chirsg Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 She's fine. We don't need changes with her. Her skill tree is not perfect, but honestly, it's the closest thing to perfect we've got imo. She's appropriately powered and if she wasn't changed, she would lose little. There are certain parts of her that are basically an unburst appendix, but I think that's kind of the best we can muster. The team did a good job with her. Going forward though, I think that there's a good precedent that can be set with character perks and indirect buffs and nerfs without actually touching a character. This is why I don't think Wigfrid should be able to eat the night vision fruit. Personally, I'd be content with a stronger character, but a weakness that Wigfrid doesn't have weakens Wilson. If she can eat the nightberry, it's just another reason to pick her over wilson. tl;dr, my point is completed characters should be buffed and nerfed according to their interactions with the world going forward. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceShiki Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 I'd argue that Wigfrid should have only a single (pair) skill that requires you to beat AFW/CC to be useful, not 5. I'm overall happy with the skill tree though. Just not with non-affinity skills requiring you to engage with endgame content to do anything. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuteC Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 Are you joking? She has the entire beefalo branch that doesn't fit her character both gameplay and lore wise, the only good part of her skill gear is the UPGRADED spear and you're not even able to share it, the affinity songs compete against fireproof falsetto in terms of usefulness and also you have to use a skill point on +5 planar defense which should just be part of her character by default. The skill tree misses the entire point of Wigfrid. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted June 6, 2024 Author Share Posted June 6, 2024 10 minutes ago, CuteC said: Are you joking? She has the entire beefalo branch that doesn't fit her character both gameplay and lore wise, the only good part of her skill gear is the UPGRADED spear and you're not even able to share it, the affinity songs compete against fireproof falsetto in terms of usefulness and also you have to use a skill point on +5 planar defense which should just be part of her character by default. The skill tree misses the entire point of Wigfrid. How do you utilize wigfrid on beefalo? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 Because I’m a writer I can see why Klei lets Wigfrid “slip out” of her method acting role from time to time. she is not and never has been on a strict meat only diet, she’s method acting being a mighty Viking warrior. They could’ve called it Night Vision Jewels and their little stones that magically embed themselves into your body like this game I’m playing on Xbox Gamepass Lords of the Fallen, and no one would have a problem with Wigfrid having access to it then… now would they? I think I more than accurately prove my point here. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuteC Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 1 hour ago, chirsg said: How do you utilize wigfrid on beefalo? I don't because she is better WITHOUT one, again, the branch completely misses Wigfrid's character. If I wanted to play on a beefalo I would use someone that benefits from doing so, Wigfrid doesn't. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 4 minutes ago, CuteC said: I don't because she is better WITHOUT one, again, the branch completely misses Wigfrid's character. If I wanted to play on a beefalo I would use someone that benefits from doing so, Wigfrid doesn't. That’s not entirely true, spec the right skills for Beefalo branch and Wigfrid will passively gain inspiration while riding on Beefalo, this is extremely helpful for situations where you can’t find any enemies to keep her dumb inspiration meter up. I get that not everyone uses the battle scrolls, but you can’t deny the power of something like “Encore” reviving dead team mates, sure it may not be as powerful as Wanda’s Second chance clocks, but Wigfrid being able to redeem souls before their sent to Valhalla just feels fitting of her. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuteC Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 51 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: That’s not entirely true, spec the right skills for Beefalo branch and Wigfrid will passively gain inspiration while riding on Beefalo, this is extremely helpful for situations where you can’t find any enemies to keep her dumb inspiration meter up. You don't need and cannot gain enough inspiration fighting regular enemies, her songs are best used (and mainly only available) with bosses. They are also meant to be used in battles, with very little use (if any) outside of them, the only one I can see being useful in that situation is the revive stinger and that one is EXTREMELY awkward to do so, you need very high inspiration (which is already difficult to maintain with a boss), I've done it before, as a joke. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 Same to jellybeans. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
