Blessed Sisturn III Nerf Was Not As Bad As Previously Thought.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Besides, you, yourself, specifically wanted and lead the vote with your friends on the player tag. I remember this specifically.

Evidence or Slander?

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Too strong

Nerf Huant first. It's far more stronger than 1200000 HP of Abi for non-bosses when you continuously stun mobs. Don't be flexible standard.

[Dingle]

Just now, Steorra said:

Evidence or Slander?

I have evidence, but I think you'll just flag me to the moderators if I post it.

It's a series of screenshots from the Tieba Baidu forum.

Are you giving me permission to post them?

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I have evidence, but I think you'll just flag me to the moderators if I post it.

It's a series of screenshots from the Tieba Baidu forum.

Are you giving me permission to post them?

You could. Just do it.

And remember to post the original but not only quote of the context for specific sentences.

[JoeW]

Please keep posts-on topic and without personal attacks and arguments. 

Thank you. 

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, JoeW said:

Please keep posts-on topic and without personal attacks and arguments. 

Thank you. 

Is posting about the Tiebu Baidu forum a personal attack?

[Steorra]

12 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Is posting about the Tiebu Baidu forum a personal attack?

It's not. But to misinterpreted the original post by intended mis-translate might be a slander or intentional personal attack.

Additionally, ignoring the fact of that "Tieba" has their own poll which gave an enough reason to show that why they could do some similar influences to polls here would lead an off topic arguement. But I would glad to explain it for you if you start another post or whatever and mention me by @.

But not in this thread, I guess.

 

[Crestwave]

3 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Bosses that do the same regardless of target type:

• Ancient Guardian
• Shadow Pieces (all, all stages)
• Lord of the Fruit Flies (does he even count?)
• Crab King's imposing claws
• Nightmare Werepig
• Possessed Varg
• Frostjaw
• Great Depths Worm
• Scrappy Werepig
• Spider Queen
• Toadstool
• Ancient Fuelweaver

I believe most of this is false. Frostjaw, Nightmare Werepig, Scrappy Werepig, Great Depths Worm, Toadstool and Ancient Fuelweaver all have player damage reduction. Crab King also has the component but I believe it's unused since his claws are technically a different entity. If any of the others I mentioned are not correctly applied or used, it should probably be reported as a bug.

[DegenerateFurry]

14 minutes ago, Crestwave said:

I believe most of this is false. Frostjaw, Nightmare Werepig, Scrappy Werepig, Great Depths Worm, Toadstool and Ancient Fuelweaver all have player damage reduction. Crab King also has the component but I believe it's unused since his claws are technically a different entity. If any of the others I mentioned are not correctly applied or used, it should probably be reported as a bug.

If any of those are false, the wiki is wrong again. This would not be a surprise. I'll go test them.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, DegenerateFurry said:

If any of those are false, the wiki is wrong again. This would not be a surprise. I'll go test them.

Appreciate this endlessly o7

Iirc the wiki was wrong about some haunt effects too, so it's possible. It would be funny if all of this discourse was for nothing and it was a consistent effects for all minor bosses.

[Dingle]

11 minutes ago, Steorra said:

It's not. But to misinterpreted the original post by intended mis-translate might be a slander or intentional personal attack.

Additionally, ignoring the fact of that "Tieba" has their own poll which gave an enough reason to show that why they could do some similar influences to polls here would lead an off topic arguement. But I would glad to explain it for you if you start another post or whatever and mention me by @.

But not in this thread, I guess.

 

Sure. I'll post one in this thread as it's relevant, but posting a bunch would clog up the thread too much. (I have three more, you really, really pushed for the player tag)

[Siren11]

23 minutes ago, Crestwave said:

I believe most of this is false. Frostjaw, Nightmare Werepig, Scrappy Werepig, Great Depths Worm, Toadstool and Ancient Fuelweaver all have player damage reduction. Crab King also has the component but I believe it's unused since his claws are technically a different entity. If any of the others I mentioned are not correctly applied or used, it should probably be reported as a bug.

I mentioned Ancient Fuelweaver earlier, and I don’t really know about Frostjaw and the Great Depths Worm. But I’m almost positive that Nightmare Werepig, Scrappy Werepig, and Toadstool do the same damage to Abigail as they do to players. There are probably videos that prove it, but I’ve fought those three enough to remember roughly how much damage they do to her.

Toadstool might be similar to Crab King in that the Boomshrooms may work differently?

