Why is Wendy's design so bad but she is still being weakened?/为什么温蒂的设计本来就那么差劲了还要削弱她?

[Picklesaurus]

2 hours ago, DaDa_waw said:

No matter how many chicken feathers you stack for a skill point, it's not enough to be compared to a cotton quilt.
Woodie only needs 3 skill points to strengthen herself for 80% of the duration of 3 transformations. Each of the 3 transformations has extremely comprehensive reinforcement, and the moose even gains 15 points of positional defense while possessing 90% of its own. At the same time, the third attack has positional damage correction, originally 136, and even corrected to 146.6 when resisting face-to-face entities. However, this is just the tip of the iceberg in Woodie's functionality.
Even the most meticulous carpenter can use one skill point to reduce the material consumption of wooden boards by 25%. Who can replace it?
The more you speak, the less persuasive your viewpoint becomes. Try to learn more.

I don't want my Wendy skill tree to be like Woodie's, Woodie's late game sucks. When I played Woodie I stopped using Werebeaver as soon as I noticed using Lucy was better early game because I didn't need to waste monster meat, hunger and sanity to turn into werebeaver if I could use lucy which is much better especially early game since there is a chace to spawn treeguards with her so that I can get living logs and by mid game there are better wood gathering methods than Werebeaver.  Weregoose I stopped using as soon I would tame a beefalo.

So he is left with Weremoose, which is good pre rift but this is what happens to Weremoose during rift content:

Currently all of mastery Weremoose's planar damage is located on his third hit, this makes his damage to planar enemies extremely backloaded - 66% of his total damage to planar  enemies becomes dependent on the third hit - which combined with his third hit getting reseted to his normal punch if you can't get it in - which happens frequently with moose's slower attack  speed and how it affects how many hits he can get in between enemy attacks - makes his damage to planar enemies unrelable and extremely hard to proc any boss stun state that depends on dealing planar damage.

Weremoose damage distribution in percentage to non planar enemies:  23,3% + 23,3% + 53,3%
  > He deals about half his damage on the first two normal punches and the other half of his damage on the  third hit of the combo, this distribution of damage is reliable, it feels good to use, you still feel like you are making progress even if you can't get the third hit in.

Weremoose damage distribution in percentage to planar enemies: 16,9% + 16,9% + 66,2%
 > he deals 1/3 of his damage on the first two normal punches and 2/3 of it on the third hit, this feels akward, punishing and overall extremely bad.

As an example, because of how all his planar damage is backloaded and how planar entity defense reduces  his normal  punches damage  from 59,5 to 37,5 , whenever he can't  get the third hit in a planar enemy his DPS falls from 138,7 to 70,3 which is less than lance  DPS. Every other planar damage tool implemented with skill trees or gear have a nice combination of normal damage + planar damage  or flat planar damage on every damage stance they are used exactly to avoid this situation and to allow the player to have a  reliably way to trigger bosses stun states that depend on dealing planar damage in a especif small window of time to the boss. The current implementation of planar damage on Weremoose encourages me to tank Lunar Varg for example, not because I don't like dodging, but because I can't proc his stun state unless I'm tanking and even then I can't proc it most of the time but I might as well just tank it to be able to get  the third hit in instead of kiting/dodging and only being able to hit him for less than lance dps most of the time.

Why do you keep comparing Wendy and Woodie? Woodie is only good at rushing early game, he has no game progression to his perks. Would you like for all Wendy perks to be strong early game just to become niche or useless by late game like it happens to Woodie? I don't want that to Wendy, I would like to use her perks late game as well. 

[PunkShark]

23 minutes ago, DaDa_waw said:

If there seems to be a good momentum for speaking, then take a good look at your opinions on these contents

The previous article had a lot of outdated content, but it's still sufficient. These few articles are new

 

 

You just need to tell me, 'Will they be more interesting than they are now?' That's enough

They are here, I don't think they are perfect, but I think they are more interesting than they are now. Since you wish to see it, I sincerely recommend it to you

Okay so, since there is a lot to read here i didn't entirely understood the gist of everything into a compact idea as a whole. But it does seem a lot of it is related to pipspooks? And the quest and interaction to get mourning glories. Overall this doesn't seem like an issue regarding Abi herself. At least that's what im getting from all of this.
While i think there could've been more interesting ways to get glories. (i will say i like the idea of addorned graves around the sisturn produces mourning glories) i just don't really think it necessary?

