Please bring back Wendy’s original Downside.

[purelove]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I treat Bernie and Abigail roughly the same way they’re both AI Followers, they Both require you to fill up an inventory spot for a specific item to summon them.

And prior to Wendy’s Rework which made using Abigail laughably effortless, both Willow and Wendy had to trigger their AI Companions under specific Conditions.

Willow needed to drop Bernie on the ground and lower her sanity by eating some mushrooms nearby to him, And Wendy needed to Drop Abigail’s Flower on the ground and murder a creature nearby to it to summon Abigail.

In Addition to that- When Bernie Died you would need to either craft a new Bernie or repair him with a Sewing Kit. When Abigail Died (before Rework) you had to wait until she could be summoned again after the flower blooms out.

Both Wendy & Willow have a specific recipe to craft additional Bernie’s and Additional Abigail Flowers However: Only Willow actually has an Advantage on this, (when one Bernie dies if multiple are placed on the ground a second will animate to life in its place.)

Where things fall apart is a Willow without a Bernie still has her lighter to suck up fires or smack enemies with non-spreading magic fire damage or use several firemage skills. A Wendy Without Abigail is objectively worse than Wes.

Wendy’s entire game design has become… Outdated, but the Devs won’t see that as long as they listen to the side of the fanbase screaming Wendy OP Please Nerf, Or Wendy needs to be Crazy powerful we Demand that she be Powerful! Etc…

They instead need to be listening to logic and fair reasoning with valid comparisons between similar characters and skill (as I have done above). <3

Your thinking is deep and correct, which is completely accurate, and Wendy's pain points will not be understood without really trying to, so other players, think that the premise of Wendy's strength, should try to use Wendy to defeat the boss of the whole process, so that he can truly understand Wendy, rather than a group of amateurs teaching the expert to do things

[gaymime]

4 hours ago, YXukun said:

Maxwell: What about me?

He couldnt be older than the librarian who has 125hp, could he?

yeah, by a lot x''D that is a major part of his lore (spoiler for don't starve)

 

Spoiler

in fact. he is the ex king of the constant(and creator of a lot of it). he lived a very long time inside of the constant to the point that when he was freed he literally crumbled to dust because his body was too old to persist. he also seems to have been just generally frail in the real world too

 

49 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

And as for Wes... I mean, hes a french twink. Oh hes also a challenge character or somth

s-tier comment x'''D thankyou for the chuckle

[Peasant]

20 minutes ago, gaymime said:

yeah, by a lot x''D that is a major part of his lore (spoiler for don't starve)

But time in the constant apparently works differently from earth, one evidence is that none of the characters besides wanda showed any signs of getting older. In my opinion though everyone surely had endured a long time in the constant, their age hadn't changed a bit from the moment they step into the constant.

[aidankocherhans]

I don't think this is that big of a problem in practice. Level one Abigail is extremely fragile against anything that can't be stunlocked, especially if her health isn't already full. Resummoning her immediately usually just gets her killed immediately, especially if it's a boss. The game also isn't balanced the same, many enemies have much more health and there are much more bosses, so she needs to be stronger than in don't starve.

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

These days you can literally kill a boss by just continuing to summon Abby over and over again each time she dies

Have you actually tried doing this? You'd quickly be facing shadow creatures from the sanity loss and need to dodge both them and the boss each time you summon her.

 

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

And if none of that is possible: Then can you atleast nerf Wendy so that Everytime she summons Abigail endlessly that it costs Sanity or even health?

It literally costs sanity each time she dies so I don't know what you mean here.

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Better yet… how about we make it so there has to actually be at least one Sisturn with a fuel source inside (flower petal, dark petal, mourning glory etc..) for Abigail’s flower to even start to bloom out?

