Make pearl's fishing tasks more consistent

[Popian]

12 hours ago, grm9 said:

they don't work offscreen and just standing there and waiting sucks

Sea Weeds may not but trawlers do. It may be able to save some time on average to make some and rely on tolerable probability and luck, but more consistency would be good too.

[Szczuku]

11 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

grrrr this is the future those darn speedrunners want...

You're trying to be funny but this actually is what's happening.

First speedrunners wanted the cactus flower requirement to be removed, since it meant that you had to wait till summer to get the pearl - something your average player would have no trouble with. Then they complained that the celestial orb doesn't spawn fast enough. And now you have this guy, complaining that the fishing quest is bad ;(

This is very much a "Give a man an inch and he'll take a mile" situation

Why should the devs care about the speedrunners? They are, like, the opposite of the kind of player that Klei needs

Dst devs want players that put irl days into a single world, not a few hours killing all the bosses.

Also...

The last thing this game needs is removing randomness in the name of optimizing the fun out of it

[Catuna_]

11 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

First speedrunners wanted the cactus flower requirement to be removed, since it meant that you had to wait till summer to get the pearl - something your average player would have no trouble with. Then they complained that the celestial orb doesn't spawn fast enough. And now you have this guy, complaining that the fishing quest is bad ;(

people were complaining that they didn't have the orb spawn even though they were well past the first year (or way more), its not a speedrunner thing, klei couldve made it so that its guaranteed to drop by a certain day rather than the implemented changes but they decided to not do that

12 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Why should the devs care about the speedrunners? They are, like, the opposite of the kind of player that Klei needs

Dst devs want players that put irl days into a single world, not a few hours killing all the bosses.

because they're players? they paid for the game too? what's with this gatekeeping? again, orb couldve been made to be guaranteed to drop by a certain day but instead its based off how much you've progressed in the questline elsewhere... cactus flowers were changed for lightbulbs and they added the chair quest that makes getting the pearl earlier a lot more reliable. why are you talking FOR them even though their actions clearly state the opposite of what you're trying to say? klei tries their best to satisfy as much people as they can

15 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

The last thing this game needs is removing randomness in the name of optimizing the fun out of it

making the fishing quest more consistent doesn't eliminate the sheer amount of RNG a good CC rush needs, it just makes it so that there's a little less BS with the pearl and any type of player would benefit, no one has to speedrun anything and doesn't need to but there's no harm in catering to people who want to optimize and do things quickly

[Lovens]

On 5/21/2024 at 8:19 AM, Jakepeng99 said:

Go in the waterlogged for fallounders maybe because they and sweetish fish are the only fish that spawn their in autumn. Figs are also the fastest bait.

I tried this in a couple of recent worlds where I found a waterlogged near her island. It didn't help at all. I spent 1 day doing all her quests by day 16 and only needed fishing to get the pearl. I would then spend 2-3 days sailing in waterlogged looking for any fish (forget fallounders - any at all) but they wouldn't spawn. Finally, got a shoal! Quickly, before I even managed to catch any, spiders come down and start eating. In mad rage I destroyed every single spider and spider nest around waterlogged but none of the leftover fish were heavy. I rowed around more for two days, trying to spot or spawn any others - nothing. I got raided by monkeys twice and they stole all the shells from her junk I fished out earlier. I got fully wet and insane from constantly rowing under the rain I called earlier, and had to warm up /dry off near dwarf stars I put around. Eventually I got bored and returned to land on day 19 after wasting so much time, went back to base and crafted a dapper vest and gave it to her on day 21 for the pearl. Three days wasted for fishing with no luck, after spending so much effort looking for an extra bottle, buying a heavy lure, rowing around, protecting fish from spiders, checking shoals around her island (none were heavy). 

In my next run I just ignored fishing quests all together and went to her island on day 19. I then got the pearl in two days with umbrella and vest on days 20/21 respectively. 

