I don’t agree with the Sistern skills change

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Sacco said:

i'm just saying that abi is now op because you don't have to interact with the boss to leave him at half health.

I can replicate what lardee,  because it's something anyone can do.

abi is indeed op.

If Abi is indeed OP, it is reasonable to see how OP Abi helps you to overcome something you can't do without her OP version.

I'm wondering why you can't give any evidence about the questioning directly towards you.

Did you have accustomed to hide behind other people when you take part in an argument?

[Sacco]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

If Abi is indeed OP, it is reasonable to see how OP Abi helps you to overcome something you can't do without her OP version.

I'm wondering why you can't give any evidence about the questioning directly towards you.

Did you have accustomed to hide behind other people when you take part in an argument?

i've read the messages once again.

I think i just clicked the wrong message to reply to.

Sorry

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

If Abi is indeed OP, it is reasonable to see how OP Abi helps you to overcome something you can't do without her OP version.

I'm wondering why you can't give any evidence about the questioning directly towards you.

Did you have accustomed to hide behind other people when you take part in an argument?

Let's start from saying that every character can kill a boss.

It's just that with abi you destroy them and you don't even interact with them.

[Steorra]

8 minutes ago, Sacco said:

i've read the messages once again.

I think i just clicked the wrong message to reply to.

Sorry

Lol. I was just questioning you repeatedly to provide some video evidence from your own since you are avoiding the questioning continuously.

This would help us to know where your opinion started with.

8 minutes ago, Sacco said:

It's just that with abi you destroy them and you don't even interact with them.

This is same for spiders, murts and even BERNIE!. 

Not sure what position you are in for current stage. Are you saying that every follower need to nerf but let we start it from Wendy?

[SilverSpoon]

If you don't like an in-game perk and you don't stop attacking people who like that, I have no choice but to activate trap card "Just don't use it"... and you will get extra 3 skill tree points for it too!

[lio516]

I do not agree with the fish people skill tree, suggest a callback，All it takes is a few kelp to kill a monster。op

你不必这样做。没有人强迫你

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, lio516 said:

I do not agree with the fish people skill tree, suggest a callback，All it takes is a few kelp to kill a monster。op

你不必这样做。没有人强迫你

I agree.

[Steorra]

39 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I agree.

nerf you first

[Jakepeng99]

28 minutes ago, Steorra said:

nerf you first

I want Wurt nerfed more than Wendy so yeah i agree.

[hyoton123]

21 hours ago, Tranoze said:

We kinda dont care about the loot, we just want a fun fight. Some wendy main here pointed this out and i agree with them - Wendy player just want to fight together with abigail vs those bosses. The fight wouldnt be as fun if wendy fight alone, or abi fight alone.

One, you can even pre skilltree, you just have to manage abigail in different ways during the fights. Theres plenty of video evidence out there.

 

Two, some fights are going to be bad for abigail. Do you think wurt gets a pass on aoe? Do you think walter gets a free pass if he really doesnt like taking unavoidable damage? Wendy has good matchups and bad matchups. This is good game design. If your goal is always to keep abigail out with zero healing and maneuevering or positioning, shes gonna die on some fights, the same way someone standing in one place (non wigfrid division) deserves to lose. You can pull her in for stun phases on lunar bearger and crystal clops, and even if she does die…so what? Resummon her. She’d die anyway at 1 or 600 health according to you. I’ve never actually seen exactly *how* people who complain about  wanting to fight with her, want exactly to fight with her. You already do this in the game.

 

And drops matter in actual content. 

[Jakepeng99]

1 minute ago, hyoton123 said:

Do you think wurt gets a pass on aoe?

Actually she does. Her merms are just too durable and busted.

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

One, you can even pre skilltree, you just have to manage abigail in different ways during the fights. Theres plenty of video evidence out there.

not everyone have the highest skills to manage pre-skill abi for lunar bearger or even a generally bearger combat.

the fun of fighting with sister for Wendy and Abi should not only for veteran.

18 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Wendy has good matchups and bad matchups.

ignore Abi, Wendy still have her downside of Shadow creatures.

if you moving the discussion into beffalo, then the beffalo have its own downside as well.

20 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Do you think wurt gets a pass on aoe?

sorry, but both wurt and webber has a pass on aoe.

[hyoton123]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

not everyone have the highest skills to manage pre-skill abi for lunar bearger or even a generally bearger combat.

the fun of fighting with sister for Wendy and Abi should not only for veteran.

ignore Abi, Wendy still have her downside of Shadow creatures.

if you moving the discussion into beffalo, then the beffalo have its own downside as well.

sorry, but both wurt and webber has a pass on aoe.

