problems Some things I hope Klei addresses concerning Walter

[Mysterious box]

So with skill trees likely coming next week and while there's no telling if Walter will be one of the chosen few who get picked this time I figured it'd be worth once again bringing up some things that need fixed for him.

1. His slingshot ammo capacity is too small per slot compared to normal weapons.

2. His slingshot is too resource hungry leading him to become like pre refresh Wx and this will likely get worse if his popularity goes up with the skill trees.

4. His special rounds are too expensive for their pay offs for example His freeze round is worse than a ice staff while being more expensive same goes for his cursed and slowdown rounds.

5. His slingshot's damage/attack speed is too low.

6. Woby is a direct downgrade to a beefalo in terms of being a mount.

Various solutions have already been pitched but I just wanted to once again point out the major problems I hope will be addressed.

[hyoton123]

7. his tummy is infuriatingly small. 

[SilverSpoon]

8. His slingshot still doesn't support flat damage.

9. Don't repeat the October 2024 Walter incident.

[aidankocherhans]

51 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

7. his tummy is infuriatingly small. 

Insulated pack does wonders for him, and also helps with woby's hunger

[Jakepeng99]

I thought 7 8 9, not 3.

[kroban]

Agree, some people think that Walter's main problem is his sanity but they don't understand that Walter is supposed to be a character with whom you should always keep the distance. If Walter gets a really good slingshot (which IMO is what Klei should focus on) you wont need to fight as much in melee, meaning virtually 0 damage taken which translates to not losing sanity/having the sanity drop for missing health.

Im not particulary interested in them wasting half the skill tree to make Woby a decent Beefalo, even if she were to become some crazy **** like the 3 beefalo types at once, but it could be good for Walter too. I would still prefer some unique perks on Woby not related to her being a mount, maybe her being able to pick things like Polly, or some weird mutation like with idk, Glommer's wing that would make Woby poop Glommer's goop, smth crazy like that

[arubaro]

I hope they fix what you pointed outside of his skill tree. Skill trees shouldn't be used as fixes while leaving the default content in a bad state

[Radicaljoe]

I would love an ammobag, maybe something like the bearger bin but for ammo only? 

Faster firing is a must, the wind up takes so long the enemy is already in my face by the time I fire.

(Also, since Woodie lost it, maybe give this fellow Canadian the cool sanity from planting trees perk?)

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I hope they fix what you pointed outside of his skill tree. Skill trees shouldn't be used as fixes while leaving the default content in a bad state

I do too but considering previous skill trees that's unlikely sadly.

[Maxil20]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I do too but considering previous skill trees that's unlikely sadly.

It is admittedly unfortunate they don't do it more often. I really liked Winona getting some small perks outside of the tree (the most notable being the spotlight itself getting a range increased and reduced power consumption for anything), and I wish others got some "no-skill" perks with their trees if they are really lacking.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

It is admittedly unfortunate they don't do it more often. I really liked Winona getting some small perks outside of the tree (the most notable being the spotlight itself getting a range increased and reduced power consumption for anything), and I wish others got some "no-skill" perks with their trees if they are really lacking.

Honestly I feel like more of Winonas skills should have been base kit. 

[Radicaljoe]

I wonder if they'll ever do that thing they did for Wurt and Wortox in the middle of the WX-78 rework where they just handed them a random kit upgrade.

[_mylilsunshine_]

I'm a dedicated Walter main who has killed every boss with him (both melee and with slingshot) and lived past 1000+ days (combined) so I think I'd chime in on your presumed "problems":

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So with skill trees likely coming next week and while there's no telling if Walter will be one of the chosen few who get picked this time I figured it'd be worth once again bringing up some things that need fixed for him.

1. His slingshot ammo capacity is too small per slot compared to normal weapons.

2. His slingshot is too resource hungry leading him to become like pre refresh Wx and this will likely get worse if his popularity goes up with the skill trees.

4. His special rounds are too expensive for their pay offs for example His freeze round is worse than a ice staff while being more expensive same goes for his cursed and slowdown rounds.

5. His slingshot's damage/attack speed is too low.

6. Woby is a direct downgrade to a beefalo in terms of being a mount.

Various solutions have already been pitched but I just wanted to once again point out the major problems I hope will be addressed.

1. capacity too small compared to what.. exactly? The only comparable ranged + ammunition weapon is the Howlitzer. That thing is an endgame, 68-damage/hit weapon and it can only  has 40 hound teeth at a time. 60 for a weapon that you spawn with is quite generous. Darts only have a stack size of 20 also.

2 and 4 can be combined, and I do agree that special rounds are too expensive for such little power/utility. As for the damage rounds, I think they're fine as they are.

