Fuelweaver poll (again) (again v2) (v3)

[Swiyss]

just let me know.

EDIT (My opinion since the poll is not public):

• I believe that fuelweaver is fine and does not need a rework, maximum thing maybe just little number tweaks, but overall he's fine since you can just kill him with gunpowder.
• I really love bee queen as well, and I love the fact that she's very hard to pull off, I do use rollbacks though I'm not gonna lie since I play alone and meant to play the game in a more chill perspective.
• I absolutely hate everything about new crab king with all my might, he's the embodiment of a weak little crab that needs the help from UNEXPLICABLY new crabs that showed up without any lore to back it up when it was only pearl and him before. He went from chadking to weaking, his fight is nothing compared to the old one. The old crab king should've just get some mechanics changed a bit and the gems interactions be a little better, but not completely overhaul his identity which they did and I hate it.
• I had no real reason to rework dragonfly until somewhat recently where I realized how boring it is if she goes to spawn larvae 6 times in a row and you're forced to stand there waiting for the larvae to die. I wish they fixed larvae pathing and forced people to use statues instead of walls. I wish she wouldn't go spawn more larvae if she already did it in the last phase, and I wish 1 use of a blue staff would freeze the larvae completely to make this fight more about controlling sanity and farming for ice staves (since the only real use for it was crab king but now he's gone, I miss him so much, I think about him when I drink v**ka in the snow and cry) and pan flutes to calm her down if she enrages which I don't really mind needing for the fight.

[Valase]

1- I like to fight FW after CC, mainly because I find it easier to assemble all the heavy objects at once (the two main land lunar altars and the shadow pieces pieces), so I finish CC quest and use b-shade gear;

2- pre-rifts, I find her a bore, after rifts, I fight her on cd (good loot and a "fair" fight);

3- before his rework I just bee-ed him to death, now I fight him fair and square, but not as often as BQ (there is not much use for the treasures if you play solo, and once you find the frostjaw spots, you don't need as many boats/boat bumpers);

4- I kill her to get the blueprints.

I'd like to add that, with Winona I kill Dfly on cd once I get her setup going, while with Wormwood, I kill shadow pieces (after I'm done with FW and CC) on every new moon, simply because I find the fight way more enjoyable.

[Swiyss]

12 minutes ago, Valase said:

simply because I find the fight way more enjoyable.

Me too, I thought I was the only one.

13 minutes ago, Valase said:

before his rework I just bee-ed him to death

I never actually used this method. However there was no fight in the entire game that made me AS HAPPY to learn it other than crab king's. I was literally doing crab king for lunch, It felt so so so great having all my effort be rewarded after learning his fight, knowing each phase, knowing the best boat placement, knowing when to freeze and when to attack him, it was all very processual and very easy to understand, wait x seconds do x casts, wait y phase do y movement. But this new fight is the exact opposite. I learned the fight once and now I use this method always, unless for willow cause I do full purple and let bernie tank them. I also did full orange once and used weather pains alongside my attacks but I still needed either the panflute or bernie to tank for me which I find so boring. I wish he would drop more bumper kits if you used only 1 gem type or more than 6 for each type.

[WilsonHiggs]

Fw is the best boss while BQ is a fun boss that can be improved with funnier mechanics

Df is a very outdated boss with a repetitive pattern, a enrage form that rewards omitting it and very simple minions that most people cheese because they prefer to be afk than engaging with content

 

Not in the poll but shadow pieces needs a rework. Fighting them and doing the moon storm event are the most boring things in the game which is awful considering they are part of the progression. People love to complain about a fun and challenging fights and no one complains about boring stuff because are easy

[FillerText]

I think the Dragonfly fight is pretty fine, and that the only change I would at most make is reduce Lavae health by like 100/some tweaks to enraged state to make it an alternate way to do the fight instead of just using the free flute. People just make it unfun for themselves by using strats that make you stay afk for half the fight instead of any more active approach.

I saw one vid titled "is Walter even fun?", and the person in question was just killing her in a purposefully boring, and resource inefficient way that I think is representative of how most people treat, and see Dragonfly as. They fight her like a boring resource sink boss, and get a boring resource sink boss. The entire video, I was thinking "Why won't they chase dragonfly with a hambat, while she is slowly flying from one point to another?". I think the way Dragonfly is tackled by players needs more tweaks than the boss itself. I think the fight would be much better if players used different strats, and if there were simply more different tools to deal with her(like burst damage weapons more reasonable than Blowdarts you can obtain during like 1 season only). I am afraid of the possibility of the fight turning into a boss you fight in very similiar ways to basic enemies like Scorpions, or Royal Guards in Hamlet(although I think they're fun to fight).

