For all the people dissatisfied with Blessed Sisturn III, what would you replace it with?

[CremeLover]

Blessed Sisturn was intended to be the survivability line ever since the beginning, when it gave extra health to Abigail, and now it gives 50% damage reduction from bosses, but most suggestions I've seen from its detractors want it moved to Lunar Abigail line exclusively.

If so, what would you put in the survival line for base Abigail to replace it? Or would you lock all survivability behind Lunar rifts?

[Steorra]

Player Tag should move to regular petals of sisturn decoration, for more easier achievable for newcomers.

At the same time, move Shadow Sisterhood II into dark petals of sisturn decoration, then if you want tankier Abi, you won't have the enhanced Vex.

[thesooz9000]

Spectral Cure-all Spam is already something you can do with basic abigail, especially with how easy it is to amass mourning glory.

[WenericMember]

Ive talked about it elsewhere, but theres two main issues - the combo with cure-all, and compatability with shadow abigail. 

Shadow abigail is supposed to be a glass cannon, so giving it tankiness on par with gesalt abby is a problem 

Cure all is presently too easy to spam, making Abby immortal.

Weaking the latter interaction and breaking the former interaction would fix most peoples problems.

 

[Lardee]

Lunar Flowers = decreased damage + player tag for Gestalt Abigail.

Dark Petals =  damage vulnerability + increase damage modifier for Shadow Abigail

 

or Lunar Flowers = 0 - 30% damage reduction based on lunar cycle

 

 

[Debruh]

Personally, I would just move it to the lunar line.

Having the Sisturn line as a survivability thing doesn't seem like a good idea. The Lunar line seems to try doing that. And the shadow line is all about damage. I think it would be best if the Sisturn line could serve both the shadow line's glass cannon design, and lunar's survivability design 

[Lardee]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Player Tag should move to regular petals of sisturn decoration, for more easier achievable for newcomers.

The player tag halves boss damage. Newcomers don't fight bosses.

[SilverSpoon]

10 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Newcomers don't fight bosses.

I absolutely NO agree that! If I play with a beginner, do I have to say, "We're going to fight the boss, but you're a beginner so you don't join in"?

It was nearly impossible for beginners to survive the boss with Abigail, so I think it would be OK to make the normal Abigail tougher so that beginners could enjoy "Wendy"...

[Sikers]

I would be happy with the extra HP, but I mean real HP, not a shield. Having some room for potential error is always nice. And the damage reduction could be added to Unyielding Draught and Distilled Vengeance to make them a little less useless

[Nikki Darks]

I liked the shield it gave before, but the implementation was terrible. 

Maybe if the shield was granted the moment you insert 4 lune tree blossoms, and it had a cooldown when it fully depleted?

As for the player tag, just make it a part of the third alignment skill, when Abby is a gestalt she gets the player tag.

[Pig Princess]

4 hours ago, CremeLover said:

If so, what would you put in the survival line for base Abigail to replace it? Or would you lock all survivability behind Lunar rifts?

I would like overheal from previous patch to be returned. Not that I need it, but it was fun to gain something out of planning my shedule, I liked how it made me want to build sisturn, I liked how I could replace revenant restorative with it (I barely use spectral-cure all). Generally it was refreshing to have an incentive to leave Abigail at base when I don't really need her instead of dragging her with me to take small random hits from things. I like the feeling of caring about Abigail as well when it comes to flavor. Unpopular opinion warning! I actually liked when it required 10 minutes to get 600 extra hp, 5 is too quick. Maybe it's because I'm not good enough to spend more time killing bosses than preparing food and crafting stuff, but I wouldn't enjoy such pace anyway, so it was fine to me. 

Aside from overheal, I would like more commands to be added to Team Spirit branch, and animation of existing ones to be reduced, as well as cooldown not being shared. Shield elixirs need revisit as well. I think it would be sufficient enough to ensure Abigail's survivability.

