Don't Starve should not be a game in which you fight bosses with high operational difficulty.

[Mike23Ua]

9 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Yes but wurt players still need to build a factory!

Does Wendy need to build an abigail factory? No they don't. This is why abigail shouldn't become as powerful as merms. Because abigail already requires less effort to use and maintain. That is a strength abigail has over merms!

Wendy spawns into the game with Abigail already available to her, same as Wolfgang spawns with Dumbells or Willow Spawns with Bernie & Her Lighter.

HOWEVER- Dumbells, Bernie and the Lighter can all lose durability and need to be replaced.

Abigail is available at all times EVEN IF YOU GET HER KILLED 15,000 times in a span of 5 Minutes.

Even though Wendy has a Sisturn that needs flower petals to fuel, Wendy isn’t severally punished for letting her flower petals fall out the Sisturn and turn to Rot.

Theres a REASON there’s so many posts about people barely using Ecthoherbology Elixers, It’s because Abigail has no resource or upkeep cost Whatsoever.

And when I tried to point that out in my own thread, the thread got locked up tight.

[Xplan]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

There's a limit to how much someone can lie to defend a cause even in the end game Wurt still has to worry about the king's hunger even with the skills in place that fact is always in the back of the player's mind, then she also has to worry about the potential for her homes being destroyed, finally there's the fact that merms lack commands and can't travel between shards and not even half the considerations that go into Wurt this is crazy levels of fabrication...

hahahaha

you cant fool me, i've been playing wurt for a long while.

wurt is so much stronger and more comfortable than wendy in almost every aspects.

wendy's skill tree is continuing to be stupid, i will just go back to play wurt.

[hyoton123]

19 minutes ago, Xplan said:

it's clear that you have no idea about how strong wurt is........

Oh no, not this again!

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, Xplan said:

hahahaha

you cant fool me, i've been playing wurt for a long while.

wurt is so much stronger and more comfortable than wendy in almost every aspects.

wendy's skill tree is continuing to be stupid, i will just go back to play wurt.

[Xplan]

Just now, hyoton123 said:

Oh no, not this again!

wurt is one of the most perfect characters.

[hyoton123]

Dead curious, what do wurt speedruns look like?

[Yifei_]

1 minute ago, Xplan said:

wurt is one of the most perfect characters.

(If my computer's performance is powerful enough)

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Xplan said:

wurt is one of the most perfect characters.

[Xplan]

Just now, hyoton123 said:

Dead curious, what do wurt speedruns look like?

i dont know, that's her only weakpoint.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Xplan said:

i dont know, that's her only weakpoint.

[Arepantera]

11 hours ago, blue fat said:

Don't Starve should return to its themes of survival and exploration.

  It would be interesting if they went back to their old philosophy when developing the game, but they've abandoned it a long time ago. There is no coming back

Hell, iirc someone at klei said that they would never make Dont Starve a multiplayer game, but here we are.

 

10 hours ago, Gashzer said:

"Powerful" characters like winona and wurt are balanced by the grind to craft all their buildings.

Powerful in quotations is fine for Winona, she needs to grind a lot
Wurt however is extremely powerful and her grinding is insanely easy for the absurd power she gets, all the resources that she needs are easy to get. 
Wood is easy to get because she is just as good at collecting as maxwell. Reeds are easy to get because she naturally wants to be in the swamp, fish is easy to get as well for obvious reasons. The only thing that might take you 2 or 3 days to build is the royal tapestry

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

There's a limit to how much someone can lie to defend a cause even in the end game Wurt still has to worry about the king's hunger even with the skills in place that fact is always in the back of the player's mind, then she also has to worry about the potential for her homes being destroyed, finally there's the fact that merms lack commands and can't travel between shards and not even half the considerations that go into Wurt this is crazy levels of fabrication...

Obvious trolling but I'll respond anyway
Wurt is easily the strongest character in the game
The only "difficult" task is completing the royal tapestry and that's easily done by day 9. 
The king's hunger has been buffed so many times that, even without any perks, he can last 8 days if you fill his belly. The kings hunger matters so little in fact that most players just forget about him, let it die, feed a new merm a couple of stone fruits and there you go.
The homes being destroyed isn't really an issue that anyone has, specially with how cheap they are. Guard houses are expensive, but if you build a box around the king's carpet, you can essentially kill the king and replace it to constantly keep summoning 4 royal guards

Her only "weakness" is that they don't follow her between shards, but that's more of a nuisance than a weakness since houses are so cheap, you just have to build another tapestry and another box.

