[Poll] On Skilltree Perceptions

[GetNerfedOn]

this genuinely has to be the second to last thing i'll ever post for the next two i need to focus aaaaa

For once though i'll lay my own opinion/experience into the discussion, normally I do not so as to prevent swaying the preceding opinions of any people voting in the poll simply because i want to get it off of my chest, regardless of agreement or disagreement.

Spoiler

As an exchange though i'm going to make it a little funny to access what i have to say to ensure you've voted before you've read it. So go vote first!

Spoiler

Still here? wow thanks a lot i feel honored you'd care about this old fool's opinion. Hopefully you've already voted by now.

Spoiler

Never gonna give you up,

never gonna let you down, 

never gonna run around and 

desert you!

Never gonna make you cry,

never gonna saaay goodbyeee

never gonna teeeell a lieeee

and hurt you!

Spoiler

Here we are.

Frankly a reason why i fell into burnout with DST at around 2020-2023 was my experience of the lack of non character rework content and the repetitiveness of the default content loop. At the time of Wolfgang's rework, barring the great forum dumpster fires that occurred, and despite my efforts to start a Wormwood playthrough in memory of Helicalpuma, the constant similarity of gameplay, especially early game, genuinely left me physically drowsy every time i decided to hop onto DST.

And the character reworks don't exactly change that, because regardless of each character being changed the core gameplay loop remains mostly the same. Sure, there are characters which interfere with it (and i main one of them, Warly) but for the most part it's just: get resources, fight weaker monsters for resources, get more resources, establish resources in base, fight stronger monsters, get specific seasonal gear to invalidate seasons, get strongest possible gear, amass snowball of resources, fight strongest enemies present, repeat ad nauseam. 

And we could have received changes to these fundamental parts of the games that could have worked! For instance, as early as Hamlet, we could have gotten alternate attacks per weapon, such as the spear thrust shown in the earliest hamlet gameplay trailer. We could have gotten even more seasonal content, more challenges and boons, more things to explore, more ways to play the game like RWYS. And though I'm not saying we never did, it's undeniable that most of the content updates focused on the characters instead, which in my view redirected resources from fleshing out base game content itself, therefore leaving it more or less the same loop I grew tired of.

The exception of all things was RWYS which provided me with an enjoyable enough distraction that rewarded me every time i experimented with it, especially since it reworked an old mechanic that i genuinely still engaged with on any character barring Wigfrid simply because i liked dragonfruit and dragonpie.

Sometimes some interesting things like the archives or the moon quay or knobbly trees or moonstorms got added but they haven't been so impactful for me to break out of the default loop to go out of the way for and experience. And since i'm already drowsy and bored well before all the apparent fun that either late-pre-rift or post rift content can provide, I've already stopped playing before reaching those points of the game.

However, post rift content provides sort of a new "early game" loop that each character will ultimately have to deal with in semisimilar fashions given it's a universal change to one of the game's most fundamental mechanics (combat).

What i wanted to see, before any skill trees were implemented, was fleshing out post rift content first. I'd love to have seen how each character, on pre rift stats and without skill trees, would have thrived against increasingly more challenging changes to the base gameplay loop, what with the initial uproar planar mechanics caused. Heck, we could have gotten crumbs of character stuff by the least and it would have been alright in my opinion for so long as rift content was fun enough to engage with on any character,

But since we're still seeing the same focus on characters, still, I can only hope. However, I am proven somewhat wrong by the changes and QOL they've made for the Ocean and for storage like the elastispacers and I certainly do hope for more non skill tree content in a similar vein to that.

On another hand, in terms of community interactions, most discussion is always focused on the characters as a result of changes being focused on the characters. So much so that I (jokingly) feel the rest of the game's content being removed in exchange for certain characters' suggested skill tree changes would be a widely praised change given how many skill tree threads there are.

At this point, when more content for post-rift gameplay inevitably gets added, i'd be willing to wager people are going to wish/suggest/spam that their mains got more buffs on post-rift skill trees than just choosing in between bonus damage for their mains based on affinity, instead of engaging with the content itself and strategizing with it.