5. Walter shooting Marble Rounds has less DPS than Wes using a Spear, but Walter is safe when doing so, and he has lower aggro priority as well. Meaning that if you play with other people, you can shoot freely. In single player however, I do agree that the attack speed a bit clunky, leaving him vulnerable, but it's not weak at all. You can always cheese shoot.

6. Having a Beefalo adjacent without having to put in the work of taming them is just not fair, no? Why should Woby be a combat mount (the most common use for Beef) anyways? Her personality is the reason why she is the way she is. And she has BETTER running speed than a Rider Beef, even at the lowest hunger. A better Rider at the low, low cost of 3-4 Monster Meats is already quite good, no? And I haven't even mentioned the 9-slot backpack. You're being too harsh on Woby, and you don't understand the Walter & Woby dynamic.
 

7 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

7. his tummy is infuriatingly small. 

He's a child-character so I can understand that, though I'd expect him to have similar hunger value to other child-characters. Having to chomp meatballs so often is annoying.

4 hours ago, kroban said:

Agree, some people think that Walter's main problem is his sanity but they don't understand that Walter is supposed to be a character with whom you should always keep the distance. If Walter gets a really good slingshot (which IMO is what Klei should focus on) you wont need to fight as much in melee which means taking virtually 0 damage which translates to not losing sanity etc.

Im not particulary interested in them wasting half the skill tree to make Woby a decent Beefalo, even if she were to become some crazy **** like the 3 beefalo types at once, but it could be good for Walter too. I would still prefer way more for buffs on small Woby, maybe her being able to pick things like Polly, or some weird mutation like with idk, Glommer's wing that would make Woby poop Glommer's goop, smth crazy like that

This guy gets it (: 

3 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

I would love an ammobag, maybe something like the bearger bin but for ammo only? 

Faster firing is a must, the wind up takes so long the enemy is already in my face by the time I fire.

(Also, since Woodie lost it, maybe give this fellow Canadian the cool sanity from planting trees perk?)

If he's going to have an ammo bag, I hope it's in a dedicated equipment slot, like a belt. I would not want to trade my chest slot for anything other than armour/backpack.

[Mysterious box]

48 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

1. capacity too small compared to what.. exactly? The only comparable ranged + ammunition weapon is the Howlitzer. That thing is an endgame, 68-damage/hit weapon and it can only  has 40 hound teeth at a time. 60 for a weapon that you spawn with is quite generous. Darts only have a stack size of 20 also.

The game is full of better ranged options at this point for the end game we have the gloomerang which has  85 uses. Even ignoring that you have Wolfgang's dumbells, Wurt's mosquito bombs, Willows flames, and so on.

 

53 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

2 and 4 can be combined, and I do agree that special rounds are too expensive for such little power/utility. As for the damage rounds, I think they're fine as they are.

I don't see how spear damage in exchange for marble and thulecite sounds like an okay damage to resource ratio even more so when your playing with other people.

58 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

5. Walter shooting Marble Rounds has less DPS than Wes using a Spear, but Walter is safe when doing so, and he has lower aggro priority as well. Meaning that if you play with other people, you can shoot freely. In single player however, I do agree that the attack speed a bit clunky, leaving him vulnerable, but it's not weak at all. You can always cheese shoot.

1. This is a extremely flawed argument if your playing with other people you'll demolish most any content the game can throw at you with or without the slingshot so the safety is an illusion as your already safe at that point.
2. Using the slingshot does not prevent you from getting hit in fact shoving it into situations can increase the odds of getting hit in some scenarios while still not having a proper payoff
3. The lowered priority actually isn't as useful as it seems as unless your teammate are face tanking their targets or you intentionally hold back on your shots the aggro will pile up quickly and you'll still end up pulling aggro away during your teammates kitting.
4. Cheese should not be considered in balancing a character nor should it be treated as their saving grace.
5. If the weapon can't do meaningful damage, attack at a meaningful speed, or at least offer meaningful crowd control it's a bad weapon it's a fun novelty but that's really it.

1 hour ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

6. Having a Beefalo adjacent without having to put in the work of taming them is just not fair, no? Why should Woby be a combat mount (the most common use for Beef) anyways? Her personality is the reason why she is the way she is. And she has BETTER running speed than a Rider Beef, even at the lowest hunger. A better Rider at the low, low cost of 3-4 Monster Meats is already quite good, no? And I haven't even mentioned the 9-slot backpack. You're being too harsh on Woby, and you don't understand the Walter & Woby dynamic.

