Woodie can no longer use tree army on FW

[IAmAFurrz]

6 hours ago, Arcwell said:

I know the majority of this forum approves of cheese getting removed, but these sorts of changes feel specifically antagonistic towards playstyles that I and others enjoy :/

pretty sad that they very specifically remove cheese methods for **** that so many people detest. i haaaate that stupid fight so much, so cramped and so much **** on screen makes this fight more a fight against the pillars and interactable things than against the boss itself

[Szczuku]

They didn't "get rid of an exploit because they wanted to remove the cheese" they just fixed a bug, an unintended feature that existed because of a developer's oversight

[Masked Koopa]

I think id rather see Woodie's tree be given a little more panache than the Treeguards be a major point of focus in the first place. I enjoy unconventional methods of dealing with bosses quite a lot, but I think there is more value in something available to all characters than there is in adding the already tired "here's a mob that fights for you" gimmick to yet another character. You could obviously argue that there's tradeoffs inherent to the process or whatever, but Klei is already in a tough position regarding distinguishing Webber and Wurt as-is.

To me the idol is already a fine way to get more living logs, since you get 2 treeguards (12 LL) for an investment of 2 living logs. I'd rather something like Rock Lobsters be buffed to be more effective against FW, as unlike Woodie's idols they don't really have a use outside of being hired hands.

[Jakepeng99]

11 hours ago, Arcwell said:

I know the majority of this forum approves of cheese getting removed, but these sorts of changes feel specifically antagonistic towards playstyles that I and others enjoy :/

Plants are not meant to be able to be planted on stone.

[aidankocherhans]

11 hours ago, lowercase skye said:

The point of this change wasn't to stop specifically Woodie from making treeguards in the atrium, it was to stop world regrowth from unrelentingly planting evergreens on transplanted ruins or archives turf on the surface. I myself have experienced trying to make a base in a forest with archives flooring, only to come back from a task and find literally hundreds of trees all over my base that I had to slowly remove one by one and yet would always come back. The fact that you can't intentionally plant pinecones in the atrium is just a highly specific side effect of the solution they put in place for this.

Why not just disable tree regrowth in this situation?

8 hours ago, hoxi said:

That's all they did, they gave those tile definitions the "hard" flag, which is weird they were lacking in the first place. It prevents stuff from being planted on them, including by world regrowth.

It was not made with the intention to prevent Woodie from doing that specific strat, but it resulted in that too. I guess we'll see if they want to restore it or not, it's not like it isn't doable.

They had to have known that Woodie's cheese was the one significant thing that would be affected by changing the atrium turf specifically

[JaxckLl]

12 hours ago, Arcwell said:

I know the majority of this forum approves of cheese getting removed, but these sorts of changes feel specifically antagonistic towards playstyles that I and others enjoy :/

Then the majority of the forum is wrong. That being said, I don't think this fix had anything to do with breaking cheese. I for one hate how obnoxious world regrowth can be especially with Evergreens. There is nothing more annoying than setting up a farm with a turf that seems like it will work/look good, only for a ******* evergreen to pop into it and ruin things.

BTW the cheese is still doable if you switch to Wurt after having cleared Celestial Champion. Her turf changing spell can create temporary land tiles which you can then put Evergreens or Catapults on.

[Uedo]

Klei used to be one of those devs that let bugs and exploits exist because they were fun. Abiotic Factor for example can be sequenced breaked so easily, you can literally build bridges skipping over so much, the devs even gave people more late game tools to do stuff like that with.
It's absolutely celebrated for the freedom of expression it allows the player.

DST is just on rails nowadays, it's very limited in terms of player input, there is a way you should do a thing and that's it. 

1 hour ago, JaxckLl said:

BTW the cheese is still doable if you switch to Wurt after having cleared Celestial Champion. Her turf changing spell can create temporary land tiles which you can then put Evergreens or Catapults on.

I don't think this works anymore, I don't think it has for a long time

[JaxckLl]

Does it not? Now *that* felt like an exploit

[IAmAFurrz]

28 minutes ago, Uedo said:

DST is just on rails nowadays, it's very limited in terms of player input, there is a way you should do a thing and that's it. 

doesnt help that alternatives are limited to gunpowder, winona catapults/houndious for much worse dps, or flingo cheese/moleworm cheese. 

also doesnt help that progression is 1 straight line for most characters (snurtle armor and slurtle helmet is prime example: too hard to farm, **** chance to get, and so much worse than just getting a thulecite crown), or there are those that have replacements of stuff in progression like armor or weapon (ignoring maxwell).

[Hollow soul 3]

Can't you still get a bunch to follow you in?

[Mysterious box]

Wow this thread in real time is quite litteraly a rehash of what happened when void walking was patched. People refusing to accept that in order to fix one issue it ended up fixing something else by accident and instead assuming they simply wanted to spite people... 

