Add some hunger cost to all of Woby's actions as a trade-off/为woby的各项行为都添加一些饱食度消耗作为代价

[Debruh]

Her delivery system is locked behind a three point lock, then the skill itself needing one.

Her other skills are all also their own stuff that needs insight. Which in a tree like Walter's, is actually valuable.

Wormwood can summon multiple carrats. And Wickerbottom's book requires sanity, because it instantly regrows that whatever. Unlike Walter who still needs to wait, he just gets two times the forage. Nowhere near as good as Wicker. I could go on more, but others already said everything, including the points above.

The forage and retrieve skills are mainly early game. Where you don't have much monster meat. Due to sources of it usually not being near spawn. So this would be a pretty big nerf.

Though, considering most of this user's posts have been raging about Wendy. I wouldn't be suprised if nerfing Walter is like the next big thing for them. (Lmao as I was writing this a reply above me got written, which or course rages a bit about how Wortox's lunar one is op, and how cure-all on Wraith's Wreath is weak)

2 minutes ago, YXukun said:

You count that two solution skills? I think they are QoL skills, drying rack doesn't only drys monster meat but also normal meats which is very convenient, and treats is to solve the already in exist problem of hunger consumption, yet can also do it's work even if there are more hunger problems to come.

Besides, even without these two skills, I still can't see why woby's hunger would be a problem, spiders are like super easy to fight, even pre-skill tree walter can easily destroy a level 1 spider nest alongside all the spiders it spawns which are very common in the very begining of the game. As for later when the spider nest grow to level 2 or 3, you got slingshot and new aoe ammos that can deal with hords of spiders easily, while Wlison can only deal them one by one in the middle of dodging the yellow ones. And please don't count aoe ammoss are solutions skills too, cause aoe ammos have more usages than just killing spiders

It's clear what they meant. They meant that we shouldn't balance these skills around those two skills. Because that would mean that these are unusable without them. Making each of these skills cost two more insight.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, YXukun said:

You count that two solution skills? I think they are QoL skills, drying rack doesn't only drys monster meat but also normal meats which is very convenient, and treats is to solve the already in exist problem of hunger consumption, yet can also do it's work even if there are more hunger problems to come.

Besides, even without these two skills, I still can't see why woby's hunger would be a problem, spiders are like super easy to fight, even pre-skill tree walter can easily destroy a level 1 spider nest alongside all the spiders it spawns which are very common in the very begining of the game. As for later when the spider nest grow to level 2 or 3, you got slingshot and new aoe ammos that can deal with hords of spiders easily, while Wlison can only deal them one by one in the middle of dodging the yellow ones. And please don't count aoe ammoss are solutions skills too, cause aoe ammos have more usages than just killing spiders

flutter strips give more benefits than jerky without the drying process and things like spider glans will be giving you 12 hp per and Walter's campfire stories give 25 sanity per minute at base with the skill if Walter didn't need the treats the portable drying rack would be picked much less even then some people still don't pick the racks.

If you can't see the problem then your simply not playing Walter Woby's will be bleeding hunger and people will simply pass on the skills I don't see Wendy's team spirit skills or aoe having a cost attached either.

[Jakepeng99]

6 hours ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

   Currently, Woby's "retrieving," "foraging," and "deliver" commands require no effort or cost. All you need to do is click a button to achieve functions that many other characters can't perform, or that would cost other characters some resources to do. Moreover, it doesn't make sense that Woby doesn't consume anything while performing these tasks.

• Woby's "retrieving" skill significantly outperforms Wormwood's carrat in every aspect. For a detailed analysis, please refer to my post below.

 

• The "foraging" skill is a resource-gathering ability. In comparison, "Applied Horticulture," which is also a resource-gathering skill, requires the user to additionally consume sanity.

• For such a unique skill like "deliver," it's surprising that Woby doesn't get hungry at all after long-distance travel. Woby should consume hunger based on the distance traveled during these activities.

These skills should not be usable when Woby's hunger is insufficient.

