[Game Update] - 616404

[roboiviv]

On 6/22/2024 at 3:57 PM, JazzyGames said:

I wouldn’t say I’m completely against sleep immunity but purple gems also boost the HP of guards so if we’re not sleeping them then we’re spending a lot more time killing them. You are not offering a better way of dealing with guards, you’re just removing a singleplayer strat from one of the few combinations of gems that was actually tenable.

Seems like green gems are the way to go now.

Fortunately, you and a lot of other people couldn't stop talking about how "boring" and "lame" using the panflute is. I don't know why people don't complain as much for other uses of it, like on BeeQueen or Dragonfly. But for the new CK fight, that was just updated to be actually good and interactive, we now have it changed back to being obnoxious again. So thanks.
I think Klei is often much better off just doing what they deem right, instead of trying to please some players. They usually hit a good balance with their first iterations.

[JazzyGames]

2 hours ago, roboiviv said:

Fortunately, you and a lot of other people couldn't stop talking about how "boring" and "lame" using the panflute is. I don't know why people don't complain as much for other uses of it, like on BeeQueen or Dragonfly. But for the new CK fight, that was just updated to be actually good and interactive, we now have it changed back to being obnoxious again. So thanks.
I think Klei is often much better off just doing what they deem right, instead of trying to please some players. They usually hit a good balance with their first iterations.

I have been outspoken in my praise of the new fight. I was very clear in my video that I did not endorse sleep immunity for the crab guards unless they planned to offer some alternative method for managing them. Personally, I appreciated having the pan flute available for solo fights. After the previous hotfix I thought the fight was in a great place; the perfect challenge for a midgame boss fight.

If you have any other misconceptions about my views on this, feel free to watch my videos.

[Cyrefy]

2 hours ago, roboiviv said:

a lot of other people couldn't stop talking about how "boring" and "lame" using the panflute is.

So much good feedback out there, and they choose to listen to that, pathetic...

[Roodmas]

1 hour ago, Cyrefy said:

So much good feedback out there, and they choose to listen to that, pathetic...

I think we could give Klei the benefit of the doubt and accept that they have free will, are in fact not controlled by a small number of fans, and do what they believe is best for the game.

But in the end, no matter what, they won't please everyone. If they left the pan flute strat intact, other people would complain that the fight is too easy (you know, the 'think of the veterans' kind of people).

Personally I see the appeal of the purple gem change, because now there really isn't an objectively easiest combination of gems to use. The fight might not be perfect, but now it's something that I actually look forward to in my runs (it's the same as when they reworked Ancient Guardian).

Thanks Klei!

Edited June 23, 2024 by Roodmas

[lenship2]

On 6/22/2024 at 11:26 AM, _zwb said:

Is it just me that Wurt looks weird in that animation

her head is way too big

and winona's catapult is armed with an unfueled generator smh 

[Beetrice]

THEY DID IT!!! THEY NERFED USING ONLY PURPLE GEMS AND SPAMMING PAN FLUTE!!! MY DREAMS HAVE COME TRUE

[Brotid01]

Now the issue i have with this fight right now is how most of the gems instead of adding real "dificulty" or new ways to fight instead just slowdown and extended the fight artificially and not just speaking about the fight itself also the farming behind this fight, making us as the players to spend more time gathering all  the resources need it.

More time consuming ≠ Difficult.

2 hours ago, Roodmas said:

(you know, the 'think of the veterans' kind of people).

This issue is more related to the Tryhard/Toxic community over the veterans (Most of the times the veterans also are toxic but I’m not the one to judge).

I been playing this game since the beta (Not counting the single player) after school when i was a teen with my older brother long long time ago i still firmly believe there's not a "right way to play" and you should never complain how others play, you can have your own opinion of course but never impose and force others to play the same way as you just because is too easy for you or unfair or whatever reason.

If you don't like to swap characters is fine, if you like to spend days decorating bases is fine, if you like rushing is fine, everything is fine as far you don't make miserable the life of others in the process.

In my opinion the flute should be a perfect and valid strat for those who want to do it and if you don't like it you have others gems as well, make this fight as harder as you want, use mods if you need to, add more enemies, make videos showing different ways to play you deserve to have fun as well, but again remember, Don't impose yourself over the others playstyles, everyone deserve to play the way they want, relax, easy, hard doesn’t matter everything should be valid as far you enjoy this game.

And yea is hard to please everybody but in general is better from the old fight and eventually the community are gonna find one way or another to cheese using the most cheapest and dumb tactic ever made if you are trying to nerf things just for the sake of hating how others are playing that's not healthy this is not a competitive game there's no reason to nerf how other players play.

[Mysterious box]

32 minutes ago, Brotid01 said:

Now the issue i have with this fight right now is how most of the gems instead of adding real "dificulty" or new ways to fight instead just slowdown and extended the fight artificially and not just speaking about the fight itself also the farming behind this fight, making us as the players to spend more time gathering all  the resources need it.

