Dragonfly rework is necessary

[AliceShiki]

12 hours ago, goblinball said:

The alternative is fighting dfly without the wall cheese which like… why would you do that? I know it’s doable even solo but it’s simply too challenging and for what?

For the fun experience?

I dunno, the fight was fun to me, and that's enough reason for me to kill an optional boss... I mean, rewards and fun are basically the only reason why I'd care about fighting an optional boss in the first place.

5 hours ago, Sanitar said:

 If you do not use the cheese in the form of walls, then the boss is not killed, in total you get zero fun.

I mean... The boss is totally killable without walls/panflute/icestaff... I don't get your comment much. And it's actually pretty fun to do it too.

Can you elaborate on what you dislike on the Larvae/Enraged Phases? I find them challenging, but simple and intuitive at the same time, which leads to a pretty fun experience that is easy to see your progress in as you try the fight again, since you can usually understand where you messed up somewhat easily during the fight, so improving on it comes kinda naturally as you try again.

[dois raios]

3 hours ago, Sanitar said:

In the battle with dragonfly, all you do is press A and D. Is it fun to kill the boss with the same action for 16 minutes? Obviously not.

Am I the only one seeing the irony here?

What do you think will happen if klei rework dfly?????

They will make dfly killable only using a weapon and AWSD.

And it would last like 2 minutes or less bc they would decrease her health too.

(Where is the fun?????)

 

It is better to continue giving characters skill trees (so bosses get weaker indirectly) than nerfing bosses directly.

Every character will receive skill tree anyway.

[grm9]

2 hours ago, ChintzyGnat said:

This is an argument on an old boss between people who animation cancel almost every attack and use the least armor vs the average player

does getting good at the game invalidate your opinion

2 hours ago, Ridley said:

So what is the context of the game? I think it has shifted overtime but during ANR it seems Klei believed challenges should be built from the perspective a server of friends

there was another post about also taking solo players into account iirc, that's why toad time limit got removed quickly iirc

2 hours ago, Ridley said:

Which is to say, old Klei was making bosses to change the context of game to multiplayer

why do you get most fun out of fighting them solo then

2 hours ago, Ridley said:

there is no reason to not skip the enrage phase

if they'll add it, people'll most likely complain about it being too hard because they'll want whatever they'll get from it unless it's just more of a resource that they can get through something else

2 hours ago, Ridley said:

most of the fight is literally pressing A and D

try without walls and pan flute

2 hours ago, Ridley said:

Larvaes have bad AI

does this mean anything at all except "i don't like that people use walls"

2 hours ago, Ridley said:

I dispute half the hits they land on me

that's because they hit you through a circle so it only looks bad at the sides since they're ovals instead of circles

[AliceShiki]

37 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that's because they hit you through a circle so it only looks bad at the sides since they're ovals instead of circles

Oh, so that's why their hitbox was so wacky!?

That explains a lot. While learning how to solo Dfly, I had to just accept that their hitbox was very weird and simply tried to manage it by making bigger movements to avoid them and stuff... Now it makes sense.

Thanks for sharing that~

[Ridley]

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

there was another post about also taking solo players into account iirc, that's why toad time limit got removed quickly iirc

why do you get most fun out of fighting them solo then

if they'll add it, people'll most likely complain about it being too hard because they'll want whatever they'll get from it unless it's just more of a resource that they can get through something else

try without walls and pan flute

does this mean anything at all except "i don't like that people use walls"

that's because they hit you through a circle so it only looks bad at the sides since they're ovals instead of circles

Toad got its time limit removed for multiple reasons (but I have a conspiracy theory it was removed because it just really sucked the fun out), the bosses aren't balanced well for multiplayer either so they just kind of keel over with groups, I believe we can imagine a world where the enraged state is handled better, DF without walls and pan flute is still mostly pressing two buttons to dodge over and over (or I guess you can just stand there with the Scalemail), I always use walls but I am interested in them trying to tear through like the moonstaff event, and I figured Larvae attack like Spider Warriors but I find the Spider Warriors are much easier to dodge. 

[douan33]

15 hours ago, kroban said:

Bro what? In the couple of endless servers I have played there are huge reasons to farm DF.

 

Honestly this is mostly a you experience. "We must kill Dragonfly multiple times because in our friend group we build multiple bases" is not really a good argument why Dragonfly shouldn't get a rework.