If they did that tons of noob players wouldn't even figure out how to summon her

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, YXukun said:

But time in the constant apparently works differently from earth, one evidence is that none of the characters besides wanda showed any signs of getting older. In my opinion though everyone surely had endured a long time in the constant, their age hadn't changed a bit from the moment they step into the constant.

it works differently, yes. that does not mean it doesnt work at all. -currently- maxwell is in stasis but that doesnt really reflect his time on the throne or the rejection of him by the throne when it had a new victim to sit on it. he came back as a survivor but he did not start out as one the way the others did and was under a different set of "rules" before his reset

 

that all being said however he is a frail old man so he gets treated like that. there is nothing to say wickerbottom was frail despite being old and both of them are cleanly and clearly out-paced by the other old character wagstaff. that guy can run circles around most of the survivors and he suffers from a squiffy gut and is half-blind x''D

[layangan putus]

2 hours ago, Sacco said:

Telling someone to ignore a feature is not the key of the solution.

You are telling them to make the game ARTIFICIALLY HARDER.

I understand we both want to improve the game quality in a way but usually in reality people will just ignore bad product in the market until the producer make it better. Good dev team will always listen to suggestion and feedback meaning they will notice the market decision about their product. Try to use more objective evidences instead of irrational judgment (more data and analysis) like do you really think making the game annoyingly tedious with downsides would make the product better? We can't make our personal standard as basis to implement in the game that is being played by tens of thousands people so if you're being nostalgic with personal challenge, try to get creative about it. ~LET THE DEV COOK~

[Sacco]

9 minutes ago, Sidoldi said:

I understand we both want to improve the game quality in a way but usually in reality people will just ignore bad product in the market until the producer make it better. Good dev team will always listen to suggestion and feedback meaning they will notice the market decision about their product. Try to use more objective evidences instead of irrational judgment (more data and analysis) like do you really think making the game annoyingly tedious with downsides would make the product better? We can't make our personal standard as basis to implement in the game that is being played by tens of thousands people so if you're being nostalgic with personal challenge, try to get creative about it. ~LET THE DEV COOK~

i just think that removing the reason of fighting bosses is not a good fame design, that's it.

[star star]

首先,我并不常选择温蒂,但最近我对温蒂的技能树进行了一些测试,我的想法是每个角色有自己的个性和故事,这很好,所以我们应该注重温蒂和阿比盖尔本身如何，而不是只去对比其他角色的优点
由于不知道转变形态的阿比盖尔的形态名称,我将其称为月灵阿比盖尔,事实上,不少人忽略了阿比盖尔的aoe效果和月灵阿比盖尔本身的优势,他们在意切换时间太长,而可能不在意或过少在意月灵阿比盖尔能做什么,或者了解不多,那么能否可以在这段时间里做月灵阿比盖尔能简单达成的事情呢?也许这会对认识有所帮助.

我选择温蒂与阿比盖尔挑战了许多boss,大部分都比较简单.或者可以有方案来解决,我并不让战斗变的快速,而是想让战斗变的有些技巧且更简单,虽然我的操作可能并不是特别好。但是希望能提供一些启发.有兴趣的可以我观看我发布的一些视频

月灵阿比盖尔的aoe消失怎么办?
我想说的是，新更新的恐吓可以与之配合,让其保护自己或温蒂免受或者受到更少的伤害
而我们不应该只在意aoe的消失，还要注重新的拥有
实际上月灵阿比盖尔的位移可以让她有概率的规避很多伤害,在月灵阿比盖尔的攻击后会有一段时间不受到伤害.加上新更新的脱战效果,有一段无敌帧,无疑是既提高了上限和下限.

当然对于盔甲,我不知道真实的故事是什么，但是我觉得阿比盖尔和温蒂都应该不会想让对方受伤。

在这里我想说,如果希望温蒂可以有更好的能力以及阿比盖尔有更好的能力,想要提出好的想法,或者中肯的评价,应该全面的去了解,多方面的去评测,综合的提出概况。请明白这点，强度高的人物不一定是合理的人物,也不一定是优秀的人物.最后谢谢听我说这些.这是我的一些补充和想法,如果有遗漏和错误可以补充.

