The Hardest DST Challenge Ever Completed

[Uedo]

6 hours ago, Critviscosity said:

I'm the only Magicane that has a Klei forum account, and besides they wouldn't be that interested in talking to you

But nobody is asking to speak to them though :/ 

You have to be more convincing mate, it's giving 'my dad works for nintendo'.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, 00petar00 said:

What does that have to do with what I said here? Dark souls isn't a game made for casuals

that was the point, a game can be hard and popular

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I do but there's still the same issue and I see players fighting bosses together more often than not

because that's faster and less risky, obviously they'll do that if they get the chance

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

If someone is skilled enough to do that why shouldn't this be possible? That is how it should be

that's how it already is except you also need to get a flute from PK and a speedboost for BQ, shrooms/luck for FW, an oar and a boat for CK and nothing for dfly

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

If something is designed for 10 people

what was it designed for is irrelevant to what it ended up being, you can do it solo and it's more fun to do it that way, you can't even have 10 people without mods, there are no rules for fairness and if you mean equal, then nerf players, not bosses

[Uedo]

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

This is actually proving the point that bosses need to be nerfed, you are one of the best DST speedrunners and you are trying to push here as If bosses really aren't unfair, especially ones like DF or BQ that summon minions. I never argued that a player isn't able to kill all bosses even without taking damage but that this can't be imposed on a normal player with 100-200 hours played, at the same time you can't expect players to put in thousands of hours and focus on practicing only bosses and speedruns.

I have thousands of hours played and I never speedrun and while I have gotten decent at fighting bosses, I am nowhere as good as you and I don't want to focus on getting that good at boss fights. I just want to be good enough to be able to kill bosses when I want without much prep, I don't believe I can be as good even If I tried but most players won't have the time or find it as enjoyable as you to focus on this part of the game so much.

Bosses are quite unfair because they are made for multiplayer but speedrunners and some veteran players have adapted to this difficulty and see it as normal, so it shouldn't be changed because it would be boring for a smaller part of the community? I include myself in this group, I only dislike a few bosses but most of them are very fun and If they were nerfed I wouldn't find them as fun but thinking about a bigger picture most players don't have experience or should have to go through what we did to learn these boss fights and to start enjoying them.

 

I agree with what you're saying in principle, like I get it. - Still though, it's a lovely achievement. 

Everyone is aware that the vast majority of the players of DST are not advanced players, or that competent with kiting. I'd probably sit with @Guille6785 though that they don't need much change to be enjoyable. I'm happy to admit, that i've been playing DST since the beginning and it was a very very slow march forward in terms of me improving. 
I'm still not a great player, to randomers who join - I look amazing, I can do so much but i'm just not at the level of some other members who have a much easier time, especially around bosses. 

It might be specific to me, maybe more people disagree that it's fine and would love things to change - but I really appreciated the moment it clicked, felt like progress, endorphins good

[00petar00]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that was the point, a game can be hard and popular

Hard games will always be niche, the reason elden ring is so popular is because it caters to both casual and hardcore players. Casuals play mages and melt bosses while hardcore players use melee and limit themselves.

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because that's faster and less risky, obviously they'll do that if they get the chance

A lot of players that play in groups don't know or don't want to prepare to fight bosses solo, when I play on private community based servers I often get asked by players to help them with a boss even when we aren't basing together.

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that's how it already is except you also need to get a flute from PK and a speedboost for BQ, shrooms/luck for FW, an oar and a boat for CK and nothing for dfly

Again ignoring the difficulty of killing CK with only oar/boat and weapon, DF without walls, shrooms/luck for FW. How do you seriously bring up luck? That only helps my argument.

Only a small percentage of players can kill all of these bosses solo even with all of the tools available to them but the number of people that can do what you say is much smaller.