17 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Dragonfly is very fun and simple but hard fight and we need more bosses like that but easier to teach new players how to kite. I don't think every boss needs to have X number of mechanics or it is considered terrible. 

 

That's not why I said the boss needs a rework. They can at least rework the drops or how furnaces work, plus Dragonfly is not really kiteable and it is arguably worse to kite than to tank.  

First of all without cheesing it you can't really kite the lavaes and you are bound to take damage, and who would want that? Who prefers to do it without walls? And when you use walls like most of the players who know how to cheese it there's not really a reason to kite it as the boss gives you like a 20 second frame where you can heal or even go through your messages on your phone.

[grm9]

8 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Dragonfly is not really kiteable and it is arguably worse to kite than to tank

misinformation

9 minutes ago, douan33 said:

without cheesing it you can't really kite the lavaes and you are bound to take damage

misinformation

9 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Who prefers to do it without walls?

many people do because that's more fun

9 minutes ago, douan33 said:

when you use walls like most of the players who know how to cheese it there's not really a reason to kite it as the boss gives you like a 20 second frame where you can heal or even go through your messages on your phone

you can't get all the armor and healing that you'll spend before next lavaes phase in 20 seconds

10 minutes ago, douan33 said:

rework the drops or how furnaces work

why?

[douan33]

On 8/4/2024 at 10:17 PM, ChintzyGnat said:

Dragonfly doesn't need a rework. The issue with dragon fly is there is no incentive to fight her after. She just drops to little scales so I'd rather just use the decon staff. 

Isn't that a reason to rework it? Now that furnaces can be used as trash can (seems like there's more potential to it than just a really weak starcaller staff) and now that infinite chests are a thing (scaled chests suck) they can at least make the drops more different, maybe add actual not one time use for scales too.

 

On 8/5/2024 at 12:51 PM, Anis5240 said:

This game (DS) used to revolve around unconventional uses or things in the game to defeat mobs/enemies/bosses. First thing it had as weapons are darts. So like, being cowardly in the game, be it DS or DST it's in their nature. Using walls to block off larvae? It's just the same thing as you trying to defend the moonstone event.

The problem is not walling larvaes, it is that when you kill the boss there's not really a reason to kill it again. There's sproutrocks that replace dragonfly loot, infinite chests that replace scaled chests, starcaller staffs replace furnaces way better (although I really LOVE furnace), and even your world gen can effect if it is worth to kill Dragonfly or not (my group's cave's gives us super easy access to ruins). 

No good loot, a fight where you can just text while waiting for boss to comeback, no reason to use any other button than F, etc.

 

[grm9]

1 minute ago, douan33 said:

no reason to use any other button than F

getting fun when fighting the boss and saving time because of not waiting and not getting resources that're required for tanking?

2 minutes ago, douan33 said:

a fight where you can just text while waiting for boss to comeback

don't use walls then

8 hours ago, Ridley said:

DF without walls and pan flute is still mostly pressing two buttons to dodge over and over 

no, you need to kill lavaes and shoot dfly after stomp and get close to it to make it do a stationary attack instead of flying to not get hit

8 hours ago, Ridley said:

I figured Larvae attack like Spider Warriors but I find the Spider Warriors are much easier to dodge.

because spiders're circles and lavaes're ovals but both hit through a circle so it looks bad at lavaes' sides

8 hours ago, Ridley said:

I always use walls but I am interested in them trying to tear through like the moonstaff event

so that you'll just need to get more walls or repair materials for them?

8 hours ago, Ridley said:

I believe we can imagine a world where the enraged state is handled better

what specifically's bad about it?

[douan33]

Just now, grm9 said:

misinformation (1)

 

Not misinformation. DST always had an internet connection problem, I always struggle with any lag compensation settings when it comes to bosses with extended attack hitboxes. I don't know how I can explain this, but let's just say that I think you know that doding a treeguard is easier than dodging the bearger. In fact I just watched a warly dragonfly speedrun, ideally as Warly you do not want to get hit in a speedrun since you won't leave much time for healing food to cook. But the guy kept getting hit multiple times, why? because Dragonfly is bound to hit you unlike a treeguard. Plus it is arguable that you want to tank it since the boss leaves you a free time and more hits equal more likely to stun it.

