Player feedback isn't backlash

[HowlVoid]

This is just a quick reminder because these comments are so exhausting to read.

If you like a change it's feedback, and if you don't like a change it's backlash?

This is honestly harmful to the whole community feedback process and feels akin to opinion censoring. 

Reminder that everyone plays differently and if you want to see change and the change is made-

It's because you gave a good enough reason. Maybe even a well thought out reason!

It's just that simple. Yes, SOME people can get angry and upset but that shouldn't represent everyone that wants that change. 

Ok, needed to get that off my chest.

have a lovely day

[grm9]

isn't backlash literally just people not liking something?

[HowlVoid]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

isn't backlash literally just people not liking something?

Backlash :

"a strong and adverse reaction by a large number of people, especially to a social or political development."

Backlash is more akin to "outrage".

It implies negative criticism, while constructive feedback is positive criticism.

[Gashzer]

Too many people try to squash other peoples valid feedback and experiences by saying its misinformation or just git gud.

If a DST player is not enjoying the game, even if its 100% the players fault. That is still a valid opinion/feedback to have on the forums.

At the end of the day if that player isnt having fun thats 100% always the devs fault and its worthwhile them hearing about it. 

Related issues of the day: AFW, lots of people have issues with this boss, either with the boss itself or the questline to reach him. So logically it would be nice of Klei to do abit of Qol to AFW, not asking for a full rework but substantial enough QoL.

 

[grm9]

26 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

AFW, lots of people have issues with this boss

26 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Too many people try to squash other peoples valid feedback and experiences by saying its misinformation

that's only me and i only say that when it's misinformation instead of an opinion e.g. "FW's bad because he requires getting weather pains or inventory management" even though he doesn't

26 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

just git gud

that doesn't happen, people usually tell you to cheese or use easy strats, what's the point of asking for the boss to become braindead easy like werepig and other new bosses if you can just use cheese or stuff like brightshade staff to make it that way without ruining other people's fun?

26 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

At the end of the day if that player isnt having fun thats 100% always the devs fault and its worthwhile them hearing about it

no, often it's people having wrong expectations for the game e.g. expecting baby mode dark souls fights in a survival game

[Frosty_Mentos]

12 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Too many people try to squash other peoples valid feedback and experiences by saying its misinformation or just git gud.

If a DST player is not enjoying the game, even if its 100% the players fault. That is still a valid opinion/feedback to have on the forums.

At the end of the day if that player isnt having fun thats 100% always the devs fault and its worthwhile them hearing about it. 

Related issues of the day: AFW, lots of people have issues with this boss, either with the boss itself or the questline to reach him. So logically it would be nice of Klei to do abit of Qol to AFW, not asking for a full rework but substantial enough QoL.

There's prolly a mod for that. A mod for git gud and how to avoid forums for a week. There's prolly a mod for everything in Steam Workshop.

[Mike23Ua]

Here’s my point of view, Klei adds “End-Game” content, they add Lunar Hail Rift Storm  that in its original concept, was actually intended to damage the worlds mobs and possibly even completely “extinct” some of the games species so that during the so called “late-game” they could either get new variations OR end up replaced by something new altogether.

However a very vocal minority of Megabase enjoyers cried this would ruin their “Critter Pens”

Now I could be mistaken on this, but I don’t think DST was ever a game where you were intended to keep Grass Gecko or Koelaphant pens.

Im very specifically mentioning these two mobs because there’s actual in-game Wagstaff related notes that point to the possible “Mutation” or “Behavior changes” for these two particular mobs during Lunar Moonstorms/Hailstorms/Rifts.

Personally I would’ve loved to had seen Lunar Horrors return in full force (we have half eaten Koelaphant corpses now, and late game rift bosses like no-eyed iceclops, or undead Varg) Lunar hail could have rained down, impaling and killing the normal variant of the game worlds mobs, so that they’re corpses could re-animate much like Horror Hounds, Undead Deerclops & Varg already do.

(Wurts Lunar Mutated Merms should’ve been a new hostile threat and not just a straight up Wurt exclusive Buff Too.)

Instead, Klei had to silently can this concept altogether by removing damage to mobs and provide promises of proper “critter den shelters”

But I still feel the undying urge to express the words “End-Game!”

