Why Can't Woby Be Better Than a Beefalo?

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, Copyafriend said:

You do not need to complete the game to form an opinion on a character.

No? for some character who are complex and need high skill to finish some specific target, they DO need more experience to know how really they are - for example: Maxwell, Wendy, etc.

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

They've announced an elixer that brings abigail back to full strength instantly, this covers abigails weakness.

Here's another important thing - For some complex characters, there are extremely difference about "downside" between newbie and experienced player visions.

For those who have basic skills of Wendy, Abi's death punishment and leveling issue are never a "downside" of Wendy. The true downside which need to solve is Abi's surviving ability when facing some AOE bosses.

Also fighting shadow creature in ruins is another downside of Wendy.

[Jakepeng99]

6 hours ago, Y0sH said:

Disclaimer: I am in NO WAY a Walter expert or can accurately speak to his current or base issues.

As far as I know the goal with Woby is make him a good alternative to taming a Beefalo WITHOUT him being outright better than one right? (Could be wrong idk.) 

If this is the premise behind Woby, I question why can't he be stronger than one? Walter players suffer from a rather quiet playerbase due to not having a large playerbase to begin with. 

Here are some of my suggestions (mind you they may be terrible)

1. Make the monster meat thing a requirement only when you are knocked off of Woby and out of fear Woby turns back to normal form.

2. Make it considerably more harder to knock Walter off Woby rivaling a regular Beefalo's health pool.

3. Make his trainings permanent once completed but make it more focused with insight cost. Only allowing a few of his trainings to be active at full capacity at once. 

4. When voluntarily dismounting Big Woby create a timer that the player can get back on Big Woby without him going back to normal thus costing monster meat to transform again.

EDIT: Make this timer shorter for evening time and substantially shorter at night and additionally make the damage halved it would take to knock Walter off at night. This creates a nice theme between fearless Walter and a Timid hearted Woby at night.

TLDR: Make Woby literally a Beefalo copy that's fully tamed and available Day 1 in an attempt to bring in more Walter players because their playerbase is suffering heavily.

Make him different than a beefalo, not better than a beefalo.

[Copyafriend]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

For those who have basic skills of Wendy, Abi's death punishment and leveling issue are never a "downside" of Wendy. The true downside which need to solve is Abi's surviving ability when facing some AOE bosses.

Yeah. The elixir that brjngs her back at full strength covers her surviving issues because you can just revive her.

 

For a guy obsessed with 

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

character who are complex and need high skill to finish some specific target

You sure needed the obvious spelled out to you

[Steorra]

Just now, Copyafriend said:

Yeah. The elixir that brjngs her back at full strength covers her surviving issues because you can just revive her.

So you mean that to pause the fighting when Abi died is a good solution for Abi's downside?

It's obviously you are not Wendy mainly and you really don't care about what Wendy really needed. 

[Mysterious box]

14 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I don't agree that Wortox need be nerf about his de-monster tag.

I don't agree that Woby should be weak than beefulo

I don't agree that Wendy is strong at day 0 so her skill tree should not cover her downside.

I don't agree that someone never use a character to finish main quest line of DST, but they insist their judge about those characters.

I only feel someone is good at envy and to use different standard to judge different character only because they like / dislike them.

 

There's a simple logic, if someone prefer to judge other characters which they don't like & they know nothing details (which means they only have watch some video about how those characters performed, but they never try those characters in real game), then these guys deserve same judge to their main characters.

Except I've completed the quests on both Wendy and Walter I've stayed out of the Wortox discussion because I haven't played him much it's clear you're upset a about people talking about the balance of Wendy but it's very clear Wendy is a strong character so people are going to have balance considerations about her design however back to Woby the issue with her is that she currently has no value as mount compare that to Abigial who dominates her area of expertise. If you want to just be spiteful about that people aren't going to take your feedback seriously.

[Peasant]

17 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

They've announced an elixer that brings abigail back to full strength instantly

Why I recall that potion just increases her maximun hp, but not effecting her current hp?

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Except I've completed the quests on both Wendy and Walter I've stayed out of the Wortox discussion because I haven't played him much it's clear you're upset a about people talking about the balance of Wendy but it's very clear Wendy is a strong character so people are going to have balance considerations about her design however back to Woby the issue with her is that she currently has no value as mount compare that to Abigial who dominates her area of expertise. If you want to just be spiteful about that people aren't going to take your feedback seriously.

"Very clear"

It's very clear that Wendy is only strong for those newbie. 