I agree with grm that fishing should be tuned. I would love to do it to get pearl and go for CK before winter if it wasn't so much rng. Giving her a vest takes a second, you just have to be there at the right time. Fishing is terrible: shoals spawn slowly and don't guarantee heavy fish, new shoals won't spawn if there are old ones near so you need to leave her island, fish spoils quickly and you can't feed it like other live creatures in your inventory, and on top of that predators (sharks, spiders, gnarwails, skittersquids and soon apparently otters) will steal and eat your fish, even right out of your hook. It's also quite hard to kill them because they tend to avoid being close to you when they fish. Try to chase a random sqittersquid and they will eat half of the shoal before you manage to kill them. Sharks are glitchy and hard to land a hit on, and the fight is annoying and tedious for anyone without a ranged weapon. Tanking is the only solid option to get in any reasonable amount of damage in a short window you get. To disarm gnarwail you need a boat patch and a food item to trick it into approaching you. Oh and if anything makes you interrupt reeling (being attacked, accidentally misclicking, stupid Wolfgang's transformation stagger) then not only you lose your fishing gear but you also lose the fish forever. it swims away and disappears instead of joining the shoal so you could try to catch it again. 

On a similar topic, l really don't like that causing rain can be so inconsistent. I don't mind crafting telelocator staves to call rain (I use them to teleport back to land from lunar/Pearl's/back to lunar before CC so I can start the fight right after moonstorms) and I use construction amulets on them anyway. It's not hard to get a couple extra purple gems from the ruins and a few extra living logs from the grotto. And later I use shadow manipulator for other things so it's not like I only craft it for one Pearl's task. But once I failed to call the rain after using telelocator staff 16 times! I had 1 leftover and made three new ones at the end of my first summer, and I wanted to make the world wet to do a second CC fight. After I used up all my 4 staves it still hasn't rained. There should be a reasonable amount of uses after which rain would be guaranteed no matter the season. Personally I feel like 5 uses should always be the max. Also: why having a glass rain instantly cancels normal rain even if it just started? Feels quite unfair especially if you spent resources calling it. At the very least, if two types of rain cannot be stacked, then regular rain should resume once the glass one is over. 

[grm9]

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

First speedrunners wanted the cactus flower requirement to be removed, since it meant that you had to wait till summer to get the pearl - something your average player would have no trouble with

did that ruin someone's fun? did someone really want to go to a desert and pick cactus flowers because that's extremely fun and complex? they can for the salad either way

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Then they complained that the celestial orb doesn't spawn fast enough

did that ruin someone's fun? did someone really want to wait for a potentially infinite amount of time to get a rock that you can only use for same stuff that you could've used lunar altars for before it could've even potentially spawned and summoning CC even when they're going through CC questline instead of getting it after 15 or so days at worst or after a potentially infinite amount of time if they aren't if they really want to?

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

They are, like, the opposite of the kind of player that Klei needs

why? why do you think that you know who they want and why would they not want people that play for a lot of time, but in separate worlds?

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Dst devs want players that put irl days into a single world, not a few hours killing all the bosses

speedrunners put a lot of time into routing, practice and attempts, they don't just beat the game in 10 hours after installing it and quit or whatever are you imagining, how does it matter if they play for a lot of time on a world or on multiple worlds?

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

The last thing this game needs is removing randomness in the name of optimizing the fun out of it

how is not getting the fishes for a potentially infinite amount of time remotely fun?

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

And now you have this guy, complaining that the fishing quest is bad

it isn't enjoyable even when playing casually, it's just that you can do other tasks instead of it when you aren't trying to get pearl during 1st autumn which isn't even speedrunning btw, so people are fine with it because they get the option to ignore it's existence and never interact with it

16 hours ago, Gashzer said:

See now we are getting to the real root cause of the problem. 

Klei fixes this and they dont need to change any values at all

21 hours ago, grm9 said:

you can spend an infinite amount of time on doing that and still not get the fishes

[Gashzer]

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

did that ruin someone's fun? did someone really want to go to a desert and pick cactus flowers because that's extremely fun and complex? they can for the salad either way

Gets you to engage with the surface shard during summer. Gave cactus flowers a unique use. Klei wants CC to be more accessible hence the changes to the orb and pearls house items, but they are sacrificing abit of charm in the process. Cactus flowers is a resource that you dont normally have access too so it has abit of mystery about it compared with basic run of the mill lightbulbs.

Again grm9 with every fish shoal you find the odds of coming across a heavy fish increases. A couple new fancy and decorative set pieces or biomes with alot more fish shoals spawning is a more elegant and fun solution than simple number crunching.

Dont give klei boring solutions or they will make boring changes.

