Fuelweaver poll (again) (again v2) (v3)

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The way you've phrased the responses for the poll is more about how people feel after beating the boss than their opinion on the quality of the boss. These don't tell us if people like Fuelweaver's design. Even I feel relieved after I beat the broken skeleton and I'm easily his biggest hater - it's a simple fact that overcoming a painful and exceedingly difficult challenge feels good to some extent. Please stop trying to put so much personal flair on it that you make the results of your poll useless - take a look at how I did my Crab King poll (very simple and to-the-point response options that boil down to "I like the boss's design" or "I don't like the boss's design").

Like, even a few of the rather uncompromising Fuelweaver defender crowd would agree that it's kinda screwy that you target him over the unseen hands/wovens when he's invincible, but your poll's responses don't care about actually getting people's opinions on the design quality.

There is an option if you feel good beating it but dont like the fight.

[ApoIIo]

Fuelweaver is fun, the only issue with the fight is how things deaggro randomly when you teleport and this can really ruin the fight if you teleport while leading him away from woven shadows and he forgets about you, instead walking towards the woven to undo many rounds of progress.

Dragonfly is painfully boring/easy but the rewards are also terrible (except scaled furnace) so what do I know

[lowercase skye]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

-snip-

It bothered me a LOT whenever the Crab King rework happened, I think it was honestly a massive part of the reason it took me so long to warm up to the new fight. It's really really weird how he's suddenly got this whole army of crab minions despite not actually being the king of anything.

[FillerText]

1 hour ago, WilsonHiggs said:

100 HP are just 2 hits with regular damage characters... That is super low hp for a slow mob that come 1 or 2 at a time, rarely 3.

They already have a mechanic involving hitting them 3 times with an ice staff. Why would they simplify even more killing them?

Reduced by 100. Not set to 100. If they had 100 hp, people would actually start doing scienceless Dragonfly with grass suits, and axes of all things.

[Evelo]

I want survival in my survival game, not boss combats... :c

[Guille6785]

8 minutes ago, Evelo said:

I want survival in my survival game, not boss combats... :c

this boss has been in the game since 2017

[YouKnowWho142]

13 minutes ago, Evelo said:

I want survival in my survival game, not boss combats... :c

 there are more bosses in dst than there are in terraria, i think we are well past that point

[hyoton123]

28 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

 there are more bosses in dst than there are in terraria, i think we are well past that point

This REALLY puts things into perspective for me. I didnt know that.

[AliceShiki]

Fuelweaver: I think it should get a few QoL updates, like making it untargetable while invulnerable, Bone Cage range becoming visible and the like... Other than that, any other change should at most be a number tweak. More drastic changes should probably be accompanied by a way to undo the change, since this is a fight plenty of people do like.

Bee Queen and Crab King: No comment.

Dragonfly: Definitely my favorite fight in the game. I love how easy it is to cheese it if you just want the rewards, and I love how fun it is if you try actually fighting it. It's perfect. It could use a few tweaks here and there though, like... Larvae health is a biiit too high, to the point it was unrealistic to try killing all larvae with Wigfrid's Shield. Perhaps it could be sliiiightly lowered... But at the same time, the HP of the larvaes work really well for multiplayer, so I think it might not need any real tweaking, especially because stuff like Ice Staves can also take care of the larvaes.

Another thing that might be worth tweaking would be the 50/50 at the end of Larvae phase that makes it either go summon more Larvae or become Enrage if the Larvae died naturally... I like this 50/50 existing, because it forces you to actually kill the larvaes when you're fighting the Dragonfly (instead of cheesing), but at the same time, it can be really frustrating when the final 2 larvaes spawn from the same pool, because it becomes really hard to figure out which one is the last larvae and as such, the larvae you need to kill before the 30s are up in order to guarantee Enrage Mode (assuming the other larvaes are dying naturally before you kill the last one)... And like, sure, I get that people cheesing the boss might hate the 50/50's mere existence, but it's great for how it makes the Larvae Phase actually dynamic when you are fighting the Dfly, so I wouldn't want the 50/50 removed. All I wish is for the last 2 larvaes to never spawn from the same pool.