 

 

 

anyways! as always, vote freely, and discuss in the comments!

[zhangsheng]

It can only be said that the update of the skill tree has played a role in improving weaker characters. But the scary thing is that the originally powerful characters have become even stronger, and the entire game update is increasingly focused on the abilities of the characters (including the boss). The update of the skill tree even includes content related to quality of life. Some survival related content and factory related content must make way for character updates.
This is a serious imbalance, but it is also a transitional state. I hope the update after completing the skill tree can give us more surprises.

[NPCMaxwell]

In general I'd prefer DST without skilltrees all together because it seems irrational to me how imbalanced skilltrees are. [take Wilson's tree vs literally any other so far existing tree]

In fact I like Wilson's skilltree the MOST because it doesn't feel super unrealistically powerful and combat focused.

 

Spoiler

EDIT: @GetNerfedOn was it really necessary to add THAT EVIL PART to your hidden post spoiler?! Now it's stuck in my brain!!! x)

 

[Sir Noel]

I've said this before but it is clear that they didn't exactly have the full "scope" of how they wanted to handle skill trees, which has caused us to be in the state we are now. Certain trees are just better than others. Some alignment perks remove downsides, while others give you niche things like making more pure horror/brilliance, and then others just go all out on combat with lunar flares or shadow fires, or increased damage to an aligned entity. There is very little cohesion.

I don't hate skill trees, but we rushed too fast into this. The concept is good, but execution has been mixed. We're gearing up for post-rift content, but we don't even know what that will entail or how any of these skill trees will adapt in the future.

[arubaro]

Quote

Skill trees buffed my main

This should also be an option in the unsatisfied choices. Some of us were already happy with the additions from the character refresh and, while skill trees a lot of the perks added arent per se a bad addition, i think that some perks are way too strong in certain areas which i dont enjoy because makes you turn off your brain more often in a game that, unless you look after it, there isnt much daily action

[SapoLover]

I dislike it being unlocked by play time and having all the benefits from the start, other than that, they're good way to give the characters some variety (when the skills are done right and more or less equally viable)

[Swiyss]

First of all, I want them to end skill trees with as much time as needed, but I absolutely don't want a fourth wave of reworks coming to the characters because it steals the fun from adding actual content. For now, skill trees are already a thing, and deciding to stop the trees for a year (for example) just to add more content is probably the worst decision since I know for a fact there's a lot of people waiting for their survivor to get a tree.

I also don't feel "very" satisfied because the skill trees don't cover all the areas that it should've. I'm in the favor of survivors having atleast 1 thing in common going on for all of them in the skill trees, like every character having Area damage or every character being able to do a specific task quicker or something. Just putting a bunch of damage skills won't appeal anyone and it's not that interesting honestly, I'm also not veery satisfied because of the way the points are acquired. Almost no interaction with the world is something ppl have been pointing out since the first skill tree and I think they should focus more in skills being unlocked by interacting with the world more.

[Evelo]

A lot of the skillset traits I believe would have been better to move baseline rather than have a skill tree. Wilson, Wolfgang, and in part Winona, are great skill trees because they are simple and don't dramatically change the character (like Willow, Wigfrid, Woodie, and Wormwood). Willow too weak? Give her a lot of the skills baseline then have the skills boost her numbers or alter something (with the Affinities)

I do not think Skillsets should be seen as character re-refreshes. Yet they seem to be for many.

[Mysterious box]

I'm of the thought that any issues they wanted to fix with characters in their base kits should have been fixed there skill trees should never have been a bandaid for characters and then if they still wanted skill trees it would have been fine to make them unlock after you started up the rifts in a world that way the points not reseting per world or them being too strong for the early game wouldn't have even been a issue while giving a large incentive for people to want to reach the end game.

[Zima Blue]

I like skill trees because some characters reworks were absolutely terrible and they benefitted a lot from skill trees. BUT after many years of getting characters refreshes I was expecting Klei to prioritize other content besides changing characters, I want an update like RWYS but for cooking, I want biomes to feel more richer, I want new NPCS, more bosses and new weapons that aren't swords, I want more decoration bc I'm a megabaser, anything besides characters updates again. I still voted I'm satisfied bc I'm having a lot of fun with skill trees specially bc my main just got one lol But I'd rather Klei focused on other updates besides skill trees

[mkemal23]

Skill trees are good in concept but executed terribly.

