(Video evidence) Bee Queen was supposed to be Walter's main downside nightmare, but now is only a punchbag. The slowing rounds is broken.

[Steorra]

I edit here for adding 2 potential options to fix this issue:

1. Nerf the purple gem slowing rounds, at the same time, give a accelaration buff to Woby while riding for helping Walter to dodge grumble bees; give an extra skill for Woby to make she could tolerate you to get 2 extra hits before Woby drop you down.

2. Buff grumble bees' pursuit distance - to ensure they would not back to BQ but just pursuit you continuously once you leave BQ a bit far.

========== OP is below ==========

 

 

We did knew that Bee Queen are supposed to be the hardest boss to Walter because of Walter's main downside right?

But by the help of stackable slowing rounds, Bee Queen now is one of the most EZ boss for Walter.

Check the Video (just finished in 15 mins ago).

According to some other's criticize, "Steorra is lack of Walter's knowledge & experiences". But even I have few experiences of Walter, the Bee Queen is still a punchbag for me in the video.

How could a boss which is concretizing of Walter's main downside nightmare being such easy for him? Even a player who is completely a newcomers of Walter could easily to kill Bee Queen in such way.

I personally started to wonder how opinions those who do care about the infos of the screenshot above would have to this issue.

[YouKnowWho142]

Why would Walter taking more damage from bees immediately mean that bee queen has to be incredibly hard for him? I never thought that downside was very good to begin with, but at worst all it does is make you play Walter the way he was designed to be played and making facetanking not an option.

Even then, Bee Queen is still one of Walter's more interesting matchups since the grumble bees are hard to slow down and can catch you if you're not getting out of their way, in which case if you get knocked off you basically die instantly

[somethin]

Despite his allergy Walter is ironically one of the character that has weirdly good matchup with bee queen. You don't need slow rounds for bee queen at all. 5 stacks of moon glass / marble round is more than enough to rush her in autumn if you know what you're doing. I've been doing it a few times already and it's becoming one of my favourite fights in the game.

[Steorra]

Elaborating some details of the combat test - 

1. Shadow Dashing of Woby is not a necessary skill. The Invincible.Frame on right timing could makes Bees horde lost their target when they prepare a dashing attack by BQ's scream. But you could see I always failed to teleport on the right timing for this effect in every BQ's scream period. This tips may help, but it's more about "fun" but is not necessary in practice.

2. The dashing (whatever the shadow or the normal version) is not necessary. They helps a lot for your fault toleration, but if you have enough skill to manage the timing of runaway, you need not to prepare Woby's food.

 

4 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Even then, Bee Queen is still one of Walter's more interesting matchups since the grumble bees are hard to slow down and can catch you if you're not getting out of their way, in which case if you get knocked off you basically die instantly

If I could easily get out off those grumble bees, why I should care about the difficulty you said here which is completely ignorable in practice?

2 minutes ago, somethin said:

You don't need slow rounds for bee queen at all.

Yes. But it need skilled enough for Walter.

I have no balance opinions to a "skill-needed" design. My dissatisfaction is only about the brainless design which makes every single challenge become auto-win. It do hurt my enjoyment.

[somethin]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Yes. But it need skilled enough for Walter.

I have no balance opinions to a "skill-needed" design. My dissatisfaction is only about the brainless design which makes every single challenge become auto-win. It do hurt my enjoyment.

Well you have to consider the cost needed to pull this off if you want the "ez pz braindead" route. Slow down rounds are expensive no matter how you slice it, especially in early game where you would want to get her jelly the most. It's not really that different than spamming pan flute to skip the fight or spamming rabbit hutches to help "cheese" her (it's not. You're using in game mechanics to help you fight)

[Steorra]

12 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Why would Walter taking more damage from bees immediately mean that bee queen has to be incredibly hard for him?

 

Also there's other's argument could help you know why should Bee Queen being more hard to Walter than other characters.

Walter's main downside is Bees according to his lore. There's no reason to make Walter's BQ fighting being much easier than any other characters who have no downside to bees.