I never said Woby had to be a combat mount but it seems you have some misunderstandings about Woby. She's slower than a beefalo because she doesn't get the saddle bonus. Her movement speed degrades with her hunger so even while big unless you feed her at least once a day you'll go even slower making her one of the worst mounts saved purely by the fact that she doesn't have the taming system. I've played Walter for years and I'm very clear on where their dynamic lands in terms of being a mount Woby's only good if you don't want to commit to the mount system or are only playing short term either of which are valid reasons. Though that doesn't mean you can't stick to Woby purely because you like Woby either I use her with marble armor from time to time purely for that reason.

 

[Catuna_]

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

1. His slingshot ammo capacity is too small per slot compared to normal weapons.

i dont think this particularly matters

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

4. His special rounds are too expensive for their pay offs for example His freeze round is worse than a ice staff while being more expensive same goes for his cursed and slowdown rounds.

in what way are freeze rounds more expensive? 1 moon rock isnt anything substantial and it has the same effectiveness at 2 hits from an ice staff so they're on par for the cost really
the issue is that his special ammos are just kinda crap... slowdown rounds are extremely niche and overall not very good

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

6. Woby is a direct downgrade to a beefalo in terms of being a mount.

i'd like to see woby buffed in some ways to compete, but i think ultimately she's not going to become better or on par, which is fine

9 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

7. his tummy is infuriatingly small. 

i honestly never understood the gripe with low base hunger, the boy still needs 75 hunger a day as most other characters do
it always feels like an over exaggeration when people complain about it especially when you say a word like "infuriatingly"


my two cents on walter's skill tree is that it really doesn't take a lot to make him on-par with other characters, all it really takes is buffing the slingshot and providing new more accessible ammo types but i think that he doesn't need much past this so i also hope that he gets some nice perks for QoL for things involving survival like boating, foraging etc. in the form of badges, would be very cute and i think it reinstates the amount of QoL playing walter can give you
oOOoOoOoo klei you wanna give walter more campfire stories OoOoOoOOoOo

[hyoton123]

58 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

 

i honestly never understood the gripe with low base hunger, the boy still needs 75 hunger a day as most other characters do
it always feels like an over exaggeration when people complain about it especially when you say a word like "infuriatingly"

 

It's kind of a joking exaggeration, but I played a fair amount of Walter near when starting out and have been nolifing him for a couple months now in my free time. The worst part has been the missing 40 food from meaty stew, even though it's still the best pure hunger option to whip out.

 

(seriously, I think he's fine and even in a good place going into a skill tree. I think changes in the game since his release have benefited him a lot)

[_mylilsunshine_]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

The game is full of better ranged options at this point for the end game we have the gloomerang which has  85 uses. Even ignoring that you have Wolfgang's dumbells, Wurt's mosquito bombs, Willows flames, and so on.

Better? Of course, I even acknowledged the Howlitzer. But readily available and free? You're comparing an endgame weapon to a starter/character-unique weapon. Endgame weapons require you to jump through hoops to acquire and sustain them. The latter comparisons make more sense, but hardly anyone throws the dumbells, as it costs durability. Wurt's mosquito bomb is trash, and I say this as a Wurt lover. You'll have an easier time catching 20 to 40 killer bees. Willow's flame? Comparing a fully-fledged, skill-tree-having character vs one who does not have a skill tree. Also, you're playing Willow at that point, which is your personal power/flavor choice anyway.

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't see how spear damage in exchange for marble and thulecite sounds like an okay damage to resource ratio even more so when your playing with other people.

Because you have the luxury of dealing range damage, with lower aggro. Because you have the luxury of cheese and not having to sweat to kill bosses. The Slingshot, as bad as it currently is, allows me to fight Klaus with just gold/marble rounds and fish for a Sack as soon as the Loot Stash spawns without having to rush the Ruin for equipment, which is an arduous task that I often push back for later.

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

 

1. This is a extremely flawed argument if your playing with other people you'll demolish most any content the game can throw at you with or without the slingshot so the safety is an illusion as your already safe at that point.
2. Using the slingshot does not prevent you from getting hit in fact shoving it into situations can increase the odds of getting hit in some scenarios while still not having a proper payoff
3. The lowered priority actually isn't as useful as it seems as unless your teammate are face tanking their targets or you intentionally hold back on your shots the aggro will pile up quickly and you'll still end up pulling aggro away during your teammates kitting.
4. Cheese should not be considered in balancing a character nor should it be treated as their saving grace.
5. If the weapon can't do meaningful damage, attack at a meaningful speed, or at least offer meaningful crowd control it's a bad weapon it's a fun novelty but that's really it.