 

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Hard games will always be niche, the reason elden ring is so popular is because it caters to both casual and hardcore players. Casuals play mages and melt bosses while hardcore players use melee and limit themselves

DST players can also use brightshade staff, nightmare amulet and lazy explorer or just sanity and insanity food

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

A lot of players that play in groups don't know or don't want to prepare to fight bosses solo, when I play on private community based servers I often get asked by players to help them with a boss even when we aren't basing together

some people neither want to learn nor spend a lot of time on preparation and that's fine, we've had cheese for that, and them wanting it to be less risky still applies

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

How do you seriously bring up luck?

killing FW on 0 sanity and hoping that nightmares won't spawn

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Again ignoring the difficulty of killing CK with only oar/boat and weapon, DF without walls, shrooms/luck for FW

that's the point, you can do hard minimal gear strats or spend a lot of time on preparation to be able to use easy strats

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Only a small percentage of players can kill all of these bosses solo

no statistics

[00petar00]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

DST players can also use brightshade staff, nightmare amulet and lazy explorer or just sanity and insanity food

Just because there are tools it doesn't make minion summoning mechanics much better.

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that's the point, you can do hard minimal gear strats or spend a lot of time on preparation to be able to use easy strats

or you can play the game the way it is designed as it says in the name "together" and not have to do either.

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no statistics

It is anecdotal evidence but like I said we can easily hop on random servers together and ask players/watch them kill bosses. You have already agreed that players are having trouble killing bosses though, so I don't see why you bring up statistics when we both have the same experience.

[grm9]

Just now, 00petar00 said:

Just because there are tools it doesn't make minion summoning mechanics much better

it does, it's fun to figure out strats for them and you can kill them skilllessly if you do that

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

or you can play the game the way it is designed as it says in the name "together" and not have to do either

ask them to make fighting bosses with multiple people more fun then

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You have already agreed that players are having trouble killing bosses though

when? i've said that i've only seen 1 player die against BQ on a pub if you exclude people walking into dfly with no armor, i haven't seen anyone have issues when doing FW with brightshade staff

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It is anecdotal evidence but like I said we can easily hop on random servers together and ask players/watch them kill bosses

most people that play on pubs are newbies that don't know anything about the game, you need to count in people playing on private servers and i've already said that there are issues with the community instead of the game

[00petar00]

38 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it does, it's fun to figure out strats for them and you can kill them skilllessly if you do that

How much free time do you think people have? Do you know how many hours does an average gamer play games in a week?

That's without even mentioning that a lot of players don't want to get that good at boss fights.

I am not saying that it isn't fun to some people but that the game is worse for everyone else If DST keeps minion summoning mechanic without any changes.

40 minutes ago, grm9 said:

ask them to make fighting bosses with multiple people more fun then

The idea is to go for both changes for solo play and boss buffs for multiplayer.

41 minutes ago, grm9 said:

when? i've said that i've only seen 1 player die against BQ on a pub if you exclude people walking into dfly with no armor, i haven't seen anyone have issues when doing FW with brightshade staff

You have no idea what you are talking about, most players have problems with bosses and die very often. Someone that is able to kill CC and get brightshade staff is already quite experienced and should be able to do it with weather pain too or it may require a little bit of practice.

My point is that players on average are having hard time with boss fights and this can be seen by connecting to random servers to unless you choose specific server that has only very experienced players playing on it, it is usually endless. Even on endless servers a lot of players use inefficient strategies because they take less skill and have no chance of failure.

46 minutes ago, grm9 said:

most people that play on pubs are newbies that don't know anything about the game, you need to count in people playing on private servers and i've already said that there are issues with the community instead of the game

Most of the players only play on pubs, you need to realize that you and everyone else including me on the forums is an exception.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

How much free time do you think people have?

how is that related to anything? practicing might require a lot of time, but figuring out strats doesn't

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

the game is worse for everyone else If DST keeps minion summoning mechanic without any changes

it isn't, there are many strats that allow you to kill bosses that spawn minions skilllessly

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The idea is to go for both changes for solo play

i don't want that, that'd ruin my fun, make it an off by default setting or whatever or just don't bother because you can install any mods that you want when playing solo because you're the host

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Someone that is able to kill CC and get brightshade staff is already quite experienced

CC isn't harder than werepig or something, it's very easy and cheeses for it exist anyway

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Most of the players only play on pubs

i doubt that, you don't have any statistics and i'd guess that most people play on private servers

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

a lot of players use inefficient strategies because they take less skill and have no chance of failure

what's the problem with that?

