Add an in game way to change Crab King version

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

The hivemind comes out to defend an extremely messy fight...

The fight isnt messy, what is messy are players blowing their brains when they need to use more than 1 item

[Guille6785]

6 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Why would the speedrunner community get the boss tweaks that they want and the rest of us not get the nerfs we want?

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[Gashzer]

3 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

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?????????????????????????????????¿????? To you too 

[lowercase skye]

6 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Its related to the same people who are part of the speedrunning community.

Do you see anyone here who isnt a part of your community backing you up?

The fastest I have ever beaten Crab King was on day 200. I am not a speedrunner and I find discussion about DST speedrunning to be kinda insufferable, personally. I loved old Crab King and would love to be able to activate the old fight since I find it a lot more of an intense back and forth befitting of the questline (while new Crab King is a much more repeatable, farmable boss, which is also good but fills quite a different role.)

21 hours ago, xhyom said:

This boss was completely redone because absolutely no one liked this crap, there wasn't even a fight in it, a resource dump that was only done as a step to the next boss, seriously there's no reason to spend even 5 minutes to bring back that garbage

This is a downright mean thing to say on a thread expressing an enjoyment of and desire to be able to return to the old fight. Crab King is a lot like everything else in the ocean: many, many, many people enjoy it a lot or are simply unbothered by it, but the echo chamber created in hardcore communities like this one make it seem as if there's only the one opinion of "this thing is garbage and everyone hates it". The reality is that everyone who loved old Crab King did the same thing as all of us who enjoy, say, salt shoals or ocean fishing: we shut up after the 40th argument about how stupid we are and how worthless the content we like is and how it needs to be entirely completely changed so it's not the thing we like anymore. It's not fun to keep defending your right to enjoy a thing that the most vocal members of a community will dogpile onto you to tell you how it's absolute garbage that nobody likes while staring you directly in the face after you just said you like it.

[DegenerateFurry]

Just use the mod, bro. 

7 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Why would the speedrunner community get the boss tweaks that they want and the rest of us not get the nerfs we want?

Would be very unfair of klei to allow you to revert to old crab king without giving us the ancient fuelweaver tweaks that others (including myself) want.

Also, what Gashzer said.
GRM9, if you expect Klei to give you an old version of a boss not many people like as an option, why did you have such an issue with it when I suggested this as a way for them to nerf Fuelweaver without removing the current version? 

[Gashzer]

13 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Just use the mod, bro. 

Also, what Gashzer said.
GRM9, if you expect Klei to give you an old version of a boss not many people like as an option, why did you have such an issue with it when I suggested this as a way for them to nerf Fuelweaver without removing the current version? 

Ty for the translation lad. 

[chirsg]

16 minutes ago, finn from human said:

The fastest I have ever beaten Crab King was on day 200. I am not a speedrunner and I find discussion about DST speedrunning to be kinda insufferable, personally. I loved old Crab King and would love to be able to activate the old fight since I find it a lot more of an intense back and forth befitting of the questline (while new Crab King is a much more repeatable, farmable boss, which is also good but fills quite a different role.)

21 hours ago, xhyom said:

I think there is certainly a place for speedrunning in every single game. But I used to say this even before I got banned from the speedrunning community for not violating any rules within the community, that this game is SUPER ill made for speedrunning. There is way too much variance in world gen for it to be a consistent game. There's far too much that's left to chance to do a "Speedrun"

There are community defined parameters which to the layman, are a little arbitrary. This isn't a game you can really 'complete'

 

The value in speedrunners in this game is to determine sweeping strategies in order to get things done as quickly as possible. I used to play pokemon pvp and I wasn't interested in the story at all, so I loosely followed a speedrunning guide to blow past the story asap in order to get into breeding and team building.

 

Again, there is a place for speedrunners in this game because it's a way to determine the best courses of action for people who are beyond the survival part, and want to play the game for different ends and means, but once more, this game is very badly suited to speedrunning.

Thus, absolutely no concessions should be made to accommodate them, unless they're universal QOL like a native seed generation option

[grm9]

47 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Just use the mod, bro

i've already said why that doesn't work

47 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Also, what Gashzer said

that was also nonsensical because speedrunning's entirely unrelated to that

47 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

GRM9, if you expect Klei to give you an old version of a boss not many people like as an option, why did you have such an issue with it when I suggested this as a way for them to nerf Fuelweaver without removing the current version?

because either you didn't or i don't remember that at this point, i only remember suggestions about changing or reworking the fight without a way to fight current version after that

also, that's entirely unrelated to the thread

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i've already said why that doesn't work

that was also nonsensical because speedrunning's entirely unrelated to that

because either you didn't or i don't remember that at this point, i only remember suggestions about changing or reworking him without a way to fight current version

Its ok this thread gave birth to my moonlight shackle idea for ancient fuelweaver which is a way to nerf him without enforcing a permanent change on the boss for those who enjoy him as he is now.

Word of the day is compromise. 