Edit: I did check out a few videos, since I’m now questioning my memory. Scrappy Werepig seems to do 100 damage to Abby with the Pauldron and 125 damage to her with the Mace, which is consistent with the player damage values in the wiki. Nightmare Werepig seems to do 75 damage to her with his lunge, which is also the same as the player value. Toadstool’s Boomshrooms do 100 damage with no Sporecaps, which is the same for players. But it would be good to double check all these values, and check Frostjaw and the GDW as well. I don’t have anything for Nightmare Werepig’s slam, Scrappy Werepig’s cannon, or Toadstool’s slam.

[Steorra]

12 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Sure. I'll post one in this thread as it's relevant, but posting a bunch would clog up the thread too much. (I have three more, you really, really pushed for the player tag)

So, this is a post based on "most of Tieba players have similar ideas with me", which the fact Yifei already showed to you in Klei forum by simply posting the result of the poll from Tieba. But you were said that those strangers are "friends" of mine. Is this a slander?

The Tieba is public forum and I haven't stop anyone to vote opposite opinions - even in some other threads I was mentioned that "whatever opinions you have, the matter is that you should go Klei forum to speak out, or Klei would know nothing about your view". I'm not sure what you're trying to accuse me based all facts above.

And for proving my innocence, I won't "flag" you or do something to you. Since the argument of facts should be remain for people who have doubts about it.

Additionally, to mess "most Tieba users have an will of voting for the player tag" with "Player tag is what I urgently wanted" is more like a, what you know. 

I don't want to point it out clearly or your post might be hide or something. I prefer to show out the truth to everyone but not hide it by personal emotions.

[WenericMember]

18 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

I mentioned Ancient Fuelweaver earlier, and I don’t really know about Frostjaw and the Great Depths Worm. But I’m almost positive that Nightmare Werepig, Scrappy Werepig, and Toadstool do the same damage to Abigail as they do to players. There are probably videos that prove it, but I’ve fought those three enough to remember roughly how much damage they do to her.

Toadstool might be similar to Crab King in that the Boomshrooms may work differently?

Edit: I did check out a few videos, since I’m now questioning my memory. Scrappy Werepig seems to do 100 damage to Abby with the Pauldron and 125 damage to her with the Mace, which is consistent with the player damage values in the wiki. Nightmare Werepig seems to do 75 damage to her with his lunge, which is also the same as the player value. Toadstool’s Boomshrooms do 100 damage with no Sporecaps, which is the same for players. But it would be good to double check all these values, and check Frostjaw and the GDW as well. I don’t have anything for Nightmare Werepig’s slam, Scrappy Werepig’s cannon, or Toadstool’s slam.

iirc it was mentioned only some of CC's attacks are affected by player tag, so that could be why.

[Siren11]

7 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

iirc it was mentioned only some of CC's attacks are affected by player tag, so that could be why.

Man I wish things were consistent. How I am supposed to know whether it’s worth using Blessed Sisturn III if no one can agree what bosses it works on and whether it even works for all their attacks?

I’m gonna have to do so much math before every fight…

[DegenerateFurry]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

Appreciate this endlessly o7

Iirc the wiki was wrong about some haunt effects too, so it's possible. It would be funny if all of this discourse was for nothing and it was a consistent effects for all minor bosses.

 

19 minutes ago, Crestwave said:

I believe most of this is false. Frostjaw, Nightmare Werepig, Scrappy Werepig, Great Depths Worm, Toadstool and Ancient Fuelweaver all have player damage reduction. Crab King also has the component but I believe it's unused since his claws are technically a different entity. If any of the others I mentioned are not correctly applied or used, it should probably be reported as a bug.

Frostjaw: Has player tag mechanic. 75 to Abigail, 37 to Wendy.  

Nightmare Werepig: 150 to Abigail, 75 to Wendy. She went from 600 to 450 with no active Blessed Sisturn III.

Scrappy Werepig: Just spawning him in doesn't work because he won't attack with no scrap pile nearby. However, I have the mod Insight enabled (all it does is show you information), and it's been correctly saying that these bosses do extra damage to mobs so far. It says that Scrappy would have the same damage as Nightmare Werepig, but that's him without weapons, and he won't attack without weapons.

Great Depths Worm: Insight says it does an extra 4 damage to mobs with the thing where it hits you as it moves past. It can actually eat Abigail and will instantly lower her to stage 1 and unsummon her if it does (although her health was full, weirdly), but it's really difficult to get it to happen (it basically has to emerge directly on her). It also produces several manure when it finishes digesting her. 