So now I guess the only question left to ask the devs at Klei is what the actual heck is the end game supposed to be?

[GamePlayer42]

forumers arent representative of all experiences

[Wormboi]

15 minutes ago, grm9 said:

This poll only repents the fourms. I feel like if Klei released a poll everywhere asking about FW this number would be higher.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Wormboi said:

This poll only repents the fourms. I feel like if Klei released a poll everywhere asking about FW this number would be higher

i doubt that, considering that people usually register on the forums because of wanting to complain so you'd probably get as many complaints as you can here

[NPCMaxwell]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Here’s my point of view, Klei adds “End-Game” content, they add Lunar Hail Rift Storm  that in its original concept, was actually intended to damage the worlds mobs and possibly even completely “extinct” some of the games species so that during the so called “late-game” they could either get new variations OR end up replaced by something new altogether.

However a very vocal minority of Megabase enjoyers cried this would ruin their “Critter Pens”

Now I could be mistaken on this, but I don’t think DST was ever a game where you were intended to keep Grass Gecko or Koelaphant pens.

Im very specifically mentioning these two mobs because there’s actual in-game Wagstaff related notes that point to the possible “Mutation” or “Behavior changes” for these two particular mobs during Lunar Moonstorms/Hailstorms/Rifts.

Personally I would’ve loved to had seen Lunar Horrors return in full force (we have half eaten Koelaphant corpses now, and late game rift bosses like no-eyed iceclops, or undead Varg) Lunar hail could have rained down, impaling and killing the normal variant of the game worlds mobs, so that they’re corpses could re-animate much like Horror Hounds, Undead Deerclops & Varg already do.

Instead, Klei had to silently can this concept altogether by removing damage to mobs and provide promises of proper “critter den shelters”

But I still feel the undying urge to express the words “End-Game!”

So now I guess the only question left to ask the devs at Klei is what the actual heck is the end game supposed to be?

I haven't come this far in my game, but actually wouldn't the purpose of living in a hostile world be that life does find more and more struggles? And for the critter pens..........wouldn't it be actually fun to relax for a while with your megabase, enjoy your cute critters happily living in pens..............and then be reminded you live in the DS world by seeing everything be destroyed? [For me it would.] Because it would motivate players to rethink their bases. [Or maybe place the dens in a save distance from the home megabases. Which would actually also sound like a nice idea for me. So you would basically build small "villages" where animals can be kept in dens and that can be "sacrificed" to the mutations. Like those wastelands in other games where mutations roam the streets and that are basically being abandoned. Now I have a funny scenario in mind I would love to happen IF I ever play DST long enough to come to this point.....I hope someone puts something like this back into the game even when it's just a mod] [something similar to the plague mod maybe that brought back the disease system?]

[Mike23Ua]

43 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

I haven't come this far in my game, but actually wouldn't the purpose of living in a hostile world be that life does find more and more struggles? And for the critter pens..........wouldn't it be actually fun to relax for a while with your megabase, enjoy your cute critters happily living in pens..............and then be reminded you live in the DS world by seeing everything be destroyed? [For me it would.] Because it would motivate players to rethink their bases. [Or maybe place the dens in a save distance from the home megabases. Which would actually also sound like a nice idea for me. So you would basically build small "villages" where animals can be kept in dens and that can be "sacrificed" to the mutations. Like those wastelands in other games where mutations roam the streets and that are basically being abandoned. Now I have a funny scenario in mind I would love to happen IF I ever play DST long enough to come to this point.....I hope someone puts something like this back into the game even when it's just a mod] [something similar to the plague mod maybe that brought back the disease system?]

You can toggle on rifts in world Gen settings, even in worlds you’ve already created.

You can EVEN change the game mode your playing in, even in worlds you’ve already started as “Survival”

I feel like Klei devs are often so busy coming up with new content new content new content that they often forget about some of what they already offer to their players.

Which is why when they make a change such as “X resource now regrows in survival mode” I tend to get a little frustrated, the entire point and purpose of “Endless” was so that resources that did not regrow on survival Mode Would Regrow on Endless Mode.

And Klei is trying so hard to cater to this already established mega-base mindset that there’s very little wiggle room for any other playstyles.