[Swiyss]

20 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Not in the poll but shadow pieces needs a rework. Fighting them and doing the moon storm event are the most boring things in the game which is awful considering they are part of the progression. People love to complain about a fun and challenging fights and no one complains about boring stuff because are easy

Oh I like shadow pieces, It's not really a boss fight, more like an intermediate fight between some lore shadow kings, I don't think this fight NEEDS to be better because the reason why it is the way it is is to be the way it is if you get what I mean.

[linabagel]

FW is a well-designed BOSS; After players gradually become familiar with the combat siklls of DST in the process of defeating the seasonal boss and beequeen (or klaus), finally facing Shadow's ultimate boss, I think this is in line with the player's learning curve. What's more, the brightshade staff and the character's st almost reduced the difficulty of the battle considerably. For me personally, the FW difficulty of the current version is already very low. 

BUT, I don't mind adding extra information to FW to help other players fight better, because not all players are very good at "fight", and some players on other platforms will be more complicated operation.

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, linabagel said:

I think this is in line with the player's learning curve

Thanks GOD someone said it. I wish more people would think like you linabagel

[WilsonHiggs]

36 minutes ago, astareus said:

Oh I like shadow pieces, It's not really a boss fight, more like an intermediate fight between some lore shadow kings, I don't think this fight NEEDS to be better because the reason why it is the way it is is to be the way it is if you get what I mean.

The fight is very bland and the only interesting thing about them is that you can summon more than 1 or keep summoning them as long as 1 is alive

[SpookyXy]

I hate fighting fuelweaver, I'm just not good at swapping between multiple tools or equipment quickly. That being said, my biggest complaint about the fight is just terror beaks spawning so quickly on me when I'm using the nightmare amulet and taking so long to leave when I take it back off. I would be a lot more tolerant of the fight's difficulty and resource requirements if just that was changed.

[FillerText]

58 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Not in the poll but shadow pieces needs a rework. Fighting them and doing the moon storm event are the most boring things in the game which is awful considering they are part of the progression. People love to complain about a fun and challenging fights and no one complains about boring stuff because are easy

All I'd like is more methods to assemble them, and to significantly buff the first 2 phases. It's kinda just best tank them with a Marble suit due to how squishy they are along with relatively low damage output. I think the balance between all 3 max level pieces is fine, but what comes before that needs tweaks.

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, FillerText said:

All I'd like is more methods to assemble them, and to significantly buff the first 2 phases. It's kinda just best tank them with a Marble suit due to how squishy they are along with relatively low damage output. I think the balance between all 3 max level pieces is fine, but what comes before that needs tweaks.

Guys I believe the inkblights should be the focus of this idea. I believe the shadow pieces are fine where they are for the player's skill level!

[FillerText]

1 minute ago, astareus said:

Guys I believe the inkblights should be the focus of this idea. I believe the shadow pieces are fine where they are for the player's skill level!

Fair. They could perfectly stay as-is. Because Shadow Pieces, and AG are like the only bosses I would reasonably expect someone who just learnt how to deal with seasons, and it's bosses to be able to beat them. I sometimes forget that I used to be very frustrated with Dragonfly due to the fact, that it's such a big jump in difficulty compared to just surviving.

[WilsonHiggs]

25 minutes ago, astareus said:

Guys I believe the inkblights should be the focus of this idea. I believe the shadow pieces are fine where they are for the player's skill level!

What player skill level? Picking rook to beat it safely with enough speed? Even a deerclops is more interesting

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

What player skill level? Picking rook to beat it safely with enough speed? Even a deerclops is more interesting

He does way more damage than deerclops and you need way more speed to dodge it's attacks.

[WilsonHiggs]

Just now, astareus said:

He does way more damage than deerclops and you need way more speed to dodge it's attacks.

But you summon it so you are always prepare, their atack has a long animation so, with enough speed, is impossible to be killed 

Is the most boring fight in the game. At least you can summon 2 or 3 to spice things up 

[hyoton123]

Only change for the listed bosses I think is that fuelweaver’s total healing should be capped each summoning phase (so for example it would stop healing after recovering 50% of its missing HP). I don’t think the game has enough info about how the woven shadows work.

 

Dfly is a good starter boss. I appreciate how boring it is. 

 

I do think shadow pieces on the other hand are comically dull- even more than dragonfly!

