New Crab King fight is much worse than current Crab King fight

[_zwb]

23 minutes ago, grm9 said:

at least some way to fight current CK

That's just impossible if they're making a rework like this. It's just as stupid as removing the research points system but keeping an option to revert the change, just remove it all together.

26 minutes ago, grm9 said:

all people

Same vibes as "I'm asking for a friend". Whether those are people are real, I doubt they are the majority of player base.

28 minutes ago, grm9 said:

most people seem to still think that fighting CK with oars is unviable so whatever,

You do know there are claws that completely stop your boat right? I haven't seen anyone killing crab king with that method.

[Cruvimaster]

The question is how many bees will be needed to defeat him even faster.

Gunpowder will also become easier to use as it creates an ice arena.

The fact is, anyone who uses bees will continue using them because it's easier and that ice shield he creates seems to be very easy to neutralize.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Same vibes as "I'm asking for a friend". Whether those are people are real, I doubt they are the majority of player base

do you think that most people would be against claws' hp getting decreased?

4 minutes ago, _zwb said:

That's just impossible if they're making a rework like this. It's just as stupid as removing the research points system but keeping an option to revert the change, just remove it all together

why did they need to replace it in the 1st place tho? it was good, people just kept repeating stuff that others said back when it wasn't because oars were bad, they could've also put it as an another optional boss or idk if the problem was it being required to kill to get to lunar rifts without enabling them through settings

5 minutes ago, _zwb said:

You do know there are claws that completely stop your boat right? I haven't seen anyone killing crab king with that method

i did, there are also multiple videos of people doing that

https://youtu.be/14J6W_SWggc

if you think that that's too hard, do that as wolfgang, since he only needs to hit claws 4 times to kill them, which is why i wanted their hp to get reduced and damage dealt per hit to them to get capped so all characters'll need to hit them X times if they're at least using something that deals 50 damage or more to kill them

[Copyafriend]

grm, its fine to disagree with people and say you dislike the changes, but there's no need to be so rude. additionally, if you are replying to every single comment, then its not much of a thread, just an argument between you and everyone who disagrees with you.

 

you can like the old crab king fight, a lot of us dont, thats no reason to be rude about it though.

 

i personally am optimistic about this new crab king, and they didnt say it would just cycle, it could very well have a third and forth phase that we havent seen.

additionally, "just tanking" the crab arms and tiny crabs might not even work, it could probably be balanced to stunlock the player too much.

but beyond all that, my honest opinion is: the old crab king is just boring. yes he has a lot of "mechanics" but in reality most of the time its just "throw down new boat when old one sinks, avoid being frozen, and freeze if he starts healing" its not easy to do, but honestly theres no threat to the player themselves, the worst thing that could happen is your boat gets sunk. this at least has towers i can either smash or kill (thats fighting with oars like you wanted) i can either avoid the claws or fight them (before they grabbed you immediately, now it feels like i could probably push past them with effort)

 

and who ever said ramming crab king doesnt hurt him anymore? that could be a perfectly viable way for you to fight the new crab king outside of his ice healing phase.

 

as much as you want to go "i already replied to this >:(" you CANT say that you know how the fight will go, you havent played it. you do not know everything about the fight, the second half could become your new favorite fight in all of dont starve. just be patient, they're doing a crab king rework, there's no stopping that now, focus on what YOUD like to see in this new crab king

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Copyafriend said:

there's no need to be so rude

quote the stuff that i said that was rude

1 minute ago, Copyafriend said:

the second half

iirc they said that the fight'll just start looping after that

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

focus on what YOUD like to see in this new crab king

returning old CK and reusing rework stuff as additions for it

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

and who ever said ramming crab king doesnt hurt him anymore?

it never did?

3 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

additionally, if you are replying to every single comment, then its not much of a thread, just an argument between you and everyone who disagrees with you

most threads end up being discussions/arguments

3 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

you CANT say that you know how the fight will go, you havent played it

i've seen that you can just kill claws, get onto ice, start holding F, get away after he stops healing and repeat

4 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

it could probably be balanced to stunlock the player too much

no, we've seen that new crabs only attack like once every 5 seconds and if they'll change that, you'll just need minions to keep hitting him while you're killing crabs

5 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

the old crab king is just boring

have you tried fighting him by rowing instead of using ice staves?