 

-Bearger is probably actually harder than armored bearger because no stun phase,  but it's also bearger. Nobody farms bearger. Pre rift it's arguable if you even want to kill bearger.

 

-There are no particularly hard skills with pulling abigail in or out. Maybe a little game knowledge for knowing you can drag flower on her, but you can still just resummon when she dies. It costs a cooked cactus each time.

 

-Honestly, the fact you think an extra hit on shadow creatures are a major concern (when she has sanity drain resistance) kind of gives me a better idea of the level of play that we are talking. Yeah, I guess if you're having trouble with shadow creatures, you shouldn't be on wendy.

 

-Most people seem to train beefalo anyway. I didn't bring it up because I don't like them for combat against knockback enemies, but having *a* beefalo for general use is pretty common for a world that's going any length, and wendy doesn't have speed options so it's her best move.

 

-Wurt and webber have to deal with AOE, by either building more minions or buffing them. Wendy can't build more minions, but the benefit is that she gets a lot more personal power from a damage debuff and portable minion. The price you pay is backloaded, not frontloaded like wurt and webber. All three are different from having a ranged option like walter where you just do not engage with the content you don't like. The survivors who use minions are engaging with DST in a different form than other survivors do, and that's fine. (Maybe not wurt.)

[Steorra]

17 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

-Honestly, the fact you think an extra hit on shadow creatures are a major concern (when she has sanity drain resistance) kind of gives me a better idea of the level of play that we are talking. Yeah, I guess if you're having trouble with shadow creatures, you shouldn't be on wendy.

It's your turn to show us how to easily dealt with 2 rift actived shark + 2 terrorbeak as Wendy.

 

17 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

-Wurt and webber have to deal with AOE, by either building more minions or buffing them. Wendy can't build more minions, but the benefit is that she gets a lot more personal power from a damage debuff and portable minion. 

Yeah you already know wurt is far stronger than Wendy I guess. But Webber?

Do you know that spiders are far cheaper which only consuming time but with nurses they are almost permanent? 

And I guess you would think Wendy personal power is far stronger than Webber swarm.

https://b23.tv/3pweBVj

Time to fix balance opinions about Webber.

17 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

-Honestly, the fact you think an extra hit on shadow creatures are a major concern (when she has sanity drain resistance) kind of gives me a better idea of the level of play that we are talking. Yeah, I guess if you're having trouble with shadow creatures, you shouldn't be on wendy.

Also this is more debatable when someone say that 'Nice Wortox still has their downside of halved food effectiveness' when nice build was chosen by many players for end game (when you have endless food), but at the same time here's someone claiming that "Wendy with 0.75 modified is not a true downside when pushing the ruin".

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

Yeah you already know wurt is far stronger than Wendy I guess. But Webber?

Do you know that spiders are far cheaper which only consuming time but with nurses they are almost permanent? 

And I guess you would think Wendy personal power is far stronger than Webber swarm.

https://b23.tv/3pweBVj

Time to fix balance opinions about Webber.

They aren't cheaper. Each shattered spider costs 2 moon shards. They don't respawn like merms. They don't drop moon shards when they die. Each one that dies, go out and mine another 2 moon shards. (Nurses are fairly cheap at 2 honey, however.)

Video shows none of the prep time that went into that. Webber's spiders also cause lag, which tends to get him kicked from servers as a bonus.

More importantly, if toadstool is allowed to spawn sporecaps, the spiders all immediately panic and die. (2 moon shards each, remember.) You won't have time to clear the sporecaps because the nurses have stopped doing their job.

Compare to just throwing a bunch of bunnymen at it as anyone else. Same sporecap fail condition, but at the cost of some carrots you found lying around. Now use the new and improved Abigail on top of that. Get in there with a beefalo using a greater than Wolfgang damage multiplier if you want to really overdo it.

[Siren11]

7 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

They aren't cheaper. Each shattered spider costs 2 moon shards. They don't respawn like merms. They don't drop moon shards when they die. Each one that dies, go out and mine another 2 moon shards. (Nurses are fairly cheap at 2 honey, however.)

Video shows none of the prep time that went into that. Webber's spiders also cause lag, which tends to get him kicked from servers as a bonus.

