Honestly i cant wait for them to be done with skilltrees.

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

Yes. We do accept the opinions of people who have never played dont starve. If the opinion is bad it just wont get implemented. You cant prove the other person hasnt played for 100 or a thousand hours, so you're just assuming thet havent.

 

This is not a hard concept to grasp. Being rude about other people having opinions is inherently bad. You are in no position to decide if someones opinion is good or bad so you should let klei do their job and ignore any opinions you dont like.

On one hand, I disagree because it fills the beta forum with useless nonsense. This makes earnest discussion hard, when other people are just spouting garbage that is easily disproven merely by playing the game. It's hard to ignore if there's a lot of it, mixed into one big lump.

On the other hand, I agree because it fills the beta forum with useless nonsense. This can be amusing to make fun of.

Looking forward to topics like

"Heres why i think wendy should get a way to do aoe damage"

"Why should wortox get panflute when he gets slingshot"

"walter should not have weredog form"

[RussoDaFederal]

38 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

do you seriously belive that someone with no idea what hes talkin about sould be taken seriously?

That's not the point. They're free to make the most horrendous suggestion they can think of, if they're gonna be taken seriously or not is a totally different topic. The point is that no one should need to "show their credentials" to make a suggestion. Playing a character for a long time doesn't make you an expert in how the game should be balanced in general.

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

The point is not specifically that they know more about the mechanics of the characters than you. They know more about the lore and the intentions for the character than you. They often design the skilltree with that stuff in mind.

Also this. Let's not try to teach the devs how their game should be developed. That's a huge "um aktchually" move. Don't do that. Anyone's free to make suggestions and we know Klei listens, but come on. Let's not be arrogant.

[Mr Giggio]

12 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

But can we please have a little more respect and understanding for klei.

 P    R    E    A    C   H

 

5 hours ago, whiteking said:

If developers have a better understanding of games than players, then the game developers should be the ones who win the championship in the competition every year.

You are so far from being an adult eh. Its called work.

[Echsrick]

thinkin about it, was the last skill tree beta update alsol this....how would you say it? chaos? toxic? nonsense random topics out of nowhere?

[Maxil20]

3 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

The main point of this thread is to complain about toxicity. If your first reaction is to argue...

you might be part of the problem.

I really don’t think people realize this, sadly. Some people are inherently toxic and disrespectful and it really doesn’t sit well with me that nothing just, happens. At worst, the thread gets locked and people just move on as if nothing happened.

It’s been like this since, I don’t know, 2019? Different people have been at play from then vs. now, but I feel there’s been an unhealthy line between getting constructive feedback vs. epicly OWNING the devs/person in question or just being disrespectful for differing opinions, for like, no reason at all???

It makes it hard for me to want to give feedback in a polite matter because I know devwork is difficult, only to then get quote messaged by someone and they are like “why didn’t Klei do this earlier? Are they stupid?”

[Kwaik]

7 hours ago, whiteking said:

Stupid idea.
A game is created by several to several hundred people, and played by thousands or even millions or even billions of people. There are a large number of game experts among players who are tens of thousands of times more than game developers, and they can discover the limits of each character.
If developers have a better understanding of games than players, then the game developers should be the ones who win the championship in the competition every year.

In fact, it also happened last year.
From the proportion of players, Chinese players do make up an absolute majority, so it doesn't seem strange that their comments bombard forums when they want to express their opinions.
Perhaps what should be considered strange is, "Why does a player group that occupies an absolute majority rarely appear on KLEI's forums

I'd assume because the team is Canadian and speaks English, and because Chinese players presumably speak some form of Chinese 

There's a huge percentage of south American players in dst too, and I never see them on this board. Or if they are I assume we don't notice because many speak English 

 

The TLDR is on English speaking forums, you end up with mostly English speaking people 

7 hours ago, whiteking said:

Stupid idea.
A game is created by several to several hundred people, and played by thousands or even millions or even billions of people. There are a large number of game experts among players who are tens of thousands of times more than game developers, and they can discover the limits of each character.
If developers have a better understanding of games than players, then the game developers should be the ones who win the championship in the competition every year.