 

 

  现在Woby的“retrieving”，“foraging”，“deliver”指令都无需仍和消耗，只需点一个按钮就可以实现很多角色无法实现和一些角色需要花费代价才能实现的功能。而且woby做这些事什么都不会消耗这也并不合理。

• “retrieving”技能已经在各方面战胜沃姆伍德的carrat了，详细分析看我上面这篇帖子。
• “foraging”技能是一个获取资源的技能，同样作为获取资源的代表“应用园艺学”还需要额外消耗使用者的理智值。
• “deliver”这样独一无二的技能，woby进行往返的长途跋涉居然一点也不饿。Woby应该根据往返的路程长度消耗饱食度

这些技能在woby饱食度不足时应该无法进行。

 

I only agree with the deliver one, the other ones would be gimmicky and annoying with hunger cost.

[Steorra]

2 hours ago, YXukun said:

with the new function that allows you feed her

Tbh this is an extremely important factor which should be rechecked for the hunger balance of Woby.

To force Walter to feed Woby temporarily in the combat is another way to balance his slowing effect. Though I doubt that if it would work for a 99% slowed boss.

[Y0sH]

10 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Tbh this is an extremely important factor which should be rechecked for the hunger balance of Woby.

To force Walter to feed Woby temporarily in the combat is another way to balance his slowing effect. Though I doubt that if it would work for a 99% slowed boss.

What does feeding Woby have to do with a Slingshot ammo type? 

[Bumber64]

Abigail now needs butterflies and rabbits to be killed in order to do anything. You can take a skill that allows MG to be used instead.

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

What does feeding Woby have to do with a Slingshot ammo type? 

Then you have to stop your kiting frequently. Ah. I found this would makes the gameplay being annoying. So I personally don't like it now. But it still could be a potential balance change to the slowing - kiting gameplay.

Though, balance should not making gameplay being annoying.

[Dr. Safety]

I think it's fine. Hunger is only supposed to affect actions that are exclusive to big Woby. Small Woby can do all of those things

[Y0sH]

5 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Then you have to stop your kiting frequently. Ah. I found this would makes the gameplay being annoying. So I personally don't like it now. But it still could be a potential balance change to the slowing - kiting gameplay.

Though, balance should not making gameplay being annoying.

You can also just not use Woby at all while having full access to the slingshot.

[Chewabacca]

Roaming Retriever is leagues slower than the Lazy Forager, and its main benefit is convenience. If it becomes inconvenient, it becomes worthless.

I actually did not know that the drain on Woby while chopping and mining was as low as 2 strikes/1 hunger, because it sure does eat through her hunger bar. I'll keep using it, because right now all I have to deal with besides that is her passive hunger drain and the hunger cost of the dash, but to be at all efficient it requires me to micromanage Woby as it is. If that becomes the case for all the other things she can do, those perks become pains. Reminder that players have reason to keep Woby well-fed besides just keeping her from shrinking down: her speed goes down as her hunger does.

Besides, there's already a cost to all these perks: you have to get off of Woby for a bit to use them. You know, the fastest mount in the game who helps keep you warm through the winter. I'd argue that's enough.

[Catapult 2.0]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Wormwood's carrats collect faster than Woby due to their numbers.

Maxwell's sanity cap cost is non existent as long as you don't summon over the limit as his sanity is a freely regenerating resource. Maxwell has multiple safe methods of getting nightmare fuel and even his codex umbra is far more efficient and it's resource of choice is extremely accessible and non perishable by default. Most of the same advantages apply to the lazy forager which also is very cheap to maintain.

Woby is outdone in nearly every category.

These only demonstrate that each skill has its own strengths, but they are not a reason for Woby to have no cost at all.

The consumption can be very low, but there should be some at least.

[somethin]

I wouldn't mind courier has a hunger cost. Woby is basically running all over the map to drop off stuff for you, so it's pretty logical it should use up hunger. Besides, feeding Woby is a non issue once you get the snack skill and a few drying racks or take the mobile Woby racks.

[Mysterious box]

40 minutes ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

These only demonstrate that each skill has its own strengths, but they are not a reason for Woby to have no cost at all.

The consumption can be very low, but there should be some at least.

The strength of the skills is the lack of a cost adding a cost makes them mediocre meaning Klei would need to buff each skill first.

[Danila6300]

I think Wobi is already doing fine in terms of hunger costs, so there's no need to introduce additional costs. Walter has been underprivileged for so many years, let him shine after this update. 

[Dyzrespect]

So many people on this forum confusing "balance" with "arbitrary inconvenience". Think for two seconds about how horribly unfun the things you're suggesting are, then think for another two seconds about how inconsequential this cost you're imposing actually is.