[Arcwell]

15 hours ago, lowercase skye said:

The point of this change wasn't to stop specifically Woodie from making treeguards in the atrium, it was to stop world regrowth from unrelentingly planting evergreens on transplanted ruins or archives turf on the surface.

12 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Why do you guys think the change that explicitly says it will prevent world regrowth, something that doesn't happen in the Atrium, is handcrafted to stop this random thing I never once saw anyone complaining about? 

8 hours ago, Szczuku said:

They didn't "get rid of an exploit because they wanted to remove the cheese"

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

assuming they simply wanted to spite people

The intent hardly matters in this case. I'm sure it was intended for regrowth, but the effect on the treeguard strat is the same regardless.

Klei could have worked around it but chose not to. This is not the first time this has happened nor will it be the last.

I'm glad people who were basing with ruins turfs don't have to deal with regrowth anymore. I am not glad that planting was removed as collateral damage.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Klei could have worked around it but chose not to.

Do we even know for sure if the people who were fixing it even knew it was a thing? Like being upset a interaction is gone is understandable but do they have to review every cheese method when they roll out a fix so as not to step on anyone's toes?

[Arcwell]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Do we even know for sure if the people who were fixing it even knew it was a thing? Like being upset a interaction is gone is understandable but do they have to review every cheese method when they roll out a fix so as not to step on anyone's toes?

If they didn't, they do now.
They could add it back in, and that would change things, but they won't. Like I've said, this has happened before. When lureplant cheese was removed, devs stated it was because of Scrappy Werepig. They considered re-adding it for pre-rifts content, they did not.

[DinsdaleP]

4 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Can't you still get a bunch to follow you in?

This is what I've been thinking about, but the problem is, even if you could replace turf in the rest of the atrium (I'm not sure you can) and make your army outside of AFW's arena, to aggro the treeguards, AFW needs to destroy a tree... something he can't do if you can't plant there, and I'm guessing you won't be able to change the turf inside the arena.

[Uedo]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Do we even know for sure if the people who were fixing it even knew it was a thing? Like being upset a interaction is gone is understandable but do they have to review every cheese method when they roll out a fix so as not to step on anyone's toes?

I think people are confident as it was a change that came shortly after the FW cheese thread was locked. If Moongleams are fixed next, I think that would confirm it enough for me to believe it.

[JaxckLl]

3 hours ago, Uedo said:

I think people are confident as it was a change that came shortly after the FW cheese thread was locked. If Moongleams are fixed next, I think that would confirm it enough for me to believe it.

Out of the loop, what's the Moongleam exploit?

[Edible Coal]

1 hour ago, JaxckLl said:

Out of the loop, what's the Moongleam exploit?

is not really a exploit, you just place like 40 moongleam to fw and it zaps him and his little bugs

2 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

is not really a exploit, you just place like 40 moongleam to fw and it zaps him and his little bugs

it also zaps shadow hands i think

[aidankocherhans]

12 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Do we even know for sure if the people who were fixing it even knew it was a thing? Like being upset a interaction is gone is understandable but do they have to review every cheese method when they roll out a fix so as not to step on anyone's toes?

Whoever reads/moderates the forums has to have known about it, it's been talked about all lot

[Gashzer]

2 words:

MOONLIGHT SHACKLE 

 

 

[Bumber64]

53 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

2 words:

MOONLIGHT SHACKLE

What if it was a woolly costume make out of steel wool that made him look like a big sheepy boi?

[Gashzer]

44 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

What if it was a woolly costume make out of steel wool that made him look like a big sheepy boi?

Sounds like AFW's original form before he became all skelly.. fits the lore 

[NoodlemanNed]

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

2 words:

MOONLIGHT SHACKLE 

they already added this item. Only difference is that instead of using your name they called it brightshade staff, but aside from that both function the same in shutting down the boss' gimmicks.

[Gashzer]

Just now, NoodlemanNed said:

they already added this item. Only difference is that instead of using your name they called it brightshade staff, but aside from that both function the same in shutting down the boss' gimmicks.

Not pre-rift tho. And CC needs the  Shadow Snare... which is the shadow version of the Moonlight shackle that when attached to the lunar siphonator causes 3 massive shadow tentacles to attack CC while it's absorbing the altars which reduces its max hp by 20% in each phase and prevents CC from healing/gaining max hp if you leave the fight early between phases.

Both these items would add lore to the "conflict" between moon and shadow. Which that alone makes them worth it to add. 

[Hollow soul 3]

17 hours ago, DinsdaleP said:

This is what I've been thinking about, but the problem is, even if you could replace turf in the rest of the atrium (I'm not sure you can) and make your army outside of AFW's arena, to aggro the treeguards, AFW needs to destroy a tree... something he can't do if you can't plant there, and I'm guessing you won't be able to change the turf inside the arena.

I bet they can still plant themselves there with the panflute