More importantly, if toadstool is allowed to spawn sporecaps, the spiders all immediately panic and die. (2 moon shards each, remember.) You won't have time to clear the sporecaps because the nurses have stopped doing their job.

Compare to just throwing a bunch of bunnymen at it as anyone else. Same sporecap fail condition, but cheaper. Now use the new and improved Abigail on top of that. Really get in there with a beefalo using a greater than Wolfgang damage multiplier.

Toadstool does the same damage to mobs and players already, right? Does Blessed Sisturn III even work on that? And not everyone will have access to affinities for higher DPS, nor will everyone want to tame a Beefalo.

Blessed Sisturn III should probably be tweaked, but skill trees should increase a character’s max potential imo. The bonus is that you can play the more or less the same way as before if you don’t like certain skills or buffs.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Actually she does. Her merms are just too durable and busted.

I'm about to say something i feel will probably be extremely controversial but the problem with Wurt more so comes down to the fact there isn't a follower recruitment cap. Because realistically you can't balance her around having 30+ merms while also considering most people don't have the time to make more than 20 a follower cap would allow for Wurt to be properly balanced around minion wise. Which I think the number should probably be something like 10 at a time however in the same vein it would require a ton of tweaking of efficiency.

This does however cause a problem in that Wurt and Webber will need greater levels of distinction between their gameplays follower wise.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

Yeah you already know wurt is far stronger than Wendy I guess. But Webber?

Do you know that spiders are far cheaper which only consuming time but with nurses they are almost permanent? 

And I guess you would think Wendy personal power is far stronger than Webber swarm.

https://b23.tv/3pweBVj

Time to fix balance opinions about Webber.

This is just blatantly false the resources required for Webber's best followers are expensive to gather in mass and duping spiders not only takes a long time but their spawners can't be moved in terms of follower characters Wendy's has always been the cheapest by far.

Also while Wurt is stronger that's by design she has the heaviest initial grind of follower characters in exchange for a large payoff really that's kinda the main issue though there are too many minion characters. Which honestly wasn't as much of a issue before all this skill tree powercreep but now the lines are so blurred that by the end of it they'll likely all become different shades of the same character.

[Steorra]

5 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

They aren't cheaper. Each shattered spider costs 2 moon shards. They don't respawn like merms. .

【韦伯如何无限制的获取破碎蜘蛛?-哔哩哔哩】 https://b23.tv/rKOWJ7v

Not sure what you are talking about.

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This is just blatantly false the resources required for Webber's best followers are expensive to gather in mass and duping spiders not only takes a long time but their spawners can't be moved in terms of follower characters Wendy's has always been the cheapest by far.

Also while Wurt is stronger that's by design she has the heaviest initial grind of follower characters in exchange for a large payoff really that's kinda the main issue though there are too many minion characters. Which honestly wasn't as much of a issue before all this skill tree powercreep but now the lines are so blurred that by the end of it they'll likely all become different shades of the same character.

Check the video above. 

[Mysterious box]

19 minutes ago, Steorra said:

【韦伯如何无限制的获取破碎蜘蛛?-哔哩哔哩】 https://b23.tv/rKOWJ7v

Not sure what you are talking about.

Check the video above. 

I want to bring up that's actually a very bad way to get spider long term since those aren't a renewable resource so mining them only works so many times also lunar spiders are actually not one of his better spider type followers.

[Steorra]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I want to bring up that's actually a very bad way to get spider long term since those aren't a renewable resource so mining them only works so many times also lunar spiders are actually not one of his better spider type followers.

Not sure what difference between these two type spiders for collection.

【韦伯如何利用蛛网岩无限制获取喷吐蜘蛛？-哔哩哔哩】 https://b23.tv/Itrpwqa

And the renew point is not a valid point when we talking about the balance of fighter characters.

If you played in multiplayer world, the most important thing is benefit for team but not personal power on fighting. Wickerbottom would be think as OP rather than Wolfgang in this scenario.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

Not sure what difference between these two type spiders for collection.

【韦伯如何利用蛛网岩无限制获取喷吐蜘蛛？-哔哩哔哩】 https://b23.tv/Itrpwqa

This one is the usual one people go for but generally speaking the difference was in the other video they were rushing the spawns slowly destroying a non renewable resource that aside the thing about this method is to get his best followers he  has to camp out that location for spitters that have a 33% spawn chance it's not hard to do but it's the only way to get access to them without paying the resource cost.

[Bumber64]

On 12/14/2024 at 1:14 PM, Siren11 said:

Toadstool does the same damage to mobs and players already, right? Does Blessed Sisturn III even work on that? And not everyone will have access to affinities for higher DPS, nor will everyone want to tame a Beefalo.