More time consuming ≠ Difficult.

This issue is more related to the Tryhard/Toxic community over the veterans (Most of the times the veterans also are toxic but I’m not the one to judge).

I been playing this game since the beta (Not counting the single player) after school when i was a teen with my older brother long long time ago i still firmly believe there's not a "right way to play" and you should never complain how others play, you can have your own opinion of course but never impose and force others to play the same way as you just because is too easy for you or unfair or whatever reason.

If you don't like to swap characters is fine, if you like to spend days decorating bases is fine, if you like rushing is fine, everything is fine as far you don't make miserable the life of others in the process.

In my opinion the flute should be a perfect and valid strat for those who want to do it and if you don't like it you have others gems as well, make this fight as harder as you want, use mods if you need to, add more enemies, make videos showing different ways to play you deserve to have fun as well, but again remember, Don't impose yourself over the others playstyles, everyone deserve to play the way they want, relax, easy, hard doesn’t matter everything should be valid as far you enjoy this game.

 

And yea is hard to please everybody but in general is better from the old fight and eventually the community are gonna find one way or another to cheese using the most cheapest and dumb tactic ever made if you are trying to nerf things just for the sake of hating how others are playing that's not healthy this is not a competitive game there's no reason to nerf how other players play.

 

I think it's less about people wanting others to play the way they do and more so them not wanting there to be one solved way to fight crab king I'm probably not the best at describing this as I'm not the most invested in the crab king side of this update but to give a extreme example. Imagine if in the next update a new weapon was added to the science machine you wouldn't be forced to use this weapon but it requires the same resources as a spear this weapon would immediately one shot any boss it hits now you could just ignore this weapon and play like normal but in the back of your head doing things normally feels less satisfying we like variety in how we approach a situation but this isn't variety it's simply the answer and every other choice feels like you intentionally choosing wrong.

Now take this with a grain of salt as again I'm someone who isn't really invested in this boss update but they could probably revert the change and simply make it so purple gem stacking gives you less rewards while more dangerous gem combinations give you more and that might satisfy both parties...maybe?

Edited June 24, 2024 by Mysterious box

[Cyrefy]

At least the orange gems are good for something now. 

We no longer need to kill bishops to speedrun, just mine. Thank you Klei for forcing us to find an even easier way.  

[Sir Noel]

49 minutes ago, Beetrice said:

THEY DID IT!!! THEY NERFED USING ONLY PURPLE GEMS AND SPAMMING PAN FLUTE!!! MY DREAMS HAVE COME TRUE

Now people spam green or orange, not much has changed. Unless you're happy it takes longer to fight him optimally now?

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I think it's less about people wanting others to play the way they do and more so them not wanting there to be one solved way to fight crab king I'm probably not the best at describing this as I'm not the most invested in the crab king side of this update but to give a extreme example. Imagine if in the next update a new weapon was added to the science machine you wouldn't be forced to use this weapon but it requires the same resources as a spear this weapon would immediately one shot any boss it hits now you could just ignore this weapon and play like normal but in the back of your head doing things normally feels less satisfying we like variety in how we approach a situation but this isn't variety it's simply the answer and every other choice feels like you intentionally choosing wrong.

Many don't seem to understand this. Intentionally adding restrictions for yourself is different than the game having those restrictions to begin with. It's a simple fact most people are going to take the path of least resistance.

[Brotid01]

40 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Imagine if in the next update a new weapon was added to the science machine you wouldn't be forced to use this weapon but it requires the same resources as a spear this weapon would immediately one shot any boss it hits now you could just ignore this weapon and play like normal but in the back of your head doing things normally feels less satisfying we like variety in how we approach a situation but this isn't variety it's simply the answer and every other choice feels like you intentionally choosing wrong.

You're just describing Wanda/Wolfgang there little buddy jokes no so jokes aside.

It's different an item from a boss so I kinda not fully understand your point there.

If you are doing over and over the same thing is not because someone is forcing you is because you want to or the game don't offer you another path, it’s not like you have shadow hands controlling you and force you to use purple gems.

Sadly, for a lot of people, OP items are a thing in every game since the beginning, but nerfing is not the right call in this case it changes nothing.

What’s the gain nerfing purple gems? nothing, people are now using orange, and then let’s nerf orange to see what’s happen hmm… nothing the people are gonna swap to green and go on and on.

Making it non-viable gems archives nothing, you're just limited the ways people can play and funny enough making this fight more boring and annoying.

and yea some people always gonna do the easy way out, you can't change that no matter how many gems you nerf there's gonna be people always trying to chesee.

So nerfing the Purple gems is pointless, nerfing the Yellow are pontless, nerfing this, nerfing that is pointless.

