chirsg Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 Wilson is not average. Let's say Wilson is the "Standard" but he is not average. He is worse. than average. I present to you, the matchup chart. This chart represents how each character measures up to Wilson. - Each character who is stated as "Better" can operate the same way Wilson can if the player so chooses. - Each character labelled "Pros/cons" naturally have pros and cons against Wilson where the cons would be a severe hinderance to survival on an intermediate skill level of a player. - Characters who are slightly better I feel have more advantages than disadvantages to edge them over Wilson. However, Wormwood might be a little contentious. - Characters labelled "Worse" are worse than Wilson. - Wanda is definitely better than Wilson, but is almost like playing a different game. Being generous, perhaps you can label Wilson as being around the middle of the ranks if you count every character who aren't labelled as "Better" than Wilson, it equates to 9 of 19 characters who strictly outrank Wilson. But even the pros/cons characters have feats and synergies where you would definitely prefer them over Wilson. Wilson doesn't really have much value outside of that. It's a little jarring to see a character as cool as Wilson being outperformed in almost every single way by 9 characters. Even gem transmutation is a fairly moot point. Each of the 9 characters strictly superior to wilson are better at procuring gems than he is. I'm not a Wilson main. But I like him. I think that Wilson deserves more than being severely outclassed by more than half the cast. Giving Wilson use of the codex umbra would raise him to a decent playing field relative to the 9 superior characters. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSpoon Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 4 minutes ago, chirsg said: Giving Wilson use of the codex umbra would raise him to a decent playing field relative to the 9 superior characters. I don't prefer the idea of buff that would reduce the relative value of Maxwell. My idea is a discount on crafting materials up to the Science Machine Tier. This is simple, straightforward and keeps Wilson as a beginner character. (My apologies to Lucy about board) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted May 28, 2024 Author Share Posted May 28, 2024 12 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said: I don't prefer the idea of buff that would reduce the relative value of Maxwell. Maxwell would undoubtedly remain the superior user of the codex umbra even if Wilson had use. A humongous part of why Maxwell is a better user of both the codex than hypothetical super wilson and by extension, wickerbottom, is because he can read wickerbottom's books while using his workers to harvest what is grown. Maxwell would be able to gather thousands of twigs, logs, rocks and grass by using his workers while continuously reading wickerbottom's books. Wilson would merely be able to do one off gathering tasks with codex. Don't worry. Maxwell's value is far above super Wilson's. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 Wilson is not the magic guy. He's the science guy. Him being able to use the Codex Umbra doesn't make any more sense than anybody else being able to use it. And he's fine as he is. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted May 28, 2024 Author Share Posted May 28, 2024 1 minute ago, Faintly Macabre said: Wilson is not the magic guy. He's the science guy. Him being able to use the Codex Umbra doesn't make any more sense than anybody else being able to use it. And he's fine as he is. He sat the nightmare throne and had to be freed by charlie herself. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faintly Macabre Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 7 minutes ago, chirsg said: He sat the nightmare throne and had to be freed by charlie herself. It doesn't seem likely that he spent a very long time there and hasn't shown any other sort of increased affinity for magic. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
arubaro Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 So you found that characters with perks are better than characters without Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 59 minutes ago, chirsg said: Giving Wilson use of the codex umbra would raise him to a decent playing field relative to the 9 superior characters. Edit your post and delete this. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkemal23 Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 The thing is, Wilson being the "blank" character would work if klei wasnt biased to other characters. Sure, Wilson is "supposed" to have no upsides or downsides but Wigfrid is also supposed to not eat anything thats not meat but here we are with the new fruits. Wormwood is supposed to have a hard time healing but here we are with a regeneration skill. And Woodie literally have no downsides whatsoever. I would personally be fine with Current Wilson if klei treated everyone equally but they don't. And I dont blame them. Nobody likes downsides that just makes the game grindier. Still, They could have made his rework locked away with his skill tree, or they could have reworked him post afw/cc to please every type of player there is. Unfortunately they don't care much about him other than slapping his face everywhere. Which is even more obvious when you compare his "rework"to other characters rework. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 2 hours ago, mkemal23 said: Unfortunately they don't care much about him other than slapping his face everywhere. Slapping his face WITH a torch. I really, really hate the fact that Klei ONLY chose torch to be focused on. Again, it's not like Wilson HADN'T used any other light sources. Look at the old DS trailers. He also used a miner hat and a lantern. If Klei is soooooo fixed to make Wilson as this (cringe, cheesy) beacon of light, then make it a Light Sources tree instead. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenBowers Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 If they changed the torch skills to affect all light sources, he'd be boring but fine. Better fuel economy and larger radius on lanterns and mining helmets, maybe campfires too. Its a very basic and not super useful change but at least it would be something. A band aid on a power-crept character. People can campaign for more engaging and fun changes, but i don't think klei will ever do them. I wish they would but like, ive lost faith. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 16 minutes ago, GreenBowers said: ive lost faith yyyyeeeeeppp And Klei remaining silent over this; good, long-time Wilson players' outcry for our favorite character to have more options is NOT GOOD at all. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusuta Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 Everyone looks down on Wilson until it's time to get the Iridescent Gem and no one wants to do the full moon gauntlet to get it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 2 minutes ago, Ryusuta said: Everyone looks down on Wilson until it's time to get the Iridescent Gem and no one wants to do the full moon gauntlet to get it. You still gotta go down the Ruins or fight Dragonfly for said gem. Like, I sure do think it's funny how a regular raid boss counted as a part for the lunar side quest, but ONLY for Wilson. Everyone else gotta do the moonstone event. That's the kind of thing I liked. Would you prefer going down the caves and get a Star Caller's Staff or fight a 27k boss? More options is good. Opening up more bizarre ways to get items is good. But as of now, Klei just being stinky as hell. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusuta Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 5 minutes ago, Anis5240 said: You still gotta go down the Ruins or fight Dragonfly for said gem. TECHNICALLY not true, since Tumbleweeds have an extremely small chance of dropping every kind of gem, but it's definitely more expedient to go into the ruins, for sure. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 Oh God, not another Wilson thread. Stop trying to give him quirks, he is the main character who is also underdog, what do you not understand? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 1 minute ago, Gi-Go said: Oh God, not another Wilson thread THEN don't bother coming here to comment. Everyone here can voice whatever they want, and ALSO can choose to not engage with it. So if you don't have any good points to be added, then scram. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 7 minutes ago, Anis5240 said: Everyone here can voice whatever they want, scram. "If Wilson has a million fans, then I am one of them. If Wilson has ten fans, then I am one of them. If Wilson has only one fan then that is me. If Wilson has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against Wilson, then I am against the world." Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 1 minute ago, Gi-Go said: If Wilson has a million fans, then I am one of them. If Wilson has ten fans, then I am one of them. If Wilson has only one fan then that is me. If Wilson has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against Wilson, then I am against the world People can STILL be critical WITHOUT this mentality. I like Wilson, but I ALSO feel he could have more useful options. PLENTY of people here DO feel the same. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RozeMeteor Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 I really like Wilson, but holy he fails so much at being anything userfull to the first player in my view, willow literally did everthing far better than him even pre skill tree. Shadows ? we got bernie here buddy, winter ? bernie gives light insulation and sanity. Got better ? Good my guy, Willow has one of the easiest acess to shadow gear in the game, not to mention how easy is to use sewing kits or simply craft another one. And the skill tree is anything but userfull for a new player besides beard... i expect maybe a special craft station ? some silly experiments likes the hallowen ones ? nah hold my torch. I hope klei do justice to him when everyone is far better, even wes has a cane from the start to those skilled enought to switch wepons. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-met Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 don't kid yourself, even if he was "good" you still wouldn't play him. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 24 minutes ago, Anis5240 said: People can STILL be critical WITHOUT this mentality. I like Wilson, but I ALSO feel he could have more useful options. PLENTY of people here DO feel the same. And I feel like people's expectations for characters went out of proportion. I was okay with idea of optional buffs before Klei addressed and rejected Wilson's skills rework, but you guys just won't give it up. Everyone got crazy buffs and suddenly Wilson is not good enough? Wilson IS avarage and op is wrong. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anis5240 Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 2 minutes ago, Gi-Go said: you guys just won't give it up What's wrong with NOT GIVING UP??? Is it wrong to voice an ACTUAL CONCERN???? Wilson's skill tree COULD be better. THAT'S what many of us AGREED on. What even is the point of putting out such useless skills YOU know players WON'T EVER choose it??? 90% of long-time Wilson players choose the full transmutation tree, either of the beard perks and storage, then either affinity BECAUSE THAT'S HOW USELESS THE TORCH TREE IS. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkemal23 Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 7 minutes ago, Gi-Go said: And I feel like people's expectations for characters went out of proportion. Nobody expects klei to pull another Maxwell rework for Wilson. Characters can be simple and fun at the same time. 8 minutes ago, Gi-Go said: Everyone got crazy buffs and suddenly Wilson is not good enough? Literally yes. He lost his one unique thing which was having no downsides. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted May 28, 2024 Share Posted May 28, 2024 22 minutes ago, Anis5240 said: 90% of long-time Wilson players choose the full transmutation tree, either of the beard perks and storage, then either affinity BECAUSE THAT'S HOW USELESS THE TORCH TREE IS. Your source is that you made it up. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156388-wilsons-inferiority/#findComment-1717576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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