New future planar late game bosses need to be insanely stronger.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Radicaljoe said:

I've never been a fan of "bosses with an hp number changed are suddenly more balanced" idea I'd much rather the boss change attacks depending on the number of players present. 

Like, I'm sure there's a way to count how many players have hit an enemy, they use such a thing for Maxwell's cage lifespan. Therefore use that to determine how many are fighting a creature, that way the 3 day Wes across the map isn't adding an extra 1,700 hp to deerclops while he's trying to kite a catcoon.

But back to changing attacks. I believe instead of changing stats on a boss to make it more challenging, add extra attacks to said boss past like 3 players attacking a boss. Like give regular bearger the turn back and slam attack. The idea could be expanded better, but that's the rough idea.

that's literally what I want in the game.

[AliceShiki]

1 hour ago, Radicaljoe said:

I've never been a fan of "bosses with an hp number changed are suddenly more balanced" idea I'd much rather the boss change attacks depending on the number of players present. 

Like, I'm sure there's a way to count how many players have hit an enemy, they use such a thing for Maxwell's cage lifespan. Therefore use that to determine how many are fighting a creature, that way the 3 day Wes across the map isn't adding an extra 1,700 hp to deerclops while he's trying to kite a catcoon.

But back to changing attacks. I believe instead of changing stats on a boss to make it more challenging, add extra attacks to said boss past like 3 players attacking a boss. Like give regular bearger the turn back and slam attack. The idea could be expanded better, but that's the rough idea.

I don't disagree on principle, but the idea behind increasing HP based on the number of players is simply to stop some bosses from melting.

Like, there is a video of 6 Wolfgangs killing AFW in 10s or something... Sure, it's 6 Wolfgangs, but still, it's definitely the player number that is doing most of the work. 6 Wilsons wouldn't take that much longer.

So... The idea behind an optional setting that is off by default that increases boss HP based on the number of players would be to stop bosses from being melted, not so much to balance the bosses better for multiplayer.

It's basically a simple and easy "fix" to the "problem" of too many players killing a boss before it has a chance to do anything.

I agree that a more complex solution would be necessary if one wanted to make the bosses as hard in multiplayer as they are in solo, but HP changes are just to stop the boss from dying too quickly, not to make it a more interesting experience, so... Different axis of "balance", I guess.

But again, would only make sense as an optional toggle that is off by default. It would be bad as a core feature.

[Ridley]

12 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

ILike, I'm sure there's a way to count how many players have hit an enemy, they use such a thing for Maxwell's cage lifespan. Therefore use that to determine how many are fighting a creature, that way the 3 day Wes across the map isn't adding an extra 1,700 hp to deerclops while he's trying to kite a catcoon.

I would suggest it works like Dragonfly's stun threshold, which would allow uncoordinated teams to have a normal fight, but provide a challenge for stronger teams/solo setups.

[hyoton123]

19 hours ago, astareus said:

I wouldn't mind an option in the settings menu, just don't go making bosses hp higher on pubs or lower on solo. That's my opinion.

Thats the big thing, IMO. 

[WilsonHiggs]

14 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

I've never been a fan of "bosses with an hp number changed are suddenly more balanced" idea I'd much rather the boss change attacks depending on the number of players present. 

Like, I'm sure there's a way to count how many players have hit an enemy, they use such a thing for Maxwell's cage lifespan. Therefore use that to determine how many are fighting a creature, that way the 3 day Wes across the map isn't adding an extra 1,700 hp to deerclops while he's trying to kite a catcoon.

But back to changing attacks. I believe instead of changing stats on a boss to make it more challenging, add extra attacks to said boss past like 3 players attacking a boss. Like give regular bearger the turn back and slam attack. The idea could be expanded better, but that's the rough idea.

Maybe their atack rate and cool downs could change per player hitting

[Swiyss]

13 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I don't disagree on principle, but the idea behind increasing HP based on the number of players is simply to stop some bosses from melting.

Like, there is a video of 6 Wolfgangs killing AFW in 10s or something... Sure, it's 6 Wolfgangs, but still, it's definitely the player number that is doing most of the work. 6 Wilsons wouldn't take that much longer.