You're suggesting adding an extra arbitrary investment of stopping at a spider den, farming some meat, feeding Woby one, then going thru the already mildly tedious task of making sure your friend has a compass, making sure Woby has the items you want to send to them in her, making sure your friend is in the same dimension as you, and then making sure your friend is ready to take the shipment. None of this added overhead is hard or "balanced", it is just tedious.

Walter ALREADY WENT THROUGH THIS INANE "wE muSt bALanCe rAnGEd coMBaT oR iT wILL bE tOo OP" loop when he was initially introduced, and lo and behold nobody played him because he was too fair and tedious where he was supposed to be strong, and also too weak where he was arbitrarily made to be weak. This isn't League of Legends guys.

[Catapult 2.0]

11 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

The strength of the skills is the lack of a cost adding a cost makes them mediocre meaning Klei would need to buff each skill first.

Do you think the only advantage of "retrieve" is that it's cheap because "you just need to click a button" to activate it?

Besides the advantages we discussed earlier, compared to Carrat, it can pick up anything other than food; compared to Maxwell's summon, it can follow its owner anywhere instead of being limited to one spot each time; compared to the Lazy Man's Amulet, it doesn't occupy a body slot or an item slot, has a larger working range, and doesn't require going to the Ruins to craft. On top of that, the items retrieved by "retrieve" won't be forced into the player's inventory, making it more controllable.

Based on the above analysis, even without its cost advantage, it is still one of the top skills in its category. If it weren't for its relatively slow speed, it could rank first among similar skills.

All I'm asking for is just a little bit of usage cost for it, something that other similar skills should have, even if it's just a tiny amount.

[YouKnowWho142]

Aren’t you a part of the group that constantly posts about how weak Wendy is? Why do you want other characters to be weaker if you wouldn’t want Wendy to be weaker?

[Catapult 2.0]

19 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Aren’t you a part of the group that constantly posts about how weak Wendy is? Why do you want other characters to be weaker if you wouldn’t want Wendy to be weaker?

You can check out my previous posts. Before I advocated for Wendy, I first spoke up for Walter. In the first month after the test server was launched, I wrote a lot of posts for Walter until his slingshot became as useful as it is now. I can guarantee that more than ten of my suggestions were adopted (even Woby's delivery skill was first proposed by me).

There are still many posts about Walter. You can go through my profile to see them.

I am a full-character player with over 5,000 hours of gameplay. I want every character to be balanced and viable; I don't want any character to be weak. When I felt Walter was already strong enough, I left him and went to help Wendy. Now, I think it's unreasonable that there is no hunger cost, so I'm speaking up about it.

[Steorra]

49 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Aren’t you a part of the group that constantly posts about how weak Wendy is? Why do you want other characters to be weaker if you wouldn’t want Wendy to be weaker?

I'm sorry? So now even we could give a randomly accusation by a fault truth? They are the people who suggested many changes for Walter and Woby, and EVEN many of their suggestions of Walter got adopted. 

How a Walter main become a member of "Wendy players" here? It seems our discussion ambience here started becoming more weird and unfairness.

[Blue Tangerine]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Aren’t you a part of the group that constantly posts about how weak Wendy is? Why do you want other characters to be weaker if you wouldn’t want Wendy to be weaker?

Perhaps it's because Walter is too strong now?

[Mysterious box]

15 hours ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

Do you think the only advantage of "retrieve" is that it's cheap because "you just need to click a button" to activate it?

Besides the advantages we discussed earlier, compared to Carrat, it can pick up anything other than food; compared to Maxwell's summon, it can follow its owner anywhere instead of being limited to one spot each time; compared to the Lazy Man's Amulet, it doesn't occupy a body slot or an item slot, has a larger working range, and doesn't require going to the Ruins to craft. On top of that, the items retrieved by "retrieve" won't be forced into the player's inventory, making it more controllable.

Based on the above analysis, even without its cost advantage, it is still one of the top skills in its category. If it weren't for its relatively slow speed, it could rank first among similar skills.

All I'm asking for is just a little bit of usage cost for it, something that other similar skills should have, even if it's just a tiny amount.

Yes compare the collection speed of the 4 carrats to 1 Woby  you might be surprised and that's before combat as even down to butterflies scares her making her unable to act she also regularly plays animations where she'll lie on her back or sit down for a breather further extending the time taken to collect your loot if your comparing her to other collection abilities she's one of the worst at her job as often you'll have to stop and wait for her if you plan to rely on her.