In fact, it also happened last year.
From the proportion of players, Chinese players do make up an absolute majority, so it doesn't seem strange that their comments bombard forums when they want to express their opinions.
Perhaps what should be considered strange is, "Why does a player group that occupies an absolute majority rarely appear on KLEI's forums

I'd assume because the team is Canadian and speaks English, and because Chinese players presumably speak some form of Chinese 

There's a huge percentage of south American players in dst too, and I never see them on this board. Or if they are I assume we don't notice because many speak English 

 

The TLDR is on English speaking forums, you end up with mostly English speaking people 

[Maxposting]

1 hour ago, Maxil20 said:

I really don’t think people realize this, sadly. Some people are inherently toxic and disrespectful and it really doesn’t sit well with me that nothing just, happens. At worst, the thread gets locked and people just move on as if nothing happened.

Looking back, I probably slipped sometimes into a pointless-argument mindset.

I am probably biased (because I haven't received any in the last few years, such a kind angel, i am ), but have there even been any warnings and forum punishments issued lately? I know posts get deleted and threads get locked, but then I see the very same offenders doing the same-ish behaviours.

What certainly doesn't help is the polarization between people when it comes to disagreeing on stuff like game balance and these disagreements do tend to stick around, leading to just... pettiness. And that leads to just more pettiness from others who wouldn't have gotten involved. And so on.

[IAmAFurrz]

this is just forum behavior. when idiots get a voice, they sure like to yell to be 'the right one (TM)' rather than adding anything to any discussion

 

[Wormboi]

The state of the forums is just awful right now in general. Most threads are just talking about nerfing x character or talking about how bad skill trees are. I stoped bothering reading the beta because thats just dumpster fire too.

[RussoDaFederal]

1 hour ago, Kwaik said:

There's a huge percentage of south American players in dst too, and I never see them on this board

Oh we're here alright.

1 hour ago, Kwaik said:

Or if they are I assume we don't notice because many speak English

Yup.

2 hours ago, Kwaik said:

I'd assume because the team is Canadian and speaks English, and because Chinese players presumably speak some form of Chinese

Yeah, I don't wanna be the "speak English!!" guy, English is not even my first language either, but what did the Chinese fanbase expect? Or not to generalize them, just this vocal part of the Chinese fanbase complaining they're not heard. I mean, apparently there's an unofficial Chinese DST forum, at least that's what I assumed when I saw their screenshots, and that's where they share most stuff instead of here, which is understandable. But it's not a matter of Klei ignoring a huge part of their fanbase, it's just a language barrier, and they can't be expected to keep an eye on unofficial forums. I'm sure the Chinese players that came here to give their opinion were heard. There are a lot of Russian players as well, and Klei knows this, but they can't be expected to look up unofficial Russian forums either. They're not ignoring people from other countries, they just don't speak the same language and don't access unofficial forums. It's 2024, Google Translate has existed for many years now, even if it has some shortcomings. People don't even need to learn English to be heard, there are browser extensions that automatically translate everything to your language.

[PunkShark]

Despite the ruckus these updates causes i do think they're a good thing for the characters and makes them more fun and engaging. Balance wise can always be argued. But the fact that a lot of characters issues are being fixed, mine was personally Woodie. Makes me very happy.

So, i think it's worth it in the end. Just make sure to keep yourself calm and collected. Take a break from the forums sometimes, it can be a bit of a headache, but Klei won't change a character because of high demand. They know what they want out of their game and characters, what they all stand for and they'll stay with their vision. And the community won't change that unless it is reasonable and makes sense.

Another thing is to also just.. ignore the folks who make a thread that isn't very constructive either. We don't have to argue with everything we see. Though it can be difficult sometimes. I get that.