And I wish gestalt Abigail wasn't treated like "newbie button". I wish she could be just as interesting mechanically as regular Abigail and wasn't sacrificed. I don't understand why so many people gave up on that so quickly, and some even use it as trash can where they want to put any issues with balance if they think there are great issues. 

[Nikki Darks]

10 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

I would like overheal from previous patch to be returned. Not that I need it, but it was fun to gain something out of planning my shedule, I liked how it made me want to build sisturn, I liked how I could replace revenant restorative with it (I barely use spectral-cure all). Generally it was refreshing to have an incentive to leave Abigail at base when I don't really need her instead of dragging her with me to take small random hits from things. I like the feeling of caring about Abigail as well when it comes to flavor. Unpopular opinion warning! I actually liked when it required 10 minutes to get 600 extra hp, 5 is too quick. Maybe it's because I'm not good enough to spend more time killing bosses than preparing food and crafting staff, but I wouldn't enjoy such pace anyway, so it was fine to me. 

Aside from overheal, I would like more commands to be added to Team Spirit branch, and animation of existing ones to be reduced, as well as cooldown not being shared. Shield elixirs need revisit as well. I think it would be sufficient enough to ensure Abigail's survivability.

And I wish gestalt Abigail wasn't treated like "newbie button". I wish she could be just as interesting mechanically as regular Abigail and wasn't sacrificed. I don't understand why so many people gave up on that so quickly, and some even use it as trash can where they want to put any issues with balance if they think there are great issues. 

Honestly, the smaller shield elixir (that requires a log) could give her like, 10% damage reduction, but the bigger one (living log) could give her 30% on top of the shield + reflect!

[Pig Princess]

11 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

Honestly, the smaller shield elixir (that requires a log) could give her like, 10% damage reduction, but the bigger one (living log) could give her 30% on top of the shield + reflect!

My own suggestion was ability to trigger shield in some conditions, buff shield duration to 2 seconds (so it would be enough to block both CC attacks in 3rd phase, for example, but not enough for most other things to naturally get effective 50% damage reduction without player's intervention), to give distilled vengeance ability to recoil as much damage as Abigail blocked with shield (to justify increased cost compared to basic shield). 

I wish I knew why was my suggestion ignored, it seems well-thought to me. I'm sure my suggestion thread about elixir was seen by the developers, since I bumped it and even included link to associated bug report on bug tracker (bug was fixed). Was it too uncreative? Did they consider it too strong? But is basic concept of spectral cure-all weak enough and creative? What about blessed sisturn 3 that they themselves implemented? I guess I'll never have the answers. 

[Steorra]

36 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

I liked the shield it gave before, but the implementation was terrible. 

Maybe if the shield was granted the moment you insert 4 lune tree blossoms, and it had a cooldown when it fully depleted?

As for the player tag, just make it a part of the third alignment skill, when Abby is a gestalt she gets the player tag.

There's a reason why player tag should not be a thing related with Lunar power. The quote of Wendy when she interacted with enlightened crown said that enlightened power makes Abi seems more far to Wendy, it's a conflict that Lune blossoms makes Abi more closer to Wendy.

[Tranoze]

4 hours ago, Lardee said:

Lunar Flowers = decreased damage + player tag for Gestalt Abigail.

Dark Petals =  damage vulnerability + increase damage modifier for Shadow Abigail

 

 

What if people put both sisturn? In multiplayer there are cases where player A want lunar power, and player B want dark petals?

[RussoDaFederal]

27 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

What if people put both sisturn? In multiplayer there are cases where player A want lunar power, and player B want dark petals?

Also, you can have multiple sisturns in a single world. Which sisturn would count to the buff? All of them?

[CremeLover]

30 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

What if people put both sisturn? In multiplayer there are cases where player A want lunar power, and player B want dark petals?

2 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Also, you can have multiple sisturns in a single world. Which sisturn would count to the buff? All of them?

I can picture this could be easily done by attuning a Wendy to a sisturn in a similar way you can attune to a meat effigy or a Wendy skilltree grave.
Wether is 1 sisturn per Wendy or multiple Wendys can attune to the same sisturn would be up to the devs and unless Lardee has a different idea, this would be easy to achieve.

