I don’t agree with the Sistern skills change

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, zzzzzzzzzzz said:

I'm a Wendy player, and I can't help you with advice on rag dolls.

So you were just trolling I see.

[hyoton123]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

No. It becomes meaningless When you ask particularly as Wendy who is same as Wes when without Abi.

No, I want to see what your gameplay is with abigail, because it’s clearly possible from what ive seen to use abigail during stun phases. So I want to see your gameplay so I can see what exactly are the other problems that you are talking about with abigail. I also want to see your typical gear etc for it.

 

And obviously wendy is better statted than wes to begin with. 

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Not sure about what same reason.

Abi was Wendy's sister. Spider follower was never be a human.

A ghost isn't human neither is wormwood wurt or wortox. I don't get this line of logic

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

No, I want to see what your gameplay is with abigail, because it’s clearly possible from what ive seen to use abigail during stun phases. So I want to see your gameplay so I can see what exactly are the other problems that you are talking about with abigail. I also want to see your typical gear etc for it.

 

And obviously wendy is better statted than wes to begin with. 

No? I was never see any videos from some of you who said Abi is OP for current beta. I have never posted a thread for claim that Abi is not OP, but some of you claimed. Then I have no idea about why there's a need to give evidence first to show why Abi is not OP rather than waiting the evidence from yours.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

就在刚才，神秘盒子说：

鬼魂不是人，艾草也不是草或牛蛔。我不明白这条逻辑

You can read the update announcement, which contains the reason why you need to add tags to Abi.

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

A ghost isn't human neither is wormwood wurt or wortox. I don't get this line of logic

Wormwood, Wurt and Wortox have many similar features to human. So does Abi. And Abi were actually a human before.

 

[Mysterious box]

Just now, zzzzzzzzzzz said:

You can read the update announcement, which contains the reason why you need to add tags to Abi.

So why doesn't Webber's spiders need it? Rather why are you gatekeeping this? I thought you didn't like that?

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

A ghost isn't human neither is wormwood wurt or wortox. I don't get this line of logic

Just a copy paste.

 

I guess the design intention is something like "lunar power provided a strength to unveil the fine line between live and death". And we already have living corpse of hounds and penguins by lunar power.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

就在刚才，神秘盒子说：

那么，为什么韦伯的蜘蛛不需要它呢？相反，你为什么要守门？我以为你不喜欢那个？

...You can go to other posts for suggestions in this regard and ask me what I do.

I've told you several times that you don't see it at all. What do you mean?

You are so strange.

 

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Just a copy paste.

 

I guess the design intention is something like "lunar power provided a strength to unveil the fine line between live and death". And we already have living corpse of hounds and penguins by lunar power.

I don't get what this proves?

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Wormwood, Wurt and Wortox have many similar features to human. So does Abi. And Abi were actually a human before.

 

They only share being pedal creatures and by that logic krampus merms, pig, and monkeys should all have the player tag.

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't get what this proves?

I don't need to prove anything for you.

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

A ghost isn't human neither is wormwood wurt or wortox. I don't get this line of logic

This is only a simply potential logic line which you asked about.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, zzzzzzzzzzz said:

...You can go to other posts for suggestions in this regard and ask me what I do.

I've told you several times that you don't see it at all. What do you mean?

You are so strange.

 

This constitutes harassment by the tos if you don't plan to add anything to the conversation outside of this.

Just now, Steorra said:

I don't need to provide anything for you.

This is only a simply potential logic line which you asked about.

You do if your trying to prevent a mechanic to be added otherwise I'll stand firm in this assertion if that doesn't bother you there's no reason to respond.

You can't say no and have your point be because I said so.

[Steorra]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You do if your trying to prevent a mechanic to be added otherwise I'll stand firm in this assertion if that doesn't bother you there's no reason to respond.

Confusing. 

You were said this. I said no about this and questioning that if your reason is true or not. Laterly we goes into the argument regarding the basis logic of "player tag" itself. Then I gave a potential logic line  which you asked for for explaining that why Abi could have player tag.

Not sure what more I should do.

[Mysterious box]

51 minutes ago, Steorra said:

BERNIE! Is still the most tanky follower for current stage. No buff needed. Especially Willow has got help about her downside for winter survival as same as current Wendy got for Abi survival.

I mean if you were arguing about if Webber should have player tag or not it would make sense for me maybe. But for spiders, I can't get any potential logic from it.

Seems like a  no to me.

Again if your saying no to adding the tags you need to explain why.

[kram124]

From a not massively experienced player perspective. Making Abigale take player damage is literally the main thing my friend and I were hoping for from the skill tree. 

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Seems like a  no to me.

Again if your saying no to adding the tags you need to explain why.

I've already explained it in details.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162363-i-don’t-agree-with-the-sistern-skills-change/?do=findComment&comment=1775565

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162363-i-don’t-agree-with-the-sistern-skills-change/?do=findComment&comment=1775568

[hyoton123]

18 minutes ago, Steorra said:

No? I was never see any videos from some of you who said Abi is OP for current beta. I have never posted a thread for claim that Abi is not OP, but some of you claimed. Then I have no idea about why there's a need to give evidence first to show why Abi is not OP rather than waiting the evidence from yours.