1. You're basing this argument on the notion that every player will have a high level of game knowledge and coordination enough to demolish contents, which is simply not true. The slingshot is a bandaid for those who are reluctant to melee.
2 & 3. How does using a range weapon with a lower aggro priority when someone else is melee and tanking mean increasing the odds of getting hit? Please, do tell me the odds. And holding a shot or two back is not entirely impossible. Players might not be able to farm the resources for everyone to face tank, but for just one? It's doable.
4. This I do agree with, but it's not like cheese is uncommon across DST's rosters. For Walter, it's not game-breaking in anyway.
5. You're asking a lot for something that is, and I say this again, readily available with no durability. Maybe I can see the Slingshot being upgraded, but as it stands, it's fine. You're asking for something overloaded that only exists in Wigfrid kit, and she's a Warrior LARPER, she's meant to fight. Walter is a kid, a scout, and generally? a pacifist. Just look at his voice line when attacking. The act of using a weapon to pwn monsters doesn't fit Walter's character, which to me, is the most important thing.

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I never said Woby had to be a combat mount but it seems you have some misunderstandings about Woby. She's slower than a beefalo because she doesn't get the saddle bonus. Her movement speed degrades with her hunger so even while big unless you feed her at least once a day you'll go even slower making her one of the worst mounts saved purely by the fact that she doesn't have the taming system. I've played Walter for years and I'm very clear on where their dynamic lands in terms of being a mount Woby's only good if you don't want to commit to the mount system or are only playing short term either of which are valid reasons. Though that doesn't mean you can't stick to Woby purely because you like Woby either I use her with marble armor from time to time purely for that reason.

You referred to Woby as a "downgrade in terms of being a mount." When a mount has only two major functions, combat and taxi (looking at you, Pudgy), it's only reasonable when I discussed both functions, didn't I? Anyways, like the Slingshot, Woby-mount is readily available. Fighting spiders is nothing, even for a new player. The fact that you can mount her at top speed half a day in is really good. Walter is often referred to as a noob trap because of his sanity perk, but a noob shouldn't engage in heavy combat anyways. The Slingshot and Woby-mount serve as hand-holding tools, which is perfectly fine. The Beef-taming system rewards all characters, especially those on the weaker side, but it requires knowledge, commitment, and accepting the fact that you will spend most of your game on a beef. Those are what put people off from just getting a Beefalo, and Woby is a perfect middle ground if you play Walter.

I play Walter because of his characteristics and personality, so his upsides and downsides have never been a deal breaker to me. He's a pacifist child scout and Woby is a timid, equally pacifist (or cowardly) dog. They're not meant to plow through the Constant full of raid bosses and monsters with their immense combat prowess. I like to make up headcanon and lore-friendly reasons to fit Walter, it's fun.

Anyway, I'm glad that there are more meaningful Walter discourses other than "he bad, skill tree when." Walter's discourses are already scarce as it is.

I have faith in Klei's decisions about Walter's skill tree. If it's amazing and flavorful, great! If they do a bad job, then it's like he never got a skill tree in the first place. 

[arubaro]

19 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

Better? Of course, I even acknowledged the Howlitzer. But readily available and free? You're comparing an endgame weapon to a starter/character-unique weapon. Endgame weapons require you to jump through hoops to acquire and sustain them. The latter comparisons make more sense, but hardly anyone throws the dumbells, as it costs durability. Wurt's mosquito bomb is trash, and I say this as a Wurt lover. You'll have an easier time catching 20 to 40 killer bees. Willow's flame? Comparing a fully-fledged, skill-tree-having character vs one who does not have a skill tree. Also, you're playing Willow at that point, which is your personal power/flavor choice anyway.

Because you have the luxury of dealing range damage, with lower aggro. Because you have the luxury of cheese and not having to sweat to kill bosses. The Slingshot, as bad as it currently is, allows me to fight Klaus with just gold/marble rounds and fish for a Sack as soon as the Loot Stash spawns without having to rush the Ruin for equipment, which is an arduous task that I often push back for later.

1. You're basing this argument on the notion that every player will have a high level of game knowledge and coordination enough to demolish contents, which is simply not true. The slingshot is a bandaid for those who are reluctant to melee.
2 & 3. How does using a range weapon with a lower aggro priority when someone else is melee and tanking mean increasing the odds of getting hit? Please, do tell me the odds. And holding a shot or two back is not entirely impossible. Players might not be able to farm the resources for everyone to face tank, but for just one? It's doable.
4. This I do agree with, but it's not like cheese is uncommon across DST's rosters. For Walter, it's not game-breaking in anyway.
5. You're asking a lot for something that is, and I say this again, readily available with no durability. Maybe I can see the Slingshot being upgraded, but as it stands, it's fine. You're asking for something overloaded that only exists in Wigfrid kit, and she's a Warrior LARPER, she's meant to fight. Walter is a kid, a scout, and generally? a pacifist. Just look at his voice line when attacking. The act of using a weapon to pwn monsters doesn't fit Walter's character, which to me, is the most important thing.