[Guille6785]

5 hours ago, astareus said:

I absolutely hate everything about new crab king with all my might, he's the embodiment of a weak little crab that needs the help from UNEXPLICABLY new crabs that showed up without any lore to back it up when it was only pearl and him before. He went from chadking to weaking, his fight is nothing compared to the old one. The old crab king should've just get some mechanics changed a bit and the gems interactions be a little better, but not completely overhaul his identity which they did and I hate it.

Ngl I feel crazy because nobody ever brings this up but did Klei completely forget the entire lore for the Crab King that they themselves made when they did the rework, or did they just not care and it was officially retconned? The implication in the old fight was that the lunar magic from the celestial tribute made Crab King go insane while growing tremendously in size, the "king" title was more of an ironic thing to reflect how despite being immensely powerful and having the treasure he was searching for he is lonely and left behind everything he cared about, all the while his insanity and corruption was reflected in his fight as he never attacked you with physical attacks like the other bosses do but he relied exclusively on magic to do things like sink your boat instantly or freeze you

meanwhile new crab king is just "haha, he's the crab KING, therefore he has all these little crabs he spams during the fight! isn't that funny? don't think about the logistics of how he convinced all of these crabs to work for him, despite the fact that the celestial tribute made him go completely insane and incapable of thinking even about his lover, they're just silly little crabs!"

[DegenerateFurry]

The way you've phrased the responses for the poll is more about how people feel after beating the boss than their opinion on the quality of the boss. These don't tell us if people like Fuelweaver's design. Even I feel relieved after I beat the broken skeleton and I'm easily his biggest hater - it's a simple fact that overcoming a painful and exceedingly difficult challenge feels good to some extent. Please stop trying to put so much personal flair on it that you make the results of your poll useless - take a look at how I did my Crab King poll (very simple and to-the-point response options that boil down to "I like the boss's design" or "I don't like the boss's design").

Like, even a few of the rather uncompromising Fuelweaver defender crowd would agree that it's kinda screwy that you target him over the unseen hands/wovens when he's invincible, but your poll's responses don't care about actually getting people's opinions on the design quality.

[YouKnowWho142]

fuelweaver just needs quality of life, specifically priority changes when his shield or woven shadows are up which would help with accessibility. Maybe some change to bone cages, giving more options to deal with them and how frequent they are considering how much you need to move in this fight. Keeping in mind most of ANR bosses are not designed with singleplayer in mind, fuelweaver is where it needs to be.

I really wish dragonfly's lavae worked differently, they are super tanky and disruptive and don't feel like an enjoyable aspect of the fight even with multiple players. Otherwise I like her more advanced kiting pattern since she punishes you for dodging early which is really unique and fun to go against.

Bee queen is a boss I still don't like at all, but now that every character has access to strong aoe now I feel a bit better about her. Though, it still doesn't fix my personal issue with her that if your character has aoe she's super easy and if you don't she's unreasonably hard (especially without the panflute/speed cheese), I wish it wasn't so polarizing with her since there are so many characters that can basically invalidate her while others have an insanely rough time (in multiplayer she basically dies instantly so she doesn't function great as a raid boss either)

Crab king I don't want to rant about but he needs a billion tweaks for him to be in a state where I'd actually like fighting him as he is now

[Swiyss]

54 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The way you've phrased the responses for the poll is more about how people feel after beating the boss than their opinion on the quality of the boss. These don't tell us if people like Fuelweaver's design. Even I feel relieved after I beat the broken skeleton and I'm easily his biggest hater - it's a simple fact that overcoming a painful and exceedingly difficult challenge feels good to some extent. Please stop trying to put so much personal flair on it that you make the results of your poll useless - take a look at how I did my Crab King poll (very simple and to-the-point response options that boil down to "I like the boss's design" or "I don't like the boss's design").

Like, even a few of the rather uncompromising Fuelweaver defender crowd would agree that it's kinda screwy that you target him over the unseen hands/wovens when he's invincible, but your poll's responses don't care about actually getting people's opinions on the design quality.

Ok degenerate furry. I surely tried to be biased on purpose to prove my point.

It's completely rigged, don't even worry about it.

[Mysterious box]

 

4 hours ago, FillerText said:

I think the Dragonfly fight is pretty fine, and that the only change I would at most make is reduce Lavae health by like 100/some tweaks to enraged state to make it an alternate way to do the fight instead of just using the free flute. People just make it unfun for themselves by using strats that make you stay afk for half the fight instead of any more active approach.