And that's all I can think of that would be worth tweaking tbh. The fight is really fun when you fight it, and really easy when you cheese it. I wish all bosses were like that. Fun to fight and easy to cheese feels like the perfect combination for a sandbox game.

[Dwight34]

1: Nope, but that won't surprise anyone.

2: I don't think the attacks themselves are an issue, heavy tweaks on the cooldowns and ways they work and some other things (like preventing nightmare creatures from spawning during the fight) would fix most issues with the fight

3: Bee Queen is a clear example of old and bad design. Her infinite minion spam makes her not enjoyable at all, and forces some kind of cheese, AoE from a skill tree, or wasting 3 panflutes. Definitely in need of some slight rework, at least a cooldown between her spawns so killing the bees is an option, and for her attacks to be easier to dodge as it's extremely tight timing right now.

4: Nope, but that's an issue with drowning. It's a one-hit KO that removes you from the fight with 0 ways in the game to prevent it, and you can get drowned through no fault of your own if you just get unlucky and your character slips, or the game doesn't register well that you're trying to hop onto the boat. The attacks itself are interesting, but the OHKO and the once again overabundance of minions brings it all down, he's just too much of a headache that I gunpowder him every time.

5: Yeah, pretty good rewards, challenging but rarely unfair, can be done very early if good or later with preparation if not. I'd agree with changes to the larvae so 1 hit from an ice staff kills them and stuff like that since they're way too overwhelming as of now and the vast majority of players use walls to disable them entirely.

[Szczuku]

8 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

 there are more bosses in dst than there are in terraria, i think we are well past that point

Shouldn't be that surprising considering that Klei pulls stuff like Frostjaw or Scrap Daywalker - raid bosses that exist only guard an item. Bootleg gateway could've been instead a world generation rework that puts the mainland in the corner and therefore actually fixes the issue with ocean travel. And the 'aerial view but worse, the item' could've been a craftable at the lunar altars cuz god knows they need more stuff to offer

[Swiyss]

3 hours ago, Dwight34 said:

like preventing nightmare creatures from spawning during the fight

I feel like nightmare creatures are part of the fight tho. I wouldn't want this fight to get any easier.

[WilsonHiggs]

1 hour ago, astareus said:

I feel like nightmare creatures are part of the fight tho. I wouldn't want this fight to get any easier.

Agree. Of all the non sense suggestions to nerf the fight, removing the nightmare creatures while fighting ancient fuelfuel weaver is top 1

[Dwight34]

2 hours ago, astareus said:

I feel like nightmare creatures are part of the fight tho. I wouldn't want this fight to get any easier.

It's a completely RNG addition that spawns the millisecond you put the nightmare amulet on and keeps following you for 15 seconds after removing the amulet and hits like a truck, and is guaranteed hits on you when you're bone-caged if you can't TP out. Making the nightmare creatures despawn immediately upon the player not wearing the amulet and their sanity being high enough would make it way more fair.

50 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Agree. Of all the non sense suggestions to nerf the fight, removing the nightmare creatures while fighting ancient fuelfuel weaver is top 1

Immediately, any and all proposals to make FW fairer are "nonsense", and mine are of course "top 1", never change FW defenders, never change. The cult must not weaken, all heretics must be cast out, how dare they not praise the lord and savior Adapt. How dare they worship the false god "game-design", their souls are corrupt.

Edit: And the eternal laugh emojis under any message that opposes the cult, which anyone with eyes can see for what it is, attempts at intimidation and ostracizing. "Look we are laughing at you, we are laughing, feel shame, stop speaking immediately and be ashamed, we laughed didn't you see, stop speaking!"

[Swiyss]

7 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

15 seconds after

that's only if you hit them. If you dodge them and ignore them it's 1 to 3 seconds...

[WilsonHiggs]

4 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

It's a completely RNG addition that spawns the millisecond you put the nightmare amulet on and keeps following you for 15 seconds after removing the amulet and hits like a truck, and is guaranteed hits on you when you're bone-caged if you can't TP out. Making the nightmare creatures despawn immediately upon the player not wearing the amulet and their sanity being high enough would make it way more fair.