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

My point is that players on average are having hard time with boss fights and this can be seen by connecting to random servers

i've only seen someone die against an old boss once on a pub and most people that play on pubs are newbies that don't know anything about the game so trying to measure stuff through them is pointless, i've also already said that there are issues with the community instead of the game

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

it isn't, there are many strats that allow you to kill bosses that spawn minions skilllessly

The methods that allow you to kill minions without skill require a lot of resources so that means that a player that doesn't have time to practice probably doesn't have time to do this.

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

i don't want that, that'd ruin my fun, make it an off by default setting or whatever or just don't bother because you can install any mods that you want when playing solo because you're the host

You keep bringing up your fun as If your enjoyment is more important than majority of players?

You can use mods to make the game more difficult why does it have to be the other way around when you are the minority?

I know you'll bring up statistics again but klei has them and there is a reason no new boss has minions.

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

CC isn't harder than werepig or something, it's very easy and cheeses for it exist anyway

You are ignoring everything else that you are required to do to summon CC, CC is much easier than FW but someone that can summon and kill CC is already an experienced player.

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

i doubt that, you don't have any statistics and i'd guess that most people play on private servers

Anyone can pull up the numbers for this, basically open up the game and search all servers with filters to remove password protected ones and after show password protected servers and just calculate the differance. It is obvious that majority of the players play on pubs and you can't deny it.

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

i've only seen someone die against an old boss once on a pub and most people that play on pubs are newbies that don't know anything about the game so trying to measure stuff through them is pointless, i've also already said that there are issues with the community instead of the game

Sure, to you its a myth that players die to bosses. Everyone is so good at the game, keep living in this fantasy.

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

12 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Uhm, actually, you can summon bee queen with this mod. You just need to hit the hive with gunpowder or something similar and then smack it with a hammer. And you call yourself a pro? 

Can you summon toadstool with the mod?

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Anyone can pull up the numbers for this, basically open up the game and search all servers with filters to remove password protected ones and after show password protected servers and just calculate the differance. It is obvious that majority of the players play on pubs and you can't deny it.

I don't think you can see "friends only", "local only", and "steam group" servers

[Faintly Macabre]

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

bosses not being resource sinks? those aren't even the most optimal strats, some of those are more effective if you get hit

It doesn't prove that though. ~98% of the player base doesn't play anywhere near his level, so what one of the most advanced players on the scene can do doesn't say a lot about what the game is or should be like to everybody else. Not everybody can anim cancel, not everybody has such impeccable timing, not everybody can be that consistent, not everybody has knowledge this intricate, etc. etc. All these things cascade into much longer, more expensive fights for a lot of people. Some of them are cool with that. Some of them aren't as much.

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

wrong, klei are already adding perks for fighting to practically all characters and the argument is that people that don't want to learn can get a lot of stuff and people that want to learn can do minimal gear fights if they want

Bro it literally happened a few posts down from yours in the same topic

3 hours ago, Swiyss said:

nah, I for example play for fun and I just needed to do cc quest 3 times 1 year ago to perfect the whole thing. It is actually not that complicated, it is really a matter of knowledge (which our brains have a lot of space for it, trust me) and muscle memory (which should be acquired 90% atleast the first time you try it unless you have something going on for you, ykwim).