Toadstool: Boomshrooms at stage 1 do 100 damage to Abigail and to Wendy. Insight says the damage from Toadstool itself is 50 to players and 100 to mobs, though, which probably applies to its stomp attack only.

Fuelweaver: 100 to players with his normal attack, 50 with the falling bones. The normal attack does 200 to Abigail. 

So, out of that whole list, Spider Queens, Toadstool (mostly), the Possessed Varg, the Lord of the Fruit Flies, and the Shadow Pieces actually don't have player tags. Only three of those (Shadow Pieces, Toadstool, and the Possessed Varg) are actual threats to Wendy/Abigail. 

I guess that just goes to show that the wiki is never to be trusted. Damn. 

...can this thread be about making Boomshrooms count for the player tag now?

[WenericMember]

Just now, Siren11 said:

Man I wish things were consistent. How I am supposed to know whether it’s worth using Blessed Sisturn III if no one can agree what bosses it works on and whether it even works for all their attacks?

I’m gonna have to do so much math before every fight…

on one hand it's a bit of a mess yes, on the other hand, if it leads to the mechanic ultimately being fixed that's a win in my book.

1 minute ago, DegenerateFurry said:

 

Frostjaw: Has player tag mechanic. 75 to Abigail, 37 to Wendy.  

Nightmare Werepig: 150 to Abigail, 75 to Wendy. She went from 600 to 450 with no active Blessed Sisturn III.

Scrappy Werepig: Just spawning him in doesn't work because he won't attack with no scrap pile nearby. However, I have the mod Insight enabled (all it does is show you information), and it's been correctly saying that these bosses do extra damage to mobs so far. It says that Scrappy would have the same damage as Nightmare Werepig, but that's him without weapons, and he won't attack without weapons.

Great Depths Worm: Insight says it does an extra 4 damage to mobs with the thing where it hits you as it moves past. It can actually eat Abigail and will instantly lower her to stage 1 and unsummon her if it does (although her health was full, weirdly), but it's really difficult to get it to happen (it basically has to emerge directly on her). It also produces several manure when it finishes digesting her. 

Toadstool: Boomshrooms at stage 1 do 100 damage to Abigail and to Wendy. Insight says the damage from Toadstool itself is 50 to players and 100 to mobs, though, which probably applies to its stomp attack only.

Fuelweaver: 100 to players with his normal attack, 50 with the falling bones. The normal attack does 200 to Abigail. 

So, out of that whole list, Spider Queens, Toadstool (mostly), the Possessed Varg, the Lord of the Fruit Flies, and the Shadow Pieces actually don't have player tags. Only three of those (Shadow Pieces, Toadstool, and the Possessed Varg) are actual threats to Wendy/Abigail. 

I guess that just goes to show that the wiki is never to be trusted. Damn. 

...can this thread be about making Boomshrooms count for the player tag now?

Maybe it's to do with minor bosses then? I think there was some sort of change recently (to do with the rift axe) that had some bosses get tagged as little giants or smthn.

2 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

...can this thread be about making Boomshrooms count for the player tag now?

Go for it tbh.

[Siren11]

1 minute ago, DegenerateFurry said:

 

Frostjaw: Has player tag mechanic. 75 to Abigail, 37 to Wendy.  

Nightmare Werepig: 150 to Abigail, 75 to Wendy. She went from 600 to 450 with no active Blessed Sisturn III.

Scrappy Werepig: Just spawning him in doesn't work because he won't attack with no scrap pile nearby. However, I have the mod Insight enabled (all it does is show you information), and it's been correctly saying that these bosses do extra damage to mobs so far. It says that Scrappy would have the same damage as Nightmare Werepig, but that's him without weapons, and he won't attack without weapons.

Great Depths Worm: Insight says it does an extra 4 damage to mobs with the thing where it hits you as it moves past. It can actually eat Abigail and will instantly lower her to stage 1 and unsummon her if it does (although her health was full, weirdly), but it's really difficult to get it to happen (it basically has to emerge directly on her). It also produces several manure when it finishes digesting her. 

Toadstool: Boomshrooms at stage 1 do 100 damage to Abigail and to Wendy. Insight says the damage from Toadstool itself is 50 to players and 100 to mobs, though, which probably applies to its stomp attack only.

Fuelweaver: 100 to players with his normal attack, 50 with the falling bones. The normal attack does 200 to Abigail. 