• Most of the time, the reason why skill trees feel satisfying at first place is beacuse they "fix" the main problems of characters that should have already been fixed with reworks.
• They cause more powercreep, by the time Maxwell gets his skill tree, other characters are most likely going to feel weak, potentially forcing klei to buff everyone even more.
• You can clearly see how klei made the same mistake they did with Winona rework. They started as bland number tweaks for the skills (Wilson, Wolfgang and Wormwoods first tree) and now they are basically character reworks 2.0.
• Planar content is inconsistent.
• Certain skills Such as plant crafting and Transmutations should have it's own crafting station. They have no gameplay value.
• This one is controversial but the insight point system feels bad. However this is an irreversible thing so no point to talk about it.

[loopuleasa]

Forum people whenever it's time to make a poll:

[reddocc]

atleast this poll has real options not just, do you agree with me or do you agree with me.

[_zwb]

Skill trees are just low effort content farm. The designers know they can't make good biome updates so they come back to character update for money and player engagement, which is very effective but DST is becoming less and less Don't Starve. It feels like an RPG power fantasy game more with each update.

The skill trees aren't even well designed, look at Wormwood skill tree from beta, the community did a much better job than klei. They listened and improved the it which is great, then they destroyed it with insane power creep from Winona&Wurt skill trees... it's the character rework all over again, the later the stronger.

[GetNerfedOn]

2 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

Forum people whenever it's time to make a poll:

Remember the time you flooded the whole pf gener discussion with your own ones about character changes? It was glorious. 

[Cassielu]

I believe that the reason most people like skill trees is that they bring interesting new powers and new gameplay, but I only feel that skill trees are a completely negative limitation in this process. These new powers and gameplay can be much better if they placed in the character's base abilities, or non-character exclusive content.

[GetNerfedOn]

14 hours ago, NPCMaxwell said:

snip

Spoiler

@NPCMaxwell you know the rules and so do i

 

[Jakepeng99]

20 hours ago, NPCMaxwell said:

In fact I like Wilson's skilltree the MOST because it doesn't feel super unrealistically powerful and combat focused.

Yeah, it bothers me when they put combat the main focus on a non-combat character skilltree like Wurts.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Yeah, it bothers me when they put combat the main focus on a non-combat character skilltree like Wurts.

I mean combat was kinda the main focus for Wurt her only exclusive upgrade to merm followers was merm guard followers whose main draw were it's combat perks. She definitely has a lot of non combat based utility but most of that was based around supporting her combat side. Her skill tree more or less simply followed the same pattern.

[SilentConstruct]

I voted that they're imbalanced, but ultimately my biggest gripe with them is that they're just nothing but buffs, and while for some characters that's completely fine (Wilson for example), for others it just feels like excessive powercreep and there's no drawbacks to justify it even remotely.

That, and certain things should be base-kit, I have many problems with Woodie's skill tree because it takes around 5 points of just fixing the character, and then there's overpowered skills thrown in there too, which again, have no drawback and introduce planar long before you need it, and long before a new player would even have the knowledge required to understand what planar even is. Willow's skill tree also requires a few points before you're in a state where the character actually has an upside worth using. And I'm sorry, but good heavens what is up with the damage on her alignment fire skills? I am okay with the abilities, but I am very much *not* okay with the damage numbers I'm seeing here, unless there were to be a price to pay. A permanent drawback in exchange for the ability to cast this spell.

I originally welcomed skill trees with open arms, but after seeing how Klei has been handling them, I honestly wish they were never implemented to begin with. But since they're here to stay, I will state is this; In my opinion, downsides can be used as a means to make a character more unique, when done correctly. And since skill trees are optional, they feel like the perfect way to go about doing something like this, without harming less experienced players so long as the skill explains itself well enough that they understand what they're getting into.