[grm9]

8 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Gets you to engage with the surface shard during summer

i always do anyway because caves content is done at that point

8 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Cactus flowers is a resource that you dont normally have access too so it has abit of mystery about it compared with basic run of the mill lightbulbs

what is that even supposed to mean

12 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Gave cactus flowers a unique use

you can still use them for salad task

12 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Klei wants CC to be more accessible hence the changes to the orb and pearls house items, but they are sacrificing abit of charm in the process

there wasn't any, picking cactii and waiting for from 6 days to an infinite amount of time wasn't really fun

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

A couple new fancy and decorative set pieces or biomes with alot more fish shoals spawning is a more elegant and fun solution

it isn't if they're going to spawn in the middle of nowhere without a way to consistently find them

18 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

simple number crunching

i've suggested adding things that don't currently exist, not increasing numbers

19 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Dont give klei boring solutions or they will make boring changes

what you've suggested is worse

[Gi-Go]

I hate Pearl. Doing a bunch of fetch quests for progession against my will? One time is funny, two times is freaking annoying, no? 

OP suggests making fishing quests viable and people are unhappy? Isn't this what the ocean finishing needs? A purpose. 

I would love to skip rain quest and winter quest but getting freaking FIVE heavy fishes or a season fish that I don't even know where and how to spawn is not a good time. Pearl should shut up and except all fish regardless of size, and 3 should be good enough. Seasonal fish should always show up to the fish food bomb. Why make already struggling mechanic completly irredeemable? 

[Guille6785]

9 hours ago, Szczuku said:

First speedrunners wanted the cactus flower requirement to be removed

when the cactus flower requirement was removed I was literally the only active speedrunner this game had

this is legitimately bordering on schizoposting conspiracy theories blaming a group of people you know nothing about for things they had nothing to do with that you simply don't happen to agree with

9 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Why should the devs care about the speedrunners? They are, like, the opposite of the kind of player that Klei needs

imagine saying this about literally any other type of player, I'm glad JoeW allows openly shtting on other people's playstyles as long as they happen to be speedrunners

[Copyafriend]

honestly i dont really GET the speedrunner hate. 

every second post has someone either saying X is bad because speedrunners or X is good but speedrunners are ruining it.

heck a few times guille got personally attacked just because he speedruns.

 

i mean i dont think being a speedrunner makes your opinion any more valid, but sheesh people, your average speedrunner is just really enthusiastic about the game in a different way

[SilverSpoon]

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Then they complained that the celestial orb doesn't spawn fast enough.

Klei dealt with the spawn speed of the celestial sphere.

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

They are, like, the opposite of the kind of player that Klei needs

Hence, this sentence is false.

[Guille6785]

21 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Klei dealt with the spawn speed of the celestial sphere.

Hence, this sentence is false.

To elaborate on this I don't believe speedrunners had anything to do with the celestial orb changes; Klei had said in the rhymes with play livestream for the update that added lunar rifts that they were looking into making the orb spawn more consistently presumably because the entirety of the new content was locked behind an item that was never actually guaranteed to spawn. At the time that this livestream happened (and when the changes were finally implemented) speedrun.com simply allowed players to use a mod to remove the orb requirement. There isn't much reason to believe speedrunners had anything to do with this change, people had been requesting it in general from the moment CC was added

[Szczuku]

2 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

imagine saying this about literally any other type of player

Tbf you really can't without making a fool out of yourself (or at least a bigger one than the one I am making)

The target audience of this game consists of people who are into survival games and people who are into sandbox games. And maybe people that play $5 games on steam with their friends for a week and never touch them again.

Speedrunners will always be just a byproduct of players getting good at the game. Plus, isn't the entire point of speedrunning getting the fastest run with what the game is giving you? Not asking the devs for changes that remove the RNG elements from the run

The changes op proposes wouldn't affect the majority of the playerbase and should therefore be put on the back-burner, at best

[grm9]

44 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

The target audience of this game consists of people who are into survival games and people who are into sandbox games

that clearly doesn't work, people expect baby mode dark souls bosses when playing it and complain after realising that they aren't

44 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Speedrunners will always be just a byproduct of players getting good at the game

no, you don't automatically become a speedrunner after getting good

44 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Not asking the devs for changes that remove the RNG elements from the run

no one likes RNG, especially when it's required for the run, like how orb was and fishing tasks currently are if you do 1st autumn, this thing is also unrelated to speedruns, you don't need to be a speedrunner to do 1st autumn pearl

44 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

The changes op proposes wouldn't affect the majority of the playerbase

they would, they might make people do fishing tasks instead of waiting for spring to get pearl without ever interacting with ocean fishing

[Guille6785]

13 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Plus, isn't the entire point of speedrunning getting the fastest run with what the game is giving you? Not asking the devs for changes that remove the RNG elements from the run

nobody has ever asked klei to remove things just for speedruns

[Porkus]

20 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Speedrunners will always be just a byproduct of players getting good at the game.

