Post-Update Thoughts: If Skill Items Are Locked Without Points, Shouldn’t Wickerbottom’s Bookshelf Be Too?

[Steorra]

With this latest update, characters can no longer use their special skill items without investing skill points—like Wendy’s picnic basket, which just sits there useless without the right perks. It got me thinking: shouldn’t Wickerbottom’s bookshelf have a bit more “personal space” too? After all, it’s a structure meant to hold her books, and it feels a little off for other characters to rummage through it so freely.

Take Maxwell, for example. We all know he and Wickerbottom aren’t exactly on friendly terms in the story. Wickerbottom, being the principled lady she is, probably wouldn’t be too thrilled about Maxwell poking around her bookshelf. Since the update ties skill items so closely to a character’s identity—leaving others unable to use their own gadgets without points—maybe the bookshelf should feel more exclusive to Wickerbottom too? Imagining Maxwell getting turned away from it is honestly kind of amusing.

 

[somethin]

The bookcase acts more like a public structure for both prototyping and storing books so I don't think it is needed. It's not like other char can use her books meaningfully any way besides Maxwell which while a different can of worm, it's about his game balance not the book case itself. Besides, it doesn't make sense that a librarian wouldn't allow people to touch their books. They want the opposite lol

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, somethin said:

Besides, it doesn't make sense that a librarian wouldn't allow people to touch their books.

You may check the interaction quotes from other characters to portable pot of Warly.

 

2 minutes ago, somethin said:

The bookcase acts more like a public structure for both prototyping and storing books

It is reasonable to as a public structure for prototyping maybe. But no reason for books part once you consider the skill items change applied by this update.

[Echsrick]

its not a skill item,  therefor it sould not need a skill point to accres, alsol it can store papyrus

[kroban]

I think they will do something like this when it comes to Maxwell and Wicker skill trees. I bet Maxwell will get some "nerfs" on his basekit, kind of like Winona, she got tweaks making her catapults more "exclusive".

For example I think Maxwell will get his "book reading" ability, and his access to Wicker's bookshelf, locked behind a perk and no longer be basekit. Maybe with an additional effect, but now being a perk or even an entire branch. Wickerbottom may be getting an upgraded bookshelf only she can use but Maxwell can't, or upgraded books only for her, things like that.

[YouKnowWho142]

I think this is a reasonable way to avoid that feeling that once wickerbottom crafts all the books Maxwell can just become wicker. You wouldn’t be unallowed to use the books, but you wouldn’t be able to restore them with the bookshelf. We already know they’re not opposed to nerfing interactions like that in the skill trees such as Winona’s catapults now requiring manual activation.  We will have to see what wickerbottom gets in her skill tree though that could cause this interaction to potentially occur

[mima_]

the book case should be public. 
the book isnt. 
maybe when the skill tree drop they will have branch for group of books available to be learned. but bookcase should be at the root of all those. which means its base of all books.
not all wicker learned same branch of books but they able to fill the library of bookcases freely. other should be able to access just like it is now, since wurt have function to the books and other can help putting away or retrieving books as they needed to.

[somethin]

8 hours ago, Steorra said:

t is reasonable to as a public structure for prototyping maybe. But no reason for books part once you consider the skill items change applied by this update.

Now that I think about it maybe they can justify the in game reason is that she's the only one who can arrange the book it it's correct 'library format' and all the other survivors are too dumb for that lol

[4Rory]

I think if Wickerbottom were introduced today, there is a high likelihood some of her books would be skill locked, she Feels like a post-skilltree character already (how Klei eventually implements a skill tree for her without making the game feel terribly balanced is something I'm excited to see). As is, the working model is to never take away abilities when a skilltree is added, and without books wickerbottom is just a Wes who won't eat stale food, so naaaah

[mykenception]

But Wurt wanna look at the pretty pictures too

that and the bookshelf isn't a skill locked item in the first place

even Wigfrid's shield can be shared but not the skills

you might as well gatekeep Wormwood's bramble armor then if this keeps up

[Walrusst]

What might be interesting for a wickerbottom is to have the books be in levels of difficulty.
So say, there are picture books that our willsons can understand even, the middling books work for maxwell still, but the advanced books are wickerbottom only.

That way you still get the library experience of keeping and maintaining a library you share with everyone, but the biggest thing gating wickerbottoms advanced powers is just the advanced levels of knowledge that only she brings to the table.

Since the idea of the bookshelf as a means of presenting books to share with a team really is the librarian experience, but her worst books being almost just a maxwell exclusive and her best books being stole away both detract from her theming of being a librarian with knowledge that greatly exceeds what she should have (IE: Discovering the shadows and their nature in our world.)
With this, you can both strengthen the idea of what she is and also make her not a swap character.

As for her skills, this creates two interesting options for a main book line.

• The first is simply that some let her unlock bundles of smaller, weaker, more bite sized picture books with more limited/targeted effects, intended to be small QOL's and abilities for everyone. Little spells that make you glad there is that old lady fixing up the books when you return to base.
• The second would be that her more big books that give her the creative mode character reputation she has had. I haven't seen her call meteors in yet so we haven't tapped her potential yet.

