Forget Wendy, only three skill trees for half year?先别管温蒂，这次只有三个技能树的更新？

[Lee Sy]

Let's review how @JoeW promised in roadmap at the beginning of the year:

Quote

We’re going to have longer periods between updates in order to have more substantial and impactful gameplay updates.

With our new schedule we will be releasing 4 major updates; each containing a mix of QOL, content and additional character updates.

The point is that you're still getting the same amount of content in this roadmap, just not as frequent.  

Even if ignore the "the same amount of content", so where's the "impactful" updates until now? The great depth worm that Jason suggested you can turn it off?  I don't want to believe it that's all for this year, but I'm afraid it is true.

先回顾下今年年初Joe W是如何在路线图中承诺的：

Quote

两次更新的间隔会变得更长，因为开发团队需要时间制作更多实质性和有冲击力的更新内容。

我们今年计划发布4个主要更新，每个更新都包含一部分的生活质量更新、游戏内容和人物相关更新。

重点是，这份路线图会带来同样多的内容，只是没有那么频繁而已。

即使忽略“同样多的内容”，可“有冲击力的”更新内容在哪呢？Jason建议我们可以关掉的巨大蠕虫吗？我不愿相信这就是今年的全部更新了，但恐怕确实如此。

[Peasant]

嗯……技能树也算生活质量吧

不过确实，技能树以来别的方面的内容更新都很凑数，帝王蟹重做和宝藏很好，霜鲨还可以，但到不了“有冲击力”的地步，垃圾猪有点不明所以，大蠕虫就……

[Steorra]

"We gave an update which aim to sweep away all mega basers from current player base, if you are mega baser, switch that new mob off or just quit."

Maybe something like this? It is really an impactful update, which clarified officially (by some designer) that mega base shouldn't be a "general play-style" of DST. Or even worse, that announcement is more like to say "Mega baser is not welcomed by DST".

 

I've already seen some hate speech like "mega baser should be considered as poison of DST" in general discussion after that update. 

See reference:

[Catuna_]

19 hours ago, Lee Sy said:

Even if ignore the "the same amount of content", so where's the "impactful" updates until now? The great depth worm that Jason suggested you can turn it off?  I don't want to believe it that's all for this year, but I'm afraid it is true.

crab king rework, new bosses, skill trees, rifts updates...? i'd argue all of those are pretty impactful

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

crab king rework, new bosses, skill trees, rifts updates...? i'd argue all of those are pretty impactful

Personally I love the crab king rework update, but the shadow rift update is strange and low quality.

Bug of infinity ornery chest spawning point, bug of giant worm spawning chance, bug of infinity rock lobster spawning point,

and the Rictus is unfriendly to those character who have no AOE ability.

And "to those mega basers you could just turn giant worm spawn option off".

 

I don't think many of us could be satisfied with something like these.

[Catuna_]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

Personally I love the crab king rework update, but the shadow rift update is strange and low quality.

Bug of infinity ornery chest spawning point, bug of giant worm spawning chance, bug of infinity rock lobster spawning point,

and the Rictus is unfriendly to those character who have no AOE ability.

And "to those mega basers you could just turn giant worm spawn option off".

 

I don't think many of us could be satisfied with something like these.

I do agree that these bugs need to be fixed, but I don't think the giant depths worm is that bad in my experience
rictus can be stunned by anyone as long as they have hutch so i think it's not that bad
it's extremely rare and it disappears when it's not loaded and it's easy to go to the surface to turn the worm wave into a hound wave instead

[Maxil20]

42 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Maybe something like this? It is really an impactful update, which clarified officially (by some designer) that mega base shouldn't be a "general play-style" of DST. Or even worse, that announcement is more like to say "Mega baser is not welcomed by DST".

DST has never discouraged Megabasing outright. I myself have my personal world for ~5 and a half IRL years myself that I cherish immensely. Heck, scrappy scavengers added a lot of QOL that helps megabases in particular (like the elasticspacer/celestial champ reductions, alongside outright optimizing endgame worlds).

I do think that depths of duplicity genuinely has problems they probably didn’t plan ahead or realize how impactful they are to the lategame loop. I myself do have gripes with them and would want them to be fixed myself (especially the RNG nature of the worm, much less its short spawn time…), though I don’t think they specifically added these changes to punish megabasers.

[Steorra]

Just now, Catuna_ said:

I do agree that these bugs need to be fixed, but I don't think the giant depths worm is that bad in my experience
rictus can be stunned by anyone as long as they have hutch so i think it's not that bad
it's extremely rare and it disappears when it's not loaded and it's easy to go to the surface to turn the worm wave into a hound wave instead

The giant worm generation has broken for a long period (about at least 1.5 month), for some players they can never spawn the giant worm naturally in that period.

And for now it is still a worthless boss for fight. It drops useless resources for end game, so when a wave of giant worm would come most ppls just choose to run and ignore it, this is a bad design as I think.

The specific warning hotfix solved some problem for mega basers, I admit. But the attitude of designer to mega basers is still a WTH.

