How do you feel about health adjustment mods?

[cameron8800]

I can’t help but use mods to adjust for single player because I’m honestly not very good at the game and I have no desire to spend hours grinding materials to deal with siege bosses. How do you feel though?

[DegenerateFurry]

They're mods. Use them if you want to and don't if you don't want to.

That said, I personally don't use health adjustment mods, so I voted no in your poll. I used to, but I've gotten good enough at the game that I don't need to anymore, and using them makes things feel too easy.

The only boss adjustment mod I currently use is one that lets me configure how many unseen hands and woven shadows Fuelweaver summons so that the fight's more manageable for one person. So, I can set it to an amount that still gives me a challenge, but doesn't make me want to rip my hair out. 

[marshyds]

It's game you bought for your own money and 2 l of blood, you decide how you want to play it.

[grm9]

everyone know that you need to kill people that don't play the way you want to play and that's why all cheeses need to get removed from the game

4 hours ago, cameron8800 said:

I have no desire to spend hours grinding materials to deal with siege bosses

you might want to look at some minimal gear strats, obviously they're also often harder but even FW can be done before day 5 so you won't need to grind for an hour

[cropo]

I mean for a lot of people DST kinda stole DSA's development time; if you don't play Hamlet or Shipwrecked you have an RoG with years of content not in the game.


Even if you play the game entirely solo, as you wanted to with Singleplayer, you have to play the "multiplayer" version. Using a mod that lowers the HP back down to singleplayer levels is totally fine for that reason imo. It's also much less of a hassle to deal with crippling durability, it doesn't take double the amount of it to kill a single enemy, the bosses still have multiplayer-designs so their mechanics are challenging for a solo player still.

It's getting harder to justify it though with the characters getting more and more powerful in comparison. Willow being able to just do a quick and dirty ranged blast of 700+ damage makes health adjustment mods completely broken. It's "decent" with DST values, but a Dragonfly with 4000 HP gets absolutely decimated by spamming it a few times even without making a stone-wall box.

It also nerfs, and buffs Webber at the same time. His spiders die much quicker, but you can also zerg-rush the hell out of any enemy in the game that isn't a boss and kill them before they even get a chance to blink in your direction. It also makes Nurse spiders less useful since if the enemy does get an attack off, your spider is 100% going to die.

Some bosses really don't need the health reduction at all on top of that, I tried using one and fought Nightmare Werepig, guess how much HP the mod author thought he should have on default? 2000, 2000 HP! That's deerclops level HP, the hell man?

It also really quickens boss phase transitions to be way too fast. You whack Fuelweaver a few times and he's already summoning his shadow jerks to heal, it really ruins the pace of the fight because he shields himself almost immediately.

So with the direction DST is going, I think it would be best to transition out of using the mod, or at the very least going into the config files of the mod and buffing the HP of each entity on your own so that it's not a strict "half-off" reduction.  I personally wouldn't blink twice if someone put the Giant Tentacle HP down to singleplayer values, those things are annoying to fight.

[NPCMaxwell]

I thought this was about using modded alternatives to original characters who have a different health (e.g. lower), or a disease system that would drain health constantly or healing items so I obviously voted yes.

 

But although I don't use mods that adjust creatures health they are of course valid like all mods.

[Cruvimaster]

4 hours ago, cameron8800 said:

How do you feel though?

I understand those who use it, but I think it's really bad for the learning curve.

Being able to defeat bosses alone gives you absurd independence on any type of server.

However, play your style without worrying about other people's opinions.

[Bumber64]

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I understand those who use it, but I think it's really bad for the learning curve.

Being able to defeat bosses alone gives you absurd independence on any type of server.

However, play your style without worrying about other people's opinions.

If someone's using the mod, chances are they aren't interested in playing on any type of server to begin with.

DST is the only version of DS receiving content and bug fixes, and it's simply not balanced for someone who just wants to play solo. That's without even getting into the power creep of certain characters.

[Cruvimaster]

37 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

If someone's using the mod, chances are they aren't interested in playing on any type of server to begin with.