Immediately, any and all proposals to make FW fairer are "nonsense", and mine are of course "top 1", never change FW defenders, never change. The cult must not weaken, all heretics must be cast out, how dare they not praise the lord and savior Adapt. How dare they worship the false god "game-design", their souls are corrupt.

Isn't my problem if you don't see why removing the shadow creatures from the fight against the strongest shadow creature that can even control them is a non sense. Actually, removing the sanity mechanic from ANY fight is a non sense but in this one... Managing the sanity is 1/3 of the fight, a fight from a game with the most basic controls and less exigent reactions of the entire survival category

[Dwight34]

4 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Isn't my problem if you don't see why removing the shadow creatures from the fight against the strongest shadow creature that can even control them is a non sense. Actually, removing the sanity mechanic from ANY fight is a non sense but in this one... Managing the sanity is 1/3 of the fight, a fight from a game with the most basic controls and less exigent reactions of the entire survival category

I meant despawning them as soon as the player removes the amulet if they have high enough sanity, but the result is basically the same as removing the creatures altogether. And you'd have to manage the sanity either way, or FW will mind-control you constantly.

6 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

a fight from a game with the most basic controls and less exigent reactions of the entire survival category

FW is not exigent and doesn't require quick reactions, yeah sure, got any other jokes?

 

17 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

There is an option if you feel good beating it but dont like the fight.

There isn't an option for hating it and not have done it, which is the majority of players. An honest poll would have "I never beat it" as a result. The phrasing is discouraging those who didn't beat him from participating.

[Swiyss]

7 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

hating it and not have done it

That's basically what a hypocrite would do. Saying they hate the fight without ever trying. Why should we even consider an opinion from someone inside a Plato's cave?

[Dwight34]

6 minutes ago, astareus said:

That's basically what a hypocrite would do. Saying they hate the fight without ever trying. Why should we even consider an opinion from someone inside a Plato's cave?

Done it as in beat him, but continue being daft on purpose, it's not at all noticeable. You are all so obsessed with your one-liners and seething hatred of all sane players that you can't take a second to read correctly. DegenerateFurry might have the right idea in blocking the cultists.

[IAmAFurrz]

a lot of the problems in bossfights are some of them are just stupid at random, cuz ive been fighting wall-less dragonfly and its super engaging (i should probably start practicing enraged df as well but im still pussying out of it), the problem lies at how tanky the larvaes are and the fact that df can just spawn more than 1 at a pond. even just 2 creates such a gigantic health pool for you to deal with (and if you dodge correctly you will take too long and df will have already spawned another 2 headed your way and the only way to stop is to panflute her). if thats changed then it'd be a lot less obnoxious at random since she does this AT LEAST FOUR times with the first being 5 larvaes, and every time she does it afterwards will increase the larvae count by 1. 

fuelweaver is ****** by both sanity mechanic, the healing as well as the environment. the snowballing on the boss' side is ******* stupid similar to pre-rework CK.

if you have a nightmare creature on you you just randomly get stalked by it for ******* ever due to the rng nature of them deaggroing (and/or despawning when you have enough sanity) and if you use a tool to hit things from afar (because of course this boss does both of his obnoxious attacks at once) you can also hit the nightmares and then they'll aggro on you. not to mention the stupid mechanic makes it so at random they just wont spawn even at 0 sanity so at random you get a freebie due to that **** spawning (or you get ****** bc you wait forever to get nm fuel but they just wont spawn). and i havent even mentioned the awful arena. its cool, its got vibe and it is menacing. but the atrium, pillars, statues, and fuelweaver himself has gigantic mouse detection and often times i have to constantly rotate til i barf to get a good mouse click (or just let him reset the fight with the FOUR HUNDRED HEALING per woven eaten) and basically reset everything. the fight already costs a lot for certain methods while others require beating and opening surface rift. again im not saying its got 0 answers to, but i feel bullshited whenever a random ******* thing in the arena blocks my mouse or a random nightmare cancels my actions/constantly hit me even tho i do what im supposed to (getting sane) to get rid of them. and resetting the fight when that ******* boss takes so much resources to even do 1 clean go its really stupid. its why i never ******* touch the boss after i open rift

bee queen, just a stupid 'i **** out minion and also **** your dodging' and clearly had 0 thought given to it. before the answer was just spam your own minions, nowadays characters tend to have more tools to deal with her but overall shes still a **** boss