Wurt is so strong that when I play as her I genuinely get bored around day 40 because there is nothing that she can't steamroll at that point.

[blue fat]

10 hours ago, Pruinae said:

DST is not a game where you need to be skilled at combat to succeed. It's a knowledge check game.

Can't figure out how to deal with that boss? Throw bunnymen at it. Didn't work? Maybe a pillar will? Walls? Gunpowder? Boat + Edge of the world wall + Howlitzer? Weather Pains? Spawn Twins on top of it and hide? There's a bunch of creative solutions to combat that don't involve being good at it, and even if you end up not being able to figure it out by yourself, all you have to do is look around the internet and you'll be sure to find one (although I don't get why you think people making videos of them playing a video game to make money is wrong??).

It's understandable that people make videos of themselves playing video games to make money. But the problem is that just because of this, some are demanding to weaken Abigail's survivability. If that happens, it'll make the game relatively easier for most players. In Don't Starve Together (DST), with the changes in the skill tree, there have been many powerful and somewhat mindless characters popping up. So why don't they try to address those characters instead of always targeting Wendy? The reason is that there are a large number of people who like Wendy, and this somehow touches on their own interests. Their unfair focus on Wendy really makes us casual players angry.

 

What I'm trying to convey is that while it's fine to make money through making game videos, it's wrong to influence the changes in Wendy's skill book just for the sake of making those videos. You said "you think people making videos of them playing a video game to make money is wrong." That's clearly taking my words out of context and misunderstanding my intention. Many of the people I've argued with are fond of doing this, of taking things out of context to misinterpret others.

 

For example, when a character tag was added to Abigail, some claimed that it made her invincible or immortal. I must say this is a wrong statement. Adding that character tag only makes her more durable, not truly invincible or immortal. However, those people tend to go to extremes when discussing things like this, which in turn affects others' judgment. Take the Gestalt Abigail in the second beta version as an example. It had invincible frames at that time, and some said this would turn Wendy into a character who just remotely controls Abigail. But in fact, only a very small number of players can achieve that because it requires excellent management skills.

 

You also mentioned that we can use other techniques besides combat to defeat bosses. I don't think this statement is right. In most games, there are alternative ways of playing, and there's no single fixed way, which is indeed one of the appealing aspects of the game. I defeated all the bosses in Don't Starve Together for the first time when playing as Wendy. I'm capable of defeating all the bosses with Wendy, but that doesn't mean I had a comfortable gaming experience. The process was rather tough. Those other techniques are just backup options. Just because there are these backup options doesn't mean that Abigail doesn't need to have her survivability improved.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, arepana said:

Obvious trolling but I'll respond anyway
Wurt is easily the strongest character in the game
The only "difficult" task is completing the royal tapestry and that's easily done by day 9. 
The king's hunger has been buffed so many times that, even without any perks, he can last 8 days if you fill his belly. The kings hunger matters so little in fact that most players just forget about him, let it die, feed a new merm a couple of stone fruits and there you go.
The homes being destroyed isn't really an issue that anyone has, specially with how cheap they are. Guard houses are expensive, but if you build a box around the king's carpet, you can essentially kill the king and replace it to constantly keep summoning 4 royal guards

Her only "weakness" is that they don't follow her between shards, but that's more of a nuisance than a weakness since houses are so cheap, you just have to build another tapestry and another box.

Wurt is so strong that when I play as her I genuinely get bored around day 40 because there is nothing that she can't steamroll at that point.

Disagree getting the materials for the king by day 9 is not easy for most people to accomplish to make the diy royalty kit it takes 5 ropes and 5 boards then you need 20 kelp, 15 beefalo wool, and 10 pig skin and that's before even building any merm houses.

Even if we low ball it and say you need 20 merm flortifications, 10 craftsmerm houses, and related merm buildings that's

• Merm guards 100 boards, 20 tentacle spots, and 40 spears
  • Or 200 boards, 40 tentacle spots, and 80 spears if you plan to use a second set for the caves as well
•  Merms 50 boards,30 reeds, and 20 fish for the normal merms
  • Who are the only ones able to use tools by the way
• Armermry 4 boards, 1 tentacle spot, 5 logs, 5 grass as well as additional logs and grass equal to the amount of merm guards you want to equip with armor and to make up for when that  armor breaks
• Shoddy tool shed 4 boards, 1 tentacle spot, 5 rocks and 5 twigs as well additonal rocks and twigs similar to the reason stated above
  • these might need built in various locations if you don't plan to go back home every time their armor/tool breaks

I don't know about you but I've never heard a single person call Wurt's crafts cheap.

