Slighshot ammo need buffs

[goblinball]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i don't have fun when holding F against a distracted enemy or kiting and dealing less damage per enemy's attack than i could've 

That’s fine, but I and many other ppl don’t care about minmaxxing dps and still enjoy less optimal options 

 

2 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

We need quicker animations when kiting and more steady ways to control his movement while shooting,

Please don’t, I already explained why I wouldn’t like quicker animations before, I’d hate it if the slingshot was made less risky and you could mindlessly shoot enemies and not need to calculate when it’s safe to shoot. Even if the slingshot would be stronger it’d be so much less fun and engaging to use. I think the slingshot could use a buff but the slow animation is it’s main drawback you shouldn’t remove it.

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Gold rounds does dark sword dps verse regular tentacles for easy monster meat for woby and spikes.

It's true. It takes about 13 seconds to kill tentacles as dark sword Wilson or gold round Walter.

Wanda can kill them in 3 seconds tho. 

 

[grm9]

34 minutes ago, goblinball said:

many other ppl

we don't know how many exactly, most people think that walter is bad because slingshot is bad or because a boy scout gaining sanity in forests is too random and that's making the character unplayable and never play as him

34 minutes ago, goblinball said:

don’t care about minmaxxing dps and still enjoy less optimal options 

there just doesn't seem to be a reason to use slingshot instead of melee because you press same buttons at same times when using slingshot and melee and slingshot isn't better when tanking or kiting

Edited April 23 by grm9

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

there just doesn't seem to be a reason to use slingshot instead of melee because you press same buttons at same times when using slingshot and melee and slingshot isn't better when tanking or kiting

Well there must be a reason because this forum has alot of outspoken Walter mains on it lol 

We obviously enjoy Walter as he is. I just don't want Klei being lazy and giving straight up dps increase to the slingshot.

A couple ways they could buff the slingshot without breaking balance would be to introduce new slingshot types that have durability. My ideas are:

The Lazy Slinger.

Recipe: 1x slingshot, 1x living log and 2x orange gem. Craftable at ancient science station.

Function: Using the power of the orange gems it instant reloads therefore has the same attack speed as melee weapons however to balance this it only has 600 durability (enough for 10 stacks of ammo) before breaking and no longer can hit stun mobs.

The Double Trouble:

Recipe: 1x slingshot, 1x thulecite and 2x green gem. Also craftable at ancient science station.

Function: Using power of the green gems it fires 2 rounds simultaneously for the price of one. Effectively double damage but same attack speed as regular slingshot. 600 durability but can still hit stun mobs. Stronger of the two slingshots but also more expensive needing the very useful green gems. Also triggers enlightened crown twice per shot and triggers thulecite round shadow tentacles twice and doubles ice round freeze strength.

 

Edited April 23 by Gashzer

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Well there must be a reason because this forum has alot of outspoken Walter mains on it lol

i've only seen like 3-4 and i bet that most people play as walter either because of cheese or woby

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

The Lazy Slinger.

Recipe: 1x slingshot, 1x living log and 2x orange gem. Craftable at ancient science station.

Function: Using the power of the orange gems it instant reloads therefore has the same attack speed as melee weapons however to balance this it only has 600 durability (enough for 10 stacks of ammo) before breaking and no longer can hit stun mobs.

The Double Trouble:

Recipe: 1x slingshot, 1x thulecite and 2x green gem. Also craftable at ancient science station.

Function: Using power of the green gems it fires 2 rounds simultaneously for the price of one. Effectively double damage but same attack speed as regular slingshot. 600 durability but can still hit stun mobs. Stronger of the two slingshots but also more expensive needing the very useful green gems. Also triggers enlightened crown twice per shot

it'd still suck in comparison to melee because of requiring you to waste much more time on preparation and being less fun to use than melee when fighting bosses

[Gi-Go]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Ice rounds can one shot freeze clockworks to more easily divide and conquer them and you can carry up to 6 slots of ice staffs per one slot of ice rounds which justifies me carrying them around. One ice staff isnt worth carrying around but 6 for 1 definitely is.

It's a very good point. Carrying the power of 6 ice staffs in one slot can create opportunities. Plus, freeze rounds don't trigger other clockworks unlike ice staff, meaning you can pull a sneaky one and mine statues/craft relics without fighting anyone. What really holds them back in ruins however, is that you have to craft a magic station first, which is why I don't use either ice staff or freeze rounds. 

Are there other scenarios you use ice rounds in? 

[Gashzer]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

 

it'd still suck in comparison to melee because of requiring you to waste much more time on preparation and being less fun to use than melee when fighting bosses

Yeah prep, in exchange for easy boss fights? Thats standard DST gameplay right there.

Some people will enjoy that even if you dont. There has to be some sort of cost to buffing the slingshot. Cant just be "get this skill for 30% increase in fire speed" how boring is that?

7 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

It's a very good point. Carrying the power of 6 ice staffs in one slot can create opportunities. Plus, freeze rounds don't trigger other clockworks unlike ice staff, meaning you can pull a sneaky one and mine statues/craft relics without fighting anyone. What really holds them back in ruins however, is that you have to craft a magic station first, which is why I don't use either ice staff or freeze rounds. 