Getting good at the game doesn't make you want to spend hours generating worlds and retrying the same thing over and over. 

[flamboyant wolf]

12 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Dst devs want players that put irl days into a single world, not a few hours killing all the bosses.

I feel like speedrunners would, generally, have more hours in the game. I mean, games take time to master, and people often seem to speedrun games they already like, it's not like speedrunners just pick up a game, play it for a few hours and move on, it takes dedication. 

12 hours ago, Szczuku said:

You're trying to be funny but this actually is what's happening.

First speedrunners wanted the cactus flower requirement to be removed, since it meant that you had to wait till summer to get the pearl - something your average player would have no trouble with. Then they complained that the celestial orb doesn't spawn fast enough. And now you have this guy, complaining that the fishing quest is bad ;(

 

 

 

also, what 

[arubaro]

The ocean would feel less empty if schools of fish spawned more often and in bigger numbers than just a couple of schools on screen... also it will help that feeling of going in the ocean, for example in summer, and and not having much to do..atleast we will have the choice of fishing

[Gi-Go]

12 hours ago, Szczuku said:

You're trying to be funny but this actually is what's happening.

First speedrunners wanted the cactus flower requirement to be removed, since it meant that you had to wait till summer to get the pearl - something your average player would have no trouble with. Then they complained that the celestial orb doesn't spawn fast enough. And now you have this guy, complaining that the fishing quest is bad ;(

This is very much a "Give a man an inch and he'll take a mile" situation

Why should the devs care about the speedrunners? They are, like, the opposite of the kind of player that Klei needs

Dst devs want players that put irl days into a single world, not a few hours killing all the bosses.

Also...

The last thing this game needs is removing randomness in the name of optimizing the fun out of it

Stop blaming speedrunners. Say "fast paced players" or "people who don't like to sit around and wait for rng nonsence or pointless limitations".

I'm not a speedrunner, that dosen't mean I want to wait for summer just to do the actual content I'm into. You gotta spend 7+ hours for Summer to even start, dude. What if I want to play as all 18 characters and "beat" the game at least once as each? That's about 27 hours spent on waiting for cactus flowers and nothing else. 

I used to play on klei officials only, and in order to beat* the game I had to wake up in the morning and then play without breaks untill the dawn which was a really stupid thing to do. 

And you're also wrong. Original don't starve was not designed with the idea of surviving past first winter as the game has nothing new to offer. And it was still the case untill very resently, there was nothing to do past year 1 and the only thing you'll get is bearger who isn't event designed to be a boss in dst he is extremely passive and never dispawns, basically a better resource farm for people who want to stick around. The rifts are finally added to give players something to stick around for but they give so little you can't unironically claim this is the content devs want everyone to stick around for. It's very much optional. 

I do both and more. I like to rush and I have megabase. Those can coexist and we have no reason to argue. 

[ChintzyGnat]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

The ocean would feel less empty if schools of fish spawned more often and in bigger numbers than just a couple of schools on screen... also it will help that feeling of going in the ocean, for example in summer, and and not having much to do..atleast we will have the choice of fishing

Fr I always have to put schools of fish on more just for the ocean to feel a bit more alive

[HowlVoid]

On 5/20/2024 at 8:08 AM, Szczuku said:

I'm sorry but why should this be changed just so that 13 people worldwide might try to get the pearl first autumn?

Just get the pearl at a later date

In other words the change would be so small it wouldn't negatively affect anyone? Hmmm

I'm not a speedrunner and I think it would be a cool change. Some of Wormwood's skills are post CC.

[Guille6785]

21 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

In other words the change would be so small it wouldn't negatively affect anyone? Hmmm

I'm not a speedrunners and I think it would be a cool change. Some of Wormwood's skills are post CC.

don't tell them that this would also benefit people getting the pearl on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 10th, and 100th autumn

[arubaro]

54 minutes ago, ChintzyGnat said:

Fr I always have to put schools of fish on more just for the ocean to feel a bit more alive

Same here