Feeding the king isn't hard but it's a task that's always kept in the back of your mind it's easy to forget about and as for your merms keeping them fed can be annoying as well as it's easy to miss their hunger signs technically speaking you can bypass the need to manage your horde's hunger by converting them into their aligned states but in the case of shadow it's not the easiest thing to do in mass since they need to die first and that  means their hp is half of it's max potential and in the case of lunar it's resource intensive before you unlock the staff to do it for free. Also this doesn't take into account any interruption to your connection be it leaving the shard intentionally or not or even just a rollback will immediately kill all shadow merms and get rid of the loyalty and transformations of your lunar merms.

Yes in terms of raw power Wurt is the strongest character but the reasons are above not a single person would spare her a glance if she wasn't powerful with all this in mind she's got various mechanics going on in the background that require her attention for the best experience. 

[ColdHeaven]

1 hour ago, Xplan said:

it's clear that you have no idea about how strong wurt is........

Do you know how strong Wendy is? Well it is certain she isn't wes level

[Xplan]

Just now, ColdHeaven said:

Do you know how strong Wendy is? Well it is certain she isn't wes level

uhh....

[SilverSpoon]

11 hours ago, Gashzer said:

I do not understand why people think it's ok to make Wendy this godlike character that casual players can use to murder bosses and hordes of mobs with very little grinding.

Because people don't want Wendy be casual players can use to "murder" bosses and hordes of mobs, 
but people want Wendy be casual players can use to "fight" bosses and hordes of mobs. Of couse not as  "x0.75 damage Wilson".

I think everyone knows that player-tagged Abigail can tank bosses by Spectol Cure-All spam. However, I have not yet seen any voices saying "Make it possible to defeat it."
My suggestion is still to nerf Wendy's attack power and leave her defense as it is.

[Pruinae]

20 minutes ago, blue fat said:

It's understandable that people make videos of themselves playing video games to make money. But the problem is that just because of this, some are demanding to weaken Abigail's survivability. If that happens, it'll make the game relatively easier for most players. In Don't Starve Together (DST), with the changes in the skill tree, there have been many powerful and somewhat mindless characters popping up. So why don't they try to address those characters instead of always targeting Wendy? The reason is that there are a large number of people who like Wendy, and this somehow touches on their own interests. Their unfair focus on Wendy really makes us casual players angry.

Is not that people don't talk about others characters, is that those characters' time to be on the spotlight has passed. People did talk about Willow, Maxwell, Wigfrid, etc... (They still do).

But now it's the Wendy, Wortox, Walter beta. The specific focus on Wendy I believe is because of three factors:

1. Wendy is a VERY popular character.
2. Most people are fine with Wortox's skilltree, so even if it was released as is they wouldn't mind.
3. Walter is a VERY unpopular character.

So there's a lot of feedback on Wendy's, but people don't care or don't know about Walter's to give feedback on his. While Wortox's is on a good spot so there's not much to be said that hasn't already.

20 minutes ago, blue fat said:

 

What I'm trying to convey is that while it's fine to make money through making game videos, it's wrong to influence the changes in Wendy's skill book just for the sake of making those videos. You said "you think people making videos of them playing a video game to make money is wrong." That's clearly taking my words out of context and misunderstanding my intention. Many of the people I've argued with are fond of doing this, of taking things out of context to misinterpret others.

I think this is more of a language barrier issue than anything. It's not that I'm trying maliciously to take your words out of context, more so the context has been altered after it went through the translation tool you used. I believe that if you copy your already translated message and try to translate it back to the previous language, you will see how far it might have been taken out of context. Discussing through this language barrier requires a lot of caution and cultural awareness (unfortunately that understanding can't be expected from people on the internet), which can take a toll on everyone involved.

25 minutes ago, blue fat said:

 

You also mentioned that we can use other techniques besides combat to defeat bosses. I don't think this statement is right. In most games, there are alternative ways of playing, and there's no single fixed way, which is indeed one of the appealing aspects of the game. I defeated all the bosses in Don't Starve Together for the first time when playing as Wendy. I'm capable of defeating all the bosses with Wendy, but that doesn't mean I had a comfortable gaming experience. The process was rather tough. Those other techniques are just backup options. Just because there are these backup options doesn't mean that Abigail doesn't need to have her survivability improved.

I personally don't care about discussing about Blessed Sisturn III, I will just believe in Klei and hope they find a solution that will make most players content.

My previous message was mostly tackling the context that I got from your post, which was "We shouldn't be barred from exploring Don't Starve's content just because we are not skilled at combating bosses". I replied to that with "You are not being barred since you have other options". If that was not the context that you meant, then I fear it has been lost in translation.