I saw one vid titled "is Walter even fun?", and the person in question was just killing her in a purposefully boring, and resource inefficient way that I think is representative of how most people treat, and see Dragonfly as. They fight her like a boring resource sink boss, and get a boring resource sink boss. The entire video, I was thinking "Why won't they chase dragonfly with a hambat, while she is slowly flying from one point to another?". I think the way Dragonfly is tackled by players needs more tweaks than the boss itself. I think the fight would be much better if players used different strats, and if there were simply more different tools to deal with her(like burst damage weapons more reasonable than Blowdarts you can obtain during like 1 season only). I am afraid of the possibility of the fight turning into a boss you fight in very similiar ways to basic enemies like Scorpions, or Royal Guards in Hamlet(although I think they're fun to fight).

I don't really think there is a way to fix it without upsetting people honestly while the way it's generally tackled is unfun this is a case where a cheese is so widely known that it's considered the definitive way to do the fight. If your a newer player learning from other players you'll usually only be taught the wall method or even sometimes dissaded from not using walls due to people calling it "try harding". That's not to say I feel using walls should go away as it does make the fight more accessible for less skilled players however a lot of fun little interactions are never seen in multiplayer because of this.

For example Willow and Bernie can make quick work of the larvae due to their fire immunity.

Wolfgang can wait until all the larvae spawn and gather on him and throw 2 icebells to freeze them all at once since his icebell does 2 hits worth of freeze per throw.

In the case of Walter while he can just outrun dfly I feel like the best way for him to handle the fight is to use melee weapon but when dfly enters the larvae phase switch to freeze rounds to freeze the larvae and dfly herself. Much like Wolfgang's icebell Walter's freeze rounds do two stacks worth of freeze per shot but with his newly added faster fire rate the stacks actually mean something. Since each larvae needs 3 shots to freeze it takes 2 shots from the slingshot to freeze them so you can either shoot each larvae individually for a safer freeze or use the thulecite frame to shoot them all at once to conserve ammo. Then when it comes to enraged dfly she needs 12 ice staff shots to freeze or 6 shots with freeze rounds and again with the faster fire rate getting 6 shots off is easy enough and leads to what feels like a far more proactive version of the fight without feeling cheesy like walls.

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't really think there is a way to fix it without upsetting people honestly

You know what ignore what I said here you know how to get people to stop wanting to cheese the fight? Make water balloons more effective in the dfly fight.

[WilsonHiggs]

5 hours ago, FillerText said:

I think the Dragonfly fight is pretty fine, and that the only change I would at most make is reduce Lavae health by like 100/some tweaks to enraged state to make it an alternate way to do the fight instead of just using the free flute. People just make it unfun for themselves by using strats that make you stay afk for half the fight instead of any more active approach.

I saw one vid titled "is Walter even fun?", and the person in question was just killing her in a purposefully boring, and resource inefficient way that I think is representative of how most people treat, and see Dragonfly as. They fight her like a boring resource sink boss, and get a boring resource sink boss. The entire video, I was thinking "Why won't they chase dragonfly with a hambat, while she is slowly flying from one point to another?". I think the way Dragonfly is tackled by players needs more tweaks than the boss itself. I think the fight would be much better if players used different strats, and if there were simply more different tools to deal with her(like burst damage weapons more reasonable than Blowdarts you can obtain during like 1 season only). I am afraid of the possibility of the fight turning into a boss you fight in very similiar ways to basic enemies like Scorpions, or Royal Guards in Hamlet(although I think they're fun to fight).

100 HP are just 2 hits with regular damage characters... That is super low hp for a slow mob that come 1 or 2 at a time, rarely 3.

They already have a mechanic involving hitting them 3 times with an ice staff. Why would they simplify even more killing them?

[DegenerateFurry]

17 minutes ago, astareus said:

Ok degenerate furry. I surely tried to be biased on purpose to prove my point.

It's completely rigged, don't even worry about it.

 What I'm trying to tell you is that you've done that so hard that you're not even proving the point you're trying to prove anymore. All your poll shows is that people feel satisfied when they get past a difficult boss. It has literally nothing about the quality of said boss.

[Valase]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

meanwhile new crab king is just "haha, he's the crab KING, therefore he has all these little crabs he spams during the fight! isn't that funny? don't think about the logistics of how he convinced all of these crabs to work for him, despite the fact that the celestial tribute made him go completely insane and incapable of thinking even about his lover, they're just silly little crabs!"

I thought that those where his little children ;-;

On the same note, nothing stops them from also being insane/controlled due lunar corruption, one big thing about the lunar side is how it will try to corrupt anything that touches it.