You have to know that who care about Wendy skill tree are not newbie.

[Ruperstiltskin]

2 minutes ago, YXukun said:

Why I recall that potion just increases her maximun hp, but not effecting her current hp?

Thats how it works, however, they also said that you can use a heal elixir to get her to 100hp and then the max level elixir. That would put her to 600 instantly

[Mysterious box]

13 minutes ago, Steorra said:

"Very clear"

It's very clear that Wendy is only strong for those newbie. 

You have to know that who care about Wendy skill tree are not newbie.

Huh I guess have beaten all the bosses with multiple hours into the game over years makes me a newbie interesting...

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Huh I guess have beaten all the bosses with multiple hours into the game over years makes me a newbie interesting...

Sorry, I mean newbie for Wendy.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Steorra said:

Sorry, I mean newbie for Wendy.

Except I've done the same with Wendy interestingly I don't even think Wendy didn't need buffs just that balance needed to be a big consideration when doing so much like with Walter who I've also gone against ideas I felt went too far with him.

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Except I've done the same with Wendy interestingly I don't even think Wendy didn't need buffs just that balance needed to be a big consideration when doing so much like with Walter who I've also gone against ideas I felt went too far with him.

Hmm. Do you think Wendy is strong in early ruins rushing or in post-rift endgame?

[Mysterious box]

17 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Hmm. Do you think Wendy is strong in early ruins rushing or in post-rift endgame?

Ruins rushing definitely but I want to wait to try the current buffs in action when it comes to post rift at least for now

[ShadowDuelist]

Woby is two things, one is little Woby which is a cheap and permanent chester, which is fine, and the other is Big Woby.
Big Woby should be a “decent cheap alternative” to beefalo in the early game and a better beefalo in the mid game, if you upgrade her.
And upgrading her should not take longer or be overall more expensive than a beefalo, unless it’s like a one time thing for a big improvement.

The current skill tree IMO does not do any of these things and beefalos are overall better since like day 8ish of your gameplay, the only advantage Woby has is being immortal.

Also a “better beefalo” does not necesarilly mean that she is exactly like a beefalo, I think she should be a better beefalo in some aspects of gameplay, so she could shine in some scenarios VS beefalo but not in all of them, but also have unique skills a beefalo does not have.
 

So this implies she will never be a meat shield and she will never deal damage herself, so if you value those things a beefalo will always be better for you. As a vague example, she could have a dodge skill, or a jump skill, etc. something that is unique and a beefalo can never do.

Also the feeding cost should definitely go down, the speed lost as you ride mechanic should go away in the late game. And it would definitely be good if we could access Woby’s storage while mounted.

 

[Copyafriend]

19 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

And it would definitely be good if we could access Woby’s storage while mounted.

Klei pls

[Mike23Ua]

Woby changes I would make if I had control over Walters rework.

#1- Walter no longer INSTANTLY gets bucked off Woby when Walter moves too close to enemies while using his slingshot, instead… much like her animation of running away and hiding with her paws over her head as little Woby, while in Big Woby mode and Walter is riding, Woby will now Auto relocate the Walter by running away from danger a few times (allowing you to use slingshot while mounted more efficiently without having to worry about moving around and dodging for a few hits)

I’d make that change specifically just to make doing any ranged mounted combat with an Xbox controller less annoying.

#2- Little Woby can be issued a command to run to a player of Walters choice (bring them the supplies inside her built in storage) other characters have perks that are extremely similar to this.. so no it’s not OP and it fits having a dog with its own personal inventory space.
How it will work: Woby runs off screen, disappears off the game map and then a few moments later is seen running on screen to the player she was sent to bring supplies to.

#3 perhaps the biggest most useful change I would make….

Little Woby can let out a small “Yip Yip” sound of barking, this will make enemies aggro onto and chase small Woby (Aka she gets Wes’s enemies aggro onto him perk) running enemies away from Walter so you can actually use his ranged combat (particularly the darned honey rounds they wanted to show off on stream as being really good and useful) but when Woby is in big form her puny Yip Yip is now a loud and defining Bark, Which now does the exact opposite of drawing enemies to chase her… it now scares mobs into running AWAY from her 

(useful for herding Beefalo or Volt Goats like a Shepard dog does sheep)

[Dingle]

2 hours ago, Steorra said:

"Very clear"

It's very clear that Wendy is only strong for those newbie. 

You have to know that who care about Wendy skill tree are not newbie.

For context, this screenshot quote is also someone that used Wendy to dominate a speedrun tournament. Beat Maxwell.