[Well-met]

Everyone thought the refreshes were the end of character care. Wilson ruined it all.

and now instead of adding biomes, making shards less buggy, creating new forge-like events, developing the story, having even more new characters we're stuck with refresh deux because it's consuming almost all of their man power.

[aidankocherhans]

9 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

Every opinion is equally valid. All of them. If someone has only played wendy for 2 hours, their opinion is useful when considering new players.

Most players haven't touched Walter, but may play him if the skill tree looks good enough. So it does matter what those players think, if the tree doesn't appeal to them and only to existing Walter players the number of Walter players will stay the same.

[readkey]

7 hours ago, Echsrick said:

thinkin about it, was the last skill tree beta update alsol this....how would you say it? chaos? toxic? nonsense random topics out of nowhere?

Seems to me everytime 

[whiteking]

8 hours ago, Mr Giggio said:

 P    R    E    A    C   H

 

You are so far from being an adult eh. Its called work.

You haven't even seen the occupation of playing games live on the Internet. It's really sad. Your home may not be connected to the Internet.

[Baark0]

i think skill trees are a cool concept but tbh i think itd be better for the game if characters had just gotten smaller updates to fix problems with them post-rework, kinda like what happened with wortox a while back, cause now a lot of development time that could be going towards actual content is spent on updating characters again

[NotGabriel]

10 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I really don’t think people realize this, sadly. Some people are inherently toxic and disrespectful and it really doesn’t sit well with me that nothing just, happens. At worst, the thread gets locked and people just move on as if nothing happened.

It’s been like this since, I don’t know, 2019? Different people have been at play from then vs. now, but I feel there’s been an unhealthy line between getting constructive feedback vs. epicly OWNING the devs/person in question or just being disrespectful for differing opinions, for like, no reason at all???

It makes it hard for me to want to give feedback in a polite matter because I know devwork is difficult, only to then get quote messaged by someone and they are like “why didn’t Klei do this earlier? Are they stupid?”

I’ve been real quiet on the forums lately because my first instinct seeing these aggressive and mean posts is to bite back. I don’t want the stress that creates for everyone including myself.

Everything is exaggerated to these ridiculous lengths. Is the critical thinking really so lost that we have to prove that we do in fact play the game of the forums we are posting in? Do people REALLY believe that Timmy on his mom’s phone just casually stumbled upon the Klei Forums, made an account, navigated to the Don’t Starve Together Beta Branch, and made a suggestion that would have the DIRE impact of maybe being read by a dev? Be so for real guys.

It’s a level of dramatization that I just get exhausted from looking at. I don’t like that my favorite community is so miserable every single beta cycle. It’s like watching family argue over politics.

[SilverSpoon]

14 hours ago, Dingle said:

You: "Wigfrid got updated, too, guys!"

Patch Notes: "BATTLE STINGER LASTS FOR 2 MORE SECONDS"

Hey! That's actually a pretty buff! to enemy whom it works.

And Willow got update too.

[purelove]

15 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

I'm gonna respond to a few counterpoints in a minute. But first i really want to highlight:

 

The main point of this thread is to complain about toxicity. If your first reaction is to argue...

you might be part of the problem.

 

The most common one i noticed is:

 

"I DO in fact know the character better than klei, how dare you"

 

Klei gets feedback from hundreds of players including you, and designed the original character. Not to mention every developer has significant playtime themselves. They know a lot about the character. Even if you theoretically have done research and DO understand [character] better than the developers, that means nothing.

You are one person, the developers are not catering to you specifically. Your ideas are one in a hundred. If klei is not following your specific desires for the update, then they just disagree with you. They make the decisions, and they are allowed to disagree with the direction you want to take [character] in. They are not developers who have never played the character before. They know plenty to make good plans and execute them.

The point is not specifically that they know more about the mechanics of the characters than you. They know more about the lore and the intentions for the character than you. They often design the skilltree with that stuff in mind.

Chill out please.