[SilverSpoon]

7 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Why would Walter taking more damage from bees immediately mean that bee queen has to be incredibly hard for him? I never thought that downside was very good to begin with, but at worst all it does is make you play Walter the way he was designed to be played and making facetanking not an option.

The extra damage Walter takes from bees (+10) cannot be mitigated by armor, so a series of damage from the Bee Queen and 4-8 Grumble Bees will reduce Walter's health by nearly 1/2-5/6 at a time.

And note that he can't wear a Bee Keeper Hat either, since he needs to protect his sanity with a Pinetree Pioneer Hat.

However, also I don't like this downside.

[YouKnowWho142]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

 

Also there's other's argument could help you know why should Bee Queen being more hard to Walter than other characters.

Walter's main downside is Bees according to his lore. There's no reason to make Walter's BQ fighting being much easier than any other characters who have no downside to bees.

... okay?

then that means every time walter hits a bee with his slingshot he has to take damage. that way walter has a harder time fighting bees since that's how he's supposed to be played.

Walter's entire character revolves around being penalized whenever he gets hit by any source, not just bees. It's true that bees do more damage to him, but every mob in the game that does damage also tanks his sanity. Yet he's able to avoid getting hit by using his slingshot. That's how he's meant to be played. The fact that they're bees doesn't change that fact.

[Steorra]

Just now, somethin said:

Slow down rounds are expensive no matter how you slice it, especially in early game where you would want to get her jelly the most. It's not really that different than spamming pan flute to skip the fight or spamming rabbit hutches to help "cheese" her (it's not. You're using in game mechanics to help you fight)

No. Purple gem is cheap since ruin rush in early game for Walter is far more easier than other characters.

And why you don't check how many slowing rounds I consumed for the BQ fighting in the video yourself? 3.6 purple gems is really such "expensive" to makes you have to mention that "Slow down rounds are expensive"?

3.6 purple gems for BQ's reward in first autumn - It's obviously one of the cheapest cost of BQ fighting among the whole DST characters. Though yeah, expensive than Codex Umbra.

Just now, YouKnowWho142 said:

then that means every time walter hits a bee with his slingshot he has to take damage.

Don't put words into my mouth. That does no work to me.

My opinion is "Since Walter's main downside is bees, BQ fighting for Walter should be far more harder than for other characters. Current stage the BQ fighting for Walter is the most EZ one compare with other characters. That's should not happened."

[YouKnowWho142]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Don't put words into my mouth. That does no work to me.

My opinion is "Since Walter's main downside is bees, BQ fighting for Walter should be far more harder than for other characters. Current stage the BQ fighting for Walter is the most EZ one compare with other characters. That's should not happened."

Sure, ignore everything else i said.

How would Walter struggle more against bee queen than other characters? His playstyle is well suited against a slow boss like bee queen. That's the fault of the boss as opposed to the character

[Chewabacca]

Meanwhile, me flashing back to all the times I fought this boss as Walter, misclicked once in the 3rd phase, and got dead:

[Steorra]

Just now, YouKnowWho142 said:

That's the fault of the boss as opposed to the character

I DO NOT care if the problem lies behind the BQ herself or Walter. I DO care about if the BQ fighting is the the most EZ mission for Walter or not.

 

[somethin]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

No. Purple gem is cheap since ruin rush in early game for Walter is far more easier than other characters.

It's more of a personal play style thing, but I don't rush ruins since I like mapping the surface first, make a decent base then rush lunar island for moon glass and other lunar island goods asap for convenience, not to mention needing a shadow manipulator too which imo is mostly useless for walter outside of prototyping his rounds anyway. So for me it is expensive. 

[Steorra]

Just now, Chewabacca said:

Meanwhile, me flashing back to all the times I fought this boss as Walter, misclicked once in the 3rd phase, and got dead:

That may caused by the lack of QoL changes. I would 100% support you to ask some QoL changes for preventing the misclicks.

[YouKnowWho142]

Just now, Steorra said:

I DO NOT care if the problem lies behind the BQ herself or Walter. I DO care about if the BQ fighting is the the most EZ mission for Walter or not.