You referred to Woby as a "downgrade in terms of being a mount." When a mount has only two major functions, combat and taxi (looking at you, Pudgy), it's only reasonable when I discussed both functions, didn't I? Anyways, like the Slingshot, Woby-mount is readily available. Fighting spiders is nothing, even for a new player. The fact that you can mount her at top speed half a day in is really good. Walter is often referred to as a noob trap because of his sanity perk, but a noob shouldn't engage in heavy combat anyways. The Slingshot and Woby-mount serve as hand-holding tools, which is perfectly fine. The Beef-taming system rewards all characters, especially those on the weaker side, but it requires knowledge, commitment, and accepting the fact that you will spend most of your game on a beef. Those are what put people off from just getting a Beefalo, and Woby is a perfect middle ground if you play Walter.

I play Walter because of his characteristics and personality, so his upsides and downsides have never been a deal breaker to me. He's a pacifist child scout and Woby is a timid, equally pacifist (or cowardly) dog. They're not meant to plow through the Constant full of raid bosses and monsters with their immense combat prowess. I like to make up headcanon and lore-friendly reasons to fit Walter, it's fun.

Anyway, I'm glad that there are more meaningful Walter discourses other than "he bad, skill tree when." Walter's discourses are already scarce as it is.

I have faith in Klei's decisions about Walter's skill tree. If it's amazing and flavorful, great! If they do a bad job, then it's like he never got a skill tree in the first place. 

I agree that ranged weapons shouldnt have good dps when they work as simply pressing F to deal safe damage. Is a non sense to add these kind of weapons in a game were enemies arent coded for that

The problem is that klei not only didnt change enemies but also makes uninteresting ranged weapons instead of adding high damage with interesting skill based mechanics such as aiming instead of holding with key to exploit the enemy

Blow darts were expensive for a reason... a reason they are ignoring with the new planar weapons that are breaking a lot of fights, even new ones (sad and mind blowing how they keep making enemies that arent prepare for ranged combat while they are adding a lot of ranged weapons...i dont have much faith in this game anymore)

All of this doesnt justifies having such expensive and underpowered crowd control ammo. Like many other content, seems like they didnt tested properly the balance...already the moon rock cost makes 0 sense 

[Mysterious box]

7 hours ago, Catuna_ said:

i dont think this particularly matters

it matters if you intend to use it as a weapon and even more so in the case of cursed rounds as you can't learn the recipe.

7 hours ago, Catuna_ said:

in what way are freeze rounds more expensive? 1 moon rock isnt anything substantial and it has the same effectiveness at 2 hits from an ice staff so they're on par for the cost really
the issue is that his special ammos are just kinda crap... slowdown rounds are extremely niche and overall not very good

The freeze rounds have 2x the effectiveness of a ice staff but the ice staff is far faster with it's rate of fire meaning less mistakes and less missed shots also there are creatures who need a odd number of shots to freeze in which you lose the difference.

The issue with slowdown rounds is it's price slowdown round do their job well but their price them not worth it as you your spending a purple gem for just 10 shots that last 30 seconds each. Like imagine if Maxwell's cage and shadow sneak consumed purple gems they'd suddenly see a lot less use right? Same with Willow's spells. What the round does is good just not worth the cost.

7 hours ago, Catuna_ said:

i'd like to see woby buffed in some ways to compete, but i think ultimately she's not going to become better or on par, which is fine

Personally I've said in the past that I'd prefer they gave Woby support skills like they did in uncomp where she could fetch items and dig.

6 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

The latter comparisons make more sense, but hardly anyone throws the dumbells, as it costs durability.

This is true but they still function well as ranged weapons it's just that people would rather just smash the threat with his already overwhelming power and defense.

6 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

Wurt's mosquito bomb is trash, and I say this as a Wurt lover. You'll have an easier time catching 20 to 40 killer bees.

As someone who plays Wurt and Walter a lot I heavily disagree getting your bombs setup the first time can take some time but after you start using them you'll start getting more sacks than you know what to do with and that's usually the main lacking component to building more bombs and as far as ranged weapons go they're very strong. I'd argue that the main reason people don't see how good mosquito bombs are is that they're tied to a character who already has merms which are the strongest followers in the game.

6 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

Willow's flame? Comparing a fully-fledged, skill-tree-having character vs one who does not have a skill tree. Also, you're playing Willow at that point, which is your personal power/flavor choice anyway.

