Dragonfly rework is necessary

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Yeah, Enrage is like, the fun part of the fight IMO.

Because Normal Phase is a glorified Beefalo.

Totally agree. Klei needs to refresh this boss by adding atacks and, imo, removing how her atack is landed. I always find in videogames very dumb to count to evade an atack... there is no skill involved, i prefer telegraphing atacks which requires reflex and skill

[Cruvimaster]

I don't consider using a wall as cheating, especially since the new Maxwell (reworked) exists.

However, using the cage with Maxwell requires an active stance from the player, controlling time and sanity throughout the fight.

The artificial intelligence of the larvae is ridiculous to the point that they can't even get around a simple row of walls. Furthermore, people use signs between the walls to force the larvae to not move.

In my opinion, Dragonfly should be in enraged form whenever the larvae are trapped.

One thing that annoys me is the fact that Dragonfly summons more than one larva in the same magma.

I don't think Dragonfly needs a complete rework, but small adjustments to improve the AI.

[grm9]

37 minutes ago, arubaro said:

telegraphing atacks which requires reflex and skill

no, they simply require a good enough reaction time, no skill needed, that's why all new bosses suck, there's nothing skillful that you can do, since there's only 1 strat for the fight and it's very simple

[arubaro]

18 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no, they simply require a good enough reaction time, no skill needed, that's why all new bosses suck, there's nothing skillful that you can do, since there's only 1 strat for the fight and it's very simple

Thanks for describing what skill means 

[Sanitar]

Dragon Fly is a perfect example of why the old KLEI couldn't design bosses. If you do not use the cheese in the form of walls, then the boss is not killed, in total you get zero fun. If you use walls, then the boss becomes killable, but you still don't get any fun, because hitting and running away for 16 minutes is not fun. The worst boss since the old crab King.In games, boss battles should be fun, not just a very valuable reward.

 

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Thanks for describing what skill means 

a good reaction time isn't skill

2 minutes ago, Sanitar said:

If you do not use the cheese in the form of walls, then the boss is not killed

???

just say "i'm bad at the game and blame it instead of myself"

4 minutes ago, Sanitar said:

the old KLEI couldn't design bosses

they added the best boss 7 years ago, we've only got 1 remotely good boss since then, they've started making worse bosses

[ChintzyGnat]

15 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i'm bad at the game and blame it instead of mysel

Idk why you keep going to this goofy response...

[Echsrick]

maybe walls never were a cheese to begin with, maybe the walls were the untold answere all along, just like teleporting during fuelweaver, or do you wish to take damage that could have been avoided?

[arubaro]

42 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

maybe walls never were a cheese to begin with, maybe the walls were the untold answere all along, just like teleporting during fuelweaver, or do you wish to take damage that could have been avoided?

How using lazy explorer to scape a trap by teleporting is comparable to klei designing the lavae to work like that when you place walls in a specific way as an intended feature when they coded the lavaes to interact with the freezing status in a specific way? If only that made the fight funnier...but it makes the player stays afk for too long and the lavae not going throw certain obstacles like lava ponds isn't intuitive

Im not against people using walls but some people are making some crazy mental acrobatics to make up them using cheese as something legit

[dois raios]

Dont rework more bosses please klei.

[00petar00]

Dragonfly is very fun and simple but hard fight and we need more bosses like that but easier to teach new players how to kite. I don't think every boss needs to have X number of mechanics or it is considered terrible. 

New players don't have a ramp up in difficulty that is reasonable it literally goes from being able to survive and kill deerclops to much more difficult bosses and raid bosses.

What I think would be a good idea is to port dragonfly from ROG to DST. Introduce it as a baby dragonfly that will only spawn during summer If dragonfly is alive, we need weaker bosses or mobs that will ramp up the difficulty appropriately.

The problem with this idea is that we already have antlion and players don't like to be spammed and forced to do stuff so I would just scrap antlion abilities that force players to interact with the boss (sinkholes and boulders)  and add small dragonfly because it would be better for players to actually learn how to fight better.