 

Then what's the point of the discussion? If you think it's bad that Bee Queen is easy for Walter to kill then it seems like you believe that either Walter or Bee Queen has a problem. If you don't care about either then this discussion doesn't really have a purpose

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, somethin said:

It's more of a personal play style thing, but I don't rush ruins since I like mapping the surface first,

Yes, just like you said, that's your own choice.

3.6 purple gems is never an "expensive" cost for any characters. If you choose a playstyle which helps nothing to do the BQ fighting, that's your own choices.

[Chewabacca]

Just now, Steorra said:

That may caused by the lack of QoL changes. I would 100% support you to ask some QoL changes for preventing the misclicks.

No, it is caused by my carelessness on a boss that requires Walter to be extremely careful.

[Guille6785]

this is gonna blow your mind but if you enrage the twins (which can be done in 1 night by just spamming the pan flute a few times) and summon them next to bee queen the following night they kill her in about 100 seconds and every character can do this, including walter before the skill tree

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

If you don't care about either then this discussion doesn't really have a purpose

This discussion is aiming to make BQ being hardest challenge to Walter comparing with other characters. I do not care what the method to fix the problem.

But whatever. Judgement start again. Feel free to judge anyone anything you dislike. Good luck/

[aidankocherhans]

8 minutes ago, Steorra said:

No. Purple gem is cheap since ruin rush in early game for Walter is far more easier than other characters.

And why you don't check how many slowing rounds I consumed for the BQ fighting in the video yourself? 3.6 purple gems is really such "expensive" to makes you have to mention that "Slow down rounds are expensive"?

3.6 purple gems for BQ's reward in first autumn - It's obviously one of the cheapest cost of BQ fighting among the whole DST characters. Though yeah, expensive than Codex Umbra.

You needed 4 purple gems for this fight? That's way more expensive than I was expecting, that's definitely a huge cost to make the fight easier.

[Steorra]

Just now, Guille6785 said:

this is gonna blow your mind but if you enrage the twins (which can be done in 1 night by just spamming the pan flute a few times) and summon them next to bee queen the following night they kill her in about 100 seconds and every character can do this, including walter before the skill tree

Cheese is another topic. Try to keep the discussion on topic. It's not such hard as you imagined.

[SilverSpoon]

1 minute ago, Guille6785 said:

this is gonna blow your mind but if you enrage the twins (which can be done in 1 night by just spamming the pan flute a few times) and summon them next to bee queen the following night they kill her in about 100 seconds and every character can do this, including walter before the skill tree

That's not good either.

[asdsaax]

Just now, Guille6785 said:

this is gonna blow your mind but if you enrage the twins (which can be done in 1 night by just spamming the pan flute a few times) and summon them next to bee queen the following night they kill her in about 100 seconds and every character can do this, including walter before the skill tree

I find it funny that when discussing balance and difficulty of the game
people just collectively pretend that gunpowder doesn't exist

[Steorra]

Just now, aidankocherhans said:

You needed 4 purple gems for this fight? That's way more expensive than I was expecting, that's definitely a huge cost to make the fight easier.

Again, 4 purple gems is not expensive for BQ mission. If you go sailing on day 1 for the whole autumn, you should not say "purple gem, glow berries and silks is expensive". That's your own choices.

[YouKnowWho142]

Just now, Steorra said:

This discussion is aiming to make BQ being hardest challenge to Walter comparing with other characters. I do not care what the method to fix the problem.

But whatever. Judgement start again. Feel free to judge anyone anything you dislike. Good luck/

Do you think we are personally attacking you?

The last few days you have been oddly spreading misinformation and not really being thorough with research before going to the forums and calling it a problem that needs to be immediately fixed. It is important for healthy discussion but your recent discussions have not had a lot of credibility, and that is important to call out since it is giving others the wrong idea.

This is not an attack on you. We are not judging you. It seems beneficial to spend some time away from the forum, I know I've had to several times during this beta.