Elephant in the Zoom: Horizon expandinator and client mods

[loopuleasa]

I have to say I am a shameless enjoyer of client mods like the zoom mod and the gardener hat vision mods, that allow me to use literal items that I don't have in my inventory, which seems cheap, but I can't stop using them because they are so convenient in practice.

Wouldn't a better compromise be to allow the default zoom the be slightly higher, remove the clouds when zooming, and BLOCK the client side ability to replicate these behaviors (if technically possible)

In theory, the client shouldn't offer the ability that would require an item.

 

 

Here are some lists of client mods:

- ALL: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1860864238

- No "cheats" version: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2789777888

What other such client mods examples exist?

 

 

[Mike23Ua]

Klei should intentionally put in a glitch that crashes the game trying to use them mods with the official version 

[grm9]

9 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

I can't stop using them because they are so convenient in practice.

Wouldn't a better compromise be to BLOCK the client side ability to replicate these behaviors (if technically possible)

asking devs to force everyone to play the way you think is right because you can't force yourself to play that way is really weird

[loopuleasa]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Klei should intentionally put in a glitch that crashes the game trying to use them mods with the official version 

Nah, just cap zoomout functions unless item conditions are met

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

asking devs to force everyone to play the way you think is right because you can't force yourself to play that way is really weird

Not what I am asking

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Not what I am asking

pretty much what you're asking, since you're asking the devs to prevent people from zooming out by using mods even though that's unnecessary

2 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Nah, just cap zoomout functions unless item conditions are met

most likely not possible since if the client wouldn't have info about things outside of zoom out range, you'd see tiles and things only loading in after you get close, and if you don't do that, clients'll have info about things outside of zoom out range, so you'll need to make playing the game without zoom out mods more annoying to prevent people from using zoom out mods, so this isn't worth it

[loopuleasa]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you'll need to make playing the game without zoom out mods more annoying to prevent people from using zoom out mods, so this isn't worth it

Yes, this is what I'm afraid too. Once you give players a cool toy it is really hard to take that power away. I also think it's too disruptive to do, but having the client be able to replicate items is a weird place to be.

This is why I mentioned expanding default zoom a bit would be a compromise.

[arubaro]

Nah, the next step will be adding other awful mods like extra equip slots or an anime character (but we have a furry character tho )

[Golden Daemon]

6 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

This is why I mentioned expanding default zoom a bit would be a compromise.

Hmmm....

[loopuleasa]

12 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

would be a compromise.

2 minutes ago, Golden Daemon said:

Hmmm....

[grm9]

18 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Yes, this is what I'm afraid too. Once you give players a cool toy it is really hard to take that power away. I also think it's too disruptive to do, but having the client be able to replicate items is a weird place to be

point was that you don't need to, the game isn't competitive, they could just make the junk yard daywalker hat more useful since i don't use it even though i play without zoom out mods, maybe increase map reveal range too

[00petar00]

No.

I don't want to stop using mods and I don't want to be forced to use items for this. There is only 3 equipment slots and mods can be considered cheaty but it is your personal choice If you want to use them, your lack of self control shouldn't result in me not being able to play the way I want. I also always have to bring up that this isn't a competitive game since I wouldn't want these mods existing if it was.

Horizon expandinator is a terrible item in itself and probably isn't worth using almost ever over armor, light source or eyebrella.

1 hour ago, loopuleasa said:

Not what I am asking

That is literally what you are asking.

[loopuleasa]

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

That is literally what you are asking.

Yeah, I don't think there is an universe where the client zoom mod will be removed without a national level riot.

It does feel really good to use, even more than action queue imo

[00petar00]

11 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Yeah, I don't think there is an universe where the client zoom mod will be removed without a national level riot.

It does feel really good to use, even more than action queue imo

There's a very very small chance of that happening but it doesn't change the fact that it is what you are asking for.

Zoom mods aren't simply used for gameplay advantage but also to take screenshots/recordings that include a much larger part of player's bases.

Scrappy werepig loot is very bad, Horizon expanditor as an item is often going to be left out by the players because there isn't much use even without zoom mods, I would prefer to use my head slot for something more important.

[_zwb]

2 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

BLOCK the client side ability to replicate these behaviors (if technically possible)

Wouldn't be possible unless mods are not available && the game shuts down when the hash sum of scripts.zip is not as expected. The latter has to be made into the c++ game engine as well.

If klei went that far making it difficult for users to modify the program, their game wouldn't be worth buying.

[Bumber64]

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

most likely not possible since if the client wouldn't have info about things outside of zoom out range, you'd see tiles and things only loading in after you get close, and if you don't do that, clients'll have info about things outside of zoom out range

You could have the server not send info on distant objects unless player is using the item.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Bumber64 said:

You could have the server not send info on distant objects unless player is using the item

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

you'd see tiles and things only loading in after you get close

[Bumber64]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you'd see tiles and things only loading in after you get close

Only if you were using client mods, which is your own problem, not Klei's.

[grm9]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

Only if you were using client mods, which is your own problem

no, that'd happen when playing normally if you'd further limit it to only see things that're within default max zoom out range

[Bumber64]

Just now, grm9 said:

no, that'd happen when playing normally if you'd further limit it to only see things that're within default max zoom out range

How? You shouldn't be able to see outside the default max range unless you're using the item.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

How? You shouldn't be able to see outside the default max range unless you're using the item

ping with lag comp

[Wormboi]

Forums when people play the way they like:

[Radicaljoe]

I still think the only way to make the expander a good item is to make it an upgrade to other hats, the head slot is one of the most fought for slots and being able to see just a teensy bit further is not worth it. However if it was not it's own hat but instead a part that you can add to a different head slot item then I think it would be cool. Maybe it can be merged with another hat at Wagstaff's tables that get smashed for blueprints, giving those some use.

[Ardcrumb]

Yet again everyone forgets about the console player

[GreenBowers]

I just think it needs to go from a boss drop to something you can just get from the scrapyard day 1. Its most useful when you're exploring, and by the time you kill daywalker twice you probably don't need to explore much anymore.

[YouKnowWho]

I get the concern, but I think the situations where it'd be a problem for other players are fairly niche. Though I personally think those mods are a bit of a crutch, I don't think that should stop anyone from playing how they want in their own sessions.

As for the horizon expandinator: some more map-reveal range would be nice, but it's alright if it isn't game-defining.