New tool: MapsNotIncluded.org (upcoming TNI replacement)

[Commander Steps]

5 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

Older versions of Chrome aren't supported either

Yes, the Map Explorer is using new technology.

My general advice here is not to use outdated browser versions - yet alone for security reasons.

1 minute ago, sakura_sk said:

windows 8.1 pc

The current version is Microsoft Windows 11

Any current browser version on an up-to-date operating system will work.

[sakura_sk]

3 minutes ago, Commander Steps said:

My general advice here is not to use outdated browser versions - yet alone for security reasons.

Good luck to you too...

Thanks for confirming my option of "Never use that site"

[Commander Steps]

8 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

Good luck to you too...

I’m sorry you can’t use the Map Explorer, but that is really not my fault.

It works and offers a search feature. 

So if you attached to Cairath, that’s fine, but just don’t lie and make things up.

Use a current browser and it will work - or just don’t use the service.

I will update the error message to a general „your browser is too old“. Thanks for that hint.

[sakura_sk]

10 minutes ago, Commander Steps said:

It works and offers a search feature. 

"works" seems to be very subjective in this case since I can't use it in neither of my current devices

10 minutes ago, Commander Steps said:

So if you attached to Cairath, that’s fine, but just don’t lie and make things up.

If I wanted to make things up, I wouldn't bother posting screenshot.

If you don't know how your site works, that's fine, but don't come accusing me of things that have nothing to do with what I said.

[Commander Steps]

Just now, sakura_sk said:

"works" seems to be very subjective in this case since I can't use it in neither of my current devices

You can use it on your Windows 8.1 PC if you use a current version of chrome or Firefox which has a feature called „WASM GC“ implemented.

Safari was the last browser to support this, hence the message. I did not expect someone to use an old Chrome for whatever reason.

Your Android phone works, because you can see that message. The map explorer is just not designed for small screens. TNI looked like garbage on a mobile phone, too. Instead of showing an broken website I prefer showing a message that small screens are not supported. You could try to rotate your phone or using the Desktop mode in the browser.

But yet again: It’s designed for bigger screens - tablet or Desktop.

[sakura_sk]

23 minutes ago, Commander Steps said:

You could try to rotate your phone or using the Desktop mode in the browser.

No. Because like I said multiple times (and probably whoever developed the site already knows) it doesn't work. It doesn't have any option to zoom in/out so it is useless on any Android phone (I assume "any" since all phones are "small screen").

29 minutes ago, Commander Steps said:

if you use a current version of chrome or Firefox

And no, that doesn't work either. Updated Mozilla shows the same message as Chrome does.

But I think I am done now. I can't use it and I have no reason to suggest it to anyone wanting to use it because I will have to go through a series of instructions of "in which occassions does the site actually work"

[Commander Steps]

Just now, sakura_sk said:

No. Because like I said multiple times (and probably whoever developed the site already knows) it doesn't work. It doesn't have any option to zoom in/out so it is useless on any Android phone (I assume "any" since all phones are "small screen").

I developed the map explorer and like I said multiple times it's not desigend for small screens. That's what the message says.
You can use it with the "Desktop mode" option of your Android browser. That was confirmed working by some people - but the fonts are small, so not a good experience.
 

1 minute ago, sakura_sk said:

And no, that doesn't work either. Updated Mozilla shows the same message as Chrome does.

The current version of Firefox 133.0.3 works for me.
What version are you using?
 

3 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

But I think I am done now. I can't use it and I have no reason to suggest it to anyone wanting to use it

That's fine and up to you. You can wait until Cairaths finds the time to bring TNI back. Good look with that.

[sakura_sk]

7 minutes ago, Commander Steps said:

You can use it with the "Desktop mode" option of your Android browser. That was confirmed working by some people - but the fonts are small, so not a good experience.

Since you don't seem to understand what I am saying... Font size is not the problem.

This is how it looks if you already chose the "pc view" option before you load the page. You can't scroll further up, you can't zoom in or out and the top of the page is not visible.

You can't navigate that page at all because scrolling clicks random maps and you have no option to go back to previous view of maps.

If you chose "pc view" while the page was showing the "sorry" message, everything shows up zoomed in and impossible to navigate.

If that's considered "working" well ... Then I guess it's my fault for not being able to ever use it.

14 minutes ago, Commander Steps said:

You can wait until Cairaths finds the time to bring TNI back.

You are the one that keeps referring to TNI. You seem to still try to compare Maps Not Included to TNI and you don't try to make the site something that currently works. You even dismissed feedback as lying. I don't know what to say about that...

[Commander Steps]

Just now, sakura_sk said:

If that's considered "working" well ... Then I guess it's my fault for not being able to ever use it.

How well it works depends on the implementation of the "desktop mode" / "pc mode" of the Android browser.
There are devices where it works better (just with small fonts) - that's not the case for you.

Currently the page is not designed to be used my mobile phones / small screens.

For now it's designed for Desktop.
I just named you a working browser: Firefox 133.0.3

3 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

You are the one that keeps referring to TNI

Of course, MapsNotIncluded is the unofficial successor of TNI.