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

misinformation (2)

 

Again, how is this a misinformation? Lavaes burn you when they hit you, there's lots of them in Dragonfly fight + dragonfly is faster than you in normal circumstances so it catches up to you stunning you letting lavaes hit you.

 

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

many people do because that's more fun

 

Extremely arguable and not a good point. Especially since there's no real use in fighting it more than once.

 

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you can't get all the armor and healing that you'll spend before next lavaes phase in 20 seconds

 

Misinformation... If you can prepare armors and healing food for no walls fight you can prepare the same items for a fight with walls. And since it is easier to kite with walls cheese since there's no larvae... this is just wrong...

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why?

1. Scales can be multiplied

2. There's a lot of scenarios where you don't need to fight Dragonfly for it's gem drops like world gen, sproutrocks, or even the character you choose (Wanda's easy access to ruins, WX' heat circuits if that's why you use furnace)

3. There's a lot of replacements for furnace. I myself like to base in Dragonfly desert for the abundance of good sides of being there, which includes lava pools (although there's not really a reason to build at least one furnace)

The drops are just weak, the boss is just a glorified beefalo like someone else said.

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

getting fun when fighting the boss and saving time because of not waiting and not getting resources that're required for tanking?

 

What resources do you need other than a stack of rocks at most (less or more depending on world gen) to tank that you don't need when you fight is the intented way? If anything you need more healing food as an average player when you don't choose to cheese it. Plus the "fun" you are talking about is a you thing and it doesn't change that boss' drops are weak and even though it has it's own biome it is a weak boss itself in general.

11 minutes ago, grm9 said:

don't use walls then

Please reply with a good argument so that we can brainstorm, maybe Klei will consider these replies... It is just better to use walls unless you have fun otherwise.

 

12 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no, you need to kill lavaes and shoot dfly after stomp and get close to it to make it do a stationary attack instead of flying to not get hit

I'd say "use walls then" but that is neither a quote to my comment nor it is a good argument 

 

[grm9]

15 minutes ago, douan33 said:

DST always had an internet connection problem, I always struggle with any lag compensation settings when it comes to bosses with extended attack hitboxes

so kiting's automatically a bad idea for everyone because you specifically got lag when playing on some specific server and couldn't kite with it?

15 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Dragonfly is bound to hit you unlike a treeguard

no, you can dodge it

15 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Plus it is arguable that you want to tank it since the boss leaves you a free time and more hits equal more likely to stun it

there's a threshold for stunning it and you can't stun it even when tanking when playing as an x1 damage character without minions and stun goes onto a 1 minute cd after you stun it so that's pointless in those scenarios

15 minutes ago, douan33 said:

In fact I just watched a warly dragonfly speedrun

so? someone could be bad and do a speedrun anyway, that run isn't a WR and iirc there never was a warly WR run

15 minutes ago, douan33 said:

ideally as Warly you do not want to get hit in a speedrun since you won't leave much time for healing food to cook

people often tank during speed runs because they can spend most of their hp with no consequences because the run'll still count even if you'll die but if you're going to continue that world, you'll need to spend time on getting revived, end up with the world regenerating because of the count down or spend time on getting all the hp back if you spent some of it but didn't die, so some speed run strats don't apply to playing normally

15 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Again, how is this a misinformation? Lavaes burn you when they hit you, there's lots of them in Dragonfly fight + dragonfly is faster than you in normal circumstances so it catches up to you stunning you letting lavaes hit you

that's misinformation because there're many dfly kills without walls, pan flute or getting hit, you can freeze them before they reach you and you can shoot dfly once to get closer to it during hit anim to make it do a stationary attack to dodge it

15 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Extremely arguable and not a good point. Especially since there's no real use in fighting it more than once

???

how's many people liking doing the fight that way arguable? are you going to argue that they don't exist or lie about that and do things that they don't like for no reason? how's amount of times you fight it per world related to this?

