Fuelweaver ... wtf

[WilsonHiggs]

6 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

You just have to do the whole Pearl/CC questline first. Then you get all the satisfaction of beating AFW using a late game item you got after beating a supposedly coequal boss. (We all know CC is easier.)

You also need goat horns, which suffer from bad RNG. (Better than using them for VGCF, I guess?)

I'm giving you options. You don't have to beat CC to kill AFW if you don't want, you can save on weather pains by not using them in the other bosses. So just farm WP for FW if you want to kill him first...

What a drama, getting <2 horns and killing a weak spring boss in a farming game

[Hungry French]

16 hours ago, Mr Giggio said:

 

It just means less resources for the same fight. It hardly means one extra crown if you dont cancel. Craft a couple more gear and farm a couple more food IF NECESSARY to restore and u good to go, it just sounds like nitpicking at this point 

And in order to prove the point thats a Wilson fight no canceling no shenanigans no nothing. I did a couple mistakes but it was literally the first attempt after almost a week off.  If you dont get the point it means that u dont want to and then I end the case as well. You cant enlight a person that doesnt want to see anything. 

@edit the video isnt playable it just offers a download option so I uploaded it to youtube, so:

 

You are still using weather pain, shadow amulet and lazy explorer. AFW is designed so that you don't need these things in the team.

[Mr Giggio]

7 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

You are still using weather pain, shadow amulet and lazy explorer. AFW is designed so that you don't need these things in the team.

That's a you saying, not a design. Use the same fingers you use to type to get some switching going.  You CAN get ridden of the weather pain it just means a bit more practice. That being said have a good day, I'm moving on.

[Hungry French]

7 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

That's a you saying, not a design. Use the same fingers you use to type to get some switching going. You CAN get ridden of the weather pain it just means a bit more practice. That being said have a good day, I'm moving on.

The tactic of luring AFW out of the corners so that he doesn't use minions is also not thought of as a basic tactic when playing as a team.
Ancient Fuelweaver is literally an impossible boss without cheese...

[WilsonHiggs]

Playing well, knowing the enemy and using items with mechanics developed to help is cheesing 

[NeoDeusMachina]

29 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Playing well, knowing the enemy and using items with mechanics developed to help is cheesing 

Also please don't move around inside the arena, moving is also cheesing - stay in the center, right where you were when you drew aggro, close your eyes, and hold F. If you die, then you will know the boss is impossible solo without cheese.

Edit: Not sure why Klei implemented a caging mechanics, maybe to be very super sure that players did not cheese and did not dare move inside the arena. Probably.

[Hungry French]

42 minutes ago, NeoDeusMachina said:

Также, пожалуйста, не перемещайтесь по арене, это тоже читерство — оставайтесь в центре, прямо там, где вы были, когда привлекли внимание, закройте глаза и удерживайте F. Если вы умрёте, то поймёте, что босс не проходим в одиночку без читерства.

Примечание: не знаю, почему Клей реализовал механику клетки, может быть, чтобы быть абсолютно уверенным, что игроки не будут читерить и не осмелятся заходить на арену. Возможно.

The boss is simply not honest, because he requires 10 times more from a single player than from a team of players.

[Guille6785]

4 hours ago, Hungry French said:

The tactic of luring AFW out of the corners so that he doesn't use minions is also not thought of as a basic tactic when playing as a team.
Ancient Fuelweaver is literally an impossible boss without cheese...

we did it lads, walking is officially cheese now

[Bobot roi]

On 3/12/2025 at 6:45 AM, DegenerateFurry said:

Oh boy, where to begin?