[ColdHeaven]

If it's not fun, why bother

If it"s not a battle, where's the fun?

[blue fat]

3 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

If it's not fun, why bother

If it"s not a battle, where's the fun?

Building a wonderful base and a beautiful homeland is really interesting.

[Chewabacca]

1 hour ago, blue fat said:

It's understandable that people make videos of themselves playing video games to make money. But the problem is that just because of this, some are demanding to weaken Abigail's survivability. If that happens, it'll make the game relatively easier for most players. In Don't Starve Together (DST), with the changes in the skill tree, there have been many powerful and somewhat mindless characters popping up. So why don't they try to address those characters instead of always targeting Wendy? The reason is that there are a large number of people who like Wendy, and this somehow touches on their own interests. Their unfair focus on Wendy really makes us casual players angry.

 

What I'm trying to convey is that while it's fine to make money through making game videos, it's wrong to influence the changes in Wendy's skill book just for the sake of making those videos. You said "you think people making videos of them playing a video game to make money is wrong." That's clearly taking my words out of context and misunderstanding my intention. Many of the people I've argued with are fond of doing this, of taking things out of context to misinterpret others.

 

For example, when a character tag was added to Abigail, some claimed that it made her invincible or immortal. I must say this is a wrong statement. Adding that character tag only makes her more durable, not truly invincible or immortal. However, those people tend to go to extremes when discussing things like this, which in turn affects others' judgment. Take the Gestalt Abigail in the second beta version as an example. It had invincible frames at that time, and some said this would turn Wendy into a character who just remotely controls Abigail. But in fact, only a very small number of players can achieve that because it requires excellent management skills.

 

You also mentioned that we can use other techniques besides combat to defeat bosses. I don't think this statement is right. In most games, there are alternative ways of playing, and there's no single fixed way, which is indeed one of the appealing aspects of the game. I defeated all the bosses in Don't Starve Together for the first time when playing as Wendy. I'm capable of defeating all the bosses with Wendy, but that doesn't mean I had a comfortable gaming experience. The process was rather tough. Those other techniques are just backup options. Just because there are these backup options doesn't mean that Abigail doesn't need to have her survivability improved.

Regarding the part where you accuse DST YouTubers of wanting Wendy to be challenging so that they can look impressive beating bosses as her: this doesn't make sense since Wendy is not the only character and they are free to make videos of other, harder, characters like Wes beating bosses. Since you are likely talking about Lardee, as he and DVGMedia are the only YouTubers I've recognized participating in these discussions, you should know that he in fact does just that and does not stick to Wendy. I believe that YouTube is banned in China, so here is a screenshot of his most recent content for proof:



I will also add that that's a pretty serious accusation you're throwing around. Lardee and other players arguing against you aren't doing so because they secretly hate Wendy and have a burning grudge against blonde 11-year-olds with dead sisters, they're doing it because they genuinely find fun in a challenging game, and making things less challenging will take away some of their fun. It is poor practice to instantly assume that a person who disagrees with you is lying about the reasons for their disagreement.

Regarding your point about people not talking as much about Walter or Wortox: as Pruinae pointed out, Wendy is popular in a way that those two aren't, and so will attract a level of discussion that those two didn't. But beyond that, as a Walter main, I can tell you that his tree is unfinished, and we can't critique what literally isn't there. When the devs' focus was on the slingshot, people were in fact talking about the slingshot, but now their focus is on further developing Woby and survival skills, and while we can propose ideas, it is a bit harder to conjure up ideas than to give feedback on features that have already been added. Wendy's skill tree is fully written, so of course she's going to attract more discussion.

[blue fat]

1 hour ago, Chewabacca said:

Regarding the part where you accuse DST YouTubers of wanting Wendy to be challenging so that they can look impressive beating bosses as her: this doesn't make sense since Wendy is not the only character and they are free to make videos of other, harder, characters like Wes beating bosses. Since you are likely talking about Lardee, as he and DVGMedia are the only YouTubers I've recognized participating in these discussions, you should know that he in fact does just that and does not stick to Wendy. I believe that YouTube is banned in China, so here is a screenshot of his most recent content for proof:



I will also add that that's a pretty serious accusation you're throwing around. Lardee and other players arguing against you aren't doing so because they secretly hate Wendy and have a burning grudge against blonde 11-year-olds with dead sisters, they're doing it because they genuinely find fun in a challenging game, and making things less challenging will take away some of their fun. It is poor practice to instantly assume that a person who disagrees with you is lying about the reasons for their disagreement.

