Suggestions and voting on POWDER MONKEY's AI and Cannon

[adminaaassh]

相比于投石车，大炮的关注度较低，作为一个经常建工厂的玩家，我觉得这个话题需要重新考虑，目前的猴子大炮AI确实需要修改，破坏了一些原有的玩法，希望大家能够重视并修改这个问题。

下面是猴子炮正式版与测试版的对比。

 

 

[adminaaassh]

The new AI for Powder Monkey exhibits issues such as standing still or running around aimlessly, and it is not as intelligent as before. The efficiency of firing cannons has also decreased. The changed aiming angle has rendered many existing factories ineffective, and the distance at which the cannon targets ships has become shorter.

• Regarding the Cannon, it seems that code modifications were made to accommodate the new Pirate Raid system. I think it would be reasonable and innovative to allow the Cannon and Powder Monkey to have a separate interaction method on land, which would be the same as the original, while using the new interaction method on the ship.

Compared to catapults, more people prefer using catapults as defensive measures, which should be quite practical and garner more attention in regular and quickly-ending saves. However, for players engaged in long-term construction of various factories, cannons are actually used more frequently, with more diverse mechanisms involved. While I anticipate that those concerned with this matter may be in the minority, I hope developers can take a moment to listen to our small group's voices and make some optimizations.

[adminaaassh]

Regarding the role of cannons, everyone can take a look at this post.

Of course, this is not everything; there are many other related mechanisms and uses.

[adminaaassh]

 

 

These are some of the factories I commonly use. I won't show how to build them here, just how to use them and what you can get from them. Although they are based on others' designs, I have made some modifications myself, including changes to placement and certain details, as well as related planning. You can take a look, and perhaps learn something or understand why there are players who focus on factory-building. I hope the developers will pay attention to this small group of players who are interested in building long-term factory setups. These represent their interests and efforts. Some modifications to the cannons would also be appreciated.

At the same time, I hope everyone can participate in the voting and share their opinions and suggestions.

In this update, the catapult can accomplish more tasks. I believe this is some compensation from the developers to the factory players, but it is still not convenient enough. For me, it is still not a better choice and I think there is still room for optimization. For example, the catapult still cannot replace the cannon for certain tasks. Therefore, I hope the developers can further optimize the Powder Monkey's AI or make some modifications to the cannon.

This is a video by the creator of the Nightmare Fuel factory. If you are interested, you can check it out and study it.

https://b23.tv/pPMYqhF

[adminaaassh]

This is another factory by the same creator, unrelated to cannons:

https://b23.tv/FitjxfU

The original creators of the remaining factories told me not to share their video links.

[Memetan]

I want them to shoot at players position.

[adminaaassh]

The construction and design of these factories have taken countless efforts and ideas, and they are inseparable from cannons. In the late stages of the game (I mean save files that span thousands or tens of thousands of days), there are generally only a few things that can be done: building landscapes, constructing bases, changing terrain, fighting various bosses, placing Dreadstone Pillars underground, and building factories. Now, with such modifications to the cannons, which are the most commonly used in factories, I think it is really not acceptable. Therefore, I hope the developers can make some optimizations.

[Master_NiX]

The concept of factories is quite new to me, but on the 3rd video, I noticed a hound that cant leave the water... What is it's purpose?

[adminaaassh]

2 minutes ago, Master_NiX said:

The concept of factories is quite new to me, but on the 3rd video, I noticed a hound that cant leave the water... What is it's purpose?

Used to herd the fish to the same location, this dog belongs to the Dog King.

People who oppose, I hope you can express your opinions and suggestions. Although I think some of the opposition might be because of my previous support for the catapult, which has caused resentment and led to malicious downvotes against me.

[zhangsheng]

Powder Monkey does need optimization. This is not only a problem with the factory, but also related to some game settings.
It is normal for Powder Monkey to have a deviation angle on the ship, and it is difficult to aim when the ship is moving. On the dock or land, the accuracy of aiming should be significantly higher than when on board the ship.
So my suggestion is to design two states for the Powder Monkey. When on board, the aiming accuracy is low, but the attack frequency is high because it is escorting treasures and will definitely be very restless, and the ship is not stable. On docks or land, the aiming accuracy is relatively high, but the attack frequency is slightly lower because it can naturally aim steadily on a stable surface.