 

"Opinions should be gatekept" (paraphrasing)

Every opinion is equally valid. All of them. If someone has only played wendy for 2 hours, their opinion is useful when considering new players. If the player has played other characters but never touched wendy, its useful when considering people who are interested in playing wendy. If its someone who has been playing wendy for 9000 hours, its useful when discussing extremely experienced players.

But each of those players experiences should be equally prioritized. You dont want to drive off any individual player and you need to provide something to each. 

 

Every player is individually equally as important as other players. Therefore their opinions are also equally important. Yes experienced players will probably make suggestions with more of wendy in mind, but that does not mean their suggestion has more merit. Klei already exists as a filter for opinions, bad opinions wont be implemented as is. Good ones probably wont either.

Its very rare that klei actually implements a suggestion as suggested, but they often take inspiration from suggestions.

Keep that in mind and please try to be more welcoming to new forumgoers. Gatekeeping is a bad look for all of us.

 

 

 

If instead of taking advice as a benchmark that it's more accurate or that it makes the game better, we're taking everyone's advice, shouldn't the production team actively take advice from people who don't play the game?

In fact, a lot of the players who give Wendy's advice are, in essence, in between the skilled players who play Wendy and the passers-by who don't play the game, and even closer to the passers-by who don't play the game, because Wendy is definitely a character that needs a lot of training.

Actions speak louder than words, the designer who designed Wendy should do a lot of Wendy's actual combat in order to understand Wendy's predicament, this is the most direct and fundamental opinion, if you think designers know Wendy better, then designers should play Wendy more than all of us skilled players.

You can ask the designer who designed Wendy to record live the whole boss challenge before Wendy has no skill tree.

[Tychos]

It's both hilarious and sad that people LEGITIMATELY think they know more about the character or game just because... They play it? Wow.

 

I've noticed that this forum is mainly veteran players, and that it's such a tight community that it often kinda forgets about the other sides. Maxwell is considered to be one of if not the most powerful, but to new and casual players, he's just a frail book nerd that can't take a hit. Wortox is extremely different on PC where you can see other's health with mods and aim your teleport more easily when compared to console that can't do any of that. People that play in big servers or multiple friends forgetting how it is for those that play solo or duo. Oh and my absolute favorite "I've played X for so long, X is my main and therefore I speak for all X players."

 

In a way, it's sweet to see how deeply people care and love this game. But it's also really disappointing the self centered way some choose to show that love.

[Lucas Rego]

To be honest I'm scared...

My problem is that we have had Characters updates for the last years, at least 3 I believe, and this might be a problem for the future, because:

It created a habit of expecting Rework/Skill Tree

Last update we didn't have any Skill tree and the community only complained about that, I just fear that after finishing Skill Tree, people are so use to that, that they just complain more about the updates...

Changing a character creates hype, but what will they do after that? I'm genuinely concerned.

If they focus on LORE and GAME PROGRESSION added to the game I think maybe it could help, Im afraid though

[Well-met]

19 minutes ago, Lucas Rego said:

To be honest I'm scared...

My problem is that we have had Characters updates for the last years, at least 3 I believe

far far longer, friend.

[Lucas Rego]

20 minutes ago, Well-met said:

far far longer, friend.

Indeed, so we are addicted to that in some sort of way hahahaha

 

[Hollow soul 3]

I think it's pretty easy to remain hopeful. They've been fleshing out the constant pretty well. The character updates help the characters to explore the new content, I don't think any of us should expect it to be the end point.

[Bumber64]

12 hours ago, Tychos said:

It's both hilarious and sad that people LEGITIMATELY think they know more about the character or game just because... They play it? Wow.

I've noticed that this forum is mainly veteran players, and that it's such a tight community that it often kinda forgets about the other sides. Maxwell is considered to be one of if not the most powerful, but to new and casual players, he's just a frail book nerd that can't take a hit.

It's all fun and games until somebody suggests the way to nerf Maxwell is to have the Codex Umbra be changed to require nightmare fuel.