The goal isn't to say "Wow Walter is worse than a skill tree having character!" it's that Walter needs to play catchup in his design because when compared to other characters he fails all aspects in terms of what his ranged combat offers and those are just parts of their designs in some cases small ones while his slingshot is his most flushed out and unique aspect. It would be like if everyone was better at handling fire than Willow. I'm not saying he needs to become them I'm saying his slingshot needs to be good in some way but as it stands it's not be it storage, damage, speed, or utility.

 

6 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

Because you have the luxury of dealing range damage, with lower ag?gro. Because you have the luxury of cheese and not having to sweat to kill bosses. The Slingshot, as bad as it currently is, allows me to fight Klaus with just gold/marble rounds and fish for a Sack as soon as the Loot Stash spawns without having to rush the Ruin for equipment, which is an arduous task that I often push back for later.

The problem is that it's not the luxury your making it out to be aggro can still be pulled unless the enemy is receiving constant damage from another source which kiting can ruin. You talk about the luxury to cheese bosses but options like Wurt and Winona exist who are far better at cheesing bosses without spending a mind numbing amount of time holding F.

 

6 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

1. You're basing this argument on the notion that every player will have a high level of game knowledge and coordination enough to demolish contents, which is simply not true. The slingshot is a bandaid for those who are reluctant to melee.

1. I'm not. Wearing armor and holding F with 3+ people is enough to beat a good majority of content that does not require a high level of skill. Even then if they don't have some level of knowledge on how to fight the slingshot isn't going to magically get them through the situation unless they're playing with more skilled players carrying them.

6 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

& 3. How does using a range weapon with a lower aggro priority when someone else is melee and tanking mean increasing the odds of getting hit? Please, do tell me the odds. And holding a shot or two back is not entirely impossible. Players might not be able to farm the resources for everyone to face tank, but for just one? It's doable.

You combined 2 points to intentionally misrepresent what I said here. Increasing the odds of getting hit is what can happen without help as your not going to always have a meat shield when you have a slingshot unless your staying glued to another player at all times. Are you really trying to say using a ranged weapon with a slow rate of fire won't cause problems with getting hit outside of a exactly a 1v1 fight while your alone? Even then that 1 target might be faster than you can deal with using a slingshot.

Also let's talk about holding back shots remember that you're already doing some of the worst damage in the game even before considering you might not have his highest tier ammos and we're talking about holding back shots to avoid putting yourself in more danger? Do you not see how bad and unhelpful this is to your team? However speaking of your team why should they have to face tank alone in order to ensure you have a safer experience alone? They're going to consume far more resources than you ever would with everyone tanking to rush down the boss together that way. No matter how you look at it playing like this doesn't seem like teamwork it seems like you(Slingshot Walter not you) are being a large burden to your team as they try to protect you.

6 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

4. This I do agree with, but it's not like cheese is uncommon across DST's rosters. For Walter, it's not game-breaking in anyway.

Not game breaking but not very useful compared to alternatives either.

6 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

5. You're asking a lot for something that is, and I say this again, readily available with no durability. Maybe I can see the Slingshot being upgraded, but as it stands, it's fine. You're asking for something overloaded that only exists in Wigfrid kit, and she's a Warrior LARPER, she's meant to fight. Walter is a kid, a scout, and generally? a pacifist. Just look at his voice line when attacking. The act of using a weapon to pwn monsters doesn't fit Walter's character, which to me, is the most important thing.

I'm really not your saying it has no durability but it does it's the ammo which means the weapon has a durability of 60. I'm not asking for it to be overloaded no one seems to be they're asking for it to be good at something and as it stands it's good at nothing I feel like that should be clear by the fact your using very specific scenarios to justify it's existence. It's good if you have other people doing all the work for you, it's good if you perform specific cheeses, and so on. Even in terms of safety there's a long list of safer ways to play the game before you reach the slingshot.

 

10 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

6. Having a Beefalo adjacent without having to put in the work of taming them is just not fair, no? Why should Woby be a combat mount (the most common use for Beef) anyways? Her personality is the reason why she is the way she is. And she has BETTER running speed than a Rider Beef, even at the lowest hunger. A better Rider at the low, low cost of 3-4 Monster Meats is already quite good, no? And I haven't even mentioned the 9-slot backpack. You're being too harsh on Woby, and you don't understand the Walter & Woby dynamic.

 

6 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

You referred to Woby as a "downgrade in terms of being a mount." When a mount has only two major functions, combat and taxi (looking at you, Pudgy), it's only reasonable when I discussed both functions, didn't I? Anyways, like the Slingshot, Woby-mount is readily available. Fighting spiders is nothing, even for a new player. The fact that you can mount her at top speed half a day in is really good. Walter is often referred to as a noob trap because of his sanity perk, but a noob shouldn't engage in heavy combat anyways. The Slingshot and Woby-mount serve as hand-holding tools, which is perfectly fine. The Beef-taming system rewards all characters, especially those on the weaker side, but it requires knowledge, commitment, and accepting the fact that you will spend most of your game on a beef. Those are what put people off from just getting a Beefalo, and Woby is a perfect middle ground if you play Walter.