But again I feel I should point out that as of one of Klei’s previous QoL updates you can now at any time you desire, exit your world.. completely change game modes and relaunch that same world, you can EVEN toggle back on what was once limited time only year of animal events or the Midsummers Cawnival!

The only limited time events you CANT toggle back on are Gorge/Forge stuff.

Rift content even pops up an onscreen warning prior to activating it “warning the rules of your world are about to be drastically changed are you sure you wish to continue?”

Yet despite all this, despite having alternate modes for slow/faster regrowth timers you can now toggle between at any given time you desire, despite having a huge notification saying “hey don’t pass this point if you actually want to keep you pet den cages intact” we still have to carefully tip toe around the pool so we don’t fall in & drowned.

[NPCMaxwell]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You can toggle on rifts in world Gen settings, even in worlds you’ve already created.

You can EVEN change the game mode your playing in, even in worlds you’ve already started as “Survival”

I feel like Klei devs are often so busy coming up with new content new content new content that they often forget about some of what they already offer to their players.

Which is why when they make a change such as “X resource now regrows in survival mode” I tend to get a little frustrated, the entire point and purpose of “Endless” was so that resources that did not regrow on survival Mode Would Regrow on Endless Mode.

And Klei is trying so hard to cater to this already established mega-base mindset that there’s very little wiggle room for any other playstyles.

But again I feel I should point out that as of one of Klei’s previous QoL updates you can now at any time you desire, exit your world.. completely change game modes and relaunch that same world, you can EVEN toggle back on what was once limited time only year of animal events or the Midsummers Cawnival!

The only limited time events you CANT toggle back on are Gorge/Forge stuff.

Rift content even pops up an onscreen warning prior to activating it “warning the rules of your world are about to be drastically changed are you sure you wish to continue?”

Yet despite all this, despite having alternate modes for slow/faster regrowth timers you can now toggle between at any given time you desire, despite having a huge notification saying “hey don’t pass this point if you actually want to keep you pet den cages intact” we still have to carefully tip toe around the pool so we don’t fall in & drowned.

So basically megaplayers could simply NOT activate rifts and keep their pets intact? : ( Then I wonder why they didn't. Unless you play in a server where megabasers and those who want to have a reason to combat all the time in the same place.

[Primalflower]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

]

fair few people want it, 38% isnt an insignificant portion of votes, it's more than 1/3 - forums arent a representative sample of playerbase 100% of the time - and this is a poll from uncompromising mode discord which is going to be a very "i-like-old-thing-better" space

[Swiyss]

21 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

]

fair few people want it, 38% isnt an insignificant portion of votes, it's more than 1/3 - forums arent a representative sample of playerbase 100% of the time - and this is a poll from uncompromising mode discord which is going to be a very "i-like-old-thing-better" space

But why tho? Why change a boss that's beatable?

His healing is easily countered by bramble husks, willow spell, wigfrid dash, brightshade staff, weather pains etc.. Nerfing it would make literally 0 sense.

And if the problem is the fact that you need to be insane to hit the hands, LITERALLY you can equip a purple amulet and 1 use of a bsstaff will deal with it. If you can't beat cc solo just bring friends OR enable rifts in the setting there's no shame in doing that until you ACTUALLY can solo cc to get the staff.

All arguments about afw rework/remake/significant changes have 0 base in the actual game. There is 0 reason to change fuelweaver. There's nothing frustrating with it.

It's probably the best fight in the game.

[Primalflower]

1 minute ago, Swiyss said:

But why tho? Why change a boss that's beatable?

His healing is easily countered by bramble husks, willow spell, wigfrid dash, brightshade staff, weather pains etc.. Nerfing it would make literally 0 sense.

And if the problem is the fact that you need to be insane to hit the hands, LITERALLY you can equip a purple amulet and 1 use of a bsstaff will deal with it. If you can't beat cc solo just bring friends OR enable rifts in the setting there's no shame in doing that until you ACTUALLY can solo cc.

you can describe as many strategies or ways to deal with him as you want but the truth is its just not a fun fight for a lot of people

its not like       enjoyable

[Swiyss]

5 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

you can describe as many strategies or ways to deal with him as you want but the truth is its just not a fun fight for a lot of people

its not like       enjoyable

you CANNOT say "it's not enjoyable hehe" without further explaining it WHY.