No matter how hard you try you simple cannot change the way some people play and that's okay, but the thing you can do as Devs and Community is offering different ways to archive the same goal and nerfing the OP "Item" it’s not gonna do much some people are just gonna use the second OP "Item" instead nothing more.

And then why don't we offer feedback with substantial changes to the others gems to make this fight more interactive and fun, but instead some people just go for the wrong choice aka nerfing.

And if you keep nerfing gems at the end this fight is gonna become Toadstool 2.0 not a hard fight just recourses consuming-time consuming fight.

Time consuming ≠ Harder fight.

So if my choices is to use gems than make me waste more resources, time for nothing or keep the fight easy I’m gonna chose the easy one, mine as well stay with the purple gems are fun yea easy but i don't care i was fun.

And for last if you cannot enjoy the game without using the most overpower items, items that makes you feel the rest less satisfying sorry to say it, nerf it is only gonna makes you feel empty, that’s why I don’t play S tiers characters as much it brings me no joy playing, and that's why i play webber and like to film a cooking show with the spiders, play as warly making Kitchen nightmare in the constant, playing Stardew valley as Wormwood, Destroy the Pigfolks as Wurt, brings me more joy, more variety over nerfing items.

Nerfing ≠ Better fight or more fun.

[Mysterious box]

43 minutes ago, Brotid01 said:

You're just describing Wanda/Wolfgang there little buddy jokes no so jokes aside.

It's different an item from a boss so I kinda not fully understand your point there.

If you are doing over and over the same thing is not because someone is forcing you is because you want to or the game don't offer you another path, it’s not like you have shadow hands controlling you and force you to use purple gems.

Sadly, for a lot of people, OP items are a thing in every game since the beginning, but nerfing is not the right call in this case it changes nothing.

What’s the gain nerfing purple gems? nothing, people are now using orange, and then let’s nerf orange to see what’s happen hmm… nothing the people are gonna swap to green and go on and on.

Making it non-viable gems archives nothing, you're just limited the ways people can play and funny enough making this fight more boring and annoying.

and yea some people always gonna do the easy way out, you can't change that no matter how many gems you nerf there's gonna be people always trying to chesee.

So nerfing the Purple gems is pointless, nerfing the Yellow are pontless, nerfing this, nerfing that is pointless.

No matter how hard you try you simple cannot change the way some people play and that's okay, but the thing you can do as Devs and Community is offering different ways to archive the same goal and nerfing the OP "Item" it’s not gonna do much some people are just gonna use the second OP "Item" instead nothing more.

And then why don't we offer feedback with substantial changes to the others gems to make this fight more interactive and fun, but instead some people just go for the wrong choice aka nerfing.

And if you keep nerfing gems at the end this fight is gonna become Toadstool 2.0 not a hard fight just recourses consuming-time consuming fight.

Time consuming ≠ Harder fight.

So if my choices is to use gems than make me waste more resources, time for nothing or keep the fight easy I’m gonna chose the easy one, mine as well stay with the purple gems are fun yea easy but i don't care i was fun.

And for last if you cannot enjoy the game without using the most overpower items, items that makes you feel the rest less satisfying sorry to say it, nerf it is only gonna makes you feel empty, that’s why I don’t play S tiers characters as much it brings me no joy playing, and that's why i play webber and like to film a cooking show with the spiders, play as warly making Kitchen nightmare in the constant, playing Stardew valley as Wormwood, Destroy the Pigfolks as Wurt, brings me more joy, more variety over nerfing items.

Nerfing ≠ Better fight or more fun.

I kinda feel like you missed the entire point of what I said but oh well.

[arubaro]

13 hours ago, roboiviv said:

Fortunately, you and a lot of other people couldn't stop talking about how "boring" and "lame" using the panflute is. I don't know why people don't complain as much for other uses of it, like on BeeQueen or Dragonfly. But for the new CK fight, that was just updated to be actually good and interactive, we now have it changed back to being obnoxious again. So thanks.
I think Klei is often much better off just doing what they deem right, instead of trying to please some players. They usually hit a good balance with their first iterations.

So you want 1click wins? Pan flute is op and their sleep time should be nerfed but it the mid time they can fix a boss which can be configurated to spawn a lot of mobs, instead of increasing other stats and atacks, so 1 item dont counter the entire mechanic

I dont want to have only 1 easy way to beat CK and i dont want a boss that spawn meninios becoming a 1v1 stand still pressing F

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by arubaro

[reddocc]

The purple gem change despite everything it encourages variety, characters that can kill minions can still use 9 purple gems, I swear people just come to complain here and don't actually play the game at all

[GreenBowers]

I don't think it should be easy to just put all of the same color gem into crabking and completely bypass whatever it buffs. The purpose of the entire boss is to modify his attributes and craft your own boss experience, but, prior to this update, being able to just laser in on a single gem type, slotting 9 purple gems and using panflute to completely negate the buffed minions was dumb.

