Don't Starve should not be a game in which you fight bosses with high operational difficulty.

[blue fat]

There are always some people who like to fight bosses with high operational difficulty and expect every player to do the same as them.

This may also involve issues of interests. They post videos of their boss-fighting skills on some video websites, allowing those players who don't know these skills to watch their videos and learn game skills that don't conform to the characteristics of Don't Starve, so that they can make money from it.

As a beginner-friendly character, Wendy should not be a character that requires high operational difficulty to fight bosses.

Few Wendy players like her because she is good at fighting bosses.

Don't Starve should return to its themes of survival and exploration.

And we shouldn't be hindered from exploring the content of the Don't Starve game just because we don't know some high-difficulty boss-fighting skills. What's more, Wendy should not be made into a tool for them to make profits.

The survivability of Abigail in boss fights should be enhanced to make the game more comfortable for players who focus on survival.

Those players who make profits by selling skill videos should be curbed, and Abigail's damage should be weakened.

[Xplan]

i agree

[Gashzer]

If a character has an easy access, AOE damage follower that makes you immune to hound waves / common enemies then that character needs appropriate weaknesses to balance this. Abigail also negates wendys damage penalty when she is alive.

"Powerful" characters like winona and wurt are balanced by the grind to craft all their buildings. Wendy can summon abigail whenever she wants, and abigail also regenerates herself automatically if she dies. There is very little maintenance required to play Wendy.

Wendy's power lies in the fact she doesn't need to grind to obtain abigail, abigail shouldn't become as powerful as winona's catapults or wurts merm army without requiring heavy grind to get there.

I do not understand why people think it's ok to make Wendy this godlike character that casual players can use to murder bosses and hordes of mobs with very little grinding.

DST is whatever klei wants it to be. Making characters stronger is good across the board but some limits need to be put in place. I believe abigails vex shouldn't boost Wendy's damage on a beefalo by 40% but by 10% instead as the beefalo is technically a follower thats doing the damage and not wendy herself (even if it's player controlled)

If a boss is too hard, then that particular boss needs nerfed or reworked, the answer isn't making Wendy overpowered to keep casual Wendy players happy.

[Xplan]

Just now, Gashzer said:

If a character has an easy access, AOE damage follower that makes you immune to hound waves / common enemies then that character needs appropriate weaknesses to balance this. Abigail also negates wendys damage penalty when she is alive.

"Powerful" characters like winona and wurt are balanced by the grind to craft all their buildings. Wendy can summon abigail whenever she wants, and abigail also regenerates herself automatically if she dies. There is very little maintenance required to play Wendy.

as a wurt main, i can hardliy agree.

wurt needs far more less maintenance than abi.

merms is also way stronger than abi.

[Gashzer]

7 minutes ago, Xplan said:

as a wurt main, i can hardliy agree.

wurt needs far more less maintenance than abi.

merms is also way stronger than abi.

Does wurt start in the world with a merm army? 

[Xplan]

Just now, Gashzer said:

Does wurt start in the world with a merm army? 

it can be though i dont like it.....

wurt players can build a factory that constantly producing merms within 5 days.

Just now, hyoton123 said:

Wendy should do 1% damage vs normal monsters but 100% damage to anything with a boss tag. Abigail should take 1% damage from bosses but 1000% damage from normal enemies.

have you run out of inspiration?

i prefer this one.

23 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

Abigail should do 0 damage, and they remove the vex, but in return she can't be killed. She should also only produce light when she has been fed (give her rot or other food items). She should get new titles when you do things, like becoming "Scrappy Abigail" when you fight a lot. Also she should make extremely annoying and frequent sounds when she needs food. That way everyone would be able to enjoy fighting with abigail.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Xplan said:

it can be though i dont like it.....

wurt players can build a factory that constantly producing merms within 5 days.

Yes but wurt players still need to build a factory!

Does Wendy need to build an abigail factory? No they don't. This is why abigail shouldn't become as powerful as merms. Because abigail already requires less effort to use and maintain. That is a strength abigail has over merms!

[Pruinae]

1 hour ago, blue fat said:

Don't Starve should not be a game in which you fight bosses with high operational difficulty.

And we shouldn't be hindered from exploring the content of the Don't Starve game just because we don't know some high-difficulty boss-fighting skills. 

DST is not a game where you need to be skilled at combat to succeed. It's a knowledge check game.

Can't figure out how to deal with that boss? Throw bunnymen at it. Didn't work? Maybe a pillar will? Walls? Gunpowder? Boat + Edge of the world wall + Howlitzer? Weather Pains? Spawn Twins on top of it and hide? There's a bunch of creative solutions to combat that don't involve being good at it, and even if you end up not being able to figure it out by yourself, all you have to do is look around the internet and you'll be sure to find one (although I don't get why you think people making videos of them playing a video game to make money is wrong??).

[Xplan]

Just now, Gashzer said:

Yes but wurt players still need to build a factory!

Does Wendy need to build an abigail factory? No they don't. This is why abigail shouldn't become as powerful as merms. Because abigail already requires less effort to use and maintain. That is a strength abigail has over merms!