First of all, I don't often pick Wendy, but recently I did some testing on Wendy's skill tree, and my My idea is that each character has their own personality and story, and that's good, so we should focus on how Wendy and Abigail are themselves, rather than just comparing the strengths of other characters
I don't know what to call this state,so I call it the Moon Spirit
In fact, many people ignore Abigail's AOE effect and the advantages of Moon Spirit Abigail itself, they will say that the switching time is too long, Maybe they don't care or don't care much about what the Moon Spirit Abigail can do,Or don't know much,So is it possible to do something that Abigail the Moon Spirit can easily achieve during this time?Maybe this will help with realization.

I've challenged many bosses through Abigail and Wendy, the Moon Spirit, and most of them are relatively simple. Or there can be a solution, I don't want to make the combat fast, but I want to make it somewhat skillful and simple, although my operation may not be particularly good. But hopefully it can provide some inspiration. If you are interested, you can watch some of the videos I posted

What should I do if Abigail's aoe disappears?
What I'm trying to say is that the new updated scare(the Team spirit III) can work with it to protect itself or Wendy from or suffer less
And we should not only care about the disappearance of AOE, but also focus on new possession
In fact, Abigail's displacement  allows her a chance to avoid a lot of damage, and after Abigail's attack, she won't take damage for a while. Coupled with the Team Spirit I of the new update, there is a period of invincibility, which undoubtedly raises the upper and lower limits

Of course, I don't know what the real story is about the armor,But I don't think either Wendy or Abigail would want to put the other in harm's way.

Here I would like to say that if you want to offer Wendy and Abigail have better capabilities, want to come up with good ideas, or fair evaluations, we should understand comprehensively, evaluate in many aspects, and put forward an overview comprehensively. Please understand this, a character with high intensity is not necessarily a reasonable character, nor is it necessarily a good character. Finally, thank you for listening to me. If there are omissions and errors, they can be supplemented.

This passage is obtained through translation, but there are additions and repeated corrections, I hope you don't mind, but there are additions and repeated corrections

[mima_]

5 hours ago, 1007954611 said:

You can't compare them like this. Willow's main ability is fire. Bernie is just an additional ability like a bonus. And all of Wendy's abilities rely on Abigail. She doesn't have any other abilities by herself. If Abigail can't start up quickly, Wendy will be like a blank slate for a long time

this is why i should say that skill tree should have revolve around wendy instead of all about buffing abigail.

im pretty much agree with OP when the wendy got reworks and remove one of the fun part of summoning abigail which require no downtime to none and player can force abigail to fight over and over while wendy keep saying be careful abigail but summon back her when she dies, just make her character worse. its not a lie, saw many of wendy player do this especially a newbie. having no more anticipation when seeing flower bloom so i can summon my sister again is sad.. man i want it back that bad.
and the rituals when we hear killing rabbit scream when summoning her is just golden 


its because im a suckers for thematic characters  .. willow is the best one that fulfil the thematic fire characters and other character reworks that seemingly fitting for them to be their own thematic purposes.(woody being good at refining wood as lumberjack or like wolfgang who can one shot when doing chopping and mining as strong man) im so happy for it. i never once love to use willow or wolfgang before the skill tree but they are fun now! not because of damage what so ever, just cause they are become unique just be on their own.

i wish wendy can be her own paranormal activity freak, that holding on her sister. im super excited with the OUIJA board skill tree design. but most of the skill tree is just about abigail .. and pretty grave.
 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Sidoldi said:

I understand we both want to improve the game quality in a way but usually in reality people will just ignore bad product in the market until the producer make it better. Good dev team will always listen to suggestion and feedback meaning they will notice the market decision about their product. Try to use more objective evidences instead of irrational judgment (more data and analysis) like do you really think making the game annoyingly tedious with downsides would make the product better? We can't make our personal standard as basis to implement in the game that is being played by tens of thousands people so if you're being nostalgic with personal challenge, try to get creative about it. ~LET THE DEV COOK~

Except DS & DST were games about being challenged by non-optional bosses shoved away in some obscure corner of the map, characters had hugely impactful downsides and SOME of those characters even still do..