DST is the only version of DS receiving content and bug fixes, and it's simply not balanced for someone who just wants to play solo. That's without even getting into the power creep of certain characters.

I don't consider leaving a boss with 2k health to be balanced. It's just to make it very easy. That's fine for those who use it, but I don't see the need to defend it. Just use it.

[gaymime]

i approve of them, not only for personal reasons(i have it so solo and together numbers match up) but also because if it makes it easier/smoother/nicer to play a character with their health adjusted then it means the game is overall better to play! i don't begrudge anyone who wants to actually play the game and so approve of mods that facilitate that

[arubaro]

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

i approve of them, not only for personal reasons(i have it so solo and together numbers match up) but also because if it makes it easier/smoother/nicer to play a character with their health adjusted then it means the game is overall better to play! i don't begrudge anyone who wants to actually play the game and so approve of mods that facilitate that

You liking something =! Better

[gaymime]

2 minutes ago, arubaro said:

You liking something =! Better

agreed ^^ if you like it then more power to ya!

[Bumber64]

15 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I don't consider leaving a boss with 2k health to be balanced. It's just to make it very easy. That's fine for those who use it, but I don't see the need to defend it. Just use it.

That's why such mods generally have balance options. Nightmare Werepig would have 5k health if you just halved it (equivalent to 2 players), so that's the actual sensible default, not 2k.

Consider that Dragonfly has 2750 HP in DS, 27500 in DST. That turns battle spears into bug nets. But her loot got improved and there's a stun mechanic, so the solo DST value should be somewhere in between. You'll want to consider if can you actually do 1250 damage in 5 seconds (basically half of her DS health) to even trigger the first stun. In other words, your character needs to be capable of 250 DPS to get that opening (and 300 DPS for the next one after 60 seconds).

Just halving the DST values, she'd have 13750 HP and require 125 DPS to stun (150 DPS after that). She still gets the full 60 seconds of stun immunity. Is that fair? IDK.

And we shouldn't forget that DFly could be killed without even fighting (by using some ashes and a stack of 14 gunpowder) when we talk about making things very easy. That was the state of DS before the power creep. (Again, the loot, but she's got much more health than AFW unmodded.)

Lastly, I want to point out that weapon durability wasn't doubled with enemy health. In DST you're carrying weapons for two people. It's not terrible for soloing normal mobs, but it's a bit silly for bosses.

[Guille6785]

"valid" for what

[cybers2001]

I usually play solo, and the last time I used a health adjust mod was back before celestial portal was a thing. Powercreep has been an ever-present thing, which tends to affect the older bosses most, and Toadstool was the last truly beefy boss we've had.

[Evelo]

I use to use them. Then I got more comfortable with the game. No issue with it if someone uses them.

[abrocator]

I tried it. Killing DF felt cheap. So I stopped that world.

The way I look at it is that all the loot goes to me. Single player raid boss killing may be a grind. But so is killing BQ enough times for six players to all be able to make bundle wraps.

I also like soloing bosses compared to killing them with five players. Even killing FW is easy with five players or something like that if you have at least one player who knows how to fight him/it.

The sweet spot seems to be 2–3. Which is socially awkward if you have more than that number of active players; you can’t just go and kill them with the two people you know well because you deprive everyone else of killing the boss for 20 days or whatever the respawn mechanic is.

I also have no problem with adjusting my tactics in order to “scale down” the fight—those are just tactics. I’ve heard someone say that using bunnies to kill BQ is cheese. I don’t hold that opinion at all.

I’m not good at soloing bosses but thankfully I play Wurt right now in my solo world. The only regular overlord boss that’s hard to kill with merms is Klaus but he’s the easiest of the raid bosses apparently, at least fine enough for me to kill even. (I’ve killed him two times with merms. But it’s so easy for the chaotic fight to get out of hand. It seems to be doable if he only enrages late in the fight. I need to learn how to ice/fire staff the two deers properly but there’s so much on the screen… anyway.)