Regarding your point about people not talking as much about Walter or Wortox: as Pruinae pointed out, Wendy is popular in a way that those two aren't, and so will attract a level of discussion that those two didn't. But beyond that, as a Walter main, I can tell you that his tree is unfinished, and we can't critique what literally isn't there. When the devs' focus was on the slingshot, people were in fact talking about the slingshot, but now their focus is on further developing Woby and survival skills, and while we can propose ideas, it is a bit harder to conjure up ideas than to give feedback on features that have already been added. Wendy's skill tree is fully written, so of course she's going to attract more discussion.

 

2 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

Regarding the part where you accuse DST YouTubers of wanting Wendy to be challenging so that they can look impressive beating bosses as her: this doesn't make sense since Wendy is not the only character and they are free to make videos of other, harder, characters like Wes beating bosses. Since you are likely talking about Lardee, as he and DVGMedia are the only YouTubers I've recognized participating in these discussions, you should know that he in fact does just that and does not stick to Wendy. I believe that YouTube is banned in China, so here is a screenshot of his most recent content for proof:



I will also add that that's a pretty serious accusation you're throwing around. Lardee and other players arguing against you aren't doing so because they secretly hate Wendy and have a burning grudge against blonde 11-year-olds with dead sisters, they're doing it because they genuinely find fun in a challenging game, and making things less challenging will take away some of their fun. It is poor practice to instantly assume that a person who disagrees with you is lying about the reasons for their disagreement.

Regarding your point about people not talking as much about Walter or Wortox: as Pruinae pointed out, Wendy is popular in a way that those two aren't, and so will attract a level of discussion that those two didn't. But beyond that, as a Walter main, I can tell you that his tree is unfinished, and we can't critique what literally isn't there. When the devs' focus was on the slingshot, people were in fact talking about the slingshot, but now their focus is on further developing Woby and survival skills, and while we can propose ideas, it is a bit harder to conjure up ideas than to give feedback on features that have already been added. Wendy's skill tree is fully written, so of course she's going to attract more discussion.

I don't think I've ever said that they secretly dislike Wendy. I just mean that some people are trying to make profits from this. Once interests are involved, their words should be doubted. I don't know who Lardee is, and I don't care either. What I want to say is that it's really inappropriate for people with interests involved to participate in the discussion about Wendy's skill tree, as their opinions will be influenced by their own interests.

 

In China, on Bilibili, which is the largest community for Don't Starve, there are also a small number of comments suggesting that strengthening Abigail's survivability is too much. And most of these remarks appear under videos that focus on extreme gaming experiences or quick clearance of the game. I'm talking about this group of people. I've never cared about what's going on with YouTube.

[ColdHeaven]

8 minutes ago, blue fat said:

 

I don't think I've ever said that they secretly dislike Wendy. I just mean that some people are trying to make profits from this. Once interests are involved, their words should be doubted. I don't know who Lardee is, and I don't care either. What I want to say is that it's really inappropriate for people with interests involved to participate in the discussion about Wendy's skill tree, as their opinions will be influenced by their own interests.

 

In China, on Bilibili, which is the largest community for Don't Starve, there are also a small number of comments suggesting that strengthening Abigail's survivability is too much. And most of these remarks appear under videos that focus on extreme gaming experiences or quick clearance of the game. I'm talking about this group of people. I've never cared about what's going on with YouTube.

The player tag change have a minimal effect on speed running, besides it would be in their interest to make wendy stronger for a faster speedrun. They are simply giving their opinion on Wendy's strength 

[blue fat]

8 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

The player tag change have a minimal effect on speed running, besides it would be in their interest to make wendy stronger for a faster speedrun. They are simply giving their opinion on Wendy's strength 

Strengthening Abigail's survivability will greatly make players who focus on the survival gameplay feel more comfortable. Just a player tag is not enough as she still seems rather weak. Abigail's survivability should be strengthened further.

 

If Abigail's survivability is too weak, it will turn this character into an extremely difficult one. If survival players use her to defeat bosses, they will need to master very difficult boss-fighting skills and will have to look for guides. And these guides are only mastered by these people, which is where their interests lie. It can't be simply explained away by saying that they are just giving their own opinions. They want to keep this kind of interest in their own hands.

[Jakepeng99]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Does food not count?

No because seeds and kelp are embarrisingly dirt cheap compared to gems, nitre and riff materials

[Uedo]

16 hours ago, Shining Galaxy said:

All characters are equal, but some characters are more equal than others...

In the terms you're using the word, equality recognises difference. It doesn't mean 1:1 when it comes to these things.