Are there other scenarios you use ice rounds in? 

Crab king, freeze varglings or vargs to allow time for me to kill the hounds they summoned. But yeah i use them mostly for ruins.

It is annoying to need a magic station first. Maybe they should require alchemy engine to separate them abit from ice staffs. 

Edited April 23 by Gashzer

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Yeah prep, in exchange for easy boss fights? Thats standard DST gameplay right there

it is, but people that want to make playing the game easier are unlikely to play as a character that loses sanity after getting hit

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Some people will enjoy that even if you dont. There has to be some sort of cost to buffing the slingshot. Cant just be "get this skill for "30% increase in fire speed" how boring is that?

it'd be fine if ammos would just become better or they'd add new ammo that'd be better e.g. deal 75 or more damage for 2 shotting hounds and 4 shotting crawling horrors

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

It is annoying to need a magic station first. Maybe they should require alchemy engine to separate them abit from ice staffs 

or just make them not require anything, similarly to wolfgang's ice dumbbell 

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

it is, but people that want to make playing the game easier are unlikely to play as a character that loses sanity after getting hit

Dunno i myself like a nice grind to reward ratio. If i have to explore the ruins to craft the double trouble which halfs the amount of time and ammo needed to kill a boss, i will get a wee kick of satisfaction for my efforts to obtain it. 

To be honest, i feel Walter was Klei's first attempt to make Wanda. He seems like he was designed for pro players mostly not noobs. Inventory slots and movement speed are the two most important things other than damage for experienced players. Walter has 2 out of the 3. Experienced players benefit from his lack of sanity drain more than they get punished by his sanity loss on hit.

Walter is a glass cannon but instead of a cannon hes got a woby backpack.

A glass backpack you might say... 

[grm9]

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Dunno i myself like a nice grind to reward ratio. If i have to explore the ruins to craft the double trouble which halfs the amount of time and ammo needed to kill a boss, i will get a wee kick of satisfaction for my efforts to obtain it

why would you do that if you could kill the boss normally instead, since that'd require spending less time on preparation and fighting and be more fun to do than getting a lot of stuff for being able to hold F? do you also use gunpowder?

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

To be honest, i feel Walter was Klei's first attempt to make Wanda. He seems like he was designed for pro players mostly not noobs. Inventory slots and movement speed are the two most important things other than damage for experienced players. Walter has 2 out of the 3. Experienced players benefit from his lack of sanity drain more than they get punished by his sanity loss on hit

wanda isn't a glass cannon, you need to get hit by FW 7 times before dying when old and if you think that walter is for people that are good at the game, what's the point of him having slingshot, considering that it's only useful for people that aren't good at the game?

Edited April 23 by grm9

[benfroyobro9381]

Honestly the safety isn't worth the tradeoff in dps and time. DST has tankier bosses anyways so fights with Walter feel drawn out. If anything you're forced to play safely since there's no reward to playing up close, giving Walter a really low skill ceiling, or lower than it could be. Also, other characters can just use decent armor and healing to play with a lot of security while not taking twice the time. 

1 minute ago, benfroyobro9381 said:

Honestly the safety isn't worth the tradeoff in dps and time. DST has tankier bosses anyways so fights with Walter feel drawn out. If anything you're forced to play safely since there's no reward to playing up close, giving Walter a really low skill ceiling, or lower than it could be. Also, other characters can just use decent armor and healing to play with a lot of security while not taking twice the time. 

There also isn't enough utility in the slingshot to justify the dps. Ice rounds, shadow tentacles, and poop rounds are too niche. Also the dps should just be raised since lower dps characters in this game doesn't necessarily mean more skilled or harder(but it does), it just feels like more resources and longer fights. And Walter already has a lower dps than the characters with -25% damage with decent mid-early game items. 

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

why would you do that if you could kill the boss normally instead, since that'd require spending less time on preparation and fighting and be more fun to do than getting a lot of stuff for being able to hold F? do you also use gunpowder?

We can all kill bosses normally, no noobs on this forum .

Its just fun to do it a different way. Ruins has all you need for thulecite rounds and the double trouble. So u can come straight back up with a thulecite club/mag to kill bee queen. Worth it for Walter players.

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

wanda isn't a glass cannon, you need to get hit by FW 7 times before dying when old 

Wanda is a glass cannon compared to the rest of the roster. Wolfgang with marble suit can get hit 40 times before dying. 7 hits is definitely glass cannon territory and thats using the strongest defence armour in the game. 

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

if you think that walter is for people that are good at the game, what's the point of him having slingshot, considering that it's only useful for people that aren't good at the game?

It does exactly what it needs to do as a niche support tool. But you are right, Slingshot is a side perk.

Big woby and wobys inventory is the real reason experienced players use Walter. Woby has always been Walter main and best perk.

[grm9]

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Its just fun to do it a different way

figuring out that you can use slingshot doesn't require much thought and isn't hard to do so it isn't fun imo 

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wanda is a glass cannon compared to the rest of the roster. Wolfgang with marble suit can get hit 40 times before dying. 7 hits is definitely glass cannon territory and thats using the strongest defence armour in the game

she gets less disadvantages from using it and that still isn't a glass cannon, another character being able to tank an infinite amount of hits won't make a character that can tank 100 hits a glass cannon

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

It does exactly what it needs to do as a niche support tool. But you are right, Slingshot is a side perk.