"git gud," and with a little bit of paper thinly-veiled ableism sprinkled in as a treat. The former bit at least is pretty common, and yes, it's very common for people who just don't find these fights fun regardless of their capability to just get bundled with everybody else. Yes, some people sometimes offer advice (or sometimes, to be frank, attempt to bludgeon people half to death with it) but there are plenty of people around whose response is just "skill issue". And sometimes this advice just doesn't do anything to make the things people don't enjoy more enjoyable. Like

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

fight enraged dfly if normal dfly is too boring, do minimal gear FW if normal FW is too boring, figure out a strat for BQ, use torches instead of axes for toad if it's too boring

I find the game's combat just fundamentally uninteresting, and no amount of voluntary handicapping will change that. I know that, because I've played games where I do enjoy challenge runs, like low level Dark Souls playthroughs or rushing Hyrule Castle in BotW with nothing but your funny DLC shirt and a pot lid. But the only reason I enjoyed more challenging runs of those games is because there was something I found compelling about their combat in the first place. I don't want to take a few steps to the right more often in Dfly, I don't want to have even less room for error in Inventory Management As A Boss AFW, and I'm 99% sure torches instead of axes isn't going to make Toadstool any less of a time-wasting loot pinata.

[grm9]

29 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The methods that allow you to kill minions without skill require a lot of resources so that means that a player that doesn't have time to practice probably doesn't have time to do this

cheese, although getting rocks for catapults or bunnymen doesn't require much time, you can very reasonably do that in less than <10 days even if you're new, assuming that you at least know how to get food and what lantern and hammer are

29 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

there is a reason no new boss has minions

because people want bosses that they can do 1st or 2nd try and feel good as if they've achieved something, but they start feeling like a waste of time if you realise that you didn't

29 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You keep bringing up your fun as If your enjoyment is more important than majority of players?

most people simply don't look for more fun and efficient strats, that's an issue with the community, not the game, there are strats that aren't that hard and are fun

29 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You can use mods to make the game more difficult why does it have to be the other way around when you are the minority?

how am i going to have them on every server that i play on just so i can have fun when playing the game? isn't it simpler to have people that don't want to practice use easy and time consuming strats/cheese and people that do fight the boss by using hard and fun strats?

29 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You are ignoring everything else that you are required to do to summon CC

not really, it's just going to ruins but they could've played as wilson, since some people say that he's a newbie character, and got opal by killing dfly once, you don't need much skill to simply do CC questline if there's no limit for in how much time you need to do that, since you can do pearl's questline in 1 trip in spring by just looking at what to bring on the wiki or whatever, there's nothing that tries to kill you on lunar and in archives and CK can be cheesed

29 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Anyone can pull up the numbers for this, basically open up the game and search all servers with filters to remove password protected ones

do friends only and 1 slot servers even show up there?

29 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Sure, to you its a myth that players die to bosses

they do on the 1st try if they know nothing about it ig, or if they're newbies and don't know about pan flute, catapults or expect bosses to be optimal to kill by using only a weapon

18 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Inventory Management As A Boss AFW

just shows how little you know about the strats, you can do FW without swapping items, although you'd ideally do that by only swapping between magi and body armor and optionally a weapon and speedboost

18 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

It doesn't prove that though. ~98% of the player base doesn't play anywhere near his level, so what one of the most advanced players on the scene can do doesn't say a lot about what the game is or should be like to everybody else. Not everybody can anim cancel, not everybody has such impeccable timing, not everybody can be that consistent, not everybody has knowledge this intricate, etc. etc. All these things cascade into much longer, more expensive fights for a lot of people. Some of them are cool with that. Some of them aren't as much

the point is that it's possible if you want to achieve that, otherwise use easy and time consuming strats or cheese

18 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Bro it literally happened a few posts down from yours in the same topic

it doesn't happen often, or at least i don't say that

18 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

I'm 99% sure torches instead of axes isn't going to make Toadstool any less of a time-wasting loot pinata

more fun than spamming weather pains

18 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

I don't want to take a few steps to the right more often in Dfly

preventing flying hits and freezing last lavae after that and stomp attack existing?

18 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

low level Dark Souls playthroughs

i've done that too and imo minimal gear FW is more fun than some souls bosses, even if you exclude obviously bad e.g. deacons, halflight, congregation etc.

[00petar00]

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because people want bosses that they can do 1st or 2nd try and feel good as if they've achieved something, but they start feeling like a waste of time if you realise that you didn't

So basically any boss without minions is considered easy by you.