You're LITERALLY asking for a change without any reason. Only the one being "I hate it uhh". that's selfish.

Think about those who like it now. If you were in my shoes and loved the fight. Why the F do you want it changed?

[Primalflower]

3 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

you CANNOT say "it's not enjoyable hehe" without further explaining it WHY.

You're LITERALLY asking for a change without any reason. Only the one being "I hate it uhh". that's selfish.

Think about those who like it now. If you were in my shoes and loved the fight. Why the F do you want it changed?

i don't know how you expect me to even think about engaging with this topic if you talk to me like this my friend

[Swiyss]

6 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

i don't know how you expect me to engage with this topic if you talk to me like this my friend

Because you're asking to change one of the best fights in the game imo for everyone just because you don't like it? I'm sure there are fights you do enjoy, what if I put pressure to change that just because I hate one specific thing about it, and then Klei decides to completely overhaul the thing you once enjoyed because of it.

[HowlVoid]

I think fuel weaver is the kind of boss that would benefit from an "alternative" boss fight.

A completely silly example to convey my point:

Like doing something in the ruins sends a beam that changes the behavior of fw to be a different type of battle.

^disregard the method itd only an example

This allows for a legacy battle and a "new" battle for those who want extra help/engagement.

Additional example:

Maybe causing a small temporary fluctuation of enlightenment to occur in FW's arena. A "corrupted" fw that's, again, just a reason to allow for a separate battle from a legacy one.

[Swiyss]

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I think fuel weaver is the kind of boss that would benefit from an "alternative" boss fight.

A completely silly example to convey my point:

Like doing something in the ruins sends a beam that changes the behavior of fw to be a different type of battle.

^disregard the method itd only an example

This allows for a legacy battle and a "new" battle for those who want extra help/engagement.

Additional example:

Maybe causing a small temporary fluctuation of enlightenment to occur in FW's arena. A "corrupted" fw that's, again, just a reason to allow for a separate battle from a legacy one.

I want to understand why do you want that. Is the current battle bad? Do you dislike what the devs did with his fight? (it's good since release)

What do you exactly mean by extra help or extra engagement? What would that look like?

I would definitely agree with a mechanic that makes the fuelweaver fight easier (aside from bs gear already making it very easy).

Honestly, I would really like if the survivors got a visual effect from the enlightened crown that activated only when fighting shadow enemies and vice versa.

Klei could DEFINITELY fix Crown gestalts not following targets.

[HowlVoid]

14 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I want to understand why do you want that. Is the current battle bad? Do you dislike what the devs did with his fight? (it's good since release)

What do you exactly mean by extra help or extra engagement? What would that look like?

I would definitely agree with a mechanic that makes the fuelweaver fight easier (aside from bs gear already making it very easy).

Honestly, I would really like if the survivors got a visual effect from the enlightened crown that activated only when fighting shadow enemies and vice versa.

Klei could DEFINITELY fix Crown gestalts not following targets.

It would mean an essentially easier fight. All reworks, in the end, result in an easier fight. 

If the alternative "easier" fight was a method unlocked after killing CC it would ensure people who really just can't win, would have a chance to do so. All this while keeping the integrity of the original fight and not removing it from those who enjoy it. 

It doesn't HAVE to be until you kill CC but if it was up to me I would put it there. It would also double as an easier way to reset the ruins as an byproduct for "endgame". 

Edit: by more engagement I mean how the CK and AG fights had more mechanics in exchange for a lower skill ceiling.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Swiyss said:

you CANNOT say "it's not enjoyable hehe" without further explaining it WHY.

You're LITERALLY asking for a change without any reason. Only the one being "I hate it uhh". that's selfish.

Think about those who like it now. If you were in my shoes and loved the fight. Why the F do you want it changed?

Now you know how it feels for people like my self who actually enjoyed disease, or the default implementations of Pirate Raids, or Classic Solo DS versions and ways of dealing with Wildfires.

Instead Klei’s been making all these changes to make my experience and what I enjoy worse for me by making it easier or requiring not much care or thought.