• The invincibility shield should make it so you do not target him over his woven shadows or the unseen hands. This just makes it so you're fighting the controls more than you're fighting the boss. Feels like a bug more than an intended mechanic, should be fixed. Serves literally no purpose but to be frustrating.
• The fossil RNG, while a funny haha reference to the flaws of early paleontology, is... kinda pointless, and yet another aspect of this fight that's just annoying.
  • Getting the fossils for Fuelweaver does all but require you to clear out non-renewable Spilagmites, which sucks for any Webbers you might have with you, since spitters are great and manufacturing them rather than recruiting them isn't worth the cost. 
• There is simply not enough time for you to attack him between dealing with his healing phase and his invincibility phase, so this boss with 16000 HP drags on for an obnoxiously long amount of time because you're actually dealing damage for a tiny portion of it. So, he should have a longer cooldown on making himself invincible and trying to fully heal.
• His bone ring attack (where he rains bones in a circle) is largely decorative, I don't think I've ever even seen anyone get hit by it. What's the point of it? 
• His bone cage spam is cancerous and requires you to spam teleports, and dodging it by running three times the attack distance of Dragonfly with no indication of where it ends, which also happens to take up 90% of the Atrium is not a good workaround.
  • The fact that highly skilled players who try to minimize sanity loss have to abuse the cage not forming properly on the edge of the arena is an indicator that it's too frequent. You will end up using probably at least two Lazy Explorers, which you otherwise are not likely to fully use up, meaning the fight requires you to sacrifice something you could've kept for your whole playthrough. Solution? Make him do the bone cage less frequently.
• He heals way too much from Woven Shadows, making it feel too punishing if you miss even a single one. That means using 2-3 Weather Pains (more if you screw up at all), because they don't all spawn at once and instead move slowly towards him, so each heal phase requires multiple uses. 
  • The voltgoat horn's famously bad drop rate means that you're going to feel each one you burn on him, especially if you're Warly and have better uses for those horns.
• You're pretty much required to use the Nightmare Amulet to fight him, which has an obnoxious tendency to rapidly spawn multiple Terrorbeaks. 
  • The Terrorbeaks tend not to despawn once you take the amulet off for several seconds, so while everything else is going on, you are also being chased by a fast nightmare creature that does 50 damage a hit and attacks rapidly, and there's probably multiple. 
• The Bee Queen crown is essential for the fight if you don't want to burn a crazy amount of sanity food.
  • Because of how small the windows are where you're not teleporting, killing Wovens, killing Unseen Hands, or managing sanity, you're encouraged to tank. This means you are going to lose a lot of durability on a very useful sanity restoration tool, or possibly even lose it, unless you're hot-swapping your armor in addition to everything else.
• The way item swapping works in this game means your inventory will be constantly rearranging itself if you're using number keys to swap between items. With how many different things you're swapping between in this fight (Lazy Explorer, your chosen weapon, Weather Pain, shadow amulet, a different chest slot item that's probably either armor or a mag, and ideally Bee Queen crown and a helmet), this gets really chaotic fast if you're not overly careful and requires a level of inventory management that far exceeds anything else in the game. 
  • This is a problem mostly because the fight is so fast-paced and so punishing if you miss your chance or make a small mistake. Toning down how punishing it is or slowing it down a little would help considerably.
  • The required item list for this boss is longer than it is for any other boss, and you may genuinely struggle to find room for everything in your inventory without a backpack (which isn't an option since you need an amulet for parts of the fight).
• Fuelweaver is available far earlier than his lunar counterpart, which is a problem when he's substantially more difficult and less forgiving. 
  • You can pretty reliably fight Fuelweaver by mid-winter or Spring if you're mildly experienced, but Celestial Champion - by virtue of requiring you to do Pearl's quest, visit the ruins for a Star Caller, do the moonstone event, Crab King, start up the archives, assemble all three altars on the lunar island, ideally kill Bee Queen for bundling wrap, grow a potato, and then do the moonstorms - will likely not be fought until at minimum autumn 2 if you're solo.
  • Celestial Champion's combat loop is overall far more inline with what the game typically expects of you, although it is more difficult.
  • Fuelweaver is infinitely more punishing than Celestial Champion because he'll despawn if you even leave the Atrium, whereas Celestial Champion lets you leave and resume the fight whenever you want.
  • Celestial Champion and Fuelweaver are meant to be equivalents for their side and at the same point in progression, they're just not (since Fuelweaver is accessible earlier, but is way harder). How do I know this? They both give you access to loot that helps you considerably with countering the other one. The Bone Helm is to Celestial Champion as the Brightshade Staff is to Fuelweaver. There is no reason to do this unless they're counterparts, and the skill trees also equate them as locks for planar perks.
• Due to his status as the boss that enables shadow rifts, he is sadly not skippable like Toadstool (whose fight also drags on way too long and eats too many resources, but that's just because his HP is too high). 
• A rework would make him less controversial. My polls over the years have indicated that close to half of players want him to be changed in at least small ways (such as scaling his attacks down for solo players), and the vast majority of players like Crab King post-rework (or at least don't have a negative opinion of him, which was the smallest group in the poll). Crab King was at least as controversial as Fuelweaver pre-rework. Therefore, a rework could absolutely make Fuelweaver more fun for more players, and it's something Klei should seriously consider doing soon, especially if they're gonna keep focusing on stuff that happens after you beat him.

every time i see you post it's about this boss being "poorly designed", how do you not get bored of this?

