Revert theShadow Abigail nerf

[Jakepeng99]

Iiked it when she could be buffed through murder. 25 planar damage is so weak.

[Koomin]

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Iiked it when she could be buffed through murder. 25 planar damage is so weak.

Her current design is already that she is buffed through murder

[Jakepeng99]

6 hours ago, Koomin said:

Her current design is already that she is buffed through murder

Its not strong. Before it was double damage.

[Bumber64]

What's the current state of the murder buff? Is it just that Abi herself gets +25 damage for 8 seconds? IIRC there's +5 defense?

What's the bonus from shadow form itself? Just defense? (+10? IDK since nerf.)

I'm pretty sure cursed vexation is 10 planar damage any time the target is hit.

[Evelo]

Plz don't. It is strong enough. I think at least.

[Bumber64]

I would say it just needs a duration buff. It had to have a combat nerf because of ink trio, but they didn't adjust the cost to account for it being less useful everywhere else.

[Evelo]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

I would say it just needs a duration buff. It had to have a combat nerf because of ink trio, but they didn't adjust the cost to account for it being less useful everywhere else.

Oh yeah that'd be nice. 8 > 10 sec wouldnt hurt anyone realistically.

[Bumber64]

20 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Oh yeah that'd be nice. 8 > 10 sec wouldnt hurt anyone realistically.

Could go to 15? Depends on what the combat numbers are at this point.

Considering Wortox changes, Wendy shouldn't be carrying a bunch of live bees if there's not a significant benefit.

[Picklesaurus]

18 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Oh yeah that'd be nice. 8 > 10 sec wouldnt hurt anyone realistically.

How about 15 seconds? I think 15 seconds would be good.

[GamePlayer42]

what about gestalt abigail

[YouKnowWho142]

11 minutes ago, GamePlayer42 said:

what about gestalt abigail

wdym? gestalt abigail is really strong right now. I just defeated both celestial champion and fuelweaver with her and she is reall able to melt single targets with Wendy. Even the klaus fight took under 4 minutes with a nightshade gestalt abi and a ham bat

As far as shadow Abi goes all she really needs for me is a duration extension, the flat added planar damage is actually better for her if she isn't using nightshade so it makes it easier to give her cure alls and vigor mortis for increased uptime

[Jakepeng99]

15 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

I would say it just needs a duration buff. It had to have a combat nerf because of ink trio, but they didn't adjust the cost to account for it being less useful everywhere else.

Duration buff is a pointless idea.

Unless its a buff for non stackable mobs only.

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Duration buff is a pointless idea.

Unless its a buff for non stackable mobs only.

Explain.

[Mysterious box]

Call me crazy but I think giving it a 4 minute duration off one murder is where it should go just have the 4 minutes be the cap and further murders refresh it. Like I get what they were going for and I like the reference to ds but I think Wendy going sacrifice happy every few seconds is a bit much otherwise it's perfect.

[Steorra]

The current affinities III make me save 1 insight point, it's a pretty strong design for saving insight points.

[YouKnowWho142]

59 minutes ago, Steorra said:

The current affinities III make me save 1 insight point, it's a pretty strong design for saving insight points.

Gestalt Abi is worth trying at least once if you really want something different, if you plan out when you want her to be mutated her damage can be seriously impressive. I did a run using mostly Gestalt Abi killing cc and fuelweaver and she was genuinely inputting 40-50% of the damage even while I was getting as involved as I could. Even killed klaus in under 4 minutes while I was only using a ham bat and gestalt Abi. She’s not good all the time and especially against non boss enemies but I find her pretty underrated

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Call me crazy but I think giving it a 4 minute duration off one murder is where it should go just have the 4 minutes be the cap and further murders refresh it. Like I get what they were going for and I like the reference to ds but I think Wendy going sacrifice happy every few seconds is a bit much otherwise it's perfect.

This would be a reasonable change. Maybe the amount of sacrifices you do to initially start it causes a burst damage effect (only when it activates, not while she is in shadow form) so that you can still bring a lot of sacrifices if you wanted to. I’d say it should be closer to 120 seconds like luminous wrath but this is agreeable 

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Gestalt Abi is worth

No. I can't find any advantage from Gestalt Abby than regular Abby. Except CC III.