So, out of that whole list, Spider Queens, Toadstool (mostly), the Possessed Varg, the Lord of the Fruit Flies, and the Shadow Pieces actually don't have player tags. Only three of those (Shadow Pieces, Toadstool, and the Possessed Varg) are actual threats to Wendy/Abigail. 

I guess that just goes to show that the wiki is never to be trusted. Damn. 

...can this thread be about making Boomshrooms count for the player tag now?

Wait, I swear I’ve had different numbers than these while playing. What the hell is happening. This was before Wendy’s skill tree though, so maybe it was stealth patched?

[WenericMember]

Just now, Siren11 said:

Wait, I swear I’ve had different numbers than these while playing. What the hell is happening. This was before Wendy’s skill tree though, so maybe it was stealth patched?

That's possible, there's been a few cases this tree of things being stealth patched, like dark petals turning sisturn into an insanity station iirc.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 minute ago, Siren11 said:

Wait, I swear I’ve had different numbers than these while playing. What the hell is happening. This was before Wendy’s skill tree though, so maybe it was stealth patched?

It's possible? That could be why the wiki is wrong. I remember testing some of these last time this came up, too, and I also remember it being different from this.

[WenericMember]

8 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

It's possible? That could be why the wiki is wrong. I remember testing some of these last time this came up, too, and I also remember it being different from this.

This would be about the 5th time in the beta that

Klei patches something -> Fan's want a thing to be changed -> it's already been changed but no one noticed.

Off the top of my head, insanity stations, Ghastly experience booster shot, cancellable TS1 animation and boosted pipspook chance (in PQ1), where all requested while being in the game rofl.

Might be a good idea to change the thread title though at least mentioning that it's more consistant than previously thought.

[DegenerateFurry]

13 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

This would be about the 5th time in the beta that

Klei patches something -> Fan's want a thing to be changed -> it's already been changed but no one noticed.

Off the top of my head, insanity stations, Ghastly experience booster shot, cancellable TS1 animation and boosted pipspook chance (in PQ1), where all requested while being in the game rofl.

Might be a good idea to change the thread title though at least mentioning that it's more consistant than previously thought.

Yeah, good point. Title changed.

You also have a point about this not being the first time it's happened, I remember the Ghastly Experience booster shot thing. I feel like this could be avoided if these stealth changes (assuming that's what happened here) were included in the full patch notes.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, good point. Title changed.

You also have a point about this not being the first time it's happened, I remember the Ghastly Experience booster shot thing. I feel like this could be avoided if these stealth changes (assuming that's what happened here) were included in the full patch notes.

Funnily enough, you'd imagine that what would be included in the "notes on Wendy's changes for patch [...]", but they just aren't.

 

[Grove]

So, Blessed Sisturn is basically just down now? Cool

[Dingle]

26 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

So, out of that whole list, Spider Queens, Toadstool (mostly), the Possessed Varg, the Lord of the Fruit Flies, and the Shadow Pieces actually don't have player tags. Only three of those (Shadow Pieces, Toadstool, and the Possessed Varg) are actual threats to Wendy/Abigail.

...can this thread be about making Boomshrooms count for the player tag now?

Possessed Varg isn't much of a threat.

That's really good, then! I'd probably get Sisturn III myself, but it's no longer a complete no-brainer due having to put Abigail away to heal her.

[Siren11]

29 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

It's possible? That could be why the wiki is wrong. I remember testing some of these last time this came up, too, and I also remember it being different from this.

I wasn’t using insight (mod) so it’s more difficult to tell, but it’s still so weird.

A few more questions:

What about Nightmare Werepig’s slam in phase 2/3? Does that do double damage?

How does Celestial Champion work with Blessed Sisturn III?

Did they double all of Scrappy Werepig’s attacks? If that cannon does 400 damage to her…

Assuming I’m not going crazy and Klei really did secretly double the damage half the bosses do to Abigail… I think I’m gonna have to always get Blessed Sisturn III. I don’t know what to do without it.

(This is why I didn’t want them to double how much damage bosses did, because now you have to get the skill just to make Abigail the same as before. Assuming that’s what happened and I wasn’t somehow imagining Scrappy Werepig doing 100 damage to Abigail.)

Edit: Obviously Klei isn’t obligated to answer, but I am curious about whether this was patched at some point. I actually do think it’s still a pretty bad nerf if it was, since Abigail is still taking the same damage you’re used to, but healing will only be half as effective. But if you don’t take the skill, she takes twice as much damage. You’re screwed either way.

(If I am going crazy and this was never changed, just ignore it. But I think it highlights a lot of the issues with the player tag.)