So, can wendy build a factory to strengthen abi?

she cant

that's what makes her pathetic.

[hyoton123]

10 minutes ago, Xplan said:

So, can wendy build a factory to strengthen abi?

she cant

that's what makes her pathetic.

Draw your last pathetic minion, Wendy.

 

My grandfather’s deck has no pathetic minions, Deerclops. Except Abigail.

 

EDIT: ABIGAILS FLOWER IS THE FACTORY. YOU START WITH A SPLUMONKEY/HOUND/SPIDER/BEE/PIG/BIG TENTACLE/FROG/BATALISK BLENDER. YOU TAKE TWO DAYS OF DOING NOTHING AND GET 480 HEALTH A DAY TO WORK WITH.

 

Also every time i talk with people who play wurt the amount of setup time goes down. First I heard a year, then a season, then 15 days, then 10, now 5. Soon wurt will be in the negatives.

[Sikers]

12 minutes ago, Xplan said:

So, can wendy build a factory to strengthen abi?

she cant

that's what makes her pathetic.

DST characters were never created to be equal in strength, but to offer a different play styles 

[Xplan]

Just now, Sikers said:

DST characters were never created to be equal in strength, but to offer a different play styles 

okay now you completely confused me

who is unpleasant with with abi being op

is balance important or not?

[Sikers]

Quote

okay now you completely confused me

who is unpleasant with with abi being op

is balance important or not?

Balance is important because unbalanced character = unfun playstyle, but that doesn't mean characters should be equal, because playstyles aren't equal. For example, Wurt is a character designed to build a village and create an army of followers. If her DPS were tune down to match other survivors, she would be the most useless character in the entire game

[Reiko24]

3 hours ago, blue fat said:

There are always some people who like to fight bosses with high operational difficulty and expect every player to do the same as them.

This may also involve issues of interests. They post videos of their boss-fighting skills on some video websites, allowing those players who don't know these skills to watch their videos and learn game skills that don't conform to the characteristics of Don't Starve, so that they can make money from it.

As a beginner-friendly character, Wendy should not be a character that requires high operational difficulty to fight bosses.

Few Wendy players like her because she is good at fighting bosses.

Don't Starve should return to its themes of survival and exploration.

And we shouldn't be hindered from exploring the content of the Don't Starve game just because we don't know some high-difficulty boss-fighting skills. What's more, Wendy should not be made into a tool for them to make profits.

The survivability of Abigail in boss fights should be enhanced to make the game more comfortable for players who focus on survival.

Those players who make profits by selling skill videos should be curbed, and Abigail's damage should be weakened.

Less skill = use more resources to kill a boss (more armor, healing)

More skill = use less resources to kill a boss (less armor, healing)

 

That's the only thing. Just... stop. Even casual players can kill endgame bosses if they make enough armor and healing. If you are skilled, you are rewarded with not needing to use as much resources. It's perfectly balanced and normal. You aren't kept back by Klei and you can defeat bosses even if you are bad at the game and just facetank. Kiting and skillful play isn't the only playstyle. You can't have everything handed to you on a silver platter. DST would be very boring if the game was handing everything to you for free.

[layangan putus]

I feel you are being extreme with this post for reason unknown which is fine. This post challenges the idea of balancing and I'd posted the definition of balancing in PvE games somewhere, basically it means constant works for dev team to decide in order to enhance unique playstyles for fun experience. In DST, that uniqueness could be anything between simple, complex, easy, difficult, fast, slow, consistent, inconsistent, strong, weak, low stakes, high stakes, low cost, high cost, etc as long as it's fun. Fun is always relative and for DST, it is usually related to figuring something out and executing it - Sometimes it can be obvious and sometimes it can be unintuitive. Furthermore, to elaborate "balancing" in DST, there are four essential aspects that one must consider:

1. Surviving (stuff you should constantly do);
2. Adventures (process you must do to reach goal);
3. Mysteries (the goal itself);
4. Combat (inserted part somewhere in between of three other aspects).

For this topic, the uniqueness as part of DST charm is always related to 17 characters (excluding Wes & Wonkey) and now since we have 32 giants meaning there are 544 possible scenarios or I'd love to say combat puzzles for players to solve. There are also more possibilities like befriend something, flingo, gunpowder, other exclusive or common shenanigans alike with or without combat factor so I'd call it "as long as it works" solutions for those giant puzzles. In case of DST, balancing always related to the character itself so for Wendy you need to compare the current Wendy to the beta Wendy then see what's up. For examples:

• "Do beta tools made by dev help you as players to solve something including giant puzzles better than available Wendy's tools?"
• "Can these beta stuff promote the idea of The Twins playstyle (Wendy and Abigail fight together side by side)?"
• "If both answers for previous questions are "Yes" then are the tools intuitive enough to use and do you have fun when using those tools?"