3 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

You even dismissed feedback as lying.

Yes, because you initially claimed that there was no search functionality.

By now it's clear that you confused the trait finder with the map explorer.
That's the only explanation for the confusing statements you made before.

---

The site works if you use a current Firefox or Chrome on an up-to-date Windows.

That's all I have to say to that.

For some reason you choose to browse the web with an outdated chrome on Windows 8.1.
I really can't help you with that.

Everything I can take from this conversation with you is just that I'm going to update the "Safari"-message to "Your browser is too old".

[sakura_sk]

8 minutes ago, Commander Steps said:

For some reason you choose to browse the web with an outdated chrome on Windows 8.1.
I really can't help you with that.

You are asking me to update a browser to an update it has no option to go. If you don't know what works and doesn't work for the options I showed you, don't suggest it. The further Mozilla goes on windows 8.1 is 115.18.0esr. If you didn't know that, now you do

[Commander Steps]

Just now, sakura_sk said:

If you don't know what works and doesn't work for the options I showed you, don't suggest it.

Was worth a try as it could have worked.

Just now, sakura_sk said:

The further Mozilla goes on windows 8.1 is 115.18.0esr. If you didn't know that, now you do

No, I wasn’t aware of the specific version limits for each old operating system.

Do you have a particular reason for staying on Windows 8.1 instead of upgrading to at least Windows 10? Just curious.

For my seed browser, I decided to use WebAssembly, a relatively new technology. I enjoy working with contemporary tools and technologies.

As for TNI, it didn’t work properly on mobile phones either, so I strongly assume you used it on a desktop. The technology used there is quite old, which explains why it doesn’t have the same limitations.

I guess I’ll have to accept that my seed browser won’t be accessible to everyone under these circumstances. Sorry to hear that.
I can't do anything to make it work without proper WebAssembly support and I won't switch the tech.

[sakura_sk]

5 minutes ago, Commander Steps said:

Do you have a particular reason for staying on Windows 8.1 instead of upgrading to at least Windows 10? Just curious.

ehmmm... can't upgrade anymore since January 2023. I didn't decide that.

[Commander Steps]

Just now, sakura_sk said:

ehmmm... can't upgrade anymore since January 2023. I didn't decide that.

January 2023 was the end-of-life for Windows 8.1 support.
I used the free Windows 10 update back then.

What is your Windows device?
Can't that run Windows 10?

Maybe this helps you:
https://uk.pcmag.com/migrated-3765-windows-10/143981/still-stuck-on-windows-81-how-to-upgrade-to-windows-10-or-windows-11

You shouldn't really use an outdated OS & browser. It's not safe.

[Commander Steps]

The new version includes some improvements for small screens, making it usable now - the warning has been removed. However, it’s still not fully optimized or visually appealing. For the best experience, using it on a larger screen is recommended.

Any ideas for a mobile layout are welcome.

[SharraShimada]

16 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

ehmmm... can't upgrade anymore since January 2023. I didn't decide that.

Sorry to jump in on that, but you will get into even more trouble by the day now, if you stick with Windows 8.1. Its no longer supported, Neither by Microsoft, nor by Chrome, Firefox, or even STEAM. Your PC is a walking safety hazard, not only for your own data, but for the whole internet, because its not the question IF your PC get hacked, but only when.

Yeah, you cant upgrade anymore for free. But you can always buy a cheap key from the internet. And the download of Win10 or 11 is always free from original Microsoft sites.

So please stop complaining about a YOU-problem. This will only result in a full time job for you over the next few months, when more and more software stops working on your deprecated system. I hope you get your stuff in order, and a happy new year soon.

[sakura_sk]

17 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

So please stop complaining about a YOU-problem.

I complained saying it is windows 8.1 since the beginning to get the answers "it works" and "you are lying". 

It's a pc I used 4 times this year and yes, it became more unusable lately but I should be able to open a site instead of getting a "I like to use shiny things" response from the site's developer as an answer to why I can't use it.

I didn't assume it's anyone's problem if my pc works or not but I was also told to "use a tablet or a desktop" instead of a phone.

Don't worry. I will take care of that pc eventually. Either retiring it or upgrading it. And I will make sure I won't bother with Maps Not Included anymore.

[Commander Steps]

@Vertel To say it with Cairath's words: "I don't see you spending hundreds of dollars and hours of work time on providing the community with a free service, so please do before you yap your mouth online"  

---

For others, to provide some context what's going on here:

The argument, "Why don't you support a completely obsolete and unsupported OS?" is purely bad faith, nothing more.

Sakura_sk and Vertel are moderators on Cairath's unofficial ONI Discord and close friends of hers. They attack me because I accomplished something Cairath didn't: bringing back TNI.

7 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

"I like to use shiny things" response from the site's developer as an answer to why I can't use it

I’ve explained several times why you can’t use it: your browser is outdated, and small screens aren’t currently supported.

Unfortunately, I can’t do anything about the browser issue, but I’ve been working on improving mobile support. As of yesterday, it should be a bit better now.

Please remember, I’m not obligated to provide the community with a free service. If I decide to rebuild TNI as a side project, I’m free to choose the technologies I prefer.