I think partly why pipspook quests is considered a slog is due to the history of it and wanting something "new" and "exciting" and this is why some want it to be different so it isn't just the ol same boring quest mechanic. But now with the large amount of glories i just don't overall see the reason to do all of this instead, personally. Rn it seems boring, but i don't think this mindset will forlorn forever, give it a few months or so and then we ca

Pipspook followers just kind of feel odd to me cause they're just souls of children and just wanting to move on, which is why you do these quests to begin with. So having them as followers just kind of goes against this idea that you're trying to help them. But you could use the bigspooks for smth like this instead i suppose. But, again idk i just dont think its required and goes against Wendy and Abi's dynamic.

Idk i'm just getting a lot of mixed signals here. She's weak, she's boring, but all around it just feels like an issue centered on pipspooks and glories? You gotta help me out here.

[DaDa_waw]

16 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

Okay so, since there is a lot to read here i didn't entirely understood the gist of everything into a compact idea as a whole. But it does seem a lot of it is related to pipspooks? And the quest and interaction to get mourning glories. Overall this doesn't seem like an issue regarding Abi herself. At least that's what im getting from all of this.
While i think there could've been more interesting ways to get glories. (i will say i like the idea of addorned graves around the sisturn produces mourning glories) i just don't really think it necessary?

I think partly why pipspook quests is considered a slog is due to the history of it and wanting something "new" and "exciting" and this is why some want it to be different so it isn't just the ol same boring quest mechanic. But now with the large amount of glories i just don't overall see the reason to do all of this instead, personally. Rn it seems boring, but i don't think this mindset will forlorn forever, give it a few months or so and then we ca

Pipspook followers just kind of feel odd to me cause they're just souls of children and just wanting to move on, which is why you do these quests to begin with. So having them as followers just kind of goes against this idea that you're trying to help them. But you could use the bigspooks for smth like this instead i suppose. But, again idk i just dont think its required and goes against Wendy and Abi's dynamic.

Idk i'm just getting a lot of mixed signals here. She's weak, she's boring, but all around it just feels like an issue centered on pipspooks and glories? You gotta help me out here.

I really want to discuss these in detail, but in my place of residence, it's 2:30 in the morning. If you don't mind and are willing to communicate, I will talk to you about these at a relatively better time. Thank you.

20 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

I don't want my Wendy skill tree to be like Woodie's, Woodie's late game sucks. When I played Woodie I stopped using Werebeaver as soon as I noticed using Lucy was better early game because I didn't need to waste monster meat, hunger and sanity to turn into werebeaver if I could use lucy which is much better especially early game since there is a chace to spawn treeguards with her so that I can get living logs and by mid game there are better wood gathering methods than Werebeaver.  Weregoose I stopped using as soon I would tame a beefalo.

So he is left with Weremoose, which is good pre rift but this is what happens to Weremoose during rift content:

Currently all of mastery Weremoose's planar damage is located on his third hit, this makes his damage to planar enemies extremely backloaded - 66% of his total damage to planar  enemies becomes dependent on the third hit - which combined with his third hit getting reseted to his normal punch if you can't get it in - which happens frequently with moose's slower attack  speed and how it affects how many hits he can get in between enemy attacks - makes his damage to planar enemies unrelable and extremely hard to proc any boss stun state that depends on dealing planar damage.

Weremoose damage distribution in percentage to non planar enemies:  23,3% + 23,3% + 53,3%
  > He deals about half his damage on the first two normal punches and the other half of his damage on the  third hit of the combo, this distribution of damage is reliable, it feels good to use, you still feel like you are making progress even if you can't get the third hit in.

Weremoose damage distribution in percentage to planar enemies: 16,9% + 16,9% + 66,2%
 > he deals 1/3 of his damage on the first two normal punches and 2/3 of it on the third hit, this feels akward, punishing and overall extremely bad.

As an example, because of how all his planar damage is backloaded and how planar entity defense reduces  his normal  punches damage  from 59,5 to 37,5 , whenever he can't  get the third hit in a planar enemy his DPS falls from 138,7 to 70,3 which is less than lance  DPS. Every other planar damage tool implemented with skill trees or gear have a nice combination of normal damage + planar damage  or flat planar damage on every damage stance they are used exactly to avoid this situation and to allow the player to have a  reliably way to trigger bosses stun states that depend on dealing planar damage in a especif small window of time to the boss. The current implementation of planar damage on Weremoose encourages me to tank Lunar Varg for example, not because I don't like dodging, but because I can't proc his stun state unless I'm tanking and even then I can't proc it most of the time but I might as well just tank it to be able to get  the third hit in instead of kiting/dodging and only being able to hit him for less than lance dps most of the time.