Well, we have plenty of vids here and on youtube that wendy is *fine* and often very strong. There is and has been zero video evidence that gives me an idea that supports complaints wendy needs more survivability for abigail than what exists, which is something video is perfect for showing. So if you want to show us how, when playing normally, you have problems with wendy then we can talk. But I’ve never actually seen anything that justifies what people are asking for for abigail, because AFAIK wendy was already in a good state on the whole. It wasnt like pre skilltree willow or winona who had little to work with or immense costs and no movability, or wortox being powercrept and having poor soul scalability, or woodie having a crippling penalty on the overworld. Wendy’s flaw was actually getting powercrept by generic gear.

Beyond that,I don’t like the focus on abigail survivability in the skilltree in general. It takes agency away from wendy which, ironically, rifts were  good about doing.  

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

I've already explained it in details.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162363-i-don’t-agree-with-the-sistern-skills-change/?do=findComment&comment=1775565

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162363-i-don’t-agree-with-the-sistern-skills-change/?do=findComment&comment=1775568

And as I said bernie is justified because that's his only specialty. 

Abigial also has potions that negate her death and shrug off damage while also having commands to better navigate combat and unsummon her to protect her. This also doesn't account to for spiders being effected by fear.

As it stands if abigial is the only one it's blatant favoritism 

[Steorra]

21 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Well, we have plenty of vids here and on youtube that wendy is *fine* and often very strong. There is and has been zero video evidence that gives me an idea that supports complaints wendy needs more survivability for abigail than what exists, which is something video is perfect for showing. 

Sorry, but for current stage there's no need for providing these evidence you're asked because Klei just made it, and it is what it is now.

You may try to go ask these evidence from Klei.

[SilverSpoon]

Logic and lore are trivial compared to how fun the game is to play. And it's all up to Klei to decide, and Klei gave Abigail a player tag this time and explained it in detail. And we think new Abigail with player tag is much more fun the game is to play than before.

If you want to change it, discuss it with Klei, don't take it out on us.

In my opinion, this update is appropriate. Player tag allows all the people who have complained about Abigail's vulnerability to get a decent defense, and allows all the people who were saying "Abigail is totally A-OK, buff makes her to be OP" to save 3 skill tree points by their own skill. And best of all, I'm so glad Wendy no longer have to give Abigail a 5 minute timeout.

[Tranoze]

3 hours ago, Dingle said:

Here's a video of @Tarnishedmax fighting armored bearger! She kills it really fast, check it out:

If you watch video closely you can see:
- He only spawn Abi when bearger stun and deal extra damage then.
- The rest of the fight he deal damage without abi.
- Not sure the dps during stun with the summon/unsummon abi from wendy is better than a wilson that doesnt summon abi and attack full time during the stun.
But dps without abi when dodge/attack pharse totally lower than wilson (little bit).

The fight last for 2 mins while the same @Tarnishedmax take 1 mins 8 secs to kill armored bearger with Walter.

I dont know if he has a simple video of just wilson for comparison but totally not really fast when compare to Walter.

Consider if he fight perfectly, i guess he will take about 1 min 50 secs as wilson, 1 mins 55 secs as wendy (he failed to dodge once so i assume perfect run would be like this.) and 2 mins 5 secs as wes. This is my guess but i hope he can do some wilson run and wes for us to really compare.

[Dingle]

9 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

If you watch video closely you can see:
- He only spawn Abi when bearger stun and deal extra damage then.
- The rest of the fight he deal damage without abi.
- Not sure the dps during stun with the summon/unsummon abi from wendy is better than a wilson that doesnt summon abi and attack full time during the stun.
But dps without abi when dodge/attack pharse totally lower than wilson (little bit).

The fight last for 2 mins while the same @Tarnishedmax take 1 mins 8 secs to kill armored bearger with Walter.

I dont know if he has a simple video of just wilson for comparison but totally not really fast when compare to Walter.

If you look closely at the Walter video, you can see she attacks Armored Bearger with a ranged weapon.

[Tranoze]

Just now, Dingle said:

If you look closely at the Walter video, you can see she attacks Armored Bearger with a ranged weapon.

yes i know. But again we dont have pure wilson video to compare so the really fast is just the man being fast, not the character being fast. He probably can kill armored bearger with wes in around 2 mins if he wanted to also.

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

yes i know. But again we dont have pure wilson video to compare so the really fast is just the man being fast, not the character being fast. He probably can kill armored bearger with wes in around 2 mins if he wanted to also.

Wilson takes 2:40 with a Reaper, looking at Youtube for videos. I presume Wes is slower.

So pausing to summon abby is worth it.

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

Wilson takes 2:40 with a Reaper, looking at Youtube for videos. I presume Wes is slower.

So pausing to summon abby is worth it.

is the video fighting style exactly the same as how tanished max did it? since you didnt give the link i cant know. Cuz he perfectly dodge armored bearger and inflict best dps at the same time.