[Lardee]

5 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

I absolutely NO agree that! If I play with a beginner, do I have to say, "We're going to fight the boss, but you're a beginner so you don't join in"?

It was nearly impossible for beginners to survive the boss with Abigail, so I think it would be OK to make the normal Abigail tougher so that beginners could enjoy "Wendy"...

We're talking about solo.

What boss can a beginner not survive with Abigail while playing with others? Deerclops dies in 15 second and beginners can use potions. 

[Tranoze]

7 minutes ago, Lardee said:

We're talking about solo.

When? Where did we mention that we talking about solo.

8 minutes ago, Lardee said:

What boss can a beginner not survive with Abigail while playing with others? Deerclops dies in 15 second and beginners can use potions. 

Twins. Multiple instance of deerclops (unlike solo only need/want to kill DC once.). Crystal DC/Amored bearger. Afw. CC. Werepig... Basically all AOE bosses. 
Deerclops deal 150 damage to abi per 4 secs. So abi die in 16 secs. Include natural healing, abi die in 20 secs.

Yes multiple kill boss faster. But because how boss targeting, 5 more people doesnt mean boss die 5 times faster, other than toad because it is too slow. If they plan to dodge, they have to dodge in synch. If not, some of them have to face tank bosses. 

[SilverSpoon]

8 minutes ago, Lardee said:

We're talking about solo.

What boss can a beginner not survive with Abigail while playing with others? Deerclops dies in 15 second and beginners can use potions. 

It depends on beginner is how beginner. When I was beginner, my lowest record was Eye of Terror(I remember it was the Terraria crossover that I started DST)... It took me about five-six tries to learn how to keep Abigail alive.

I'll say it in advance it wasn't fun to me. I felt like I was holding the team back.

[Lardee]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

What if people put both sisturn? In multiplayer there are cases where player A want lunar power, and player B want dark petals?

Then whoever put the flowers in last dies.

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, Lardee said:

Then whoever put the flowers in last dies.

[hyoton123]

12 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Yes multiple kill boss faster. But because how boss targeting, 5 more people doesnt mean boss die 5 times faster, other than toad because it is too slow. If they plan to dodge, they have to dodge in synch. If not, some of them have to face tank bosses. 

If you have five people on a DST boss and are having trouble…

 

Hell, if you are having two people on a DST boss and are having trouble…

[Lardee]

10 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

When? Where did we mention that we talking about solo.

Twins. Multiple instance of deerclops (unlike solo only need/want to kill DC once.). Crystal DC/Amored bearger. Afw. CC. Werepig... Basically all AOE bosses. 
Deerclops deal 150 damage to abi per 4 secs. So abi die in 16 secs. Include natural healing, abi die in 20 secs.

Yes multiple kill boss faster. But because how boss targeting, 5 more people doesnt mean boss die 5 times faster, other than toad because it is too slow. If they plan to dodge, they have to dodge in synch. If not, some of them have to face tank bosses. 

If you want to talk about multiplayer we can.

Twins might do it, but it's far more likely that the beginner gets killed before Abigail. Multiple instances of deerclops aren't doing it with spectral cure all. Beginners aren't fighting Crystal/Armor bearger AFW CC etc.

I'm pretty sure a group of 5 will easily kill Deerclops in less than 10 seconds.

 

[Tranoze]

Just now, Lardee said:

Beginners aren't fighting Crystal/Armor bearger AFW CC etc.

They will eventually if they progress through the game. And the chance they get to fight crystal/armor is higher than afw/cc because rift is open for everyone if one decide to open. It not like they will fight them to death, they will try to run away if they low, but death is unavoidable in DST learning progress.

3 minutes ago, Lardee said:

I'm pretty sure a group of 5 will easily kill Deerclops in less than 10 seconds.

A group of 5 pros, yes. I have seen lots of mix of group of 5 fight DC. Bunch of wolf + stack up jelly can blast DC in 5 secs. But bunch of wendies with axes in hand and football helmet?