Why do you keep comparing Wendy and Woodie? Woodie is only good at rushing early game, he has no game progression to his perks. Would you like for all Wendy perks to be strong early game just to become niche or useless by late game like it happens to Woodie? I don't want that to Wendy.

It seems that we all hope to have a more interesting gaming experience. If you are willing and don't mind waiting, I will also discuss it with you. Thank you

[DaDa_waw]

12 hours ago, PunkShark said:

Okay so, since there is a lot to read here i didn't entirely understood the gist of everything into a compact idea as a whole. But it does seem a lot of it is related to pipspooks? And the quest and interaction to get mourning glories. Overall this doesn't seem like an issue regarding Abi herself. At least that's what im getting from all of this.
While i think there could've been more interesting ways to get glories. (i will say i like the idea of addorned graves around the sisturn produces mourning glories) i just don't really think it necessary?

I think partly why pipspook quests is considered a slog is due to the history of it and wanting something "new" and "exciting" and this is why some want it to be different so it isn't just the ol same boring quest mechanic. But now with the large amount of glories i just don't overall see the reason to do all of this instead, personally. Rn it seems boring, but i don't think this mindset will forlorn forever, give it a few months or so and then we ca

Pipspook followers just kind of feel odd to me cause they're just souls of children and just wanting to move on, which is why you do these quests to begin with. So having them as followers just kind of goes against this idea that you're trying to help them. But you could use the bigspooks for smth like this instead i suppose. But, again idk i just dont think its required and goes against Wendy and Abi's dynamic.

Idk i'm just getting a lot of mixed signals here. She's weak, she's boring, but all around it just feels like an issue centered on pipspooks and glories? You gotta help me out here.

Firstly, regarding the question of "why many of these suggestions are non Abigail".

Before that, I hope you can have a sensory evaluation of these proposals, which is an "interesting evaluation"/"Will they be more interesting compared to the current ones" (a more comprehensive one is in the first article). They need numerical adjustments, but as we all know, design direction takes priority over design values.

Then let's get to the point. If you look at these articles from the perspective of their purpose, you will find that they are all about "how to make an optimized compromise on the skill tree currently provided by KLei".Yes, I don't completely deny that these contents are actually not good enough, because the current KLei skill tree gives me the same feeling. The purpose of these articles is to provide suggestions for Wendy's skill tree as much as possible without changing the overall framework,

but as you can see, within the framework of KLei's skill tree, You will feel this' off topic feeling '.

Even though the themes of these articles are all about "optimization and compromise", in KLei's latest update, there is not even a hint of connection to these "optimizations and compromises". On the contrary, in terms of gameplay, KLei is only obsessed with adjusting numerical values in an attempt to solve problems, rather than focusing on expansion/optimization. This is clearly disappointing, as everyone has been proposing compromises like this here for many months, and what we are waiting for now is the result.

 

Secondly, if your idea is actually more inclined, take a look at the "Wendy Skill Tree Update Ideas I Want". I also have ideas that are more in line with the question.

I am also a player who has been in contact with DS for nearly a decade, and Wendy is the one I use the most. I will focus on 'Abigail' as you said.In addition to some improvement in combat effectiveness, I would like Abigail to have more functions in life, such as "taking care of crops" (mentioned in the check lines), "being moved" (similar to a sisters playing), and so on. I would also like Wendy to have poetry content (although I haven't figured it out yet). As you all know, Wendy mentioned many literary works multiple times during the dialogue check and mentioned nostalgic poetry collections when checking the bookshelf.Then, I also hope that the potion can have more diverse gameplay. Although this setting seems to be newly introduced in DST, I also hope it can be more interesting than before. The previous one was actually quite boring, and I mentioned improvement methods in my previous article to you.I will also recommend some posts here to help you understand my thoughts, and I hope we can actively communicate

 

 

 

 

 

Many of them may also be imperfect, but as I mentioned earlier, this is a showcase of ideas

[DaDa_waw]

13 hours ago, Picklesaurus said:

I don't want my Wendy skill tree to be like Woodie's, Woodie's late game sucks. When I played Woodie I stopped using Werebeaver as soon as I noticed using Lucy was better early game because I didn't need to waste monster meat, hunger and sanity to turn into werebeaver if I could use lucy which is much better especially early game since there is a chace to spawn treeguards with her so that I can get living logs and by mid game there are better wood gathering methods than Werebeaver.  Weregoose I stopped using as soon I would tame a beefalo.