15 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Misinformation... If you can prepare armors and healing food for no walls fight you can prepare the same items for a fight with walls. And since it is easier to kite with walls cheese since there's no larvae... this is just wrong...

read the message again, what you said didn't make any sense at all, i'm telling you that you can't get all the armor and healing that you need for until next lavae phase in 20 seconds, so you'll need to spend additional time before the fight to get armor and healing if you tank unlike if you kite, you're not even supposed to kite more in comparison to 1 or 2 attacks when lavaes're alive because you'd want to kill them before getting back to attacking dfly again

15 minutes ago, douan33 said:

1. Scales can be multiplied

2. There's a lot of scenarios where you don't need to fight Dragonfly for it's gem drops like world gen, sproutrocks, or even the character you choose (Wanda's easy access to ruins, WX' heat circuits if that's why you use furnace)

3. There's a lot of replacements for furnace. I myself like to base in Dragonfly desert for the abundance of good sides of being there, which includes lava pools (although there's not really a reason to build at least one furnace)

a lot (lava ponds that require you to go to dfly and nothing else because the point of the furnace's that it constantly heats you up and doesn't require anything after you place it except just getting close enough to it), gem trees require wasting time on sailing and require around a year or 2 to get fruits out of them for the 1st time iirc so that's simply nonsensical, idk what's the issue with multiplying scales through green gems

16 minutes ago, douan33 said:

What resources do you need other than a stack of rocks at most (less or more depending on world gen) to tank that you don't need when you fight is the intented way?

you don't need armor and healing if you don't tank

17 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Plus the "fun" you are talking about is a you thing

no, most people that killed the boss without walls at least once think that that's more fun

18 minutes ago, douan33 said:

it doesn't change that boss' drops are weak

what does weak even mean in this context and how do you know if something's objectively weak considering that weak has no specific meaning so using that as an argument for anything's pointless

19 minutes ago, douan33 said:

even though it has it's own biome it is a weak boss itself in general

just worthless text again, this literally doesn't mean anything because weak doesn't mean anything in this context

20 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Please reply with a good argument so that we can brainstorm, maybe Klei will consider these replies... It is just better to use walls unless you have fun otherwise

using walls's worse in comparison to not using them btw because you waste time on getting resources for them, making and placing them, waiting for dfly to come back after spawning lavaes and dfly spawning more lavaes instead of enraging with a 50% chance after last lavae died because it died because of self destruction timer instead of something killing it before that

26 minutes ago, douan33 said:

I'd say "use walls then"

???

"the fight's fun because of those things"

"use walls to remove the fun things then"

26 minutes ago, douan33 said:

so that we can brainstorm

no need, the boss can stay the way it's because it's fine, it's weird that people constantly complain about it being not fun with walls instead of just not using walls

[douan33]

11 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so kiting's automatically a bad idea for everyone because you specifically got lag when playing on some specific server and couldn't kite with it?

no, you can dodge it

 

I think there's a difference between you and me when we say "kiteable" in my first reply to you I said "not really kiteable". Good for you if you can take no hits from dragonfly with laraves around too, I really find it amazing. Although I will still sit by the opinion that dragonfly is not really kiteable since it is faster than you, there's lots of larvae during the fight, and since it is generally a good idea to kill it before the first winter you probably won't have any speed buffs equipped. Also let me add that this post is not about if you can kill dragonfly with walls or not, both is doable and each technique is fun for different people.

1. It is about how dragonfly loses it's purpose after the first fight

2. The drops are weak

3. It has big potential in my opinion since in DS it is almost entirely different mechanic-wise and in DST it has it's own biome.

17 minutes ago, grm9 said:

there's a threshold for stunning it and you can't stun it even when tanking when playing as an x1 damage character without minions and stun goes onto a 1 minute cd after you stun it so that's pointless in those scenarios

Hmm I didn't know that. I don't generally play with 1x characters (I play Wendy, Wanda and if it counts my main Wurt). So dragonfly ends up hitting my minions or just gets stunned. But again, I still stand by the fact that the boss is not really kiteable because it is faster than you and it has a long attack hitbox, similiar to how you can kill 4 treeguards without getting hit once but somehow a single beefalo manages to hit you.

22 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so? someone could be bad and do a speedrun anyway, that run isn't a WR and iirc there never was a warly WR run

 

23 minutes ago, grm9 said:

people often tank during speed runs because they can spend most of their hp with no consequences because the run'll still count even if you'll die but if you're going to continue that world, you'll need to spend time on getting revived, end up with the world regenerating because of the count down or spend time on getting all the hp back if you spent some of it but didn't die, so some speed run strats don't apply to playing normally

Literally not my point. I said that generally speedrunning as Warly would require you to kite, if it was a certainly kiteable boss not mattering Warly or Wolfgang, you would not require any healing food. If there was a treeguard speedrun the speedrunner wouldn't require 4 trail mix and 4 cupcakes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MhBirRb0gA)

 

27 minutes ago, grm9 said:

??

how's many people liking doing the fight that way arguable? are you going to argue that they don't exist or lie about that and do things that they don't like for no reason? how's amount of times you fight it per world related to this?