[WilsonHiggs]

36 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

FW is not exigent and doesn't require quick reactions, yeah sure, got any other jokes?

Oh right, I always die in their 3rd phase combo because I always dodge his AOE cleave so slow... Lmao

[Swiyss]

36 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

Done it as in beat him, but continue being daft on purpose, it's not at all noticeable. You are all so obsessed with your one-liners and seething hatred of all sane players that you can't take a second to read correctly. DegenerateFurry might have the right idea in blocking the cultists.

I think you need to stop making these direct comments that won't get us anywhere, they will just lead to the thread being locked again. I'm just pointing it out that it is kind of not cool to critique fuelweaver fight without even "beating him" I guess. It's like blaming on yourself and try to question god for the creation of human being for not being able to make a perfect spaguetti carbonara at your first time cooking. That's just how I see it and it sounds ridiculous, right?

I have fought fuelweaver a bunch, but not as much as these people that cheat the game to practice the fight has (and there is absolutely nothing wrong in doing that fyi), and I can come here and tell you my vision of the fight and my opinion about it. There is nothing wrong with the fight for me, in all years it has been out. It's just that now you and some other people are pointing out things that were noticed already in the release and were said by the developers to be the design intention of the boss.

You can come here and say that the developers of the game are being anti-ethical and elitists by making a boss fight that requires you to switch items in your inventory and organize them, but I don't think this approach will make anything actually change you know. I believe being a pacifist and acting with kindness towards other people are a way better approach to actually win them over instead of trying to separate yourself from people, that's a childish behavior.

You can also come here and tell us all that the fact that nightmare creatures are part of the fight is giving you another distraction from the fight itself and that screws with your adhd (which people have done said so), which is also another thing that can't be in the developers control. So please stop being entitled to changing the world to your liking and start adapting to it, and maybe change your way of approaching people and spreading your ideas. You're lucky I'm giving you attention here.

There can't be a way to make his shielding and healing easier without completely destroying the boss in a multiplayer setting. The game is not meant to be played alone, it is called Don't Starve Together, and you are going to have a way harder time trying to do it by yourself, so you better get used to it.

And if you don't like this idea of bosses not being adaptable for multiplayer, I am also not against Klei adding a setting option in the game to make boss enemies have less health. But also, that's not very much necessary, because there is already an option to reduce the damage you take, make you respawn at any given time, allow you to not reset the world on a timer etc.. This should be enough for you to practice the fight. There is no shame in rolling back to a previous save to try again as well, especially if it's your first time.

[Swiyss]

2 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

a lot of the problems in bossfights are some of them are just stupid at random, cuz ive been fighting wall-less dragonfly and its super engaging (i should probably start practicing enraged df as well but im still pussying out of it), the problem lies at how tanky the larvaes are and the fact that df can just spawn more than 1 at a pond. even just 2 creates such a gigantic health pool for you to deal with (and if you dodge correctly you will take too long and df will have already spawned another 2 headed your way and the only way to stop is to panflute her). if thats changed then it'd be a lot less obnoxious at random since she does this AT LEAST FOUR times with the first being 5 larvaes, and every time she does it afterwards will increase the larvae count by 1. 

fuelweaver is ****** by both sanity mechanic, the healing as well as the environment. the snowballing on the boss' side is ******* stupid similar to pre-rework CK.