So you might say then just help her collect the items right? Well if I'm paying skill points and a hunger cost on top of that I shouldn't need to if you want the skill to cost something then it needs to be as effective at the job as Wormwood's carrats or Maxwell's minions. The Lazy forager only needs to be equipped momentarily and it does it's job fast, poly doesn't slack off, Maxwell's minions don't slack off, they're fast, and they're extremely cheap, and they don't cost skill and no going to the ruins to use the lazy forager is not a valid excuse for why it has to be better.

If you want to add a hunger cost then we need a performance boost and efficiency on the level of Maxwell or Wormwood no cost per item but a single cost for a set period of time and collection speed on par with the former two characters because otherwise what your doing turns it into a bad skill because you're looking at the benefits while completely ignoring all the faults of the skill.

[Catuna_]

15 hours ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

Besides the advantages we discussed earlier, compared to Carrat, it can pick up anything other than food; compared to Maxwell's summon, it can follow its owner anywhere instead of being limited to one spot each time; compared to the Lazy Man's Amulet, it doesn't occupy a body slot or an item slot, has a larger working range, and doesn't require going to the Ruins to craft. On top of that, the items retrieved by "retrieve" won't be forced into the player's inventory, making it more controllable.

carrats are just bad i dont get comparing a perfectly fine perk to an underpowered perk, nobody was picking carrats unless they wanted lightbugs.

compared to maxwell, woby is a lot less fast, and can't work nearly as efficiently as literally one worker

compared to the lazy forager, woby is STILL slower and doesn't always move the way you'd want her to, sometimes she will alternate between differnet items in different locations making her far slower than she has to be.

15 hours ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

If it weren't for its relatively slow speed, it could rank first among similar skills.

so doesn't that just make it perfectly fine? this seems rather contradictory...
a hunger penalty adds nothing to the character, picking up items isn't overpowered come on now T_T

[Chewabacca]

Not gonna lie I was not expecting "the skill that lets Woby automatically pick up items instead of having the player pick them up and transfer them to her is overpowered and needs a cost". Literally all the skill is doing is saving maybe 3 clicks. It doesn't decrease the difficulty of the game, it doesn't make life much more convenient as it is, and it certainly doesn't beat the Lazy Forager's sheer speed. Make this have a hunger cost and it becomes more trouble than it's worth.

[Walrusst]

The net result of doing all this cost adding would either just be walter builds a bunny/spider grinder and ignores the cost, or walter players get even more addicted to riding woby and never use the skills that require you to dismount.

• Like, the double forage skill sounds amazing, but it only really makes sense if you are building an orchard for 6+ players because after a few minutes with the shovel, a 5 day boat trip, or otherwise and you have more of these resources then you typically can use otherwise. It only makes sense if you commit to an baseless playstyle or are providing for a giant team since its normal to hit levels of food where only bundling wraps can prevent mass spoilage once you can relocate resources. Wickerbottoms books can make stuff like dragonfruit and potatoes which are pretty great, meanwhile bannanas anyone can have in walter quantities by just spending an extra two days on moon quay, and a short mine on lunar isle can get you permanent stone fruits and anenemies (Anenemies being able to mob grind even stuff like ruins bishops in case you want to automatically clear the ruins on refresh.)
• Not to mention, small secret, if you just relocate enough standard resources like berries to your base world renewal does the rest.

 

• Roaming retriever maybe saves 7% time if you don't ride woby, but its barely useful if you don't tame a beefalo because it requires you to go slowly to use it. Walking slowly has a time cost.

 

• The woby locks already going to cause riots with some people, don't make it harder for me to give players resources that woby stole with retriever while I wasn't looking.

Helping horns on the other hands a great candidate for a food cost because it makes feeding woby useful for people who have beefalo, since it does do the job of a pickaxe/axe which is a cost for normal character. So its a speed/twigs saving for a resource thats abundant, commonly needed, and time consuming to gather.

Letting passives be passives when they are small, high point cost, or unique is fine. We don't need to add stingers as ammo for the offensive uses of wormwoods bramble explosions when he kites properly, a croc pot recipie to woodies idols to use curse embracer, or a beardhair cost to willows controlled burns.