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

most people simply don't look for more fun and efficient strats, that's an issue with the community, not the game, there are strats that aren't that hard and are fun

You can't blame players for not playing the way you want, they'll enjoy the game in the way they see fit and it is perfectly reasonable and accaptable to do so. How can you police someone on how to play the game and say that their way of playing is incorrect?

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how am i going to have them on every server that i play on just so i can have fun when playing the game? isn't it simpler to have people that don't want to practice use easy and time consuming strats/cheese and people that do fight the boss by using hard and fun strats?

You are the minority, the same can be said for players that want changes. Game should cater to majority of the playerbase.

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

not really, it's just going to ruins but they could've played as wilson, since some people say that he's a newbie character, and got opal by killing dfly once, you don't need much skill to simply do CC questline if there's no limit for in how much time you need to do that, since you can do pearl's questline in 1 trip in spring by just looking at what to bring on the wiki or whatever, there's nothing that tries to kill you on lunar and in archives and CK can be cheesed

Again you bring up knowledge that most players won't know when first killing CC and they won't know the most efficient path. Killing DF, CK and doing everything else in the questline and after all that killing CC isn't something that a new player can do.

12 minutes ago, grm9 said:

do friends only and 1 slot servers even show up there?

I didn't consider that but doing this would still provide some information. 

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

they do on the 1st try if they know nothing about it ig, or if they're newbies and don't know about pan flute, catapults or expect bosses to be optimal to kill by using only a weapon

Players die repeatedly to bosses and it doesn't take them one try to learn.

[grm9]

51 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

So basically any boss without minions is considered easy by you

not necessarily, toad is pretty fun even though it isn't really hard with axes nor does it have minions

51 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You can't blame players for not playing the way you want, they'll enjoy the game in the way they see fit and it is perfectly reasonable and accaptable to do so. How can you police someone on how to play the game and say that their way of playing is incorrect?

i can say that it's wrong because even they don't like it themselves

51 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You are the minority, the same can be said for players that want changes. Game should cater to majority of the playerbase

how would keeping old bosses ruin anyone's fun? you can already use easy strats/cheese for them if you don't like practicing

51 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Again you bring up knowledge that most players won't know when first killing CC and they won't know the most efficient path. Killing DF, CK and doing everything else in the questline and after all that killing CC isn't something that a new player can do

if new means that they hardly know much about the game and aren't going to look for info, then they also probably won't figure out how to summon FW anyway

51 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I didn't consider that but doing this would still provide some information

12044 out of 14676 shown by default, 5985 if only with passwords, assuming that all servers aren't shown by default because they're friends only, that's 71.54599% servers that you can't simply join, and some that you can join are simply for farming skins, now count in 1 slot servers that aren't taken into account

51 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Players die repeatedly to bosses and it doesn't take them one try to learn

they don't need to learn, they need to figure out what strat to use

[00petar00]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

not necessarily, toad is pretty fun even though it isn't really hard with axes nor does it have minions

So basically every boss with bad mechanics for solo play is your favorite, I get it now.

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i can say that it's wrong because even they don't like it themselves

I don't find your way of playing the game fun and like most other bosses except the ones that are your favorites.

Everyone is allowed to play in the way they like and it isn't wrong since this is a sandbox game. You can't say that anyone else is playing the game wrong if they find it fun.

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

they don't need to learn, they need to figure out what strat to use

That's the point, they don't want to use cheese strats but to enjoy a fun boss fight and once they do it they'll think that the boss battle is unfair after learning how much resources they need to use.

The only reason you find these boss fights fun is because you have practiced with rollback and have thousands of hours played, new players don't have that and it will take them much more resources for the same boss fight.