So he is left with Weremoose, which is good pre rift but this is what happens to Weremoose during rift content:

Currently all of mastery Weremoose's planar damage is located on his third hit, this makes his damage to planar enemies extremely backloaded - 66% of his total damage to planar  enemies becomes dependent on the third hit - which combined with his third hit getting reseted to his normal punch if you can't get it in - which happens frequently with moose's slower attack  speed and how it affects how many hits he can get in between enemy attacks - makes his damage to planar enemies unrelable and extremely hard to proc any boss stun state that depends on dealing planar damage.

Weremoose damage distribution in percentage to non planar enemies:  23,3% + 23,3% + 53,3%
> He deals about half his damage on the first two normal punches and the other half of his damage on the  third hit of the combo, this distribution of damage is reliable, it feels good to use, you still feel like you are making progress even if you can't get the third hit in.

Weremoose damage distribution in percentage to planar enemies: 16,9% + 16,9% + 66,2%
> he deals 1/3 of his damage on the first two normal punches and 2/3 of it on the third hit, this feels akward, punishing and overall extremely bad.

As an example, because of how all his planar damage is backloaded and how planar entity defense reduces  his normal  punches damage  from 59,5 to 37,5 , whenever he can't  get the third hit in a planar enemy his DPS falls from 138,7 to 70,3 which is less than lance  DPS. Every other planar damage tool implemented with skill trees or gear have a nice combination of normal damage + planar damage  or flat planar damage on every damage stance they are used exactly to avoid this situation and to allow the player to have a  reliably way to trigger bosses stun states that depend on dealing planar damage in a especif small window of time to the boss. The current implementation of planar damage on Weremoose encourages me to tank Lunar Varg for example, not because I don't like dodging, but because I can't proc his stun state unless I'm tanking and even then I can't proc it most of the time but I might as well just tank it to be able to get  the third hit in instead of kiting/dodging and only being able to hit him for less than lance dps most of the time.

Why do you keep comparing Wendy and Woodie? Woodie is only good at rushing early game, he has no game progression to his perks. Would you like for all Wendy perks to be strong early game just to become niche or useless by late game like it happens to Woodie? I don't want that to Wendy, I would like to use her perks late game as well.

As you mentioned

Woodie's characteristic is "adapting to the early stage", and I have my own idea about it, which is "ultimate cost-effectiveness".

You can indeed hold all the highest level items and say that Woodie's transformation is not very impressive.

But in fact, his cost-effectiveness is absolutely top-notch.

Geese can allow you to explore all important blocks on the first day

The benchmark equipment for Camel Deer is thulium armor+thulium rod+15 face defense and third strike 80 face correction+no cost charge AOE+129.6 health recovery. (This attribute is actually still much higher than the equipment on the defensive side)

They only need 3 monster meats and 2 miscellaneous items.

This means that you can obtain equipment and efficiency second only to the highest level in this game at the cheapest cost. (There are also common items such as wooden crutches and wooden helmets)

If you carefully review the skill tree, you will find that even if the situation really reaches a point where the moose cannot solve it (although this situation has not yet occurred in the crack stage), the Woody skill tree still provides a second path - the tree man. The tree man is clumsy, but he ignores all strong enemies. Even enemies stronger than the moose are ignored by the tree man. The position of the strong enemies is fixed, or you can tow them. The tree man helps you solve almost everything that the moose cannot do. Due to their own falling objects, you can almost simply use the moose to charge in Ruins to get all the startup funds and even make a profit.

By the way, in the crevice environment, apart from the armored bear, all other enemies of the moose can be defeated by holding down F. I don't quite understand what you're not satisfied with, do you need me to introduce some ideas to you?

In summary, Woody's skill tree not only showcases his original characteristics to the fullest, but also provides him with

Carpenter - Practical Team Assistance

Tree people - help beyond abilities

affinity - the perfect remedy for weaknesses

The skill tree definitely gave him the ability to secure a place among all characters. However, Wendy's current skill tree cannot achieve this at all, and it can even be said that Wendy's skill tree is not even fun.There are even many optimization problems that have not yet been addressed

[Catapult 2.0]

23 hours ago, DaDa_waw said:

As you mentioned

Woodie's characteristic is "adapting to the early stage", and I have my own idea about it, which is "ultimate cost-effectiveness".