26 minutes ago, grm9 said:

sorry lol the page got bugged gonna send this and refresh the page

 

27 minutes ago, grm9 said:

???

how's many people liking doing the fight that way arguable? are you going to argue that they don't exist or lie about that and do things that they don't like for no reason? how's amount of times you fight it per world related to this?

I never said people don't fight it more than once. I myself fight it multiple times too. It is just that there's literally almost no use fighting it more than once, other than fun which is not an argument point! Just like how you had to fight crab king and it was considered to be the worst boss in the game to fight but you just had to fight it for celestial champion, then it got reworked. Some people found it fun some people didn't, but they reworked it not because people had fun or not but the fight was problematic. It doesn't really apply for dragonfly since it is not a hard boss and it is not necesary to kill it to progress in the game, but nevertheless it is outshadowed. 

 

31 minutes ago, grm9 said:

read the message again, what you said didn't make any sense at all, i'm telling you that you can't get all the armor and healing that you need for until next lavae phase in 20 seconds, so you'll need to spend additional time before the fight to get armor and healing if you tank unlike if you kite, you're not even supposed to kite more in comparison to 1 or 2 attacks when lavaes're alive because you'd want to kill them before getting back to attacking dfly again

read the message again. I did not say abandon the fight then get resources during that 20 second period. I said if you are using walls you will need less resources to fight it, and 20 second waiting gap shows that both cheesing and not cheesing it shows that dragonfly's time might have come for a rework.

33 minutes ago, grm9 said:

a lot (lava ponds that require you to go to dfly and nothing else because the point of the furnace's that it constantly heats you up and doesn't require anything after you place it except just getting close enough to it), gem trees require wasting time on sailing and require around a year or 2 to get fruits out of them for the 1st time iirc so that's simply nonsensical, idk what's the issue with multiplying scales through green gems

1. Lava pools heat up the thermal stone more than the furnace, one of the reasons why I only build one furnace and set base in dragonfly desert. (So you are not killing dragonfly because furnace is OP or anything, you do it because furnace is useful and after killing dragonfly once you don't have to do it again)

2. Dragonfly drops are not enough to help you in any way, you will go to ruins eventually or not and you will have enough gems for any item you want. (So you are not killing dragonfly because the gem drops are super useful or anything)

3. Gem trees may not be that good but Gloomthorns are amazing, which will result you finding surprising seeds for gem trees.

4. There's no issue in duplicating scales, the issue is that scales are basically pointless

a. Scaled chests are arguably a bad storage unit, the reason being there are infinite chests now and the normal chests are way easier to make with little to no difference (altough as a Wanda player I use scaled chests to mark my rifwatches)

b. Scaled floorings are for decorative or duplicative purposes, so that's good if you like how they look but it doesn't really help how scales are useless

c. Scaled armor is straight up bad.

 

 

Please let me remind you again that just because you find fighting dragonfly without cheesing it is fun doesn't mean that the boss is weak in general. Cheesing or not cheesing it is up to you, but many people cheese it (and many don't) and they don't even find it as cheesing it! (Other people commented stuff like this under the post) and it is not useful to kill it more than once since it is not a necessity to even kill it ONCE and the boss has an amazing potential to be better than it is.

 

Also when you say "what you said doesn't make no sense" can you actually point out what you didn't understand? Don't take this with salt please I am geniunely asking 

[grm9]

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

I will still sit by the opinion that dragonfly is not really kiteable since it is faster than you

you're supposed to be in it's attack range by the time it's attack cd'll end to make it do a stationary attack to dodge it instead of flying, you can't dodge flying without at least a 50% speed boost iirc but you can dodge stationary without speed boosts

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

it is faster than you

you're supposed to make it not move during the attack to dodge it

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

if it was a certainly kiteable boss

it's

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Literally not my point. I said that generally speedrunning as Warly would require you to kite, if it was a certainly kiteable boss not mattering Warly or Wolfgang, you would not require any healing food. If there was a treeguard speedrun the speedrunner wouldn't require 4 trail mix and 4 cupcakes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MhBirRb0gA)

they could simply be bad at the game if they literally wasted time on getting resources for tanking a boss even though kiting'd be faster

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

other than fun which is not an argument point!

why?