6 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

(thats fighting with oars like you wanted)

i meant avoiding claws and his attacks by rowing and you can already do that, not ramming into stuff

7 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

i can either avoid the claws or fight them

you could also previously stay in an area where the least amount of claws reaches you

8 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

freeze if he starts healing

i meant no ice staves

8 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

honestly theres no threat to the player themselves

sinking?

[Cruvimaster]

The Crab King will change and this is an irreversible fact, mainly because it is a majority request from the community together with the reality that almost all players simply use bees to defeat him (they will continue using them if Klei leaves the opening, indeed).

There will be changes in the beta version, but they will be very few. The work itself is already done.

All that's left is to wait and adapt to the new content, taking advantage of the beta to ask for small changes or showing off new cheats to see if the developers will keep them or not.

[Copyafriend]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

quote the stuff that i said that was rude

every post is overly hostile, i'm not commenting back again because its not really a discussion, im not a mod and im not your dad, if you wanna be rude, thats your business, but you ARE being rude by hyperfocusing on the argument and trying to "win" it as if providing a counterargument to every point means anything in this context.

 

its a discussion board, this kind of stuff is what the mods mean when they say people are getting too hostile and argumentative. im calling you out, return the favor if you see me doing it.

[grm9]

Just now, Copyafriend said:

you ARE being rude by hyperfocusing on the argument and trying to "win" it as if providing a counterargument to every point means anything in this context

no, i just want to convince people that old CK was fun because they haven't tried fighting him the fun way and instead kept repeating stuff that other people said years ago back when the fun way didn't work so he doesn't get removed and i can keep having fun when i'm not the host

[Copyafriend]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no, i just want to convince people that old CK was fun because they haven't tried fighting him the fun way and instead kept repeating stuff that other people said years ago back when the fun way didn't work so he doesn't get removed and i can keep having fun when i'm not the host

i mean show me a video, i'll try it when i get home, but this kind of arguing isnt convincing anyone. honestly more than anything it puts peoples back up and makes them want to argue back.

please, show me what you mean by "fighting him by rowing"

[Maxposting]

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i just want to convince people that old CK was fun

fun is incredibly subjective. ck wasn't fun to kill for me.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

please, show me what you mean by "fighting him by rowing"

24 minutes ago, grm9 said:

https://youtu.be/14J6W_SWggc

try it as wolfgang instead of wilson though since killing claws is miserable with how many hits they require without damage multipliers currently

1 minute ago, Maxposting said:

fun is incredibly subjective. ck wasn't fun to kill for me

have you tried fighting him by rowing instead of using ice staves? if you have and didn't like it, that's fine, i'd be curious to hear about why, most people simply never tried though

[_zwb]

27 minutes ago, grm9 said:

do you think that most people would be against claws' hp getting decreased?

No, but they might if it's the only change.

27 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it was good

That's just your opinion you most players think it's bad, so they change it.

28 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i did, there are also multiple videos of people doing that

https://youtu.be/14J6W_SWggc

So instead of crafting a lot of ice staves it's now a lot of boats. Still craft this to win boss...

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, _zwb said:

So instead of crafting a lot of ice staves it's now a lot of boats. Still craft this to win boss...

you don't need nearly as many with a damage multiplier and you get all materials back except an oar if you use wooden boats

3 minutes ago, _zwb said:

No, but they might if it's the only change

probably because they never tried fighting him by rowing and instead keep repeating that you need to use either ice staves and weather pains or bees to kill even though that's misinformation

3 minutes ago, _zwb said:

That's just your opinion you most players think it's bad, so they change it

most people simply keep repeating what others say instead of trying to figure something out on their own so whatever

[Copyafriend]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

have you tried fighting him by rowing instead of using ice staves? if you have and didn't like it, that's fine, i'd be curious to hear about why, most people simply never tried though

it seemed pretty interesting for sure, a lot more dynamic. but im not sure id call it "without ice staves" because i could totally see still freezing him when he try healing while rowing around like that. but the actual gameplay looked fun, definitely more fun than just bringing 20 boats and switching every 2 minutes.

having to use wolfgang for a good time is not ideal, i just dont like switching characters to fight a boss. but i guess i only have to fight crab king once, so maybe i'll make an exception, either way im definitely gonna try it on a free crafting world

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Copyafriend said:

having to use wolfgang for a good time is not ideal

that's why i've suggested making claws require 4 hits to kill as all characters if you deal 50 or more damage per hit

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

but im not sure id call it "without ice staves" because i could totally see still freezing him when he try healing while rowing around like that

i meant that you don't need them

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

either way im definitely gonna try it on a free crafting world

you could also use 4 bee mines and a torch for cancelling heal if you don't want to start holding F at the right time to cancel it by only using a weapon since the window is around 2-3 frames iirc

[Copyafriend]

Just now, grm9 said:

that's why i've suggested making claws require 4 hits to kill as all characters if you deal 50 or more damage per hit

that WOULD be a nice adjustment, but i think they probably will rework it, i'm sorry though, i can tell you're really passionate about this boss. 