 

And yes, rictus can be dealt easily if you have hutch, but in public server you cannot ensure you always has hutch when you in cave. Everyone wants hutch for extra item slots.

 

And have to mention - someone enjoying living in cave but not the surface, they are DST players as well. All things I mentioned above and the icker are annoying for those who living in cave.

[Steorra]

11 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

DST has never discouraged Megabasing outright. I myself have my personal world for ~5 and a half IRL years myself that I cherish immensely. Heck, scrappy scavengers added a lot of QOL that helps megabases in particular (like the elasticspacer/celestial champ reductions, alongside outright optimizing endgame worlds).

I do think that depths of duplicity genuinely has problems they probably didn’t plan ahead or realize how impactful they are to the lategame loop. I myself do have gripes with them and would want them to be fixed myself (especially the RNG nature of the worm, much less its short spawn time…), though I don’t think they specifically added these changes to punish megabasers.

See reference:

[Peasant]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

"We gave an update which aim to sweep away all mega basers from current player base, if you are mega baser, switch that new mob off or just quit."

Maybe something like this? It is really an impactful update, which clarified officially (by some designer) that mega base shouldn't be a "general play-style" of DST. Or even worse, that announcement is more like to say "Mega baser is not welcomed by DST".

 

I've already seen some hate speech like "mega baser should be considered as poison of DST" in general discussion after that update. 

See reference:

Next time when there's another updating ruining the gaming experience of another part of the players, say those who enjoying fighting bosses, would they claim that the boss killers are poison to this game too?

[Steorra]

12 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

DST has never discouraged Megabasing outright. I myself have my personal world for ~5 and a half IRL years myself that I cherish immensely. Heck, scrappy scavengers added a lot of QOL that helps megabases in particular (like the elasticspacer/celestial champ reductions, alongside outright optimizing endgame worlds).

I do think that depths of duplicity genuinely has problems they probably didn’t plan ahead or realize how impactful they are to the lategame loop. I myself do have gripes with them and would want them to be fixed myself (especially the RNG nature of the worm, much less its short spawn time…), though I don’t think they specifically added these changes to punish megabasers.

that designer has clarified that "you should design your mega base to have a space to deal with the greater depth worm, or just turn the greater worm off",

but what if those mega base was already built before the Depths of Duplicity update?

[Maxil20]

8 minutes ago, Steorra said:

See reference:

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

that designer has clarified that "you should design your mega base to have a space to deal with the greater depth worm, or just turn the greater worm off",

but what if those mega base was already built before the Depths of Duplicity update?

 

I do admittedly find the clip pretty infamous for the reasoning, but I really, really don’t think the intended purpose of the worm was to specifically punish megabasers. They wanted a cool cave boss for the caves, and I feel they did not plan for cave bases to be a major threat to megabasing. I primarily say this as someone who has been playing the same world well before the depths of duplicity update. Of course, I myself do not like the worm at all and I feel it is not realistic to warp areas of a base to accommodate for the worm. I myself can’t really modify my ruins to accommodate it because I have decorated, and I pretty much have to keep it disabled as a result as I have practically Zero interest in the boss, and especially not the destruction.

I feel like it was not talked about much, because a lot of english speaking people here who do megabase haven’t played the game in some time and/or are a bit hidden these days. I didn’t see a lot of threads about it, pretty much only that one thread about base destructions, suggestions/changes unrelated to the base destruction, and just the fact the worm in general has been very bugged and outright hasn’t spawned for a lot of people.

[Captain_Rage]

Why do you write "promised" when the developers always mention that their roadmaps are rough guidelines and subject to change? Don't blame it on translation software because obviously such statements are very disrespectful. Sharing an opinion is one thing. Lying and making things up is another story. Klei never wrote that and yet they receive wild accusations.

[webberer]

21 hours ago, Lee Sy said:

The point is that you're still getting the same amount of content in this roadmap, just not as frequent.  

1 month for Wolfgang, Wormwood, Woody skill tree

3 month for Wortox, Walter, Wendy skill tree, which even has less quality 

“sAmE” amount of content 

39 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Klei never wrote that and yet they receive wild accusations.

Tell us more jokes, we might like to hear.

[HowlVoid]

"Let's review how JoeW promised"

Proceeds to show a quote that has no mention of any "promises".

Firstly mega basing is something Klei has had to adapt to, it is a choice of the player to do so and at one point was regarded as being triumphant over the constant. It wasn't a privilege but a challenge the player undertook. So i ask, where is your pride as a builder? I play many games where I build grand things only for them to be destroyed over and over again. I would honestly maybe actually megabase in this game if it was plain boring. 

But that's neither here nor there, to each their own and to megabase is your choice.

However, Klei has made slow strides to accommodate for such players. So anyone saying they dont care about the playstyle is just an objective lie. The proof is in the game. What's more there are still players in the game who Want their bases destroyed. What, are we supposed to just get lost? Taking either side is just hypocrisy imo, allowing you to turn off a base destroying mob is the perfect middle ground. Anyone who can't see that is only thinking about things from their perspective. Base destroying enemies have existed far longer than megabasing so it's safe to say it's a foundation, an outlet from which the devs are allowed to draw creativity from. 