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

12044 out of 14676 shown by default, 5985 if only with passwords, assuming that all servers aren't shown by default because they're friends only, that's 71% servers that you can't simply join, and some that you can join are simply for farming skins, now count in 1 slot servers that aren't taken into account

How is that 71%? You are counting the 2600 servers that aren't shown with the 5985? I Don't even know why these servers aren't shown.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

So basically every boss with bad mechanics for solo play is your favorite, I get it now

"your opinion is objectively bad because i said so"

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't find your way of playing the game fun and like most other bosses except the ones that are your favorites

i meant that they can look for cheese or easy strats, not keep practicing if they don't want to

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You can't say that anyone else is playing the game wrong if they find it fun

that's the point, they don't, they find a strat for a boss, realise that it isn't fun nor efficient and, instead of looking for a better strat, complain about the boss on the forums

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

once they do it they'll think that the boss battle is unfair after learning how much resources they need to use

define unfair, is getting a lot of rocks or hammering a lot of bunnymen houses unfair?

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The only reason you find these boss fights fun is because you have practiced with rollback and have thousands of hours played

no, i've told you multiple times that it's fun to figure out strat for them, which doesn't require skill nor practice

7 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

new players don't have that and it will take them much more resources for the same boss fight

they can play as easy characters e.g. wolfgang, wanda and wormwood to not spend as many resources while keeping fights easy, you'll probably say that it's hard to play as wormwood but if they have issues with BQ, they can start as him, get a bat bat and do BQ as the 1st or 2nd boss if you do AG to get a lot of healing

10 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

How is that 71%? You are counting the 2600 servers that aren't shown with the 5985?

17 minutes ago, grm9 said:

assuming that all servers aren't shown by default because they're friends only

 

[00petar00]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

i meant that they can look for cheese or easy strats, not keep practicing if they don't want to

I don't want to look for cheese or easy strategies but boss fights to be more fun and not require unnecessary amount of skill for solo play and be easy for multiplayer.

This would be selfish of me If I was one of a few players that want changes like this to ruin everyone else's fun but I think that it is the opposite.

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that's the point, they don't, they find a strat for a boss, realise that it isn't fun nor efficient and, instead of looking for a better strat, complain about the boss on the forums

Maybe they don't like the boss mechanic and it doesn't matter which strategy you use?

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

define unfair, is getting a lot of rocks or hammering a lot of bunnymen houses unfair?

Yes when the only reason I have to character swap and build catapults or build bunnymen hutches is to deal with mechanic that is specifically designed for multiplayer.

I should be able to kite and kill the boss or If someone wants to tank it without using too many resources because of minions.

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no, i've told you multiple times that it's fun to figure out strat for them, which doesn't require skill nor practice

In that case now that you have figured out all the starts it isn't fun anymore.

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

they can play as easy characters e.g. wolfgang, wanda and wormwood to not spend as many resources while keeping fights easy, you'll probably say that it's hard to play as wormwood but if they have issues with BQ, they can start as him, get a bat bat and do BQ as the 1st or 2nd boss if you do AG to get a lot of healing

2 of these characters aren't free to play unless you use spools and Wanda isn't easy to get into as a newer player. I don't think that players should be limited to characters to be able to have fun with boss fights.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Yes when the only reason I have to character swap and build catapults or build bunnymen hutches is to deal with mechanic that is specifically designed for multiplayer

what it was designed for doesn't matter at all

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't want to look for cheese or easy strategies but boss fights to be more fun and not require unnecessary amount of skill for solo play and be easy for multiplayer

just say that you want things to become easier because you don't like hard things, and there already are ways to kill them easily, get better and do minimal gear strats or spend a lot of resources, where'd be the skill, fun and things to improve at if every newbie would've been able to do FW day 5 if they simply would've wanted to because they can do the fights 1st try?

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Maybe they don't like the boss mechanic and it doesn't matter which strategy you use?

unlikely, most people that complain only tried the 1st strat that they found

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

This would be selfish of me If I was one of a few players that want changes like this to ruin everyone else's fun but I think that it is the opposite

you can already practically skip the boss by using cheese/easy strats, you don't even need to kill BQ/toad/dfly for rifts so consider that an optional way to trade resources for their loot

8 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I should be able to kite and kill the boss or If someone wants to tank it without using too many resources because of minions

no you shouldn't, there'd be no reason for must fun strats to exist if you could simply keep walking backwards/to the side to dodge and kill the boss, bwrap, beans and BQ crown aren't worth that little