If you’d like me to use specific technologies, you’re welcome to hire and compensate me. Otherwise, I’ll continue to make the choices that work best for my projects.

[sakura_sk]

1 hour ago, Commander Steps said:

Sakura_sk and Vertel are moderators on Cairath's unofficial ONI Discord and close friends of hers.

Riiight.... Because not understanding how what you built works and not being able to use it is totally relevant to a previous site that doesn't exist anymore and you insisted repeatedly you have every right to copy. Congrats! You made a bad copy.

You really want to start that argument again?

I don't compare your site with TNI. You do that since the beginning.

I didn't tell you what to use as a developer. If you don't want people to be able to access your site, that's fine. You were the one accusing me of lying and it's impossible to not being able to access the site.

If you feel attacked remember that you started it by refusing to accept your site doesn't work for me and providing misleading info in the process.

[Commander Steps]

2 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

Because not understanding how what you built works

I understand that very well. You are the one lacking understanding.
 

2 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

insisted repeatedly you have every right to copy

You attack me here because MapsNotIncluded is inspired by TNI and you (as well as other mods of Cairath's Discord) believe I have no right to revive it.
I guess as a moderator on Cairath's discord you need to do this to please her or something like that. Just be honest about your mission.
 

4 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

You made a bad copy.

Nope, I actually improved in many ways over the original. Truth is that I made a great successor.
 

5 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

If you don't want people to be able to access your site, that's fine.

I want people to access my site. Most people can.

Right now I'm sitting on improving the phone / small screen support so that you as well can use my service.

Try it: It's already better than yesterday with more improvements to come.

8 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

You were the one accusing me of lying

Yes, you claimed that there was no search and it will only display 5 results without a map and such stuff.

By now I'm certain that you just confused it with the trait finder. You could have said "Sorry, I was wrong", but you literally look for things bad about MapsNotIncluded. That's bad faith.

10 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

If you feel attacked remember that you started it by refusing to accept your site doesn't work for me and providing misleading info in the process.

An honest person would have said at the very start of the beginning "Hey, I'm using an old OS with an outdated browser. The site seems not to work for that".

But no, you claimed that it doesn't work at all which is false.

Then you said Android is not supported - that was also a blatant lie. Android is supported.
Just small screens are not. The message in the screenshot said exactly that, but maybe you have no reading comprehension whatsoever.

Use an Android Tablet and everything will be well.

Phones work now, too - but they'll see an alternative view with reduced details, because a small doesn't fit everything at once and I don't prefer to display a utterly broken site on mobile like TNI did.

13 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

providing misleading info in the process.

I told you to test if the Desktop / PC mode of your Android browser works better. That works for a lot of people. It was worth a try.

I said that three times now. What's wrong with you?

---

This discussion is going nowhere, so I won't answer anymore.

I wish everyone happy holidays.

[Primalflower]

On 12/28/2024 at 7:08 AM, sakura_sk said:

Android isn't supported 

it seems to work just fine for me?

all versions of chrome/firefox on the android have desktop mode, no?

[sakura_sk]

1 minute ago, Primalflower said:

it seems to work just fine for me?

Since yesterday, yes, it somewhat "works". At least it appears on screen.

[Primalflower]

Just now, sakura_sk said:

Since yesterday, yes, it somewhat "works". At least it appears on screen.

No, it's worked since quite a few days ago at the very least, at least since before christmas. I barely close my tabs, and I remember checking this out on my own terms before while I was at work. IDK, the wording of this combined with your insistence from before comes across as a bit of bad faith on your part

[sakura_sk]

1 minute ago, Primalflower said:

bad faith

"Android Phone"

I was told to go buy a tablet instead 

[Primalflower]

15 minutes ago, sakura_sk said:

"Android Phone"

I was told to go buy a tablet instead 

My thought is more that if you were trying to put a thorough critique/bug report on the website then you probably would have tried desktop mode and saw that it worked like me (or at least like idk mentioned trying it...?), and that the fact that this is absent from your posts is... suspect

I think that commander steps could have feasibly been nicer but if your response is "he started it" by offering some at worst questionable developer bugfixing responses recommending you just get a bigger screen then i feel like we've gotten off on the wrong foot here and we should all mutually take a step back and try to come at this in a more productive manner

[sakura_sk]

9 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

then you probably would have tried desktop mode and saw that it worked like me

These are previous screenshots of desktop mode if for some reason you need to have them posted again:

Yes, both are desktop mode on PHONE (in case "android" is misunderstood again...).

Yes, there is no option to zoom in/out like on any other page you open that way. There is also no option to navigate the site. If you click something, you can't go back.

These are current screenshots of the site on desktop mode:

No, I didn't scroll down. It loads scrolled and missing the top part.

There is still no option to navigate back if you click something or zoom in/out like any other page.

Am I supposed to know what is wrong with it? Since the beginning I said "I can't use it". "Small screens not supported" means I can't use my phone at all to access the site. I presented my other option that is also "not supported".

I can't see how that is "bad faith" but you keep thinking that I have "an agenda".

My feedback was "I can't use the site" and it remains the same.