Then it doesn't help with toadstool specifically, no.

Cursed vexation brings beefalo damage on par with Wolfgang. Wendy now handles AFW better than ever, so affinity is even less an issue. (I've also been told unlocking affinities with one survivor unlocks them for everyone?) She's got access to overwhelming follower strats as much as any other survivor.

Sure, not everyone wants to play as Wolfgang or tame a beefalo. Not everyone wants to create an army of followers, either. So what's the actual point being made here? It certainly isn't that Wendy is weaker than Webber for a given investment. Is it that you can't steamroll bosses without putting in effort?

22 hours ago, Steorra said:

【韦伯如何无限制的获取破碎蜘蛛?-哔哩哔哩】 https://b23.tv/rKOWJ7v

Not sure what you are talking about.

Okay, then you've got to create a bunch of bundle wraps (outside Winter's Feast) and carry your army from lunar island to the caves. Still more effort than bunnymen, with more time wasted for screwing up.

[Dingle]

10 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Then it doesn't help with toadstool specifically, no.

Cursed vexation brings beefalo damage on par with Wolfgang. Wendy now handles AFW better than ever, so affinity is even less an issue. (I've also been told unlocking affinities with one survivor unlocks them for everyone?) She's got access to overwhelming follower strats as much as any other survivor.

Sure, not everyone wants to play as Wolfgang or tame a beefalo. Not everyone wants to create an army of followers, either. So what's the actual point being made here? It certainly isn't that Wendy is weaker than Webber for a given investment. Is it that you can't steamroll bosses without putting in effort?

Okay, then you've got to create a bunch of bundle wraps (outside Winter's Feast) and carry your army from lunar island to the caves. Still more effort than bunnymen, with more time wasted for screwing up.

Unlocking an affinity with one survivor unlocks them for all survivors, yes.

Including ones with no skill tree yet.

[Myrem]

On 2024/12/14 at AM1点44分, zzzzzzzzzzz said:

I'm a Wendy player, and I can't help you with advice on rag doll

别和他扯了，小熊有位面实体抵抗，他怎么不给阿比盖尔加个位面实体抵抗？2000血+位面实体抵抗，完爆阿比盖尔，他不知道小熊有实体抵抗吗

[hyoton123]

On 12/14/2024 at 9:56 AM, Steorra said:

It's your turn to show us how to easily dealt with 2 rift actived shark + 2 terrorbeak as Wendy.

 

Yeah you already know wurt is far stronger than Wendy I guess. But Webber?

Do you know that spiders are far cheaper which only consuming time but with nurses they are almost permanent? 

And I guess you would think Wendy personal power is far stronger than Webber swarm.

https://b23.tv/3pweBVj

Time to fix balance opinions about Webber.

Also this is more debatable when someone say that 'Nice Wortox still has their downside of halved food effectiveness' when nice build was chosen by many players for end game (when you have endless food), but at the same time here's someone claiming that "Wendy with 0.75 modified is not a true downside when pushing the ruin".

-Okay, my solution to not deal with two lurking terrors and two terrorbeaks as any character is the same: Don't get in that situation. and for fighting them, you do the same thing as everyone else except willow: Kite and bop. But I can't say I have ever gotten in that problem because I am pretty cautious in the nightmare phase.

 

-Spiders are not "almost permanent" (minus nurses), and panic. In contrast Abigail doesn't panic, doesn't eat up screen real estate, causes minimal lag, can be directed pretty easily, no resource cost if she dies, doesn't eat drops, is available day 1 with basically no change in functionality, moves between shards without eating your inventory room getting picked up, etc.

 

-Video shows only the fight, not the setup. Abigail doesn't require setup. The price is that she doesn't scale like webber does. That's intentional. 

 

-Hoo boy, Wendy in the ruins. 0.75 physical damage penalty is well balanced out by permanent 40 damage and making splumonkeys a joke. If you're aggroing shadows that's your business.

 

And yeah, Wortox gets half food stat efficiency. All the characters who have dietary restrictions *should* have very good bonuses to make up for it. Wendy has a flaw which isn't even a flaw if abigail is dealing damage.

Anyway, I am kind of curious how much impact people are finding blessed sisturn 3 because aside from spectral cureall it seems like a noob trap. My understanding is that abigail would need bernie level HP and healing to stay alive which is, uh, not granted by that skill.