and will also result in people bragging about how they "carried" the fight and was forced to do extra damage that wouldn't exist otherwise.

[AliceShiki]

1 hour ago, astareus said:

Not only I'm gonna have to be forced to do more damage, but also the health scaling will never be accurate enough to know how much actual damage that Wendy right there can do, or how much damage a Wolfgang will.

It WILL result in people getting killed on fights that shouldn't be that hard, and will also result in people bragging about how they "carried" the fight and was forced to do extra damage that wouldn't exist otherwise.

... Why are you arguing as if this wasn't brought up as an optional setting that is turned off by default? o.0

Like, optional settings that are turned off by default are never going to make the game worse. It's not really an argument.

[layangan putus]

Too bad, players couldn't do multiboxing in DST for fun challenge like in WoW due to obviously no macro command to play with. There are also obstacles like all characters having physical space and all roles leading to damage dealer. Nevertheless, DST has few interesting boss mechanics for multiplayer scenario such as toad spore cloud (players want to bring the cloud far from the toad in multiplayer) or CC 3rd phase greater gestalt (it will last for 30 seconds until no players detected inside the radius) or any relevant boss mechanics not mentioned here which I think they should add more of these.

Anyway, I'd suggest that in multiplayer attempt there should be:

1. Temporary debuff mechanic given alternately every 20 or 30 seconds for 10 seconds duration to a randomly chosen player participating in the boss fight until the fight is over. This mechanic would inflict one of these debuff randomly, that includes but not limited to:

• Healing the boss for generous amount each time this particular player hits the boss;
• Dealing direct and serious AoE damage around the affected player to nearby other players after 3 seconds;
• More generic debuff or unique debuff given by specific boss.

2. Hidden bar with threshold that logically would get full faster when hit by many players, similar to DF stun mechanic but this benefits the boss instead of players. Once this threshold, which has 'depreciation' function and unique visual depends on the boss, is reached, then all players nearby the boss would get blown away enough to drop the currently held weapon (maybe no damage to health and armors, just a simple wake up animation and additional movement speed and damage output reduction to the affected for 10 seconds duration).

One of the mechanics above requires additional coding to allow all bosses to constantly detect player presence within certain radius or create whatever logic that works optimally - Dev can 'borrow' the code from CC 3rd phase greater gestalt for the first mechanic. Meanwhile, the second one can be adjusted to prevent soloist from ever activating it through simple basic hit+dodge (animation cancelling included), so they simply design a reasonable threshold (not sure if the total damage from hits should reach the threshold diminishingly or increasingly to spice things up). Also need to introduce the mechanics through the one and only scrapbook but surely no need to pay attention to the possibility of raid griefing activity. If the detection radius code only works during the first attack then all players except the aggressor would just hide to easily avoid the initial detection BUT if it's constant then a soloist, although it's rare, may get a little bit of extra challenge when another guest passes in the detection radius or somehow gets detected while watching the fight.

Still if you wanna have longer boss fight for multiplayer without considering the fun factor then just add adjustable boss health in vanilla setting or add planar protection to the boss itself making it damage sponge, which might affect solo player experience. At last, if they don't want to change the current boss mechanics then hopefully the next boss they'll add could give interesting and even unique experience in multiplayer attempt. I dare dev to make a raid boss which soloist wouldn't be able to deal with because we all know that all bosses must be defeated through solo attempt no matter what, right?

[qwp18]

10 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Nah, Klei's been moving away from overly high difficulty levels in boss design recently, and that's a good thing. They want more players to be able to enjoy their game's content.

Whether it's easier or harder, even as someone who is decently experienced, able to do all bosses and survive very consistently, I much much much more enjoy the recent-ish bosses! It's so much fun to have a more dynamic and mechanically difficult fight! It's awesome to see the different routes they take to mix up the gameplay loop of kiting, were-pig, scrap-pig, armored bearger and crystal deerclops are such a breath of fresh air after years and it is so much cooler. Armored bearger for me took a... Little more time to learn, as I couldn't very easily trail and error 4 times to find out the kiting pattern, and it felt decently punishing to mess up, but finally mastering the fight felt so so so much more rewarding! 

 

8 hours ago, astareus said:

I don't see a reason why, although you haven't even given me reasons to not implement this as well. Why can't we have a real raid-boss in the very late game? And why can't it be doable alone and challenging together? Jesus christ you people just don't seem to understand.