9 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

In that case now that you have figured out all the starts it isn't fun anymore

the game's getting updated and there are still routes for runs and testing the strats by playing and doing fights that are also fun to execute e.g. FW

10 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

2 of these characters aren't free to play unless you use spools and Wanda isn't easy to get into as a newer player

all of them work though, so just use wolfgang in that case, wigfrid also works ig now that she has the spear that you can use instead of lazy explorer and weather pain to make the fight easy

11 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't think that players should be limited to characters to be able to have fun with boss fights

they aren't, all characters can use flute and bunnymen and most have own strats e.g. abigail, bramble husk, shadow prison, scare song etc.

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

Can you summon toadstool with the mod?

Yes, just use 3 slurtle slimes 

[00petar00]

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what it was designed for doesn't matter at all

it does

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

just say that you want things to become easier because you don't like hard things, and there already are ways to kill them easily, get better and do minimal gear strats or spend a lot of resources, where'd be the skill, fun and things to improve at if every newbie would've been able to do FW day 5 if they simply would've wanted to because they can do the fights 1st try?

I don't mind the good kind of difficulty and find FW a decent boss even though I'd make some small changes. What I don't like is mainly minion summoning mechanic.

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no you shouldn't, there'd be no reason for must fun strats to exist if you could simply keep walking backwards/to the side to dodge and kill the boss, bwrap, beans and BQ crown aren't worth that little

So it is up to you to decide what I am worth getting If BQ doesn't summon minions? Most of the fun goes out of the window when I have to use specific strat that other players that don't play alone don't have to use because boss fight was designed for people to play together.

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

all of them work though, so just use wolfgang in that case, wigfrid also works ig now that she has the spear that you can use instead of lazy explorer and weather pain to make the fight easy

This isn't about me, I own all character but that your strategy requiring a specific character and especially the ones aren't available to everyone is not something that can be used as an argument for boss to stay as it is without changes. According to that logic bosses should have double the HP because Wolfgang and Wanda.

Like I have mentioned so many times, I don't like the mechanic I am not saying that I have trouble killing these bosses.

 

[grm9]

Just now, 00petar00 said:

it does

how? what does that change?

Just now, 00petar00 said:

I don't mind the good kind of difficulty and find FW a decent boss even though I'd make some small changes. What I don't like is mainly minion summoning mechanic

there are skilful and efficient strats for all old bosses so idk what are the issues with BQ, dfly and toad if FW is fine, i don't see any issues with minions

1 minute ago, 00petar00 said:

Most of the fun goes out of the window when I have to use specific strat that other players that don't play alone don't have to use because boss fight was designed for people to play together

that's a problem with you, stop thinking about that, why does that matter for you? why do you keep comparing solo to multiplayer? would the fights become better if they'll be as hard in multiplayer as in solo so you don't feel bad or jealous or idk what is that because of it being easier for people playing with others?

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

So it is up to you to decide what I am worth getting If BQ doesn't summon minions?

the point was that that'd also allow you to get bwrap, jellybeans and BQ crown on day 3 1st try

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

This isn't about me, I own all character but that your strategy requiring a specific character and especially ones that aren't free is not something that can be used as an argument for boss to stay as it is without changes. According to that logic bosses should have double the HP because Wolfgang and Wanda

i've already told you that all characters can use bunnymen and flute, if they don't like those then they can use their character's own strat since atm only walter, wilson and wes don't have own BQ strats unless you count using slingshot and speed balloon for speedboost

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Like I have mentioned so many times, I don't like the mechanic I am not saying that I have trouble killing these bosses

why? you can still reasonably deal with it as all characters or skip it if you somehow think that walking to the side thrice to stagger a boss is more fun than figuring out which BQ strat should you use and, in some cases, using it, obviously it'd be ideal if BQ would've been something like FW that's fun to figure out strats for and fight but it's still better than all new bosses 

[00petar00]

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how? what does that change?

It matters when it comes to discussion like these where you are asking for me to explain why I am using the word unfair when something was designed for the purpose of multiplayer but solo players get punished.