(im not going to care if I become Wonkey because instead of being cursed to play as him until I actively attempt to remove curse I can now just Die and ditch the trinkets.. so much for being a brutal curse right? We all know how meaningless dying is in DST… I really enjoyed being STUCK as Monkee until I could properly earn my way out of it)

Same thing with Wildfires, they had been exactly as they were since inception, did we really need all these additional ways of dealing with them like Watering Cans, things wilting instead of burning away to ashes, or resources you once had to protect because they could’ve been viewed as rare and precious- now naturally regrowing over time so you can just laugh as they go up in flames knowing eh whatever they’ll respawn?

The content I actually enjoy can be simplified, changed or in extreme cases completely removed from the game, meanwhile the content I struggle with or do not find enjoyable can’t be made more accessible and enjoyable?

Somethin don’t sound right about that..

And no I’ve actually never made it to FuelWeaver, and I don’t even know how to properly spawn it in.. but that may be a clue In of itself that Klei needs to change some things about it?

Maybe perhaps for example when they get the Key from Ancient Guardian that it reveals the area on the map you need to go to perhaps the item can glow and pulse as you get closer to the Ancient Gateway and perhaps there can be in-game quotes or visual cues to help the player to learn they need to fully assemble these “bones” in this area to engage the fight?

And that’s just the SUMMON part, I’m not even going to discuss how much Klei has had to make tweaks to this one fight and weapons intended for this one fight to make it more accessible to controller users.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Now you know how it feels for people like my self who actually enjoyed disease, or the default implementations of Pirate Raids, or Classic Solo DS versions and ways of dealing with Wildfires.

Instead Klei’s been making all these changes to make my experience and what I enjoy worse for me by making it easier or requiring not much care or thought.

(im not going to care if I become Wonkey because instead of being cursed to play as him until I actively attempt to remove curse I can now just Die and ditch the trinkets.. so much for being a brutal curse right? We all know how meaningless dying is in DST… I really enjoyed being STUCK as Monkee until I could properly earn my way out of it)

Same thing with Wildfires, they had been exactly as they were since inception, did we really need all these additional ways of dealing with them like Watering Cans, things wilting instead of burning away to ashes, or resources you once had to protect because they could’ve been viewed as rare and precious- now naturally regrowing over time so you can just laugh as they go up in flames knowing eh whatever they’ll respawn?

The content I actually enjoy can be simplified, changed or in extreme classes completely removed from the game, meanwhile the content I struggle with or do not find enjoyable can’t be made more accessible and enjoyable?

Somethin don’t sound right about that..

And no I’ve actually never made it to FuelWeaver, and I don’t even know how to properly spawn it in.. but that may be a clue In of itself that Klei needs to change some things about it?

Maybe perhaps for example when they get the Key from Ancient Guardian that it reveals the area on the map you need to go to perhaps the item can glow and pulse as you get closer to the Ancient Gateway and perhaps there can be in-game quotes or visual cues to help the player to learn they need to fully assemble these “bones” in this area to engage the fight?

And that’s just the SUMMON part, I’m not even going to discuss how much Klei has had to make tweaks to this one fight and weapons intended for this one fight to make it more accessible to controller users.

I do agree with you.. that maybe we need to put some life giving amulets in the chests of the atrium, or maybe another way to revive the player close by, so they can take their items and try again.

I also do agree that the way to the fuelweaver shouldn't be so obscure (even if that's DST's identity).

Now in response to your frustration.. Unfortunately I'm in this bag too, but it's not THAT big of a deal, it's just boring to see the game going towards the direction of some people but ignoring others. At most the best we can do is give up on deep requests that may take the game into a whole different spectrum, like asking for a multiplayer Nexus Hub casual style of meeting like in fantasy star online.

But.. we have to be true to what happened to dst. The game always had this uncompromising feel, and some really angry mod developers made the "uncompromising mode". That almost made Klei unconsciously ignore this so called "elitists" or people that wanted to rule how the game should be played. However, those fruits who fall close to the tree (like me, who is someone who enjoys harder challenges and don't care that much about my base getting burst in flames by giants or exploded by whatever enemy invaded me, but am not ruling how people should play the game) are getting closer and closer to dissapearing and leaving the game as we are being put into the same bag as these "edgy ricks".

The only reason I'm here is because I didn't see much, I only got 900 posts or something. But if all I ask is for X for years, and only get Y, then at some point I will get very frustrated.