[Well-met]

the easy answer to your question is because beefs are already overpowered

[Copyafriend]

43 minutes ago, Well-met said:

the easy answer to your question is because beefs are already overpowered

The easy counterargument to your answer is "yeah, why is woby flat out inferior to something everyone else can easily have"

[Peasant]

9 hours ago, Dingle said:

For context, this screenshot quote is also someone that used Wendy to dominate a speedrun tournament. Beat Maxwell.

If someone who used Wendy to dominate a speedrun tournament and have beaten Maxwell is saying that Wendy is terrible at bosses, and that out of all characters he tried Wendy was probably the worst of them, then…Should we take his words and believe Wendy is weak/worst or not?

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, YXukun said:

If someone who used Wendy to dominate a speedrun tournament and have beaten Maxwell is saying that Wendy is terrible at bosses, and that out of all characters he tried Wendy was probably the worst of them, then…Should we take his words and believe Wendy is weak/worst or not?

In terms of being the worst that's statistically impossible so long as Wes exists that being said speedruns aren't something the game is balanced around.

[Dingle]

11 minutes ago, YXukun said:

If someone who used Wendy to dominate a speedrun tournament and have beaten Maxwell is saying that Wendy is terrible at bosses, and that out of all characters he tried Wendy was probably the worst of them, then…Should we take his words and believe Wendy is weak/worst or not?

I mean, he said one thing, but then killed more bosses than anyone else by a good chunk. It's a pretty goofy scenario. And the result is he beat a top tier Maxwell player as Wendy...

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

In terms of being the worst that's statistically impossible so long as Wes exists that being said speedruns aren't something the game is balanced around.

Seems like a pretty good indicator of "how good characters are at killing bosses, fast, with minimal preparation".

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Seems like a pretty good indicator of "how good characters are at killing bosses, fast, with minimal preparation".

Now consider that by this metric Wurt would need buffed. 

Spoiler

This is a joke but a fair amount of characters are worse without prep

 

[Edible Coal]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Woby changes I would make if I had control over Walters rework.

#1- Walter no longer INSTANTLY gets bucked off Woby when Walter moves too close to enemies while using his slingshot, instead… much like her animation of running away and hiding with her paws over her head as little Woby, while in Big Woby mode and Walter is riding, Woby will now Auto relocate the Walter by running away from danger a few times (allowing you to use slingshot while mounted more efficiently without having to worry about moving around and dodging for a few hits)

I’d make that change specifically just to make doing any ranged mounted combat with an Xbox controller less annoying.

#2- Little Woby can be issued a command to run to a player of Walters choice (bring them the supplies inside her built in storage) other characters have perks that are extremely similar to this.. so no it’s not OP and it fits having a dog with its own personal inventory space.
How it will work: Woby runs off screen, disappears off the game map and then a few moments later is seen running on screen to the player she was sent to bring supplies to.

#3 perhaps the biggest most useful change I would make….

Little Woby can let out a small “Yip Yip” sound of barking, this will make enemies aggro onto and chase small Woby (Aka she gets Wes’s enemies aggro onto him perk) running enemies away from Walter so you can actually use his ranged combat (particularly the darned honey rounds they wanted to show off on stream as being really good and useful) but when Woby is in big form her puny Yip Yip is now a loud and defining Bark, Which now does the exact opposite of drawing enemies to chase her… it now scares mobs into running AWAY from her 

(useful for herding Beefalo or Volt Goats like a Shepard dog does sheep)

wow actual good suggestions? bravo

[Peasant]

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

I mean, he said one thing, but then killed more bosses than anyone else by a good chunk. It's a pretty goofy scenario. And the result is he beat a top tier Maxwell player as Wendy...

Seems like a pretty good indicator of "how good characters are at killing bosses, fast, with minimal preparation".

He also said that there're way better scoring characters to play. So the reason he had beaten a top tier Maxwell player is not because Wendy is op, but because he is op. And it's not an indicator of "how good characters are at killing bosses, fast, with minimal preparation", but rather "how good players are at killing bosses, fast, with minimal preparation".

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

In terms of being the worst that's statistically impossible so long as Wes exists that being said speedruns aren't something the game is balanced around.

Funny, in the original post Wendy winning a championship was used as an evidence to prove that Wendy is strong, until quaksz himself/herself was there saying that Wendy is not.

Speedrun isn't the focus of the game indeed, but I reckon that opinions over the strength of certain characters from a top tier speedrun player is of certain value.