I play Walter because of his characteristics and personality, so his upsides and downsides have never been a deal breaker to me. He's a pacifist child scout and Woby is a timid, equally pacifist (or cowardly) dog. They're not meant to plow through the Constant full of raid bosses and monsters with their immense combat prowess. I like to make up headcanon and lore-friendly reasons to fit Walter, it's fun.

Anyway, I'm glad that there are more meaningful Walter discourses other than "he bad, skill tree when." Walter's discourses are already scarce as it is.

I have faith in Klei's decisions about Walter's skill tree. If it's amazing and flavorful, great! If they do a bad job, then it's like he never got a skill tree in the first place. 

You implied the reason I called Woby a downgrade was due to her lack of a combat ability which wasn't true and claimed that she's better at running than a beefalo which also isn't true since she doesn't get the bonus from using a saddle which is a 40% speed boost on the default.

It seems more so you enjoy the idea of Walter's playstyle more than what's offered which to be fair I do as well but I don't think you should let that hold you back from questioning the problems with his kit.

 

[Dwight34]

17 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

it matters if you intend to use it as a weapon and even more so in the case of cursed rounds as you can't learn the recipe.

The freeze rounds have 2x the effectiveness of a ice staff but the ice staff is far faster with it's rate of fire meaning less mistakes and less missed shots also there are creatures who need a odd number of shots to freeze in which you lose the difference.

The issue with slowdown rounds is it's price slowdown round do their job well but their price them not worth it as you your spending a purple gem for just 10 shots that last 30 seconds each. Like imagine if Maxwell's cage and shadow sneak consumed purple gems they'd suddenly see a lot less use right? Same with Willow's spells. What the round does is good just not worth the cost.

Personally I've said in the past that I'd prefer they gave Woby support skills like they did in uncomp where she could fetch items and dig.

This is true but they still function well as ranged weapons it's just that people would rather just smash the threat with his already overwhelming power and defense.

As someone who plays Wurt and Walter a lot I heavily disagree getting your bombs setup the first time can take some time but after you start using them you'll start getting more sacks than you know what to do with and that's usually the main lacking component to building more bombs and as far as ranged weapons go they're very strong. I'd argue that the main reason people don't see how good mosquito bombs are is that they're tied to a character who already has merms which are the strongest followers in the game.

The goal isn't to say "Wow Walter is worse than a skill tree having character!" it's that Walter needs to play catchup in his design because when compared to other characters he fails all aspects in terms of what his ranged combat offers and those are just parts of their designs in some cases small ones while his slingshot is his most flushed out and unique aspect. It would be like if everyone was better at handling fire than Willow. I'm not saying he needs to become them I'm saying his slingshot needs to be good in some way but as it stands it's not be it storage, damage, speed, or utility.

 

The problem is that it's not the luxury your making it out to be aggro can still be pulled unless the enemy is receiving constant damage from another source which kiting can ruin. You talk about the luxury to cheese bosses but options like Wurt and Winona exist who are far better at cheesing bosses without spending a mind numbing amount of time holding F.

 

1. I'm not. Wearing armor and holding F with 3+ people is enough to beat a good majority of content that does not require a high level of skill. Even then if they don't have some level of knowledge on how to fight the slingshot isn't going to magically get them through the situation unless they're playing with more skilled players carrying them.

You combined 2 points to intentionally misrepresent what I said here. Increasing the odds of getting hit is what can happen without help as your not going to always have a meat shield when you have a slingshot unless your staying glued to another player at all times. Are you really trying to say using a ranged weapon with a slow rate of fire won't cause problems with getting hit outside of a exactly a 1v1 fight while your alone? Even then that 1 target might be faster than you can deal with using a slingshot.

Also let's talk about holding back shots remember that you're already doing some of the worst damage in the game even before considering you might not have his highest tier ammos and we're talking about holding back shots to avoid putting yourself in more danger? Do you not see how bad and unhelpful this is to your team? However speaking of your team why should they have to face tank alone in order to ensure you have a safer experience alone? They're going to consume far more resources than you ever would with everyone tanking to rush down the boss together that way. No matter how you look at it playing like this doesn't seem like teamwork it seems like you(Slingshot Walter not you) are being a large burden to your team as they try to protect you.

Not game breaking but not very useful compared to alternatives either.