So... The idea behind an optional setting that is off by default that increases boss HP based on the number of players would be to stop bosses from being melted, not so much to balance the bosses better for multiplayer.

It's basically a simple and easy "fix" to the "problem" of too many players killing a boss before it has a chance to do anything.

I agree that a more complex solution would be necessary if one wanted to make the bosses as hard in multiplayer as they are in solo, but HP changes are just to stop the boss from dying too quickly, not to make it a more interesting experience, so... Different axis of "balance", I guess.

But again, would only make sense as an optional toggle that is off by default. It would be bad as a core feature.

Yeah. Imagine if FW (after taking 70%-90% of his hp in less than 5 seconds) would just throw everyone to the edge of the arena with magic, lock them in shadow chains that can't be teleported out of, and started chanting weird languages and now he's "enraged", making his health poll a bit bigger, have some different aoe attacks and have more fire rate.

This would show that he's not just a joke boss that can be made fun of, but the actual shadow king who can't take a mockery if you have a strong enough team.

It would also be very fun to see people trying to activate his harder form in solo. But I don't think gunpowders would work for this specific scenario, it shouldn't trigger a harder form.

[hhh2]

21 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

Like, I'm sure there's a way to count how many players have hit an enemy, they use such a thing for Maxwell's cage lifespan. Therefore use that to determine how many are fighting a creature, that way the 3 day Wes across the map isn't adding an extra 1,700 hp to deerclops while he's trying to kite a catcoon.

Yes.  The function should be quadratic in my opinion, so that there is still an incentive for parties to go after bosses and so the limited player space is accounted for (i.e. spatially 20 Wilsons can't all attack Deerclops because they body block one another from reaching deerclops to administer their attacks).  That there will be a limit to how quickly the boss can gain hp with extra players, something being inversely proportional to the square of the number of players divided by three or something.

I looked on the Don't Starve Together workshop and there isn't a mod that provides this simple and intuitive type of HP scaling.  A pity.

All bosses should have an AOE attack and some sort of shove because of the mobs of players that overpower bosses.  That would mean a lot of redesigning for Klei, but considering the state of DST, would benefit its new direction and branding as a mini MMO.

On 4/8/2025 at 6:41 AM, astareus said:

Not only I'm gonna have to be forced to do more damage, but also the health scaling will never be accurate enough to know how much actual damage that Wendy right there can do, or how much damage a Wolfgang will.

https://www.mathsisfun.com/calculus/differential-equations.html

[DegenerateFurry]

On 4/8/2025 at 6:41 PM, Radicaljoe said:

I've never been a fan of "bosses with an hp number changed are suddenly more balanced" idea I'd much rather the boss change attacks depending on the number of players present. 

Like, I'm sure there's a way to count how many players have hit an enemy, they use such a thing for Maxwell's cage lifespan. Therefore use that to determine how many are fighting a creature, that way the 3 day Wes across the map isn't adding an extra 1,700 hp to deerclops while he's trying to kite a catcoon.

But back to changing attacks. I believe instead of changing stats on a boss to make it more challenging, add extra attacks to said boss past like 3 players attacking a boss. Like give regular bearger the turn back and slam attack. The idea could be expanded better, but that's the rough idea.

The problem with only changing the attacks is that it's not gonna matter how you do that if three Wolfgangs kills the boss in 30 seconds of tanking regardless.

[Radicaljoe]

9 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The problem with only changing the attacks is that it's not gonna matter how you do that if three Wolfgangs kills the boss in 30 seconds of tanking regardless.

Yeah, it's a good idea to change both, but I'm saying only affecting health doesn't magically make a boss more balanced, you just deal with them longer than usual.

[Hungry French]

On 08.04.2025 at 22:55, Mike23Ua said:

DST не станет первой игрой в мире, которая будет масштабировать бои с боссами (или даже просто игровой процесс) в зависимости от количества игроков

О: Разрешено КОГДА-ЛИБО присоединиться ко всему миру (Shredders Revenge - хороший пример этого). если вы разрешаете присоединиться всего 6 игрокам, но играете с 1 игроком, сложность все равно возрастает, как если бы играли 6 человек, уменьшите количество игроков до 4 или 2 перед запуском, и игра станет еще проще.. сложность зависит не от того, сколько игроков участвует В игре, а скорее от того, сколько из них может ПРИСОЕДИНИТЬСЯ к ней.)