[DegenerateFurry]

52 minutes ago, Bobot roi said:

every time i see you post it's about this boss being "poorly designed", how do you not get bored of this?

I genuinely feel like it's bringing down the entire gameplay experience significantly. I despise it, and that gives me the determination to keep going until it's changed.

[WilsonHiggs]

2 hours ago, Bobot roi said:

every time i see you post it's about this boss being "poorly designed", how do you not get bored of this?

Curious enough, these people don't complain about truly poorly designed fights, items or tasks like shadow pieces, moon stone event, planar enemies being unable to fight back when hit with the new ranged weapons or BS helmet perk soup

[Hungry French]

3 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

we did it lads, walking is officially cheese now

Not walking, but abusing ai AFW. It's not right that he's not intentionally trying to absorb the minions. It look like a cheese 

15 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Curious enough, these people don't complain about truly poorly designed fights, items or tasks like shadow pieces, moon stone event, planar enemies being unable to fight back when hit with the new ranged weapons or BS helmet perk soup

Why complain about them? These are quite balanced things. And even alone, they don't stand out too much.
This is not a boss with invulnerability, 50 minions restoring him to full health, and a root attack that doesn't have a normal CD at all. Which makes the solo and multiplayer battles like 2 separate games. And so it is with half of the bosses of A New Reign and with CK.

And who's going to complain? In multiplayer, players are already satisfied with everything.
And in solo, hardly anyone wants to make all 30 bosses look like a 10-minute AFW, which does not forgive mistakes and rolls back the hours of equipment preparation.

If AFW were so difficult in multiplayer, I would still understand.
But in solo, he requires weather pains, lazy explorer, shadow amulet, and escorting him around the edges of the arena so that his minions can't even reach him.
It really looks like cheese, because you don't need all that in multiplayer.
This is not a well-thought-out battle, but poor attempts by single players to make the boss overpowering. Because we can't get through the boss without it.
Toadstool is also an impenetrable boss without weather pain, but you don't need them in the team.
Bee Queen is more passable, but using only running without panflute spam, the fight can last up to 40 minutes of running left-right, and this is ridiculous (and you ignore her guards).
Crab King is a boss whose 2/3 minions simply lengthen the battle 2-3 times longer if there is no point in killing them, because they are only needed to threaten more than one boat. 
And this makes the Ice Arena boss endless, because fighting with crabs CK replenishes all his health ...
Dragon Fly...  Minions who bang their heads against the wall are ridiculous, as is running around for a lot of time waiting for them to die of old age lol. 
There is an ICE Staff... But it takes a lot of them and they are still not needed in the command.

And this is the problem of all bosses with endless minions. 
There is a Nightmare Werepig. 10k. health, which is quite a lot for solo (by DS standards). 
But he's completely honest for a 1 player...
has anyone ever complained about him because of his fighting, and not hp? 
What about Celestial Champion, Klaus, Ice Shark, Rift bosses, Worm, Seasonal bosses? They look great in terms of movement, and even if they went to the DS, they would look organic there.

[Cheggf]

36 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

There is a Nightmare Werepig. 10k. health, which is quite a lot for solo (by DS standards). 
But he's completely honest for a 1 player...

Absolutely not. He has a lot of damage and stuns you all the time. The only way you can make it a fair fight is if you dodge his attacks, but that's ridiculous. It's not right that he's not hitting you even though he intends to. 

[WilsonHiggs]

9 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Absolutely not. He has a lot of damage and stuns you all the time. The only way you can make it a fair fight is if you dodge his attacks, but that's ridiculous. It's not right that he's not hitting you even though he intends to. 

I hope klei finally ends up with exploits. How dare players kite an atack? What is the point of having a health bar if you don't get hit?

[DegenerateFurry]

25 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Absolutely not. He has a lot of damage and stuns you all the time. The only way you can make it a fair fight is if you dodge his attacks, but that's ridiculous. It's not right that he's not hitting you even though he intends to. 

 

15 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

I hope klei finally ends up with exploits. How dare players kite an atack? What is the point of having a health bar if you don't get hit?

You people wouldn't know being intellectually honest if it crawled up the leg of your pants and bit your backsides. The person you're replying to is talking about how utterly strange it is that "mastering" Fuelweaver's fight involves leading this ancient evil possessed giant skeleton demon thing around like a misbehaving puppy on a leash for half the fight. It's thematically weird, but you're too biased to see that.