[Kvetevk]

Funny monkey with infinite cannonballs = farms

This is both funny and stupid at the same time
Also DST is not factorio

[adminaaassh]

4 minutes ago, KvetekSK said:

Funny monkey with infinite cannonballs = farms

This is both funny and stupid at the same time
Also DST is not factorio

Now on the test server, you can still fire infinitely, and regarding what you just mentioned, perhaps you could take a look at my previous comments.

 

Additionally, Winona has been modified now, but she can still construct many of the factories she could before. Now, she should be able to construct even more different ones.

Furthermore, the process of designing and manufacturing factories is quite interesting and challenging. It's not foolish at all; it involves numerous experiments and requires mastery of various game mechanics to establish an excellent factory.

[Kvetevk]

I honestly dont care about cheeses with bosses or farms with mobs

but I think that if you rely on farms to collect items for you then why do you play the game in the first place, like the game is about survival.
If you have some goals or some plans to do, then go ahead, nobody can stop you,
but if you cry about something being removed then womp womp for you I guess.

[adminaaassh]

This is the spider factory I just temporarily built, and it is not yet complete. If you build it during normal gameplay, you need to consider fire prevention and the selection of specific locations, among other things. You can take a look, and here is the original author's link: https://b23.tv/ZXyTjgE

These factories are not as easy to build as they might seem. There are quite a few involved mechanisms, and even a slight deviation can lead to failure. The order in which the buildings are placed is also crucial, and the distance between the ships needs to be carefully managed. If you are interested, you can try to replicate them. I believe you will discover some of the enjoyment and intricacies of the design and understand how painstaking and laborious the process of constructing these factories can be.

I know that the cannon modifications in the current test server do not completely destroy some factories, but they still completely ruin some of them. The ones that are not completely destroyed will be greatly affected, and these impacts are negative.

I have gathered some other suggestions. Some people propose adding equipment to fix the cannon completely, allowing it to remain stationary. In the original post, someone suggested introducing a new cannon that is distinct from the current one but retains the same functionality as the original.

[HeatAndRun]

The powder monkey farm is one of the most fun endgame contents, and now it's a goner. What a shame.

[chirsg]

15 hours ago, KvetekSK said:

womp womp for you I guess

What planet does this yield a civil response? You're relying on another participant in a conversation not to retaliate to your insult

[adminaaassh]

4 minutes ago, HeatAndRun said:

The powder monkey farm is one of the most fun endgame contents, and now it's a goner. What a shame.

Currently, it is still in the testing phase. I believe there is still room and potential for optimization, but more voices are needed to draw the developers' attention to it.

[goblinball]

16 hours ago, KvetekSK said:

but I think that if you rely on farms to collect items for you then why do you play the game in the first place, like the game is about survival.

Building farms is fun

reaping the rewards of your farms is also fun

thats why these ppl play the game this playstyle is fun. yes the game is about survival but it’s also about farms

[adminaaassh]

 In the test server, regarding cannons, they might destroy adjacent cannons while the ship is sailing. If a cannon is placed at the center of the ship, it might cause the monkey to become unresponsive. This issue hasn't been consistently reproduced in recordings but occurs occasionally. Monkeys might also become unresponsive when their inventory is full. The remaining video time shows some of the usage methods I discovered. However, I believe there is potential to accommodate both old and new cannon mechanics, which would enrich the gameplay experience.

 

[adminaaassh]

8 hours ago, HeatAndRun said:

The powder monkey farm is one of the most fun endgame contents, and now it's a goner. What a shame.

I apologize for my ignorance and foolishness, as well as my uninformed assumptions. I hope they haven't spoiled your mood. I'm truly sorry.