In Isaac it makes a lot of sense with how absolutely broken your build can get at those points, but i feel like it just wouldn't work in dst. It kinda sucks to have all your long prep and set up disregarded, and it's frustrating to be limited like that, if something like this is implemented to dst then there's no point in ever getting any better gear then the boss requires, it means the bosses will always take a near set amount of time. It's also very fun and silly to gather up a group of friends and see how fast you can melt the bosses with working your ass off for good gear, always a good time (:

[Edible Coal]

i dont think boss health scaling would work in any meaningful degree,

how would the game consider how much people is fighting it?

if it is base on how many player exist while boss fight starts, it would just encourage players to start the fight solo , then others join right after...

if is base on server player count, then it would just encourage player to log off before the fight starts, and someone start it solo and join again...

 

[WilsonHiggs]

2 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

i dont think boss health scaling would work in any meaningful degree,

how would the game consider how much people is fighting it?

if it is base on how many player exist while boss fight starts, it would just encourage players to start the fight solo , then others join right after...

if is base on server player count, then it would just encourage player to log off before the fight starts, and someone start it solo and join again...

 

It can be a setting so each hoster can chose how much hp bosses have. Maybe a group of 6 wants to kill bosses in 10 seconds while 2 players wants X6 hp because they are playing warly and Wanda or smth

[Larael]

Well we have a problem and just buffing de boss hp is not the solution cus that means just more resources.

Implement mechanics is kinda the way to go but is really hard. AFW has some mechanics (healer state, invulnerability, mind control) toadstool too with the trees buffing him and even Dragonfly with his enrage state and multiple larvae spawns.

One of the main problems is if the mechanic is hard and needs time to learn it and doesn't encourage a repeat kill cus it becomes tedious (AFW after the first kill is kinda meh just want to reset the ruins, Dragonflye on the other hand is doable but not that hard with the mechanics.

And then we have CK it doesn't encourage multiple kills after the first one and it's only for the CC quest line. So it's kinda hard making a new boss that has a mechanic and it be fun.

But there's something interesting the game knows how many players are in the game maybe this is a way to implement something based on the amount of players that are on the server, idk.

Thx for your attention :3

 

 

[Hollow soul 3]

Im all for higher difficulty post rift, but I would really like to see harder survival elements and day to day challenges too. 

[DegenerateFurry]

13 hours ago, astareus said:

I did know what health scaling does and exactly how it works.

Then why did your first reply to me talking about it not even address anything health scaling-related?

13 hours ago, astareus said:

Because sometimes, someone will do 70% of the damage, while the other 3 are going to do the 30% rest.

That is not any different with the current system and is impossible to compensate for in a game where players have varying skill levels and play characters that can do vastly more or less damage. It's a problem inherent to the fact that people are different and isn't really an argument.

13 hours ago, astareus said:

My dad works for Nintendo

Appeal to authority isn't gonna convince me, especially when you're just claiming experience in the industry with no evidence. Also, people who make games make horrid balance decisions sometimes. Like, even people who're good at making video games. For example, Valve has publicly stated that Sniper in TF2 was a bad fit and they regret making him as powerful at range as he is.

13 hours ago, astareus said:

Not only I'm gonna have to be forced to do more damage, but also the health scaling will never be accurate enough to know how much actual damage that Wendy right there can do, or how much damage a Wolfgang will.

So to implement your very passionate idea that you keep bringing everywhere every single time, not only we would have to calculate if a character has a skill or not, but also if they're probably going to do that damage or not, to not hurt the fight and make it too hard by accident or too easy as well.

And it's rather not right for Klei to put in code assumptions on how you should play your character, don't you think? This would destroy pubs as well with the usual noobs and trolls.

It WILL result in people getting killed on fights that shouldn't be that hard, and will also result in people bragging about how they "carried" the fight and was forced to do extra damage that wouldn't exist otherwise.

I don't care if people mistakenly brag and you shouldn't either. Or, better yet, don't play with people who're like that.

Also, you could just, y'know, not turn on these features designed to let you change the game's difficulty to suit your tastes? That's the beauty of a world settings option, it's optional. That's why there's no good argument against it, because if you don't like it, you can just not have it turned on.

[Swiyss]

11 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

... Why are you arguing as if this wasn't brought up as an optional setting that is turned off by default? o.0

Like, optional settings that are turned off by default are never going to make the game worse. It's not really an argument.

I wouldn't mind an option in the settings menu, just don't go making bosses hp higher on pubs or lower on solo. That's my opinion.