(Wickerbottom can’t use any of her abilities if Sanity is too low to read, and she can not sleep EVER)

Even the almighty WX78 who is pretty OP gets taken down a peg or two by taking health damage in rain.

Wendy can NOT just be Braindead gameplay, and what worries me the most about that, is the one actual downside she still has (Abigail not helping her AT ALL against Shadow creatures) Theres a ton of posts where people are begging & pleading for her to be able to assist Wendy with that too.

[cyjs]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

除了 DS 和 DST 是关于被推到地图某个不起眼的角落的非可选 Boss 挑战的游戏之外，角色具有巨大影响力的缺点，其中一些角色甚至仍然如此。

（如果理智太低而无法阅读，威克伯顿将无法使用她的任何能力，而且她永远无法入睡）

即使是全能的 WX78（相当 OP）也会因为在雨中受到健康伤害而被击落一两处。

温蒂不能只是脑死亡游戏，最让我担心的是她仍然存在的一个实际缺点（阿比盖尔根本没有帮助她对抗暗影生物）有大量的帖子人们乞求和恳求她也能够协助温迪。

I agree that it actually needs some shortcomings

[layangan putus]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Except DS & DST were games about being challenged by non-optional bosses shoved away in some obscure corner of the map, characters had hugely impactful downsides and SOME of those characters even still do..

(Wickerbottom can’t use any of her abilities if Sanity is too low to read, and she can not sleep EVER)

Even the almighty WX78 who is pretty OP gets taken down a peg or two by taking health damage in rain.

Wendy can NOT just be Braindead gameplay, and what worries me the most about that, is the one actual downside she still has (Abigail not helping her AT ALL against Shadow creatures) Theres a ton of posts where people are begging & pleading for her to be able to assist Wendy with that too.

I don't support the posts by people you mentioned but there is nothing in Wendy's perks & quirks that suggests about Abi can't handle shadow creatures. I believe the dev designed this to prevent Abi farming nightmare fuel? (which usually you have tons of nightmare fuel lying around) So I don't see a reason to prevent Abi damaging shadow creatures but it is what it is, except by your interpretation if I conclude that Wendy should suffer longer fighting shadow creatures with her 0.75 attack modifier because it would make the survival experience fulfilling.

 

Then you provide examples of Evil Bot & Ms. Wicker (MLADY) with their downsides (they got acceptable reworks but we need to wait for their skill trees later), also allow me to add one example being Webber/Wortox/Wurt can't befriend pigs to do consistent MM -> Pig skins or farm logs (Wurt can farm logs with the merms). I find those examples to be accurate in lore and kinda whatever at the same time because it won't prevent the community to find effective solutions for the issue. Even worse, it would potentially make some characters unfavorable to play and that is bad for both of Klei and us because we have been investing resources.

 

Last about braindead gameplay, I suppose you mean that Wendy shouldn't rely on her twin so you'd prefer to personally kite 5 shadow creatures just like other character. Temanku, allow me to introduce you to V Rising (Brutal mode) - Multiplayer Game of Fighting Bosses, Basebuilding, & PvP which you can have as many as advantages you deem to (perfect blood type for stat boost, higher gear level, proper skill build) & the enemies will just demolish you because it demands you to learn & react to the fast pace fight. My point being this game is sure tricky if you are clueless & not quick-witted but I for one at least can't take pride in this game difficulty with my developed prefrontal cortex adapting to the world cycle & enemies' pattern, let alone be bothered with whatever downsides you want me to suffer because I will be prepared especially if there is no mandatory progression meaning I can just explore and get impactful stuff before 2nd season within 1st year to hopefully negate any downsides. Honestly, I play this game to just naturally progress in-game with my own pace, brainstorming to find unconventional methods, & learn a bit about game development.