You can indeed hold all the highest level items and say that Woodie's transformation is not very impressive.

But in fact, his cost-effectiveness is absolutely top-notch.

Geese can allow you to explore all important blocks on the first day

The benchmark equipment for Camel Deer is thulium armor+thulium rod+15 face defense and third strike 80 face correction+no cost charge AOE+129.6 health recovery. (This attribute is actually still much higher than the equipment on the defensive side)

They only need 3 monster meats and 2 miscellaneous items.

This means that you can obtain equipment and efficiency second only to the highest level in this game at the cheapest cost. (There are also common items such as wooden crutches and wooden helmets)

If you carefully review the skill tree, you will find that even if the situation really reaches a point where the moose cannot solve it (although this situation has not yet occurred in the crack stage), the Woody skill tree still provides a second path - the tree man. The tree man is clumsy, but he ignores all strong enemies. Even enemies stronger than the moose are ignored by the tree man. The position of the strong enemies is fixed, or you can tow them. The tree man helps you solve almost everything that the moose cannot do. Due to their own falling objects, you can almost simply use the moose to charge in Ruins to get all the startup funds and even make a profit.

By the way, in the crevice environment, apart from the armored bear, all other enemies of the moose can be defeated by holding down F. I don't quite understand what you're not satisfied with, do you need me to introduce some ideas to you?

In summary, Woody's skill tree not only showcases his original characteristics to the fullest, but also provides him with

Carpenter - Practical Team Assistance

Tree people - help beyond abilities

affinity - the perfect remedy for weaknesses

The skill tree definitely gave him the ability to secure a place among all characters. However, Wendy's current skill tree cannot achieve this at all, and it can even be said that Wendy's skill tree is not even fun.There are even many optimization problems that have not yet been addressed

  这个帖子下面的辩论就很好得展示对于温蒂争论的写照，当有玩家说温蒂“too strong”时，他们只会给出一些预设他们的结论，其中掺杂着谎言，但他们不去与其他角色横向比较来论证他们的观点，而是等待你的反驳等你来论证温蒂不够“strong”。而当你分析比较论证你的观点后，他们又会提出“定位不同为什么要比较角色”，“是不是想让温蒂成为沃尔夫冈”，“中国玩家为什么这么偏爱温蒂”等观点来转移话题。

[ColdHeaven]

On 1/26/2025 at 2:13 PM, DaDa_waw said:

By the way, in the crevice environment, apart from the armored bear, all other enemies of the moose can be defeated by holding down F. I don't quite understand what you're not satisfied with, do you need me to introduce some ideas to you?

this is all you guys need to know.
this is blatant trolling, and if it isn't trolling it's something just as bad.
you guys will never be able to convince wendy people

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

this is all you guys need to know.
this is blatant trolling, and if it isn't trolling it's something just as bad.
you guys will never be able to convince wendy people that wendy is anything but wes with a ghost

I have no idea what meaning of the simple accusations without any evidence for the argument here. Was I'm in the beta branch but not slander branch?

[somethin]

All I get from this thread is that people who is still complaining about Wendy is talking about ways to get mourning glories while ignoring every other aspects of her skills, painting them as completely useless for some reason.
Oh well, you can't please endless human greed.
Meanwhile, despite weeks of no updates Wortox and Walter still got no changes whatsoever when they have even bigger issues with knapsack and Woby.
I'm really starting to believe this is just the Wendy beta at this point.

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, somethin said:

Meanwhile, despite weeks of no updates Wortox and Walter still got no changes whatsoever when they have even bigger issues with knapsack and Woby.
I'm really starting to believe this is just the Wendy beta at this point.

Devs had clarified that all of three characters here were working in parallel.

If they were not. No one have to take responsibility for it but only devs.

No need to say the voices of "make Wendy simply quit the current beta" was always here.

[DaDa_waw]

2 hours ago, ColdHeaven said:

this is all you guys need to know.
this is blatant trolling, and if it isn't trolling it's something just as bad.
you guys will never be able to convince wendy people

Your words seem to be incoherent, and I cannot distinguish what you are trying to express. Even the person I replied to did not provide feedback. What is the purpose of you rudely inserting this discussion and expressing confusing opinions, stirring up trouble? Intensify the discussion? I hope to see your reasons

2 hours ago, somethin said:

 painting them as completely useless for some reason.

The answer lies in the answer, isn't it?

2 hours ago, somethin said:

Oh well, you can't please endless human greed.