I'm really not your saying it has no durability but it does it's the ammo which means the weapon has a durability of 60. I'm not asking for it to be overloaded no one seems to be they're asking for it to be good at something and as it stands it's good at nothing I feel like that should be clear by the fact your using very specific scenarios to justify it's existence. It's good if you have other people doing all the work for you, it's good if you perform specific cheeses, and so on. Even in terms of safety there's a long list of safer ways to play the game before you reach the slingshot.

 

 

You implied the reason I called Woby a downgrade was due to her lack of a combat ability which wasn't true and claimed that she's better at running than a beefalo which also isn't true since she doesn't get the bonus from using a saddle which is a 40% speed boost on the default.

It seems more so you enjoy the idea of Walter's playstyle more than what's offered which to be fair I do as well but I don't think you should let that hold you back from questioning the problems with his kit.

 

Based, but as mentioned already, there was a lot of discussion last month and the "walter is fine just git gud" camp was utterly humiliated and debunked. They'll continue to argue in bad faith but it's pointless to answer them, they already lost and simply won't admit it out of misplaced pride.

[_mylilsunshine_]

1 hour ago, Dwight34 said:

Based, but as mentioned already, there was a lot of discussion last month and the "walter is fine just git gud" camp was utterly humiliated and debunked. They'll continue to argue in bad faith but it's pointless to answer them, they already lost and simply won't admit it out of misplaced pride.

The way you use lingos like "based", "git gud", "utterly humiliated", "debunked", and the statement "continue to argue in bad faith but it's pointless to answer them, they already lost and simply won't admit it out of misplaced pride." lead me to believe that you're also arguing in bad faith and ego-driven. Maybe put down the brainrot.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

-snip-

It seems more so you enjoy the idea of Walter's playstyle more than what's offered which to be fair I do as well but I don't think you should let that hold you back from questioning the problems with his kit.

I guess this sums up our POVs. I like Walter for how and who he is, you want Walter to be what he could've been. I don't mind people playing for efficiency/meta, and you're right, maybe I have been overly protective of Walter.

[Catuna_]

2 hours ago, Dwight34 said:

Based, but as mentioned already, there was a lot of discussion last month and the "walter is fine just git gud" camp was utterly humiliated and debunked. They'll continue to argue in bad faith but it's pointless to answer them, they already lost and simply won't admit it out of misplaced pride.

this is crazy coming out of the person who refused to address anything i had to say, you didnt even respond to actually debunk anything
please feel free to not engage with so-called bad faith arguments seeing that you've eventually contributed nothing but petty insults in the previous thread

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

it matters if you intend to use it as a weapon and even more so in the case of cursed rounds as you can't learn the recipe.

i mustve misunderstood, could you elaborate please? do you mean the max stack size of 60, or the amount produced per craft? my response was that the former doesn't matter, but i agree with the latter
quite frankly i think walter should be able to prototype cursed rounds, it's a shame that he can't considering that the other rounds are just so lackluster in comparison...

[Mysterious box]

58 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

I guess this sums up our POVs. I like Walter for how and who he is, you want Walter to be what he could've been. I don't mind people playing for efficiency/meta, and you're right, maybe I have been overly protective of Walter.

I would say I fall under both I wouldn't keep playing Walter or using his slingshot if I didn't enjoy what he had but at the same time I've always felt he was held back in weird ways.

32 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

i mustve misunderstood, could you elaborate please? do you mean the max stack size of 60, or the amount produced per craft? my response was that the former doesn't matter, but i agree with the latter
quite frankly i think walter should be able to prototype cursed rounds, it's a shame that he can't considering that the other rounds are just so lackluster in comparison...

I'd say both a higher stack size would really help with making the weapon more convenient and make mixing different rounds more accessible while a higher craft amount per craft would make the more expensive rounds feel more worthwhile. That being said I think they should go back and rework some of his weaker rounds as well like for rocks they should instead stun creatures instead of killing them.

[SilverSpoon]

3 hours ago, Dwight34 said:

Based, but as mentioned already, there was a lot of discussion last month and the "walter is fine just git gud" camp was utterly humiliated and debunked. They'll continue to argue in bad faith but it's pointless to answer them, they already lost and simply won't admit it out of misplaced pride.

Especially who I personally think a friend, you shouldn't be the one to restart that stupid drama. 

1 hour ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

Maybe put down the brainrot.

skibidi rizz ohio sorry

[Dwight34]

2 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

Especially who I personally think a friend, you shouldn't be the one to restart that stupid drama.

I don't restart anything, I state the fact of what happened. Discussion happened, one side won, anyone who wants to see it can look at the past discussion. People forget way too often that debates' main purpose is to prove the correctness of a position over another, and this has been done for this subject.