[grm9]

28 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

New players don't have a ramp up in difficulty that is reasonable it literally goes from being able to survive and kill deerclops to much more difficult bosses and raid bosses

adding DS dfly won't help with that because knowledge from fighting it won't apply to ANR bosses

[Guille6785]

3 hours ago, Sanitar said:

Dragon Fly is a perfect example of why the old KLEI couldn't design bosses.

it's the old Klei that understood what made their bosses work in the context of the game, the new klei is just trying to impress streamers with their terraria/souls inspired bosses where you just press A and D the entire fight

[00petar00]

5 minutes ago, grm9 said:

they do, since werepigs, frostjaw and EoT exist now

The issue with your arguments is that often you speak about your own experience. Most new and casual players have never explored caves or even sailed. 

A completely new player won't go to caves or sail but try to survive and when they are able to do that for a full year they will think about going further. There is a need for difficulty ramp up in DST that allows them to transition to more difficult fights that currently don't exist on surface that they will experience on their own. New players will avoid bosses that seem scary but If they are guided to fight something they will see that it isn't as difficult and learn.

I am not saying that new players won't try to fight but that once they realize how hard it is to kill a raid boss and after X attempts they will stop so they need encouragement and easier bosses, this would help the game immensely and you wouldn't see so many threads asking for boss nerfs.

[Gashzer]

19 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

it's the old Klei that understood what made their bosses work in the context of the game, the new klei is just trying to impress streamers with their terraria/souls inspired bosses where you just press A and D the entire fight

Yeah let's bring back old klei!

Bosses that only have up to 4000 hp and allow us to armour stack again. Klei could learn alot from looking back at the old single player dont starve.

To solve the bosses being too easy in teams, add scaling hp with increased loot and a rare blueprint for every person that joined the fight.

 

[grm9]

13 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The issue with your arguments is that often you speak about your own experience. Most new and casual players have never explored caves or even sailed. 

A completely new player won't go to caves or sail but try to survive and when they are able to do that for a full year they will think about going further. There is a need for difficulty ramp up in DST that allows them to transition to more difficult fights that currently don't exist on surface that they will experience on their own. New players will avoid bosses that seem scary but If they are guided to fight something they will see that it isn't as difficult and learn.

I am not saying that new players won't try to fight but that once they realize how hard it is to kill a raid boss and after X attempts they will stop so they need encouragement and easier bosses, this would help the game immensely and you wouldn't see so many threads asking for boss nerfs

edited because nvm, forgot that knowledge from killing new bosses doesn't help with killing old bosses because new bosses only require dodging and old bosses require you to think about how to counter their attacks since simply walking either requires specific timing or doesn't work against some of their attacks, same'd apply to DS dfly, killing a boss that only allows you to dodge, tank or kill it quickly e.g. through using gun powder won't help with killing a boss that all those solutions don't work for

[Sanitar]

29 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

it's the old Klei that understood what made their bosses work in the context of the game, the new klei is just trying to impress streamers with their terraria/souls inspired bosses where you just press A and D the entire fight

In the battle with dragonfly, all you do is press A and D. Is it fun to kill the boss with the same action for 16 minutes? Obviously not.

For a dragonfly to be fun, it should have 5,000 hp or 10,000 hp, but not the absurd 27500hp. If you give 50,000 hp to Ent or Deerclops, will this make the boss a good one? No, because this is an artificial stretching of the battle process, as happened with the dragonfly.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Sanitar said:

In the battle with dragonfly, all you do is press A and D

no? did you ever try fighting dfly through using any strat except the wall with pan flute?

[00petar00]

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

edited because nvm, forgot that knowledge from killing new bosses doesn't help with killing old bosses because new bosses only require dodging and old bosses require you to think about how to counter their attacks since simply walking either requires specific timing or doesn't work against some of their attacks, same'd apply to DS dfly, killing a boss that only allows you to dodge, tank or kill it quickly e.g. through using gun powder won't help with killing a boss that all those solutions don't work for

The point is that players need to have options and they start with easier bosse.

I am not saying that they should use gunpowder literally no one does that anymore at least on the endless servers that I play on. You can either kill a boss or you can't do it alone and ask for help from other active players.