People write tens of thousands of suggestions, and you will only argue from the perspective of non players that KLei cannot do his job well. You are doing something extremely arrogant, as a troublemaker

[somethin]

15 hours ago, DaDa_waw said:

The answer lies in the answer, isn't it?

I don't know what to tell you, but do you truly think they are? If so, I retract everything I said. I have no words left to express disappointment in people anymore.

15 hours ago, DaDa_waw said:

You are doing something extremely arrogant, as a troublemaker

I consider this as a compliment, coming from people who is doing the same thing on this forum

[Echsrick]

26 minutes ago, somethin said:

I don't know what to tell you, but do you truly think they are? If so, I retract everything I said. I have no words left to express disappointment in people anymore.

I consider this as a compliment, coming from people who is doing the same thing on this forum

there is just no point in even trying to have a discussion with certain people, i simply suggest the ignore function because this all just goin into an endless circle of argoin over absolutly nothing or "that person is bad""no that person is bad" nonsense, it will never end by trying to come to an end of an discussion, and its sad that it is the thing and state of this forum at this point, that no one can have a normal disscussion anymore without someone showing up and starting to.....i dont even know anymore what to call all this, it realy makes me sad that this all happend how it is here and feel bad for the devs and moderators and who ever else got drafted into this here only wanting to discuss an update in the beta

[Koomin]

18 hours ago, Steorra said:

Devs had clarified that all of three characters here were working in parallel.

If they were not. No one have to take responsibility for it but only devs.

No need to say the voices of "make Wendy simply quit the current beta" was always here.

This was an intentionally misleading statement that they made.  They said that separate teams work on each character, but not that each team is spending the same amount of time or is even still assigned to fully work on that character.  It’s pretty clear that they assigned Wendy’s team to keep working on Wendy, and have assigned Wortox’s team to future updates (like probably year of the snake and the next one ).  He has received barely any changes in months.  Walter’s tree is still half finished.

At this point, Wendy has gotten by far more than her fair share of love and attention, and Wendy’s team should be assigned to future updates instead, while Wortox’s and Walters are assigned to fix the sizable problems left with their skill trees.  Walter and Wortox players have left calm and normal feedback for months and only received update after update about Wendy.

[DaDa_waw]

43 minutes ago, somethin said:

I don't know what to tell you, but do you truly think they are? If so, I retract everything I said. I have no words left to express disappointment in people anymore.

I consider this as a compliment, coming from people who is doing the same thing on this forum

You can find a considerable amount of detailed answers in this post alone, let alone elsewhere. However, if you choose to ignore all of this and insist on burying your head in disappointment or sand, I don't care. I have already done enough, but you still have a long way to go.

6 minutes ago, Koomin said:

This was an intentionally misleading statement that they made.  They said that separate teams work on each character, but not that each team is spending the same amount of time or is even still assigned to fully work on that character.It’s pretty clear that they assigned Wendy’s team to keep working on Wendy, and have assigned Wortox’s team to future updates (like probably year of the snake and the next one ).  He has received barely any changes in months.  Walter’s tree is still half finished.

At this point, Wendy has gotten by far more than her fair share of love and attention, and Wendy’s team should be assigned to future updates instead, while Wortox’s and Walters are assigned to fix the sizable problems left with their skill trees.  Walter and Wortox players have left calm and normal feedback for months and only received update after update about Wendy.

It sounds like a comprehensive speculation, but there is no actual proof. But if you are willing to appeal for the skill trees of the other two characters, I support you. The reason why I don't do it may be because I feel it's enough, or it may be because I don't understand. In summary, advocating for player benefits from KLei is always worth encouraging.

[Steorra]

On 1/26/2025 at 2:04 AM, Picklesaurus said:

Woodie is only good at rushing early game,

Not true for me. For post-rift, the most frequently enemies which need to engage is inkers and brightshades. Weremoose could easily reveal the rictus, dealt with trios, and the most effective advantage is to clean brightshades, which the brightshades are the most annoying things in the end game. 

And I have to say, weremoose has no obvious downside in endgame for experienced players. It could dealt with all fightings in endgame with the cheapest cost. That's why Woodie is still a good character for experienced players.

21 minutes ago, Koomin said:

He has received barely any changes in months.  Walter’s tree is still half finished.

This is same for codes of Wendy. For the latest patch, the most works were finished by artists but not by those who should work for design and balance. You should consider this as the reason of why Wendy players feeling angry with the latest patch, but not to turn your emotions from Klei to other players. Player should never take responsibility for the decisions Klei had made.