But I did could manage Abby without skilltree when fight CC III, why I need to waste a point for only such a scenario? Especially she lack of AoE and she need mutate on right timing. Why to make the game complex for only CC III?

AFW is already the most easy task for regular Abby. I have no idea why I have to use Gestalt Abby by sacrificing CursedVex damage bonus.

[Prinha]

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Call me crazy but I think giving it a 4 minute duration off one murder is where it should go just have the 4 minutes be the cap and further murders refresh it. Like I get what they were going for and I like the reference to ds but I think Wendy going sacrifice happy every few seconds is a bit much otherwise it's perfect.

You can murder things in stacks and the duration adds up. A stack of butterflies/bees is 160 seconds of shadow Abigail time.

[WilsonHiggs]

On 3/1/2025 at 5:59 AM, Bumber64 said:

Could go to 15? Depends on what the combat numbers are at this point.

Considering Wortox changes, Wendy shouldn't be carrying a bunch of live bees if there's not a significant benefit.

You dont have to do that. Just plant a flower in base and rile up abi, gather the death butterflies plus a bunch of mourning glory, that now is easily amassed, to the boss arena and revive them right before the fight 

[Jakepeng99]

18 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Explain.

A stack of bees is easy.

The true difficulty is the power.

[Bumber64]

11 hours ago, WilsonHiggs said:

You dont have to do that. Just plant a flower in base and rile up abi, gather the death butterflies plus a bunch of mourning glory, that now is easily amassed, to the boss arena and revive them right before the fight 

That's probably much slower on the reviving time alone.

6 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

A stack of bees is easy.

The true difficulty is the power.

And that was very deliberately nerfed to prevent AFK ink blights. Cursed vexation was changed to be geared towards planar, so the max potential lost was basically just the defense. (And vex multiplier vs normal bosses post-NMWP.)

[YouKnowWho142]

Isn’t the new cursed vex with shadow abi statistically stronger than pre nerf shadow abi anyways? Or at the very least, higher total planar damage?

Cursed vex adds 20 planar damage per second which is higher than the 15 damage shadow abi lost, it’s better than pre nerf as long as Wendy is involved as it should be. Even then, again, flat planar makes shadow Abi better if you’re not using nightshade which lets you use other potions and still keep a good amount of damage, that alone makes me fine with it how it is (aside from the duration)

Your argument overall seems to revolve around its current damage not being enough relative to its short duration, so I do think that a duration increase would solve shadow abi’s issues and remove the need for a nerf reversion (and depending on the duration increase, can actually let shadow Abi output more total damage than pre nerf regardless)

[IAmAFurrz]

On 3/1/2025 at 9:55 AM, Evelo said:

Plz don't. It is strong enough. I think at least.

it is strong but not that much

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Isn’t the new cursed vex with shadow abi statistically stronger than pre nerf shadow abi anyways? Or at the very least, higher total planar damage?

this post is about the murder buff not the potion. and side note, the potion is a big nerf for early game but better against planar mobs which is a neat balance change

On 3/1/2025 at 10:00 AM, Bumber64 said:

I would say it just needs a duration buff. It had to have a combat nerf because of ink trio, but they didn't adjust the cost to account for it being less useful everywhere else.

yea its quite sad cuz before it was quite powerful and simple, but now its weaker overall but didnt get any compensation for it

[WilsonHiggs]

8 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

That's probably much slower on the reviving time alone

Do you need that much time to click a crafting buttom? If you prefer to go arround wasting time catching bees with a bug net... that is on you

[Vek-606]

On 3/2/2025 at 12:37 AM, Steorra said:

The current affinities III make me save 1 insight point, it's a pretty strong design for saving insight points.

The same thing happens to me, the lunar option is not good enough, you lose area damage, control over abi and you depend on the lunar cycles and the shadow option is tedious, having to kill butterflies for a mere 8 seconds of power is not worth the investment, I think the most comfortable option is default abi.

On 3/2/2025 at 3:56 AM, Prinha said:

You can murder things in stacks and the duration adds up. A stack of butterflies/bees is 160 seconds of shadow Abigail time.

The problem is that to revive 20 butterflies you have to farm 40 mourning glories, keep that in mind for each battle in which you want to have 160s of shadow abi and you will realize how tedious it is.