AETN cooling question.

[Mordaem]

I've been playing ONI for a while, but I have never used an AETN. I recently started a max difficulty run on the radioactive asteroid so I have no access to plastic to help cool hot geysers. However, on the flipped asteroid that it's connected to I have a AETN fairly close to a cool steam vent.

 

My question is can a AETN provide enough cooling to make the water from the cool steam geyser usable or would I need more?

 

I do have 2 other AETNs on the flipped asteroid as well, but they are on the opposite side of the planetoid.

[Alexander Block]

AETN delete 80 kDTU/s heat. Water need 4.179 DTU/g/degree.

When cooling from 110 to 95: 80000/15/4.179~1276 g/sec.

When cooling from 110 to 25: 80000/85/4.179~225 g/sec.

 

[Mordaem]

Thanks for the reply. That actually helps quite a bit. I still haven't uncorked the vent so I haven't analyzed it to see what it's output is, but this information will definitely come in handy with regards to how I make the water usable when I do.

[asurendra]

Cooling water is usually unnecessary. For O2 production its better to cool O2 as its much faster. Plants also can consume hot water without any problem. They care only about gas they are sitting on

[Fistleaf]

Most plants also need cool water to keep their temperature below 30C.

[pnambic]

5 hours ago, Fistleaf said:

Most plants also need cool water to keep their temperature below 30C.

No, plants just need to be kept at an acceptable body temperature. That can be achieved more cheaply by running a cooling loop behind the plants, like so. Turns out, once you have the capability to cool water in bulk, it is no longer reasonable to do it.

[Gurgel]

8 hours ago, pnambic said:

No, plants just need to be kept at an acceptable body temperature. 

I used to think it was the water that goes into them. But it really is just the plant body. Hence make the tiles you plant in the material with the lowest thermal conductivity you have and run a cooling loop though the plant body. That takes quite a bit less cooling than cooling the liquid the plant consumes. 

One question: Do you need to cool the lowest plant tile or can you cool further up?

[pnambic]

On 5/10/2024 at 6:10 PM, Gurgel said:

One question: Do you need to cool the lowest plant tile or can you cool further up?

I never tried cooling a different part of the plant. I think it should work - plants only have one overall body temperature. As long as the farm is halfway contained, I wouldn't expect major differences in efficiency. though.

[blakemw]

On 5/10/2024 at 6:10 PM, Gurgel said:

One question: Do you need to cool the lowest plant tile or can you cool further up?

Plants are debris* for heat exchange purposes, meaning floor plants exchange heat with the tile they are planted on, and their bottommost tile, they don't exchange heat with their upper tiles. Ceiling plants exchange heat with their uppermost tile, and the tile below that as if they were sitting on it (for heat exchange purposes a ceiling plant is "growing on" the gas, not the tile it is planted in). The bottommost tile of a Pinchapeppernut does not exchange heat.

Generally if they are growing in a low TC gas (CO2 or Oxygen) heat exchange with the tile they are growing on is more significant, but if they are growing in high TC cell (Hydrogen, petroleum or something) then the heat exchange with the tile they are growing in is more significant.

As such the best way to cool plants is using a layer of liquid (any really) to couple heat exchange with radiant pipes, the second best way is to cool the farm/hydroponic tiles and the third best way is having radiant pipes behind the plants in gas, the lower tile for floor plants and upper tile for ceiling plants. If the goal is minimizing heat exchange with the hot water in the hydroponics tile, then I think the best heat exchange medium is Ethanol as it minimizes heat exchange with the tile (Gas has a 25x heat exchange multiplier with solids, so Oxygen actually has a TC of 0.6, and CO2 of 0.375. Compare water with 0.609, and ethanol with 0.176 and Ethanol is one of few liquids to be more insulating than gas. Nevertheless, being optimal is of quite small benefit, since the plant is still directly exchanging heat with the tile regardless of the heat exchange medium)

* And by "are debris" I really mean it. A mealwood plant is a 1 kg object made of genetic ooze, while a curative tablet is also a 1 kg object made of genetic ooze. Both exchange heat absolutely identically with their environment.

[wachunga]

4 hours ago, blakemw said:

so Oxygen actually has a TC of 0.6, and CO2 of 0.375.

It's even more than that. Since cell to cell is the geometric mean, the TCs are inside a square root and the x25 bonus "becomes" x625. When interacting with a solid cell, an oxygen cell effectively has a TC of 15(!!!), behaving exactly the same as wolframite (given the same thermal mass).

[Gurgel]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:00 AM, blakemw said:

Plants are debris* for heat exchange purposes, 

[...]

* And by "are debris" I really mean it. A mealwood plant is a 1 kg object made of genetic ooze, while a curative tablet is also a 1 kg object made of genetic ooze. Both exchange heat absolutely identically with their environment.

Thanks, that is exactly the info I was looking for. 

[6Havok9]

On 5/12/2024 at 1:43 PM, wachunga said:

It's even more than that. Since cell to cell is the geometric mean, the TCs are inside a square root and the x25 bonus "becomes" x625. When interacting with a solid cell, an oxygen cell effectively has a TC of 15(!!!), behaving exactly the same as wolframite (given the same thermal mass).

I started using liquid uranium inside steam chambers a while ago. I use uranium ore to make regular, sacrificial wires, or bridges above existing, and meant to exist wires. They melt pretty soon and leave a 25kg immovable puddle.

Thanks to this, this line of insulated ceramic tiles in a contraption of mine, 577 c above it, -245 c below,  is performing exceeding all expectations.

Before, with a chamber full of steam, ceramic temp was about 230 c. I stopped it, built the uranium wires and rebooted it. After some IRL hours, ceramic temp was about 18 c and the aquatuners were much less strained. The temperature is still dropping, while the whole endeavour is requiring less and less aquatuner power.

While all of this could be prevented by adding an extra line of tiles or vacuum.. I just didn't wanna do that!

Liquid uranium is awesome! Thx for mentioning the x25 rule.

[KittenIsAGeek]

On 5/16/2024 at 11:43 AM, 6Havok9 said:

liquid uranium inside steam chambers

How did I manage to never think of that.  Learn something new every day!  Thank you!

[asurendra]

On 5/16/2024 at 11:43 PM, 6Havok9 said:

I started using liquid uranium inside steam chambers a while ago.

Wont different types of liquid in chamber cause mass deletion?

[6Havok9]

8 hours ago, asurendra said:

Wont different types of liquid in chamber cause mass deletion?

They won't. I tested it for 600 cycles. I was really afraid of that bug, but it seems like it has been fixed.

(I just can't find the screenshot, but you can try it in sandbox. A two tall steam chamber, occupied by an immovable liquid in the bottom row won't cause mass deletion)