And no need to say OMEGA already told you the beta test is just a deal of Klei.

[Koomin]

59 minutes ago, DaDa_waw said:

It sounds like a comprehensive speculation, but there is no actual proof. But if you are willing to appeal for the skill trees of the other two characters, I support you. The reason why I don't do it may be because I feel it's enough, or it may be because I don't understand. In summary, advocating for player benefits from KLei is always worth encouraging.

The proof is that the only changes to Wortox in 2 months have been having neutral skills count toward unlocking locks, and having affinity skills count toward naughty or nice alignments.  There is absolutely no way that a team of people have spent two months on that, so it is pretty clear that they are working on other stuff (unless they have a big update they are about to release for Wortox, which I doubt since they only talked last week about Wendy and Walter changes coming.)

Klei only has limited employees, and likely cannot leave all 3 teams working on skill trees.  Wendy has taken the full time herself over and over again, and it is time for her team to move on and allow Wortox and Walter to get some things fixed. Wortox has skills that do absolutely nothing like soul decoy 2 or are really problematic like cloudy Carmen, and has a number of problems people have pointed out for months, which is a way worse spot to be in than Wendy.

[Peasant]

6 minutes ago, Koomin said:

The proof is that the only changes to Wortox is 2 months have been having neutral skills count toward unlocking locks, and having affinity skills count toward naughty or nice alignments.  There is absolutely no way that a team of people have spent two months on that, so it is pretty clear that they are working on other stuff (unless they have a big update they are about to release for Wortox, which I doubt since they only talked last week about Wendy and Walter changes coming.)

Klei only has limited employees, and likely cannot leave all 3 teams working on skill trees.  Wendy has taken the full time herself over and over again, and it is time for her team to move on and allow Wortox and Walter to get some things fixed. Wortox has skills that do absolutely nothing like soul decoy 2 and has a number of problems people have pointed out for months, which is a way worse spot to be in than Wendy.

Didn't Klei themselves said that all these skilltrees are worked in parallel? I recall they said that to answer someone questioning if they spent too little time and other stuff on Wendy's skilltree. Were they lying?

[Koomin]

6 minutes ago, YXukun said:

Didn't Klei themselves said that all these skilltrees are worked in parallel? I recall they said that to answer someone questioning if they spent too little time and other stuff on Wendy's skilltree. Were they lying?

Review my previous post below.  The summary: they said different teams work on each character. That is true and they didn’t lie, but the reality is that not all of those teams are spending much of their time on those characters.  Wendy’s team is clearly still spending most of their time on the beta, Wortox’s team is working on future updates and little to no time on the beta.  They should be swapped:

1 hour ago, Koomin said:

This was an intentionally misleading statement that they made.  They said that separate teams work on each character, but not that each team is spending the same amount of time or is even still assigned to fully work on that character.  It’s pretty clear that they assigned Wendy’s team to keep working on Wendy, and have assigned Wortox’s team to future updates (like probably year of the snake and the next one ).  He has received barely any changes in months.  Walter’s tree is still half finished.

At this point, Wendy has gotten by far more than her fair share of love and attention, and Wendy’s team should be assigned to future updates instead, while Wortox’s and Walters are assigned to fix the sizable problems left with their skill trees.  Walter and Wortox players have left calm and normal feedback for months and only received update after update about Wendy.

 

[Mike23Ua]

Wendy’s Design isn’t “Bad” she’s designed to do ONE THING. Just like Wolfgang is Designed to also do ONE THING…

But the ONE THING that they do.. they do exceptionally well at (probably the best in the game at what their ONE Role actually is)

And here’s the thing: When Wolfgang got his Skill Tree his skill tree gave him a few minor things he could do OUTSIDE of the ONE THING He’s best at.. small stuff like the dumb coaches whistle but most of his skill tree was all about improving the ONE THING he was intended to do.

Wendy’s skill tree mostly revolves around her ONE THING (Aka better control over, and ease of grinding resources for: Abigail)

So the design isn’t “Bad” or Flawed… some people literally just want her to become a God Tier Demon Slayer and she’s… she just shouldn’t ever be that.

[DaDa_waw]

28 minutes ago, Koomin said:

The proof is that the only changes to Wortox in 2 months have been having neutral skills count toward unlocking locks, and having affinity skills count toward naughty or nice alignments.There is absolutely no way that a team of people have spent two months on that, so it is pretty clear that they are working on other stuff (unless they have a big update they are about to release for Wortox, which I doubt since they only talked last week about Wendy and Walter changes coming.)