Using all of one gem should make that related mechanic incredibly challenging and consuming to deal with that specific aspect. The play should be to mix and max gems to make stuff harder that you're comfortable with.

If you do use all 9 of one gem type, and its actually challenging to deal with but you're still able to do it, then thats fine. Its just that, purple gems were basically free and offered no additional challenge before.

[Dr.Webber]

OK, I still haven’t ironed out my issues with the alignments of both trees yet But and that besides, maybe altering the amphibian section to make it regenerate better(probably faster, but I might keep it at the same rate but with more Regenerated per regeneration) And possibly making it so you can put Durans and maybe other foods Other than kelp on the dish for increased Level of its effect I made some small adjustments to the wurt tree I think poles  everything  together much better:

also, if you don’t like my ideas, another way, the community feeder can be accused instead of speeding up the respawn time of merms I forget where I heard it from, but it could be used for the community of merms To feed Merm king when he’s in need and you’re off doing other things

and if we’re gonna stick with the resurrection thing, may I suggest this design change: + Horns for merm guards

or this, but the first one preferably:

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by Dr.Webber

[Wikte]

They should improve crab king when hes socketed with orange gems, since hes a joke with only orange gems, before he would require multiple hits to cancel heal in my opinion it should be:

3 orange should require 2 attacks to cancel heal

5 orange should require 3 attacks to cancel heal

7 orange should require 4 attacks to cancel heal

9 orange should require 5 attacks to cancel heal

So you could still manage easily cancel with two hits on pearl + 1 orange, which would still make him a joke on multiple people or with Weather Pain

[arubaro]

18 minutes ago, Wikte said:

They should improve crab king when hes socketed with orange gems, since hes a joke with only orange gems, before he would require multiple hits to cancel heal in my opinion it should be:

3 orange should require 2 attacks to cancel heal

5 orange should require 3 attacks to cancel heal

7 orange should require 4 attacks to cancel heal

9 orange should require 5 attacks to cancel heal

So you could still manage easily cancel with two hits on pearl + 1 orange, which would still make him a joke on multiple people or with Weather Pain

As you said here:

So you could still manage easily cancel with two hits on pearl + 1 orange, which would still make him a joke on multiple people or with Weather Pain

It wont be a good design. Choosing a configuration shouldnt be based on "this way this is a joke". Also why would multiple players choose other config than that if only affects healing and will be cancelled?

[Roodmas]

38 minutes ago, arubaro said:

As you said here:

So you could still manage easily cancel with two hits on pearl + 1 orange, which would still make him a joke on multiple people or with Weather Pain

It wont be a good design. Choosing a configuration shouldnt be based on "this way this is a joke". Also why would multiple players choose other config than that if only affects healing and will be cancelled?

Not to mention it's not so easy to collect that many orange gems. I think a lot of people here are used to ruins rushing and gathering lots of rare gems before day 10, and that's fine. But then you might as well have some rewards for your efforts in the form of an easily manageable Crab King fight.

And again, just the fact that now there's a debate on whether orange or green gems are better proves that they managed to make the choices somewhat balanced.

I'd still argue that purple gems are still valid as long as you come prepared with multiple pan flutes. The point is, the fight is not more difficult either way, you just have to adapt to what gems you have and prepare accordingly.

[Wikte]

15 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

Not to mention it's not so easy to collect that many orange gems. I think a lot of people here are used to ruins rushing and gathering lots of rare gems before day 10, and that's fine. But then you might as well have some rewards for your efforts in the form of an easily manageable Crab King fight.

And again, just the fact that now there's a debate on whether orange or green gems are better proves that they managed to make the choices somewhat balanced.

I'd still argue that purple gems are still valid as long as you come prepared with multiple pan flutes. The point is, the fight is not more difficult either way, you just have to adapt to what gems you have and prepare accordingly.

Normally you will find CK using Astral Detector, that means you have been in ruins anyway
Actually you can still manage with 1 panflute to kill him with full purple gems

In fact you can kill CK going full in in any type of gems, some are more difficult but for other characters they get easier

[Mojmaowo]

17 minutes ago, Wikte said:

Normally you will find CK using Astral Detector, that means you have been in ruins anyway
Actually you can still manage with 1 panflute to kill him with full purple gems

In fact you can kill CK going full in in any type of gems, some are more difficult but for other characters they get easier

I have seen astral detector used to find crabking only once almost always people find him before they do the moon stone event

Edited June 24, 2024 by Mojmaowo

[Roodmas]

1 hour ago, Wikte said:

Normally you will find CK using Astral Detector, that means you have been in ruins anyway

Yeah I'll give you that. Sometimes you are lucky to just stumble across CK (and if you spend a lot of time sailing you probably will eventually) but normally Astral Detector is the way to go.