[-Variant]

I genuinely, absolutely, whole heartedly don't understand the desire for someone to dig their teeth into the slightest idea of someone wanting to opt back into something they prefer or are used to. 

I understand the primal desire or need to express your wants when it comes to changes that entirely revolutionize or change things you like, but this is quite literally a handful of folks wanting to opt back into the previous iteration of the fight without needing mods, something a fair chunk of folks can't even use.

This isn't something akin to the removal or change or alteration of anything that heavily affects the game in every direction, like say, the Portal, this is its own isolated bubble.
If we were to get an option to let people opt back into the fight they liked before hand, what would that effect for the people who like the new one?
I can't think of anything. CK is his own isolated bubble in the game. Nothing changes outside of this bubble between either version of the fight, aside from maybe bottle/bumper farming at most-?

I, personally, loathed old CK. I was pumped to see they were changing him! But actually trying out the new one made me realize that no, I still don't like the fight personally. It wasn't until then that I started realizing that there were aspects of the old fight that I felt were more appealing now that they're gone. I can't say I like either honestly, but I don't think not liking option A, or B, is enough to warrant treading on someone's toes who does.

This applies to a lot of things... but in this particular instance... why not? Putting dev time aside to restore this for the hypothetical at hand, why not let people opt into an older version if they liked it more?

[Wormboi]

I think the reason why some people dont want a toggle because it would open the flood gates of adding in old content. Like why not give us the option to toggle on dissese, old farms, forge and gorge, ect?

[Well-met]

2 hours ago, Wormboi said:

I think the reason why some people dont want a toggle because it would open the flood gates of adding in old content. Like why not give us the option to toggle on dissese, old farms, forge and gorge, ect?

there's nothing wrong with those ideas? DS is well known for its generous world gen options.

[Wormboi]

Just now, Well-met said:

there's nothing wrong with those ideas? DS is well known for its generous world gen options.

Klei would just spend more time adding toggles for old stuff rather than like new stuff.

[Well-met]

2 minutes ago, Wormboi said:

Klei would just spend more time adding toggles for old stuff rather than like new stuff.

disease and old farms are literally still coded in the game, there's next to no effort involved.

Not to mention local hosted forge and gorge has also been a all-time high demand.

[_zwb]

what's the point of a rework if the old system is still available?

[Well-met]

45 minutes ago, _zwb said:

what's the point of a rework if the old system is still available?

to please as many players as possible?

there's not even a balance argument to be made since all the previous iterations of things are more challenging/less effective for players

[Evelo]

4 hours ago, -Variant said:

This isn't something akin to the removal or change or alteration of anything that heavily affects the game in every direction, like say, the Portal, this is its own isolated bubble.
If we were to get an option to let people opt back into the fight they liked before hand, what would that effect for the people who like the new one?
I can't think of anything. CK is his own isolated bubble in the game. Nothing changes outside of this bubble between either version of the fight, aside from maybe bottle/bumper farming at most-?

The portal mention feels directed at me, haha. But well stated nevertheless. Never considered it being so isolated until you mentioned it. Aside from a small amount of developer time, I can understand the perspective now. So thank you for that.

[cloudf]

22 hours ago, grm9 said:

i can do it instead of them if they don't want to

It means another piece of code in their code base they need to actively maintain, after inevitable changes in the future that may break the code.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, cloudf said:

It means another piece of code in their code base they need to actively maintain, after inevitable changes in the future that may break the code

nah they don't change most of old code because that'd break old mods, even some 2013 mods still work

there's still a comment about making a component for clothes' durability instead of using fueled but they still didn't do that, most likely because there already were mods that had clothes with fueled component

[cloudf]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

nah they don't change most of old code because that'd break old mods

I dunno, I used to make a mod that got several thousand downloads. I fixed it after it broke one or two times (and removed it all together years later, it probably had broken again for a long time). And I still have memories about little things broke after an update.

The only point I want to make is, it isn't a zero-effort thing for the developers.

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, cloudf said:

I dunno, I used to make a mod that got several thousand downloads. I fixed it after it broke one or two times (and removed it all together years later, it probably had broken again for a long time). And I still have memories about little things broke after an update.

The only point I want to make is, it isn't a zero-effort thing for the developers.

Tbh the more important question is how do they make it lore-friendly?

What item do they give crab king for his entire fight mechanic to change that makes sense?

You cant just do a terrarium solution to it. Because the terrarium is crossover content that doesnt belong in DST to begin with so its fine that nightmare fuel summons the twins. You dont need any lore reason for that.

[grm9]

30 minutes ago, cloudf said:

I dunno, I used to make a mod that got several thousand downloads. I fixed it after it broke one or two times (and removed it all together years later, it probably had broken again for a long time). And I still have memories about little things broke after an update

depends on what you're changing, e.g. dfly file had no changes since 2020 (could've checked before that too but seems like the repository with DST code only got created during 2020) except scrapbook, stuck detection, small changes like removing some white spaces and adding local variables for components and other stuff that wasn't required for it to keep working the way it was previously