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

I said if you are using walls you will need less resources to fight it

misinformation

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

20 second waiting gap shows that both cheesing and not cheesing it shows that dragonfly's time might have come for a rework

???

you literally only wait for 20 seconds if you decide to do that, that's like complaining that the boss sucks and's extremely boring because you locked it in place away from it's arena to disable it's AI and ended up just holding F

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

1. Lava pools heat up the thermal stone more than the furnace

you can't move them

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

(So you are not killing dragonfly because furnace is OP or anything, you do it because furnace is useful and after killing dragonfly once you don't have to do it again)

i kill it because it's fun, i don't use furnace nor lava pools because i don't make bases

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

2. Dragonfly drops are not enough to help you in any way, you will go to ruins eventually or not and you will have enough gems for any item you want. (So you are not killing dragonfly because the gem drops are super useful or anything)

people kill it for gems for iridescent gem when playing as wilson, CK and in case they won't get enough gems that they want from ruins

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

3. Gem trees may not be that good but Gloomthorns are amazing, which will result you finding surprising seeds for gem trees

both aren't worth the time and require a year or 2 to get fruits from iirc

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

a. Scaled chests are arguably a bad storage unit, the reason being there are infinite chests now and the normal chests are way easier to make with little to no difference (altough as a Wanda player I use scaled chests to mark my rifwatches)

they were bad even before chests with infinite stack sizes started existing and you can make them get infinite stack sizes too

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

b. Scaled floorings are for decorative or duplicative purposes, so that's good if you like how they look but it doesn't really help how scales are useless

iirc they make fires spread slower but that rarely ends up doing anything

44 minutes ago, douan33 said:

the boss has an amazing potential to be better than it is

what specifically do you think should get changed?

[douan33]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

what specifically do you think should get changed?

The boss has an amazing potential, but at the very least we can get more scale crafts even if it is decoration like new turfs. Since it is a fire boss maybe we can make new muhsroomlight stuff with scales. 

Maybe Willow can get a new craft with it? Scale is basically dragonfly's skin, and Willow has only 2 character spesific crafts. Some scale crafts can maybe add Bernie some upgrades (similiar to Merm King. I know her skill tree is done though...). 

Also if we have insulation pack maybe we can have a scale pack? It would make cooked items (like roasted tomatos, roasted seeds etc. [would be a buff to wormwood and warly i know]) lose it's freshness slower but it would make other food rot faster similiar to the summer season. Or maybe a new chester made with scales

For the fight, I think her normal form can be buffed since you probably won't even see her enraged form if you know what you're doing. Not a damage buff but maybe different attacks. Mike23 added some ideas maybe the boss makes a spin attack in a big circle so maybe the walls won't be that safe anymore.

Maybe heat would make dragonfly stronger, so intead of just summoning laraves there could be other animations and passives involving lava ponds trying to heal herself.

Also I always wanted houndius shootius to be stronger since switching to winona is a thing. Maybe you can upgrade it with scales.

As long as they make it so that it is not overshadowed by almost everyboss in the game. They could maybe add a new lunar version to it like bearger and deerclops so that they could add a single new item to the game (like polar bearger bin) and we would need to farm scales from it to craft the new item (considering 

 

[Guille6785]

5 hours ago, douan33 said:

ideally as Warly you do not want to get hit in a speedrun since you won't leave much time for healing food to cook. But the guy kept getting hit multiple times, why?

because he sucks

[AliceShiki]

I don't think I would be against stuff like a Lunar version of Dragonfly or improving the drops of Dragonfly, but I also don't find either of those things necessary.

I'm not sure I would like stuff that made the normal phase harder though. Like... It makes cheese the Dragonfly harder for those that want to cheese it, and for the people who actually like fighting Larvae and Enraged Mode, having a tough normal mode means we never get a downtime period where it's safe to heal without worries.

Also, when considering Dfly's HP, it's quite possible for the fight to stretch into the night if you're soloing it, and I'd rather not have to deal with a mechanically complex normal phase in the middle of the night.

So... I dunno, I don't feel like I would like a mechanical rework of Dfly at all... A Lunar version being added or stuff like better drops could be fun though, even if I personally think her drops are fine as is.