我为我的无知愚蠢，以及无知的臆想，感到抱歉，希望没有破坏到你的心情，非常抱歉
我为我的卑劣向你道歉，真的十分抱歉

[yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

23 hours ago, KvetekSK said:

I honestly dont care about cheeses with bosses or farms with mobs

but I think that if you rely on farms to collect items for you then why do you play the game in the first place, like the game is about survival.
If you have some goals or some plans to do, then go ahead, nobody can stop you,
but if you cry about something being removed then womp womp for you I guess.

Unbelievable, you sound as if Klei's last hotfix did something wrong since the change that every character can arm the catapult is not about "survival".

How meaningless and harmful your words are since you limit the creativity and of a sandbox game. What Klei have been doing is exploring and enriching the game's diversity and content of all aspects. You should think why do you play it in the first place as you showed no respect to Klei's efforts in those words.

You only care about what you like or not. And what is worse is that you pretend as if your words are officially recognized.

I respect everyone no matter they are in favor of the powder monkeys change or not. What makes me mad is not monkeys, but your argument. Everyone can criticize playing methods they don't like with this kind of argument. And is there any benefits to do so?

One of the reasons why the beta branch exists is to provide a platform for players and Klei to communicate about the new updates. But you sound like this is abnormal? Why? Merely for you don't like the farm thing?

[HeatAndRun]

1 hour ago, adminaaassh said:

-

Um, I think there was some misunderstanding was occured. The reason I voted for "No, it’s already very good and doesn’t need further optimization" section was because I thought the changes (I understood the meaning of "optimization" in the vote had same meaning with this) made to the monkey AI in beta should not be introduced in live branch. Maybe I didn't fully understood the meanings of each questions. Why I would make fun of you without no reason? I'm also the one who has several auto farms in my megabase soloing world too.

[adminaaassh]

24 minutes ago, HeatAndRun said:

Um, I think there was some misunderstanding was occured. The reason I voted for "No, it’s already very good and doesn’t need further optimization" section was because I thought the changes (I understood the meaning of "optimization" in the vote had same meaning with this) made to the monkey AI in beta should not be introduced in live branch. Maybe I didn't fully understood the meanings of each questions. Why I would make fun of you without no reason? I'm also the one who has several auto farms in my megabase soloing world too.

I apologize for my ignorance and foolishness, as well as my uninformed assumptions. I hope they haven't spoiled your mood. I'm truly sorry.

These are all machine translations, and I'm not sure if they are correct because my English is not very good. I apologize for my inadequacy

我为我的无知愚蠢，以及无知的臆想，感到抱歉，希望没有破坏到你的心情，非常抱歉
我为我的卑劣向你道歉，真的十分抱歉

[Kvetevk]

10 hours ago, chirsg said:

What planet does this yield a civil response? You're relying on another participant in a conversation not to retaliate to your insult

It means: bad for you I guess

1 hour ago, yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy said:

Unbelievable, you sound as if Klei's last hotfix did something wrong since the change that every character can arm the catapult is not about "survival".

How meaningless and harmful your words are since you limit the creativity and of a sandbox game. What Klei have been doing is exploring and enriching the game's diversity and content of all aspects. You should think why do you play it in the first place as you showed no respect to Klei's efforts in those words.

You only care about what you like or not. And what is worse is that you pretend as if your words are officially recognized.

I respect everyone no matter they are in favor of the powder monkeys change or not. What makes me mad is not monkeys, but your argument. Everyone can criticize playing methods they don't like with this kind of argument. And is there any benefits to do so?

One of the reasons why the beta branch exists is to provide a platform for players and Klei to communicate about the new updates. But you sound like this is abnormal? Why? Merely for you don't like the farm thing?

Im sorry if I was somehow rude.

And I do not care in what state the game is, I simply play it for enjoyment
I know many people enjoy megabasing and making big farms
but Its Kleis game and they have the right to change anything on it

What I liked about Dont Starve was that it was pretty realistic and unforgiving.
In DST we dont have the same feeling, Im not saying thats a bad thing
but Its Kleis choice.

[Kvetevk]

Also, funny monkey goes boom boom