 

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i meant that you don't need them

gotcha

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you could also use 4 bee mines and a torch for cancelling heal if you don't want to start holding F at the right time to cancel it by only using a weapon since the window is around 2-3 frames iirc

yeah, plus if im actually dodging the things, im sometimes gonna end up too far away from the crab king to cancel, an ice staff is a nice fallback, but this is good for a no magic or early crab run

[Kevinnator]

When I first challenged Crab King with a group of friends, we didn't know much about the fight but gave people roles. 2 people on paddling duty in case we had to move, 1 person had ice staves in case freezing was needed and the rest on combat duty. It took us several attempts to beat but we beat it and it became the most hated fight of our playthrough, and we fought the tanky slog that is Misery Toadstool. Our main gripes were that the fight was just too punishing for how much attention it required from you.
The claws did too much damage when grabbing the boat (didn't mind the over time damage, it's just that initial grab that deals too much damage on the boat. 3 claws grabbing on at the same time because they happen to spawn right next to you meant more than half of your boat's hp is gone in a second), requiring 1 person to basically be on repair duty the whole fight or we make a bunch of replacement boats (grass rafts were not a thing when we played so replacement boats were costly on wood and the time used gathering wood might as well be used instead on making ice staves to cheese the fight). If you get hit by the freezing attack, the fight's over.

Say "git gud" all you want but this fight is extremely unenjoyable for beginners and the reworked fight looks 1000x more fun for people who don't play this game religiously.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Kevinnator said:

(grass rafts were not a thing when we played so replacement boats were costly on wood and the time used gathering wood might as well be used instead on making ice staves to cheese the fight)

you get all materials back after wooden boats break

7 minutes ago, Kevinnator said:

the reworked fight looks 1000x more fun for people who don't play this game religiously

it looks boring because you'll need to just kill claws, get onto ice, start holding F, get off after heal ends and repeat

7 minutes ago, Kevinnator said:

The claws did too much damage when grabbing the boat

you were supposed to kill them while they're holding that boat and place another boat if current boat's durability is too low

7 minutes ago, Kevinnator said:

Our main gripes were that the fight was just too punishing

so just "boss too hard"?

8 minutes ago, Kevinnator said:

3 claws grabbing on at the same time because they happen to spawn right next to you

they respawn near where they initially spawned so that only happens at the start so you could've just placed another boat after killing them

9 minutes ago, Kevinnator said:

If you get hit by the freezing attack, the fight's over

you could've placed stars near him to unfreeze yourself or just went as far away from him as possible since you can avoid getting frozen that way consistently on wooden boats

[Capybara007]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

get onto ice, start holding F, get off after heal ends and repeat

Man old crab king is so boring, all i had to do was hold f, then use ice staves and weather pains, and hold f, and then do some things and hold f, im so glad they reworked it, because all i had to do is hold f

[PunkShark]

Pretty much what everybody else has been saying. Current Crab king has been a zit on the game's back since it's release. it wasn't liked then and it certainly isn't liked now. The majority absolutely despises this guy and a major rework has been asked for ages. There's no way to go around it. Crab king has been the worst boss in the entire game because he is not fun, he's not fun solo and he's not fun with multiple people.

what's most important here is the fun aspect. AG for example was not fun, and when things aren't fun people are going to find alternative ways to make it less annoying like having it get stuck for easier hits. AG with its rework turned from one of the most boring bosses of the game to one of the more beloved ones.

Crab king is exactly like this. He's too tanky, he's too overstimulating to have fun solo and learning its patterns and he's not at all engaging when fighting him with other people. Using boat mechanics while trying to avoid claws and geysers is incredibly clunky

Quite literally nothing about this guy is well liked, so a rework for most certainly required, start anew and make something that's engaging, fun and fightable.
by everyone.