Finally, it's easy to claim to understand how much content is being put out when you only see the surface level of the releases. Multiple updates can be worked at at the same time over long periods of time and released one after the other to make it seem like they were done in a month. Last year "taking root" and "terrors below" were smaller updates than "from beyond depths of duplicity" which allowed the monthly cycle. It isn't really fair to make claims without having all the necessary information on how they're distributing their resources to accommodate for their update schedule.

[HowlVoid]

6 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

Can you really take someone seriously when they talk as if they actually work at Klei or something?

I don't work at klei, but I've been a fan for many years. You don't have to take me seriously I'm simply speaking from experience and if it sounds the way it does it's because I have a lot of experience. 

Also some of the things I've said, such as resource allocation, is just using common sense... actually a lot of what i said only requires paying attention so...

[WANZUN]

Five this year? Seven more? Klei did not say that he would not start the third round of redo.

[Dreamers250]

Hungry and anxious, connected to the machine. The development prospects have been abandoned by Corre. So it's a fact that Kore won't pay attention to the online version of Famine anymore

[HowlVoid]

1 minute ago, Fitzee said:

I wasn't referring to you, obviously; clearly, I was talking about the rude one.

That requires paying attention as well, no offense. 

Ah

My bad, in my defense I went into more detail than they did.

sorry

[Y0sH]

5 hours ago, Steorra said:

and the Rictus is unfriendly to those character who have no AOE ability.

You do know this is insanely easy to combat right? I play pubs almost exclusively. When I open cave rifts and notice that I got Rictus for my outcrop spawn. All I do is go craft a tooth trap set it and wait until he appears and walk over the trap, done. In fact he's easier than the trio to kill once you have him out the shadows. A tooth trap is insanely cheap and you only need one.

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, Y0sH said:

You do know this is insanely easy to combat right? I play pubs almost exclusively. When I open cave rifts and notice that I got Rictus for my outcrop spawn. All I do is go craft a tooth trap set it and wait until he appears and walk over the trap, done. In fact he's easier than the trio to kill once you have him out the shadows. A tooth trap is insanely cheap and you only need one.

we know this is easy if we have prepared tooth trap before we go deep into the cave. But I don't think this is good design because for those who have AOE ability they do not need to prepare anything. this is unfair.

[Y0sH]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

we know this is easy if we have prepared tooth trap before we go deep into the cave. But I don't think this is good design because for those who have AOE ability they do not need to prepare anything. this is unfair.

Every character doesn't need an AOE ability, it's ok for some characters to be better at different threats than others. When you get an outcrop and see it's Rictus, just leave caves and go make a tooth trap and come back. Whatever shadow monster you have will still be at the same outcrop. If this is too difficult or inconvenient you can turn it off in world settings.

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, Y0sH said:

Every character doesn't need an AOE ability, it's ok for some characters to be better at different threats than others. When you get an outcrop and see it's Rictus, just leave caves and go make a tooth trap and come back. Whatever shadow monster you have will still be at the same outcrop. If this is too difficult or inconvenient you can turn it off in world settings.

I'm tired about "turn It off in world settings" When ppl questioning some design issue. Why you guys never say same thing to those who think some character skill tree going to be OP just like "you can do not to learn those OP skills"? 

 

If you cannot understand the difference between "design issue" and skill issue (of players themself), I think we have no more valuable discussion here.

[Y0sH]

10 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I'm tired about "turn It off in world settings" When ppl questioning some design issue. Why you guys never say same thing to those who think some character skill tree going to be OP just like "you can do not to learn those OP skills"? 

 

If you cannot understand the difference between "design issue" and skill issue (of players themself), I think we have no more valuable discussion here.

I was trying to hold your hand with this exchange but now that you bring it up, it's ABSOLUTELY a skill issue. Your character of choice not having an AOE is automatically deemed "unfair" by you because without it you can't easily kill an enemy in the game. At most not having an AOE for Rictus is a minor inconvenience for an OPTIONAL enemy. You want every character to have easy access to all types of damage natively essentially. What would be the point of picking different characters if ALL characters could do the same thing from Day 1?  Again just because some characters are better at certain things it doesn't make it Unfair for other characters to be worse at it. If you want AOE that bad then just use whatever character that has it, problem solved.

[Lee Sy]

6 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

Why do you write "promised"

我完全可以把「承诺」换成「声明」或者「说」，但这又有什么区别呢？如果发布这个路线图却不需要遵守，毕竟没有明确使用「我承诺」，那么我应该如何看待他们的发言呢？我们不需要为自己的发言负责吗，还是你认为今年的更新已经达到了预期？

I could use "stated" or just "said" instead of "promised", but what's the diffierence? If one published the roadmap but no need to finish it, after all there is no "I promise" in the post, how should I view his words then? Don't we need to be responsible for our statements, or do you think the updates this year have met expectations?