if you have a nightmare creature on you you just randomly get stalked by it for ******* ever due to the rng nature of them deaggroing (and/or despawning when you have enough sanity) and if you use a tool to hit things from afar (because of course this boss does both of his obnoxious attacks at once) you can also hit the nightmares and then they'll aggro on you. not to mention the stupid mechanic makes it so at random they just wont spawn even at 0 sanity so at random you get a freebie due to that **** spawning (or you get ****** bc you wait forever to get nm fuel but they just wont spawn). and i havent even mentioned the awful arena. its cool, its got vibe and it is menacing. but the atrium, pillars, statues, and fuelweaver himself has gigantic mouse detection and often times i have to constantly rotate til i barf to get a good mouse click (or just let him reset the fight with the FOUR HUNDRED HEALING per woven eaten) and basically reset everything. the fight already costs a lot for certain methods while others require beating and opening surface rift. again im not saying its got 0 answers to, but i feel bullshited whenever a random ******* thing in the arena blocks my mouse or a random nightmare cancels my actions/constantly hit me even tho i do what im supposed to (getting sane) to get rid of them. and resetting the fight when that ******* boss takes so much resources to even do 1 clean go its really stupid. its why i never ******* touch the boss after i open rift

bee queen, just a stupid 'i **** out minion and also **** your dodging' and clearly had 0 thought given to it. before the answer was just spam your own minions, nowadays characters tend to have more tools to deal with her but overall shes still a **** boss

ayo chill out man, Its a hard game, but not the end of the world. You're kinda feeding the hate what it wants. Try overcoming it with skill trees, not every character is Wes.

[NPCMaxwell]

*just doesn't do combat or boss monsters in general. But thinks they are all fine the way they are*

(or could maybe get a "difficulty-setting"?)

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Dwight34 said:

immediately implies the only reason one would think terrorbeaks disturb the fight is because they have ADHD

I'm not implying anything. Some people actually said that and I'm quoting them since they're posting on a public forum.

1 hour ago, Dwight34 said:

"not cool to critique fuelweaver fight without even "beating him" " So people can't complain about not being able to beat a boss before they've beat the boss, got it chief, makes perfect sense, I see you truly have the opinion of the overwhelming majority of the playerbase in mind and not your massively overinflated ego.

That's not what I said. I talked about people who never tried the boss. Stop straight up lying to get your agenda complete, and stop accusing me of like, discrimination or something. Again, being personal won't help here and you really gotta stop with this.

Like, sure, I'm also not being against people who couldn't beat him and then came here to complain, we should listen to those people. I'm not against that.

But you can't just be accuse me of being such a horrible person just because I stated that people who didn't try the fight shouldn't have a strong opinion about changing it completely. And someone who defeated the ancient fuelweaver is not different from someone who tried it, I feel like you don't understand this concept.

5 hours ago, astareus said:

It's like blaming on yourself and try to question god for the creation of human being for not being able to make a perfect spaguetti carbonara at your first time cooking. That's just how I see it and it sounds ridiculous, right?

That still holds up. Beating fuelweaver and fighting fuelweaver will both give you a perspective of the fight. But not even trying the fight and complaining about it is kinda lame. Also, you can't beat fuelweaver perfectly at your first time, so of course your inventory managment will be all over the place. It's supposed to be a different challenge from other fights where you just eat pierogi and equip a marble suit.

1 hour ago, Dwight34 said:

If you can't realize the behavior of your cult, every single member acting about as morally upstanding as members of Caesar's Legion in FNV, is the reason I'm not giving you any respect since you spit in 99% of players faces, there is no help to be given you. You are all truly deranged.

You might say that, to try and invalidate me and some other people in here. But I'm against that. I will say that I don't really care that much about what you think, but if that affects you and you feel bad about it, then I wanna hear why and try to come up with a solution and a fix to your problem, and I'll still respect you, even if you lost respect for me I guess. But let's move on.

I really don't feel like removing nightmare creatures from the fight is a great idea because he's the last boss of the game before rifts, he's supposed to be the insanity realm shadow king, the fuelweaver. There's nothing really more thematic and cool than this, and having nightmare creatures as part of the fight WERE a problem. You might not know, but they used to stay even longer after you got sane again. It's just when you hit them that they won't stop attacking.