[Mike23Ua]

8 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

i dont think boss health scaling would work in any meaningful degree,

how would the game consider how much people is fighting it?

if it is base on how many player exist while boss fight starts, it would just encourage players to start the fight solo , then others join right after...

if is base on server player count, then it would just encourage player to log off before the fight starts, and someone start it solo and join again...

 

DST would not be the first game in the world to scale boss fights (or even just general gameplay content) based on how many players are either

A: Allowed to EVER join the world in Total (Shredders Revenge is a good example of this if you allow 6 total players to be allowed to join but are playing 1 player, it still bumps up the difficulty as if 6 people are playing, lower the player count to 4 or 2 prior to starting it up and the game gets even easier.. the difficulty scales not with how many players are IN the game but rather how many can JOIN it.)

B: The game could alternatively scale its boss and world content difficulty based on how many players are in the join or leave the game world at any given time, the hit looter shooter franchise Borderlands does this if a player joins.. “The creatures of Pandora grow Stronger” And if a player leaves “The creatures of Pandora have grow Weaker”

Or C: and C is going to be extremely important because this one is how most MMO’s handle scaling content, Option C: Deathwish (small nod to GTA V’s actual ending for anyone who caught that..) Option C doesn’t scale the games content based on how many total players can join a world like option A, nor does it scale content based on how many can join & leave like Option B, Option C…. Rather scales content based on how many players are in the actual area at that time.

So yes…. Option C would make Fighting Firefly harder for you if another random player ran by while you were in the fight. But since this is how games like Elder Scrolls Online and also (the now canceled and discontinued..) Defiance did this- It’s a pretty common choice, although.. it absolutely does suck when other players enter the area and proceed to do nothing to help, while option C sounds BAD… it’s probably a better choice than B… which scales content based not on how many players are near the Area, but on how many join or leave the game (Such as 7 Days to Die) So C is better than B, and A is probably just the easiest & also the laziest option.

I’ll end this post by stating that there is some content in DST that I will intentionally go out of my way to avoid interacting with… things such as bosses with enormous amounts of health that take ages to kill when playing alone, but honestly??? It only hurts the game to limit the players access to enjoying all the content that the game has to offer by not having adjustable difficulties for it.

I have beaten the RogueLite Trinity Fusion and it was a really fun game, I enjoyed it even more than DeadCells, but Trinity Fusion has a “Hardcore Mode” that only allows the player to be hit 5 times regardless of how much health they have and it’s Game Over, this Hardcore mode had its own gameplay changes that really shoke up the game in fun ways beyond the 5 hit limitation- Changes such as any of the games enemies being able to spawn anywhere even outside of their original levels, enemies growing stronger and harder to kill the longer you took to complete a Zone, which is exactly the opposite of the games other difficulty levels which encouraged taking as long as you like scouring every part of the map to collect better higher tier gear.

Im bringing this up, because as it turns out: I was not the only player who just could not play the game with a “you can only be hit 5 times” restriction but also really enjoyed the rule changes for randomized enemy encounters and enemies growing stronger the longer you lingered around.

This was brought to the Devs Attention and they eventually released a “choose your own difficulty” update that let you toggle on certain features while toggling off others (in this case the can only get hit 5x limit)

But Trinity Fusion would not be the ONLY game that does this, State of Decay 2 and even the above previously mentioned TMNT: Shredders Revenge, have these “Difficulty Sliders” that allows you to adjust the game to your preferred difficulty.

If you skipped to the bottom for a TL:DR- enjoying all of DSTs Content should not be locked behind a default difficulty.

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, astareus said:

I wouldn't mind an option in the settings menu, just don't go making bosses hp higher on pubs or lower on solo. That's my opinion.

That's pretty fair. I think things are fine for solo, and Klei pubs should keep the current settings.

I just think it could be an interesting optional setting that is off by default to increase boss HP based on the number of players. To let people playing with multiple friends have a bigger challenge with certain bosses if they so desire. Because too many players just melt most bosses in seconds.

[Radicaljoe]

I've never been a fan of "bosses with an hp number changed are suddenly more balanced" idea I'd much rather the boss change attacks depending on the number of players present. 

Like, I'm sure there's a way to count how many players have hit an enemy, they use such a thing for Maxwell's cage lifespan. Therefore use that to determine how many are fighting a creature, that way the 3 day Wes across the map isn't adding an extra 1,700 hp to deerclops while he's trying to kite a catcoon.

But back to changing attacks. I believe instead of changing stats on a boss to make it more challenging, add extra attacks to said boss past like 3 players attacking a boss. Like give regular bearger the turn back and slam attack. The idea could be expanded better, but that's the rough idea.