B: Игра может автоматически изменять сложность боссов и игрового контента в зависимости от того, сколько игроков присоединяется или покидает игровой мир в любой момент времени. В популярной серии шутеров от первого лица Borderlands это происходит, если игрок присоединяется. «Существа Пандоры становятся сильнее». А если игрок покидает игру, «существа Пандоры становятся слабее».

Или C: и C будет иметь огромное значение, потому что именно так большинство MMO-игр масштабируют контент. Вариант C: «Смертельное желание» (небольшой намёк на концовку GTA V для тех, кто её не видел). Вариант C не масштабирует игровой контент в зависимости от того, сколько игроков может присоединиться к миру, как в варианте A, и не масштабирует контент в зависимости от того, сколько игроков может присоединиться и покинуть игру, как в варианте B. Вариант C… скорее масштабирует контент в зависимости от того, сколько игроков находится в данной области в данный момент.

Так что да… Вариант C усложнит вам борьбу с Огненной Стрелой, если другой случайный игрок пробежит мимо, пока вы сражаетесь. Но поскольку в таких играх, как Elder Scrolls Online, а также (в ныне отменённой и прекратившей своё существование…) Defiance, это довольно распространённый выбор, хотя… это действительно отстой, когда другие игроки заходят в зону и ничего не делают, чтобы помочь, в то время как вариант C звучит ПЛОХО… Это, вероятно, лучший выбор, чем B… который масштабирует контент в зависимости не от того, сколько игроков находится рядом с локацией, а от того, сколько игроков присоединяется или покидает игру (например, 7 Days to Die). Таким образом, C лучше, чем B, а A, вероятно, просто самый простой и ленивый вариант.

Я закончу этот пост заявлением о том, что в DST есть контент, с которым я намеренно буду избегать взаимодействия… например, боссы с огромным запасом здоровья, на убийство которых в одиночку уходит целая вечность, но, честно говоря??? Это только вредит игре, ограничивая доступ игроков ко всему контенту, который предлагает игра, из-за отсутствия регулируемых уровней сложности.

Я победил в RogueLite Trinity Fusion, и это была действительно забавная игра, она понравилась мне даже больше, чем DeadCells, но в Trinity Fusion есть “Хардкорный режим”, который позволяет игроку получить удар только 5 раз, независимо от того, сколько у него здоровья, и игра окончена, в этом хардкорном режиме были свои собственные изменения в игровом процессе, которые действительно разнообразили игру помимо ограничения в 5 ударов - такие изменения, как то, что враги в любой из игр могут появляться где угодно, даже за пределами своих первоначальных уровней, враги становятся сильнее, и их труднее убить, чем больше времени у вас уходит на прохождение Зоны, что прямо противоположно в играх есть другие уровни сложности, которые поощряют сколько угодно долго прочесывать каждую часть карты, чтобы собрать лучшее снаряжение более высокого уровня.

Я говорю об этом, потому что, как оказалось, я был не единственным игроком, который просто не мог играть в игру с ограничением «вас могут ударить только 5 раз», но при этом ему очень понравились изменения в правилах, касающиеся случайных встреч с врагами и того, что враги становятся сильнее, чем дольше вы остаётесь на месте.

Это было доведено до сведения разработчиков, и в итоге они выпустили обновление «выберите свою сложность», которое позволяет включать одни функции и отключать другие (в данном случае можно превысить лимит только в 5 раз)

Но Trinity Fusion — не единственная игра, которая это делает. В State of Decay 2 и даже в вышеупомянутой TMNT: Shredders Revenge есть «ползунки сложности», которые позволяют настроить игру на желаемую сложность.

Если вы пропустили нижнюю часть статьи, чтобы ознакомиться с кратким содержанием, то имейте в виду, что контент DST не должен быть заблокирован на уровне сложности по умолчанию.

DST needs more than just a setup that makes hp bosses for one player. She needs a full-fledged single player, not "You have the opportunity to be in Multiplayer world alone"