The idea is that you start learning kiting with easier patterns and get better at the game to kite more difficult bosses. Kiting may be more difficult with new bosses but If you don't know how to kite old bosses you are going to have even more of a difficult time.

[grm9]

Just now, 00petar00 said:

The idea is that you start learning kiting with easier patterns and get better at the game to kite more difficult bosses

the problem's that being able to kite's the least important thing for killing old bosses

1 minute ago, 00petar00 said:

Kiting may be more difficult with new bosses but If you don't know how to kite old bosses you are going to have even more of a difficult time

you do realise that old bosses mean BQ, dfly, toad and FW and not DS dfly or whatever? the sentence doesn't apply in that case

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I am not saying that they should use gunpowder literally no one does that anymore

people did that back then for DS dfly

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The point is that players need to have options and they start with easier bosse

knowledge from killing DS dfly won't help them with killing DST dfly, BQ, toad etc.

[Guille6785]

16 minutes ago, Sanitar said:

Is it fun to kill the boss with the same action for 16 minutes?

what???????

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Sanitar said:

In the battle with dragonfly, all you do is press A and D. Is it fun to kill the boss with the same action for 16 minutes? Obviously not.

For a dragonfly to be fun, it should have 5,000 hp or 10,000 hp, but not the absurd 27500hp. If you give 50,000 hp to Ent or Deerclops, will this make the boss a good one? No, because this is an artificial stretching of the battle process, as happened with the dragonfly.

Or keep the hp but make her more dynamic so isnt just counting to 7 for 10 min. 

[Ridley]

35 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

it's the old Klei that understood what made their bosses work in the context of the game, the new klei is just trying to impress streamers with their terraria/souls inspired bosses where you just press A and D the entire fight

The old Klei was experimenting with making a raid boss out of Dragonfly as precursor to ANR. The purpose of Dragonfly and the raid bosses that followed were to promote the multiplayer aspect of the game to make it stand apart from DS.

Quote

"Then later when the game was released for a LONG time, it was JUST Don't Starve but multiplayer. A New Reign was specifically to bring new content informed by the concept of a multiplayer game, and we moved forward. " - JoeW

So what is the context of the game? I think it has shifted overtime but during ANR it seems Klei believed challenges should be built from the perspective a server of friends. This has always bothered me about raid bosses because the context of my games are singleplayer most of the time. Scaling was suggested by some as an acceptable middleground at the time, especially since certain mobs from DS had a health increase, but obviously it was never taken up.

Which is to say, old Klei was making bosses to change the context of game to multiplayer. 

And as far as Dragonfly goes, the poor thing was the first raid boss and could use a tune up. The stun mechanic is a bit out of place as a win-more mechanic, there is no reason to not skip the enrage phase, Larvaes have bad AI (and I dispute half the hits they land on me), and most of the fight is literally pressing A and D.

[kroban]

On 8/4/2024 at 4:51 AM, douan33 said:

Other than that you kill it once and there's no reason to do it ever again

Bro what? In the couple of endless servers I have played there are huge reasons to farm DF.

- Everyone wants to get the furnace blueprint, specially when there are multiple bases.

- Theres always some mfking rusher that empty ruins at like day 5 when resets happen, so some people farm DF during early-mid game as an alternative way to get gems without having to spend their entire early game preparing for Fuelweaver + an entire clearing of ruins, specially the players that play more chill, aren't tryharding the run, or don't know how to solo bosses.

- And theres also people that farm scales for chests or even for making multiple furnaces in their bases, farms, etc. And yeah you can dupe scales, but using green staff on scales is kind of a waste, even more so if you are not swimming in gems, by killing DF you are solving both of these issues

On 8/5/2024 at 2:31 PM, 00petar00 said:

A completely new player won't go to caves or sail but try to survive and when they are able to do that for a full year they will think about going further.

I agree but its not even only new players, I know people with +5k hours in DST that don't enjoy starting the endless rushing towards ruins + fuelweaver + CC at like day 60, hell, I have met players that won't even sail until like day 1500

[ChintzyGnat]

This is an argument on an old boss between people who animation cancel almost every attack and use the least armor vs the average player.