[gaymime]

On 8/6/2024 at 12:28 PM, douan33 said:

I think there's a difference between you and me when we say "kiteable" in my first reply to you I said "not really kiteable". Good for you if you can take no hits from dragonfly with laraves around too, I really find it amazing. Although I will still sit by the opinion that dragonfly is not really kiteable since it is faster than you, there's lots of larvae during the fight, and since it is generally a good idea to kill it before the first winter you probably won't have any speed buffs equipped. Also let me add that this post is not about if you can kill dragonfly with walls or not, both is doable and each technique is fun for different people.

1. It is about how dragonfly loses it's purpose after the first fight

2. The drops are weak

3. It has big potential in my opinion since in DS it is almost entirely different mechanic-wise and in DST it has it's own biome.

Hmm I didn't know that. I don't generally play with 1x characters (I play Wendy, Wanda and if it counts my main Wurt). So dragonfly ends up hitting my minions or just gets stunned. But again, I still stand by the fact that the boss is not really kiteable because it is faster than you and it has a long attack hitbox, similiar to how you can kill 4 treeguards without getting hit once but somehow a single beefalo manages to hit you.

 

Literally not my point. I said that generally speedrunning as Warly would require you to kite, if it was a certainly kiteable boss not mattering Warly or Wolfgang, you would not require any healing food. If there was a treeguard speedrun the speedrunner wouldn't require 4 trail mix and 4 cupcakes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MhBirRb0gA)

 

 

I never said people don't fight it more than once. I myself fight it multiple times too. It is just that there's literally almost no use fighting it more than once, other than fun which is not an argument point! Just like how you had to fight crab king and it was considered to be the worst boss in the game to fight but you just had to fight it for celestial champion, then it got reworked. Some people found it fun some people didn't, but they reworked it not because people had fun or not but the fight was problematic. It doesn't really apply for dragonfly since it is not a hard boss and it is not necesary to kill it to progress in the game, but nevertheless it is outshadowed. 

 

read the message again. I did not say abandon the fight then get resources during that 20 second period. I said if you are using walls you will need less resources to fight it, and 20 second waiting gap shows that both cheesing and not cheesing it shows that dragonfly's time might have come for a rework.

1. Lava pools heat up the thermal stone more than the furnace, one of the reasons why I only build one furnace and set base in dragonfly desert. (So you are not killing dragonfly because furnace is OP or anything, you do it because furnace is useful and after killing dragonfly once you don't have to do it again)

2. Dragonfly drops are not enough to help you in any way, you will go to ruins eventually or not and you will have enough gems for any item you want. (So you are not killing dragonfly because the gem drops are super useful or anything)

3. Gem trees may not be that good but Gloomthorns are amazing, which will result you finding surprising seeds for gem trees.

4. There's no issue in duplicating scales, the issue is that scales are basically pointless

a. Scaled chests are arguably a bad storage unit, the reason being there are infinite chests now and the normal chests are way easier to make with little to no difference (altough as a Wanda player I use scaled chests to mark my rifwatches)

b. Scaled floorings are for decorative or duplicative purposes, so that's good if you like how they look but it doesn't really help how scales are useless

c. Scaled armor is straight up bad.

 

 

Please let me remind you again that just because you find fighting dragonfly without cheesing it is fun doesn't mean that the boss is weak in general. Cheesing or not cheesing it is up to you, but many people cheese it (and many don't) and they don't even find it as cheesing it! (Other people commented stuff like this under the post) and it is not useful to kill it more than once since it is not a necessity to even kill it ONCE and the boss has an amazing potential to be better than it is.

 

Also when you say "what you said doesn't make no sense" can you actually point out what you didn't understand? Don't take this with salt please I am geniunely asking 

jeez, this comment covers all the problems i have with dfly plus several i didnt actually consider before

[douan33]

On 8/6/2024 at 10:44 PM, AliceShiki said:

even if I personally think her drops are fine as is.

Really? I really wonder what do you like about it. I personally like the furnace like everyone but that's it. Gems are useful too, but I do not carry my gems to the ruins, I find them in the ruins which doesn't make it useful to me personally

[AliceShiki]

28 minutes ago, douan33 said:

Really? I really wonder what do you like about it. I personally like the furnace like everyone but that's it. Gems are useful too, but I do not carry my gems to the ruins, I find them in the ruins which doesn't make it useful to me personally

I'm not particularly good at the game and my friends are even worse, so Ruins isn't something we do particularly early, if at all.