[Thieta]

On 2/16/2025 at 2:55 AM, Mysterious box said:

Fair enough let's make Wendy's basket cost a 4 skill point investment.

instead of deflecting and bringing up someone irrelevant - focus on the conversation at hand. Manipulation like this ain't appreciated.

 

As it stands, Woby has gotten insanely strong - Both for new players and veteran players, While this is extremely good! it also ends up trivializing some of the more difficult aspects of don't starve together.

Don't starve together is - By all means - A more hardcore survival game, You lose all your items on death and there are entities that steal said items, etc.
Having woby allows you to explore a dangerous area and then immediately and very easily get whatever you want from it without any kind of cost... This is simply just bad game design, It gets rid of a core mechanic of don't starve together and makes it completely avoidable without any cost from the player except a few skill points... It's simply busted.

With woby there is no fear or worry about getting gear back, Take a scenario where you are trapped in a failed ruins rush - You don't have any meat to feed woby to go into big form, You're going to starve to death soon, and you're at one hit from any of the ruins monsters... But rightnow you are in a safe corner that allows you to think... Now if you are wortox you can teleport away... If you still have souls, A resource - Other characters like wigfrid could maybe get some small healing if she had valor, Etc - I can list any character but they all have a COST to their unique ways to get out...

Now enters... Walter... He is in the corner and thinking on what to do... So what does he do? He puts his items in Woby and sends her to base... then waits 5 seconds and does it again... Rinse and repeat until he has emptied his entire inventory - Now the items are sitting back in base OR at another player in a safe known location. Now all walter has to do is die, Go to a resurrection stone, have another player revive him, or meat effigy - Walter gets revived and he has all his items already, Nothing was lost by monsters and he doesn't have to expend time/resources to travel back to the ruins (Hopefully better prepared this time) and get them back...

This is insanely OP and it ruins the gameplay experience of a CORE aspect of don't starve together - ALL FOR NO COST.

Woby needs to have a limit so that way, Walter can only send back 1 pack of items to base - Either an extremely long cooldown or an immense hunger cost, Woby should take a solid 70% of hunger to TRAVEL ANYWHERE ON THE MAP and store whatever items you have - This forces walter to expend resources for this kind of buff and prevents it from being absurdly broken, Aslong as he has prepared resources he can save his items (Woby snacks are very easy to get and this puts him at wortox levels of safety/escape aslong as he prepares) however this also punishes players who don't prepare and store snacks, Can cost greedy players everything (Or almost everything), and fleshes out very nicely with her kit.

21 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Aren’t you a part of the group that constantly posts about how weak Wendy is? Why do you want other characters to be weaker if you wouldn’t want Wendy to be weaker?

Deflection and manipulation.

 

On 2/16/2025 at 8:14 AM, Debruh said:

Though, considering most of this user's posts have been raging about Wendy. I wouldn't be suprised if nerfing Walter is like the next big thing for them. (Lmao as I was writing this a reply above me got written, which or course rages a bit about how Wortox's lunar one is op, and how cure-all on Wraith's Wreath is weak)

Deflection and manipulation.

 

On 2/16/2025 at 9:07 AM, Natsuki Bamboo said:

These only demonstrate that each skill has its own strengths, but they are not a reason for Woby to have no cost at all.

The consumption can be very low, but there should be some at least.

 

Very agreed

 

On 2/16/2025 at 9:56 AM, Danila6300 said:

I think Wobi is already doing fine in terms of hunger costs, so there's no need to introduce additional costs. Walter has been underprivileged for so many years, let him shine after this update. 

Just cause a character was bad previously is not a valid reason for them to be genuinely gamebreaking. Noone should be able to "Shine" by ignoring core aspects of the game...

 

On 2/16/2025 at 10:14 AM, Dyzrespect said:

You're suggesting adding an extra arbitrary investment of stopping at a spider den, farming some meat, feeding Woby one, then going thru the already mildly tedious task of making sure your friend has a compass, making sure Woby has the items you want to send to them in her, making sure your friend is in the same dimension as you, and then making sure your friend is ready to take the shipment. None of this added overhead is hard or "balanced", it is just tedious.

This is all making it seem unnecessarily complicated when the reality is it's not even tedious to do... "making sure woby has the items you want to send to them in her" made me laugh ngl lol,

 

20 hours ago, Blue Tangerine said:

Perhaps it's because Walter is too strong now?

unhelpful.