And.. the only reason I still ask for a more uncompromising game (just like you do) is because almost every single update that I've seen from this game, from the addition of Krampus and his nerf to the Reign of Giants DLC, has always been cohecive in one direction. To see the game suddently heading south is reeeally weird for me.

I still got this hope, that after skill trees are done, we get to actually see some difficulty and challenges along our journey. Maybe not after skill trees, but after the devs rethink the way the game should be played, cause honestly, I got an idea, just hear me out.

Why not simply.. create a supposed way of playing Don't Starve Together and materialize this into the game with a sorta invisible tutorial. Like, an actual progression cycle OUTSIDE of the survival aspect of the game.

Players are first introduced to the survival mechanics of the game, then when they're used to it, it's time for the player to come back to this progression "program" that the game has. My idea is to make the player atleast intrigued about trying to search for these bosses. Giving them a reason to do it is probably the best way to make them go for it without pushing them to do it. It would still be optional like klei invision it, but with some sparks along the way. Putting "defeat celestial champion" in the skill trees will not intrigue players, I say the best thing is to actually show some gestalts around in full moon, or maybe some lost notes. Something that feels right with the lore of the game and the style of it. Something man IDK I'm not a developer, but a graphic or beautiful biome with a hidden secret, or a secret mural lore of the ancients. The survivor's quotes are one of those things, but if I'm being 1000000% honest, it's not enough even thought I KNOW how hard they work in doing these and how much it adds to the game. The reality is that the regular player will use quotes until they see that it doesn't do much, It's more of a funny thing to have than an actual intriguing and inspiring motivation for the player to try to complete the scrapbook etc.. We need visuals, smoke, signals from the skies, screams, calls, we need these things. On the other hand we got the opposite ones, like the bee queen, or dragonfly, the problem is that they have way too much health for the regular guy who thinks that they can beat it, until they spend 8 marble suits and 40 pierogies only to lose the fight, or get non-impactful drops. SERIOUSLY KLEI, the WALKING CANE is a better drop than most boss drops in this game. If I can suggest something ACTUALLY cool and that the players would actually want, it would be gem weapons or better spells. Seriously, seeing Willow get her spells only by surviving was such a let down, such a missed opportunity, and making it available at day 1 after killing the celestial champion would pretty much make players cheat to get it. I know it is not intended, but the intention is not always what works. If they made willow inscribe a papyrus with embers at full moon to get the spell, or new moon with fuel to get the other one, it would be much better as it wouldn't require such a high requirement (cc killed or fw killed) but still wouldn't be free at day one.

This intended way of playing the game would be their hard uncompromising feel. But.. if the player is already an expert in surviving, it should atleast have some resources to spend to make these hard challenges easy for them.

The more you grind = The easier the boss.
The less you grind, the harder the boss, but the quicker you get to the end-game.

This is basically how the game "works" nowadays, atleast for me. But if this idea is stablished in a stronger way, then maybe people wouldn't be complaining about AFW being hard to find/hard to deal with.

Let's not forget about the multiplayer aspect of the game. It's not their intention, but there needs to be a multiplayer balance. Unless these things are looked at, the game will always be in this position where people come to play, face ONLY the survival aspect of the game, and are obligated to invest time to search for the main progress line, making it boring and most the time people won't even bother reading the wiki for a whole day just to find out there's an enourmous burocracy step to making this yellow toad that drops the most useless stuff ever. Might be funny for you guys, but I think these are some of the things that hold dst down. It's hard to let go of some things but I think we gotta.

If I think about anything else I'll create another topic to be archived.

EDIT: TLDR - dst was hard, then player cried, not hard anymore. now we cry, but we not edgy rick, we just like challenge. + reasons why some people ask for these things in the forums + slight breakdown of why people quit the game and think its not fun. (nothing wrong with the game, just the way it's put together)

Also : there's a world for everyone in this game. This.. I believe.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

enjoyed disease

Me too brotha, mee too. Will forever miss these particles on a berry bush.

[Gameplayer143]

I just don't like AFW because I find his moveset dull for my preferences with him buffing himself rather than attacking me, though that's just my preferences. I prefer boss fights to be based around threatening the player. Though I wouldn't really advocate changing him though, besides making the item swapping less annoying in this game.