5 minutes ago, grm9 said:

there are skilful and efficient strats for all old bosses so idk what are the issues with BQ, dfly and toad if FW is fine, i don't see any issues with minions

FW is a very important boss and it is more acceptable for him to be difficult, another point is that his minions basically have 1 HP and aren't that difficult to deal with as a solo player basically a weather pain takes them out, the bigger problem of the fight is that players are required to juggle so many items. 

I don't like FW summoning woven shadows but this is the least troublesome minion compared to other bosses that I have named that summon minions.

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that's a problem with you, stop thinking about that, why does that matter for you? why do you keep comparing solo to multiplayer? would the fights become better if they'll be as hard in multiplayer as in solo so you don't feel bad or jealous or idk what is that because of it being easier for people playing with others?

Why should I stop thinking about it? Why is it wrong to compare solo and multiplayer especially in the part of the game that matters the most boss fights? If game is made more difficult for me because I am playing the game solo it is completely valid to be annoyed and ask for changes.

12 minutes ago, grm9 said:

the point was that that'd also allow you to get bwrap, jellybeans and BQ crown on day 3 1st try

By rushing BQ and for it to be required of me to use these strats to fight a boss that is made for multiplayer I am using much more time that could be spent on other parts of the game.

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why? you can still reasonably deal with it as all characters or skip it if you somehow think that walking to the side thrice to stagger a boss is more fun than figuring out which BQ strat should you use and, in some cases, using it, obviously it'd be ideal if BQ would've been something like FW that's fun to figure out strats for and fight but it's still better than all new bosses 

I don't like the new bosses as much but I prefer them over BQ, DF and Toadstool even though they are repetitive because at least their mechanics seem to take into consideration single player. Also why do we need to be choose between minion summoning or repetitive boss fights? Why not add new mechanics that are fun?

[Valase]

Oh gee, a guy posted a "speedrun" of a brand new category, I hope that the comments are about people trying their shot at it and giving positive feedback.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, 00petar00 said:

Why should I stop thinking about it? Why is it wrong to compare solo and multiplayer especially in the part of the game that matters the most boss fights? If game is made more difficult for me because I am playing the game solo it is completely valid to be annoyed and ask for changes

it isn't, the reason for why it is the way it is is entirely irrelevant, why do you even care about why is it that way instead of just what could you do about that?

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It matters when it comes to discussion like these where you are asking for me to explain why I am using the word unfair when something was designed for the purpose of multiplayer but solo players get punished

unfair means not by some sort of rules or unequal, bosses can't learn while players can so you'd need to nerf players and idk what rules are there, the reason for why it is that way is entirely irrelevant, would the boss become fair and better if klei would've made it that way because of wanting to make the game harder instead of multiplayer?

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

the bigger problem of the fight is that players are required to juggle so many items.

they aren't, no weather pains fights aren't as hard as they seem

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't like FW summoning woven shadows but this is the least troublesome minion compared to other bosses that I have named that summon minions

there are no issues with minions, why is it even specifically minions?

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

By rushing BQ and for it to be required of me to use these strats to fight a boss that is made for multiplayer I am using much more time that could be spent on other parts of the game

i meant that you'd be able to easily do BQ, dfly and toad during the 1st few days 1st try and get their loot much earlier without learning anything than you can now and it'd be boring to do them if they'd get turned into what you suggest

7 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Also why do we need to be choose between minion summoning or repetitive boss fights? Why not add new mechanics that are fun?

suggest them then, although i'm almost certain that they'll be much more boring than ANR bosses because either there won't be nearly as many strats or there wouldn't even be a way to make fighting them hard and fun

8 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Iat least their mechanics seem to take into consideration single player

ANR bosses' stuff does, they're more fun solo in comparison to multiplayer

4 minutes ago, Valase said:

Oh gee, a guy posted a "speedrun" of a brand new category, I hope that the comments are about people trying their shot at it and giving positive feedback

mention old bosses and people'll start talking about them more than about the 1st post