Klei only has limited employees, and likely cannot leave all 3 teams working on skill trees.  Wendy has taken the full time herself over and over again, and it is time for her team to move on and allow Wortox and Walter to get some things fixed. Wortox has skills that do absolutely nothing like soul decoy 2 or are really problematic like cloudy Carmen, and has a number of problems people have pointed out for months, which is a way worse spot to be in than Wendy.

I'm afraid this may not support your point, but if KLei thinks they need more time, everyone here will agree. This viewpoint only deliberately shifts the problem from KLei's insufficient ability to player conflicts (even recently there have been many such deliberate statements), which is completely irrational and meaningless, unless you believe that unsatisfactory products should be recognized. I think anyone who hopes the game will become better and better would not want this kind of thing to happen.

[Peasant]

8 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Review my previous post below.  The summary: they said different teams work on each character. That is true and they didn’t lie, but the reality is that not all of those teams are spending much of their time on those characters.  Wendy’s team is clearly still spending most of their time on the beta, Wortox’s team is working on future updates and little to no time on the beta.  They should be swapped:

 

They mentioned that they already let the Wortox team to work on other stuff? God I have been unable to keep up with information… In that case you should post some, what's the word…constructive, yes, some constructive posts to urge them pay more attention to Wortox, instead of involving some argues that won't help Wortox.

[DaDa_waw]

21 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wendy’s Design isn’t “Bad” she’s designed to do ONE THING. Just like Wolfgang is Designed to also do ONE THING…

But the ONE THING that they do.. they do exceptionally well at (probably the best in the game at what their ONE Role actually is)

And here’s the thing: When Wolfgang got his Skill Tree his skill tree gave him a few minor things he could do OUTSIDE of the ONE THING He’s best at.. small stuff like the dumb coaches whistle but most of his skill tree was all about improving the ONE THING he was intended to do.

Wendy’s skill tree mostly revolves around her ONE THING (Aka better control over, and ease of grinding resources for: Abigail)

So the design isn’t “Bad” or Flawed… some people literally just want her to become a God Tier Demon Slayer and she’s… she just shouldn’t ever be that.

Firstly, Wolfgang's skill tree is not popular. That skill tree is simply like a potato, not a tree.

In Wendy's skill tree, only team spirit and potions are related to Abigail, while tombstones, vengeful ghosts sissturn1/2、 Mourning Glory 1/2/3, none of them are what you should know about their proportion.

I replied to you about this last paragraph before, but you avoided it and even the comment seems to have disappeared? However, I don't mind pointing it out again. Don't deliberately demonize and generalize anyone who is also a player to consolidate your own views，Especially with well founded viewpoints in their posts. Wendy fans don't need to do this, all they need is to give suggestions with heart. This is just creating contradictions and has no meaning.

[WenericMember]

On 1/28/2025 at 4:36 PM, DaDa_waw said:

Firstly, Wolfgang's skill tree is not popular. That skill tree is simply like a potato, not a tree.

In Wendy's skill tree, only team spirit and potions are related to Abigail, while tombstones, vengeful ghosts sissturn1/2、 Mourning Glory 1/2/3, none of them are what you should know about their proportion.

I replied to you about this last paragraph before, but you avoided it and even the comment seems to have disappeared? However, I don't mind pointing it out again. Don't deliberately demonize and generalize anyone who is also a player to consolidate your own views，Especially with well founded viewpoints in their posts. Wendy fans don't need to do this, all they need is to give suggestions with heart. This is just creating contradictions and has no meaning.

Meh, I agree with the sentiment that not all of her tree is Abigail and that Wolfgang should not be a goal in design, but Blessed Sisturn 1 & 3 is Abigail QOL, and all her alignment skills are Abigail related.

Mourning Glory should also be considered abigail adjacent at least, as the primary use of MG is potions which are mainly designed for Abigail.

 

[IAmAFurrz]

On 1/24/2025 at 5:01 PM, Dingle said:

Seems like too much of a buff, 2 potions at once. The super elixir was done as a direct response to that request, as a compromise.

Her skill tree seems really, really strong. Probably one of the best in the cast. Maybe even still too free form? She gets a LOT for her insight points.

Vex potion still seems way too strong too.

by the sounds of it OP wants wendy to be changed completely bc 'shes too hard'  and 'badly designed'  when really its just some weird design sins in the tree