themightyone Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 I like her skill tree overall, but I don't like how it takes 4 points to get the battle saddle . Seems like the first 3 points you burn before the saddle becomes available are kinda useless or at leat 2 are . The extra riding time and quicker domestication are wastes . Which is unfortunate because I have been digging the battle saddle in solo worlds I play. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruvimaster Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 There were two updates dedicated to Wormwood, Willow and Wigfrid. And I still see many posts asking for changes in some of them. I understand that these are finished projects and I wouldn't want a new update dedicated to any character that already had a skill tree (especially for characters that had two chances). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortalbane Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 Completely disagree with original post. Some parts of Wigfrid's tree are not her natural extension, they feel dragged here by the horns. Blowing a beefalo horn is the most viking thing you can do. Klei used it only as a requirement for a song unlock. She doesn't need beefalo at all, not to say a whole riding skill branch. Her signature starting items are thrown away, instead of receiving more purpose. Affinities are super meh. Fighting with a shield and that unarmed hit animation is super-duper meh. One lonely planar defense skill looks like a sad joke. Which of those do you call a good job? Keeping characters intact and adding some tasteless stuff with questionable use - this is your preferred approach? Better not add skill trees at all then. My preferred approach for "completed" characters, as you call it, is exploring new playstyles and roles. Proper exploring, i mean. Not like Wolfgang and his whistle - one lonely skill that has zero synergy with the rest of the character, and no further backup in skills. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
arubaro Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 Her skill tree is the 3rd worst skill tree only behind Wolfgang’s qnd Wilson's The lack of variety, the little ammount of good perks for new players, a perk for a single time craft, unnecessary planar armor (she already reduce planar damage with her passive and has an unique helmet with planar armor), ugly and out of no where crafts and the worst affinity perks behind Wolfgang’s Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 The key takeaways from the Wigfrid skill tree are, Self Regenerating Helmets (bro all you gotta do is literally spear dash hordes of spiders repeatedly to repair your damaged helms now.) Speaking of Spear Dash.. it’s free and doesn’t use Durability on your Elden Spear when used, so even Without the upgraded Charged Static late game whatever spear, You can find a use for these things early game. Even a Newbie DST player can enjoy Elden spears (without the static upgrade) they only need to know how to kill or kite something to kill volt goat. Lucking up on getting the horns may be a bit annoying though :/. Then lastly there’s the battle rond, it isn’t a very effective weapon from my experience with it.. but what it is moderately decent at doing is allowing Wigfrid to tank things like Deerclops ice smash hits. Comparing her to Willows Skill Tree I’d say she’s doing pretty alright, regardless of how many players hate the Beefalo skill tree stuff. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuteC Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: Then lastly there’s the battle rond, it isn’t a very effective weapon from my experience with it.. but what it is moderately decent at doing is allowing Wigfrid to tank things like Deerclops ice smash hits. I would love to agree with you because this is something I'd want, but tanking in dst is meaningless with bosses having aoe attacks that hit other people anyway and also how often they switch aggro for absolutely no reason. The only time it would be useful is if the rest of your team is doing ranged attacks... and even then it's still useless because the boss aggro isn't very good with ranged stuff. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said: she is not and never has been on a strict meat only diet, she’s method acting being a mighty Viking warrior. This absolutely destroys her character though because the impression I feel she's supposed to give is that she's so dedicated to her acting that she'll stick to it if it kills her and as such I have to ask if she doesn't really care why even bother keeping the "downside" if it is always going to be taken away when it would actually be impactful? It'd be like removing Walter's allergy for bee queen and grumble bees specifically. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: This absolutely destroys her character though because the impression I feel she's supposed to give is that she's so dedicated to her acting that she'll stick to it if it kills her and as such I have to ask if she doesn't really care why even bother keeping the "downside" if it is always going to be taken away when it would actually be impactful? Real. Every time I see/hear/know Wigfrid can eat goodies, my head is spiraling with ????? It's not like she's so crippled at the health leech part to need the use of jellybeans. At this rate, why did Klei even bother to make downsides? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 34 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: This absolutely destroys her character though because the impression I feel she's supposed to give is that she's so dedicated to her acting that she'll stick to it if it kills her and as such I have to ask if she doesn't really care why even bother keeping the "downside" if it is always going to be taken away when it would actually be impactful? It'd be like removing Walter's allergy for bee queen and grumble bees specifically. I think specifically in the case of the surprise trees or whatever they’re called, they want Wigfrid to be able to benefit from that just as much as any other survivor, and as I said your putting too much weight on the item being a “Fruit” when what it should actually probably be is a consumable essence charm, that way it’s neither Meat, Nor Veggie. Plus do also keep in mind Klei only showed of two of those trees, but clearly stated there was going to be others so until the beta Ends (not starts.. but ends) we won’t know the full size & scope of those Surprise trees. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: the item being a “Fruit” I'd rather Klei take the "meated nettles" route tbh. Was it stupid? Yes. But at least it doesn't spit at what was done years ago. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 22 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: I think specifically in the case of the surprise trees or whatever they’re called, they want Wigfrid to be able to benefit from that just as much as any other survivor, and as I said your putting too much weight on the item being a “Fruit” when what it should actually probably be is a consumable essence charm, that way it’s neither Meat, Nor Veggie. Plus do also keep in mind Klei only showed of two of those trees, but clearly stated there was going to be others so until the beta Ends (not starts.. but ends) we won’t know the full size & scope of those Surprise trees. I'm not though what if the item was glowing meat would it suddenly be okay for Wurt to eat it? Like you said before they could have just as easily made it not a fruit and noone would have had any issues with it but they did which is why we have issues with them allowing Wigfrid to eat it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortalbane Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 2 hours ago, Anis5240 said: At this rate, why did Klei even bother to make downsides? They are slowly removing them. Does Wolfgang have downsides? I don't even remember having any when i played. Wendy got her dmg buffed from 75% to 115%, not even 100. Edit: Woodie has to pay skill points for that at least, but still. I wonder what will happen to Walter, whose downside is one of the most annoying. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 2 minutes ago, Mortalbane said: Does Wolfgang have downsides? I don't even remember having any when i played He has higher sanity drain when facing monsters, but y'know, barely gets noticed cuz of le funny 2x damage. You can subdue the drain a bit via having a pet, which is kinda cute. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 10 minutes ago, Mortalbane said: They are slowly removing them. Does Wolfgang have downsides? I don't even remember having any when i played. Wendy got her dmg buffed from 75% to 115%, not even 100. I wonder what will happen to Walter, whose downside is one of the most annoying. I mean they buffed Wx's downside and as for Wolgang his is additional sanity loss and the changed his other one to needing to workout. I'd be surprised if they touch Walter's downside though. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortalbane Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 1 hour ago, Anis5240 said: He has higher sanity drain when facing monsters I thought monsters lose sanity when they face him, with that damage 1 hour ago, Mysterious box said: I mean they buffed Wx's downside and as for Wolgang his is additional sanity loss and the changed his other one to needing to workout. Wouldn't call workout a downside Well, just wait for WX skill tree =) I feel slot increase and rain protection incoming Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted June 6, 2024 Share Posted June 6, 2024 3 minutes ago, Mortalbane said: Wouldn't call workout a downside Stopping your gameplay isn't a downside? 3 minutes ago, Mortalbane said: Well, just wait for WX skill tree =) I feel slot increase and rain protection incoming Doubt it. Woodie got his main downside axed because it didn't play nice with moon storms and Wendy's Abigail buff was a compromise reached from when Klei wanted to make her damage scale based on how hurt Wendy was which ended up making Wendy players not want to fight alongside her. So instead they made the buff petals to encourage people to fight alongside her. Even Wickerbottom got additional downsides in the form of shadow creatures spawning from low sanity reading and lowered max hp. Klei doesn't have a good reason to go back and nerf Wx or Walter's downsides. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156544-in-the-face-of-all-the-discontent-with-certain-characters-and-their-skill-trees-i-want-to-highlight-wigfrid/#findComment-1719822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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