Course in a post walter world it would be nice to see some insomnia perks and knowledge themed perks too.
Not like actually being able to sleep, god no. More like bizzare and inhuman ways of coping with the lack of sleep like being able to talk with and reason with the shadow demons that haunt her waking hours, or even drinking that bespoke beverage enjoyed by many who are burned alive in new york: Coffee. Or some imitation form of it.

[Cheggf]

Should Wendy's sisturn only restore sanity to Wendy? Should Wigfrid's helmets and such be unusable unless you are Wigfrid? Maxwell has so many ridiculously overpowered things about him and reading Wickerbottom's books aren't one of them, I have no idea why you guys keep attacking him at this angle.

[Edible Coal]

16 hours ago, Walrusst said:

What might be interesting for a wickerbottom is to have the books be in levels of difficulty.
So say, there are picture books that our willsons can understand even, the middling books work for maxwell still, but the advanced books are wickerbottom only.

...

come oh wilson is not that stupid 

[Mysterious box]

9 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

come oh wilson is not that stupid 

It's actually funny considering the implications that most of the science machine, alchemy engine, and boat crafts are his designs.

[YouKnowWho142]

11 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Should Wendy's sisturn only restore sanity to Wendy? Should Wigfrid's helmets and such be unusable unless you are Wigfrid? Maxwell has so many ridiculously overpowered things about him and reading Wickerbottom's books aren't one of them, I have no idea why you guys keep attacking him at this angle.

i personally think this is slightly different, since it lets Maxwell gain all of Wickerbottom's perks at no real cost. I cannot think of another interaction between characters that work quite like that, and Wickerbottom is already a fairly strong character by herself

[Walrusst]

10 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

come oh wilson is not that stupid 

I only called him a solid baseline, one of these days wurt will teach him a thing or two.

[SilverSpoon]

This is my theory I've had before, any update that makes something that used to work, especially over a long period of time, to impossible is a "Bad update." There are no exceptions.

My idea for rebalancing would be to make WickerBottom's books available to other characters limitedly, not just Maxwell(He's a bit better to use than the other characters), and she can read books so much better than other characters and to add books that are exclusive to her.

Or, it might be interesting to make it "Share Wisdom vs. Protect Wisdom" like Woltox's current "Nice vs. Naughty".

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

i personally think this is slightly different, since it lets Maxwell gain all of Wickerbottom's perks at no real cost. I cannot think of another interaction between characters that work quite like that, and Wickerbottom is already a fairly strong character by herself

What books does she have specifically that you're using on a day to day basis?

[Bumber64]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

What books does she have specifically that you're using on a day to day basis?

I would assume the resource-related ones.

The first problem is that only Maxwell can read them (ignoring Wurt). The second, as stated, is that it's Wickerbottom's entire kit.

Imagine Winona gets to shadow imprison and summon puppets if she gets her hands on the codex. (Lore: Charlie helps her.)

[Cheggf]

7 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

I would assume the resource-related ones.

You mean, the ones that are completely worthless on Maxwell because you can just amass 10 trillion of those resources before swapping to whoever you want without it needing to be Maxwell?

7 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

The first problem is that only Maxwell can read them (ignoring Wurt). The second, as stated, is that it's Wickerbottom's entire kit.

Imagine Winona gets to shadow imprison and summon puppets if she gets her hands on the codex. (Lore: Charlie helps her.)

Imagine if Winona had 3x movespeed, 3x action speed, 3x damage dealt, and stunlocked all enemies including bosses while she's above 70% hunger, but people were ignoring her doing that stuff and everyone just kept complaining that she was allowed to eat Walter's Woby treats.

[Bumber64]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You mean, the ones that are completely worthless on Maxwell because you can just amass 10 trillion of those resources before swapping to whoever you want without it needing to be Maxwell?

No, the ones you have to wait for before you can harvest them. Also fish for Pearl.

[Cheggf]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

No, the ones you have to wait for before you can harvest them.

What book is this? 

[Chewabacca]

It doesn’t really matter how useful the books are. The point still stands: that’s Wickerbottom’s entire kit. Maxwell being able to use it all on top of his own stuff robs Wickerbottom of her purpose.

 

[Edible Coal]

i do think wicker lack books that are useful to day to day activities and are only good for farming.
maxwell can read them doesn't help neither consider maxwell can farm nightmare fuel , collect resources at the same time

[Cheggf]

5 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

It doesn’t really matter how useful the books are. The point still stands: that’s Wickerbottom’s entire kit. Maxwell being able to use it all on top of his own stuff robs Wickerbottom of her purpose.

 

And so the conclusion you come to isn't that Wickerbottom's entire kit is nothing but making books, it's that Maxwell is stealing her items? If Wigfrid didn't have any of her combat related things and all she did was make various pieces of equipment would you be clamoring for that equipment to become exclusive to Wigfrid instead of Wigfrid being able to do things except make equipment?