Getting a bunch of gems from a boss we can kill in the overworld map is very convenient.

The value of Dragonfly obviously drops the better you become at the game though.

That said, I think she might be valuable on pubs too, like... I never played on pubs myself, but I imagine someone might rush ruins early and not share all the gems, so other players might feel gem starved without Dfly or doing AFW?

[douan33]

19 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

I'm not particularly good at the game and my friends are even worse, so Ruins isn't something we do particularly early, if at all.

Getting a bunch of gems from a boss we can kill in the overworld map is very convenient.

The value of Dragonfly obviously drops the better you become at the game though.

That said, I think she might be valuable on pubs too, like... I never played on pubs myself, but I imagine someone might rush ruins early and not share all the gems, so other players might feel gem starved without Dfly or doing AFW?

But gems being valuable doesn't mean anything if you do not visit the ruins. Yellow, green, and orange gems are only in altar's crafting recipes. Blue gems do not have a good use, and red gems are only good if you want more furnaces in a world where you do not go to ruins. Not really mentioning purple gems because you only need a lot of it when you have a Wanda on your team

Edit: I forgot life giving amulets, but killing dragonfly for amulets is not a good way to farm red gems

[AliceShiki]

1 hour ago, douan33 said:

But gems being valuable doesn't mean anything if you do not visit the ruins. Yellow, green, and orange gems are only in altar's crafting recipes. Blue gems do not have a good use, and red gems are only good if you want more furnaces in a world where you do not go to ruins. Not really mentioning purple gems because you only need a lot of it when you have a Wanda on your team

Edit: I forgot life giving amulets, but killing dragonfly for amulets is not a good way to farm red gems

Blue can be useful in making the chilling amulet for Summer, which is neat when you only have one Eyebrella for the team.

Also, Ice Staves can be nice too.

But yeah, Yellow/Green/Orange gems don't have much use for us for the most part. Especially since neither me nor my friends ever touched Crab King.

So uhn... Just different perspective, I guess? Those rewards aren't suuuuuper amazing, but they're fine enough as far as I care? I wouldn't be against a buff in the rewards, but I'm happy enough with them as is. That's basically how I feel about them.

I can understand that people who have other reliable methods of getting gems won't care much about Dfly drops though... It's just that I never really have a meaningful stock of any gems whatsoever, so I like getting some from Dfly.

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

Blue can be useful in making the chilling amulet for Summer, which is neat when you only have one Eyebrella for the team.

i am not saying your playstyle isn't valid but personally i have eaten ice/eggnog as a overheating prevention tool way more than i have used chilled amulet and have used the fish method about as much with better use because i could keep my backpack. chilled amulet really isn't worth giving up the armour/backpack slot for in most cases when it is free. actually making one seems.... uh, uneconomical

[arubaro]

20 hours ago, gaymime said:

i am not saying your playstyle isn't valid but personally i have eaten ice/eggnog as a overheating prevention tool way more than i have used chilled amulet and have used the fish method about as much with better use because i could keep my backpack. chilled amulet really isn't worth giving up the armour/backpack slot for in most cases when it is free. actually making one seems.... uh, uneconomical

But you dont sacrifice the body slot... you simply equip during few seconds it when you over heat

A lot of people clain that item isnt worth when actually is a pretty cheap good item against overheating. Moosegoose fan is better because has the same cooling perk while can extinguish fires tho

[gaymime]

48 minutes ago, arubaro said:

But you dont sacrifice the body slot... you simply equip during few seconds it when you over heat

A lot of people clain that item isnt worth when actually is a pretty cheap good item against overheating. Moosegoose fan is better because has the same cooling perk while can extinguish fires tho

oh, i do like lucky fan(the event ver of the luxury fan that can also chop toad trees)! i must confess i only used luxury fan in solo though, i really ought to use it more often. i have oodles of feathers, haha

[HellHeater]

On 8/4/2024 at 11:32 AM, Reiko24 said:

To be honest, I think Dragonfly should spawn less lavae, OR they should make them easier to freeze. Freezing kills them, so this would be a nice counter to the Dragonfly.

 

Edit: Less lavae and more attacks? Like the normal form will still have the stomping? This would be fun.

or just make lavae not have ludicrous amount of hp

100 or 200 is more than enough what the hell is 500