[Capybara007]

Just now, PunkShark said:

Pretty much what everybody else has been saying. Current Crab king has been a zit on the game's back since it's release. it wasn't liked then and it certainly isn't liked now. The majority absolutely despises this guy and a major rework has been asked for ages. There's no way to go around it. Crab king has been the worst boss in the entire game because he is not fun, he's not fun solo and he's not fun with multiple people.

what's most important here is the fun aspect. AG for example was not fun, and when things aren't fun people are going to find alternative ways to make it less annoying like having it get stuck for easier hits. AG with its rework turned from one of the most boring bosses of the game to one of the more beloved ones.

Crab king is exactly like this. He's too tanky, he's too overstimulating to have fun solo and learning its patterns and he's not at all engaging when fighting him with other people. Using boat mechanics while trying to avoid claws and geysers is incredibly clunky

no no you dont get it you arent playing the game right you sheep, you have to use this specific charatcer with this specific strategy in a test world with commands and then itll be fun

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Capybara007 said:

Man old crab king is so boring, all i had to do was hold f, then use ice staves and weather pains, and hold f, and then do some things and hold f, im so glad they reworked it, because all i had to do is hold f

if you go into full detail,

you start the fight, wait for claws to come, come closer to them so they start their attack, then attack them, then attack CK after they die, then stand still and do nothing while he's making waves, then row a few times to get onto ice, then go to him and start holding F, then, after heal ends, go back onto the boat and repeat,

compare that to starting the fight, possibly rowing around him to trigger all bee mines or place some of them under him, then making sure to either deal enough damage to spawn claws and have him start healing right after he finishes summoning claws anim so you can hold F on him/start holding F at the right time to cancel all heals without bees/weather pains, placing a new boat after he starts casting geysers so they don't spawn under it, attacking claws that grabbed your previous boat from that boat and killing the rest if they're too close for you to get out of their aggro range into an area with less claws and close enough to CK to attack him and during that make sure that you either won't have claws near you and be ready to row or just position yourself far enough to be able to avoid getting frozen if you aren't using a wooden boat and hit him with a torch before going away from freeze if you're using bees for them to get unfrozen quicker and after that continue the fight

[Kevinnator]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you get all materials back after wooden boats break

That's great you get it back, doesn't change the fact that you have to spend time getting the wood.

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you were supposed to kill them while they're holding that boat and place another boat if current boat's durability is too low

Please read what I wrote in brackets, the overtime damage when they're holding the boat is fine and you can usually beat a claw before it gets more than 1 tick of damage in. It's the initial damage from the grab that's a bit too strong.

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so just "boss too hard"?

Nah, still gonna say "boss too punishing". Like I said, you get frozen once and the fight is over. Take Ancient Fuelweaver, you get stunned by it because you let your sanity stay low for too long, you aren't instantly killed for it. Same goes for when Celestial Champion puts you to sleep. Getting stunned/frozen once shouldn't make you lose the fight immediately.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

you have to use this specific charatcer with this specific strategy in a test world with commands and then itll be fun

(it isn't hard enough to require a lot of practice and you wouldn't have needed to use wolfgang if they would've made claws require 4 hits to kill if you're dealing 50 or more damage per hit as any character like how i've suggested and new bosses only have 1 strat for them overall yet no one complains)

5 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

you arent playing the game right

clearly you aren't if you don't like how you are playing

[Mike23Ua]

12 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Man old crab king is so boring, all i had to do was hold f, then use ice staves and weather pains, and hold f, and then do some things and hold f, im so glad they reworked it, because all i had to do is hold f

I mean well yeah your right, the entire fight is just literally paddling around and around and around in a literal circle to avoid geysers shooting up to destroy your boat, while also getting close enough to the completely stationary crab boss to hit it with a Hambat or Darksword.

Rinse repeat until it’s dead.. There was no other strategy or intended method Klei intended for the fight, you just row in a circle get in the hits when the hit window was vunerable, return to rowing in a freaking circle around him.

Even without the Bee Mine cheese that’s literally the entire fight… lol.

You could do this with as little as ONE grass Raft and a Driftwood Oar.

The reworked version actually looks more player involved, from having to dodge Claw swipes, to fighting the tiny crabs that spawn on the icey island, and still getting close to damage the crab king itself to cancel out its healing.