My point related to your title is surely the dev could make this game simpler by cutting 544 possibilities into only 17 or even less to make fighting giants simpler like you suggest so they could fully expand the other aspects which would make the game similar to original Don't Starve like you said and Raft I feel, is this what you want? Go back to the past? How about we move forward? Simply by giving Wendy & Abi both tools for simple combat and complex combat so all works done can be kept without wasting any resources - Because opposed from your ideal, some want dev to just stick with current DST design meaning tough boss mechanics to fight which has their own issue being promoting unintuitive gameplay against high stakes semi-permadeath like practicing through console command simulation and also relying on meta knowledge. Can dev team work this out to achieve synthesis?

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

"Powerful" characters like winona and wurt are balanced by the grind to craft all their buildings

No they are not.

 

Winona at least needs fuel.

[Lardee]

4 hours ago, blue fat said:

As a beginner-friendly character, Wendy should not be a character that requires high operational difficulty to fight bosses.

Beginners aren't fighting bosses. End of thread.

[DegenerateFurry]

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

DST is not a game where you need to be skilled at combat to succeed. It's a knowledge check game.

Can't figure out how to deal with that boss? Throw bunnymen at it. Didn't work? Maybe a pillar will? Walls? Gunpowder? Boat + Edge of the world wall + Howlitzer? Weather Pains? Spawn Twins on top of it and hide? There's a bunch of creative solutions to combat that don't involve being good at it, and even if you end up not being able to figure it out by yourself, all you have to do is look around the internet and you'll be sure to find one (although I don't get why you think people making videos of them playing a video game to make money is wrong??).

Yeah, but people call all of that cheese. Some even suggest it should be removed.

[YouKnowWho142]

I see this opinion pop up a lot, and i have the opinion of my own that DST is just not the same game anymore. I don't think a focus on DST's survival aspects work anymore period. When I play DST with my friends, even my friends who are newer players, they get bored really quickly after we establish a base around 10-15 days in. This is a problem with a lot of survival games, where after you've established you've already kind of won, but I found it especially prevalent in DST. Even though I personally cannot go back to singleplayer Don't Starve due to the lack of boss content, it does at least have an end goal that you can work towards through the adventure mode. Not to mention, Don't Starve being multiplayer inherently trivializes the survival aspect by removing the sense that you are alone as well as making every aspect of the game easier. I don't think this opinion is all too popular, but I believe that singleplayer Don't Starve should remain the uncompromising survival mode that DS in general has become known for, and DST should be as it is now. Personally, I believe this direction for DST is very healthy and has prolonged my interest for the last few years. While I don't think DST should completely lose its survival identity (I do agree it can improve on it at some points), I also think that its current direction is more in line with a replayable multiplayer experience.

[Mysterious box]

8 hours ago, Xplan said:

as a wurt main, i can hardliy agree.

wurt needs far more less maintenance than abi.

merms is also way stronger than abi.

There's a limit to how much someone can lie to defend a cause even in the end game Wurt still has to worry about the king's hunger even with the skills in place that fact is always in the back of the player's mind, then she also has to worry about the potential for her homes being destroyed, finally there's the fact that merms lack commands and can't travel between shards and not even half the considerations that go into Wurt this is crazy levels of fabrication...

8 hours ago, Xplan said:

So, can wendy build a factory to strengthen abi?

she cant

that's what makes her pathetic.

She has a factory that builds abgials it's called abigial's flower.

[erick was right]

I love people of this forum that this game is some soulslike XD

accurate pfp buddy skibi dibi ohio rizz

(disagree, the difficulty of this game is low, skill trees make it even lower)

[Mysterious box]

7 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

Draw your last pathetic minion, Wendy.

 

My grandfather’s deck has no pathetic minions, Deerclops. Except Abigail.

 

EDIT: ABIGAILS FLOWER IS THE FACTORY. YOU START WITH A SPLUMONKEY/HOUND/SPIDER/BEE/PIG/BIG TENTACLE/FROG/BATALISK BLENDER. YOU TAKE TWO DAYS OF DOING NOTHING AND GET 480 HEALTH A DAY TO WORK WITH.

 

Also every time i talk with people who play wurt the amount of setup time goes down. First I heard a year, then a season, then 15 days, then 10, now 5. Soon wurt will be in the negatives.

I hear her kingdom gets fully built when the character selection screen comes up.

4 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

No they are not.

 

Winona at least needs fuel.

Does food not count?

[Well-met]

bad player apologism is not something I expected to witness in my lifetime

[Evelo]

"Don't Starve should not be a game in which you fight bosses"

That's all that is needed to be said. This is, or at least was, a survival game. Not Terraria.

[Xplan]

9 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

Draw your last pathetic minion, Wendy.

 

My grandfather’s deck has no pathetic minions, Deerclops. Except Abigail.

 

EDIT: ABIGAILS FLOWER IS THE FACTORY. YOU START WITH A SPLUMONKEY/HOUND/SPIDER/BEE/PIG/BIG TENTACLE/FROG/BATALISK BLENDER. YOU TAKE TWO DAYS OF DOING NOTHING AND GET 480 HEALTH A DAY TO WORK WITH.

 

Also every time i talk with people who play wurt the amount of setup time goes down. First I heard a year, then a season, then 15 days, then 10, now 5. Soon wurt will be in the negatives.

it's clear that you have no idea about how strong wurt is........