Big woby and wobys inventory is the real reason experienced players use Walter. Woby has always been Walter main and best perk

the point was that it's nearly worthless, since if you're good at the game, you're probably only going to use it against monkeys that didn't stop following you after you got into ruins 

Edited April 23 by grm9

[Gashzer]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

figuring out that you can use slingshot doesn't require much thought and isn't hard to do so it isn't fun imo 

But adding the new slingshot crafts, the lazy flinger and the double trouble will reward experienced walter players with alot more boss viable full ranged combat with reduced need to grind ammo. Which is the main reason people have issue with the slingshot atm... its too hard to amass rounds.

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

she gets less disadvantages from using it and that still isn't a glass cannon, another character being able to tank an infinite amount of hits won't make a character that can tank 100 hits a glass cannon

Yeah it does make her a glass cannon.... sorry you are just straight up wrong. Thats like saying if i give wes 2 bone armours, brightshade sword and helm hes just as strong as any character for combat as his 0.75x damage and low hp dont mean anything...

 

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

But adding the new slingshot crafts, the lazy flinger and the double trouble will reward experienced walter players with alot more boss viable full ranged combat with reduced need to grind ammo. Which is the main reason people have issue with the slingshot atm... its too hard to amass rounds

the issue isn't getting the ammo, but killing bosses using slingshot requiring a lot of time and being boring 

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Yeah it does make her a glass cannon.... sorry you are just straight up wrong. Thats like saying if i give wes 2 bone armours, brightshade sword and helm hes just as strong as any character for combat as his 0.75x damage and low hp dont mean anything...

max hp is irrelevant because healing is nearly instant, healing can fail as wanda but that can't happen against e.g. FW because there's more than enough time to heal and walk away after getting hit, wanda also has passive healing unlike everyone else except wormwood with the perk that makes him regen 1.5 hp per 30 seconds iirc in comparison to wanda getting 5 hp per 30 seconds per clock

[skile]

As someone who played Walter for quite a while, and went through 50 stages of grief, coping till my last breath, it saddens me to admit that slingshot, as it is right now, blows. 

An expensive, slow, low damage weapon just doesn't quite cut it in the game, where bosses have thousands of hp and many enemies come in groups/hordes. 

Like, really, Willow's flamethrower and shadow missiles win in both cost and damage, with one dealing with hordes well, and the other getting you nice quick burst dmg. I really doubt that the game will explode if Walter gets to use one of his main perks some more. 

[Gashzer]

54 minutes ago, grm9 said:

the issue isn't getting the ammo, but killing bosses using slingshot requiring a lot of time and being boring 

Well both my new slingshot suggestions help to solve that problem 

55 minutes ago, grm9 said:

max hp is irrelevant because healing is nearly instant, healing can fail as wanda but that can't happen against e.g. FW because there's more than enough time to heal and walk away after getting hit, wanda also has passive healing unlike everyone else except wormwood with the perk that makes him regen 1.5 hp per 30 seconds iirc in comparison to wanda getting 5 hp per 30 seconds per clock

Max hp is relevant because wolfgang with marble suit can kill alot of bosses without ever needing to heal. After the fight you can use boss inappropiate ways to heal like tent/siesta giving you some extra options. The minute it takes to heal to full hp again i can run off an get some snacks or do irl stuff.

Also larger max hp allows abit of a safety net incase your last armour breaks and you get a hit by a rogue terrorbeak or something. Mistakes do happen. 

46 minutes ago, skile said:

Like, really, Willow's flamethrower and shadow missiles win in both cost and damage, with one dealing with hordes well, and the other getting you nice quick burst dmg. I really doubt that the game will explode if Walter gets to use one of his main perks some more. 

Giant slingshot for big woby. Fires powerful giant rounds with increased dps.

I think we all need to give more constructive feedback and suggestions other than "slingshot bad make good please"

[grm9]

27 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Well both my new slingshot suggestions help to solve that problem

still boring 

27 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Max hp is relevant because wolfgang with marble suit can kill alot of bosses without ever needing to heal. After the fight you can use boss inappropiate ways to heal like tent/siesta giving you some extra options. The minute it takes to heal to full hp again i can run off an get some snacks or do irl stuff.

Also larger max hp allows abit of a safety net incase your last armour breaks and you get a hit by a rogue terrorbeak or something. Mistakes do happen

it's just sleeping and getting stuff that you can use to heal during a fight isn't hard, just dig up blue shrooms, just always have at least 2 armors or use beefalo

29 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Giant slingshot for big woby. Fires powerful giant rounds with increased dps.

I think we all need to give more constructive feedback and suggestions other than "slingshot bad make good please"

forcing people to use something that's already beneficial to use with slingshot is pointless

[Gashzer]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

forcing people to use something that's already beneficial to use with slingshot is pointless

Big woby needs a unique strength over being replaced by a beefalo. It would be really bad character design by klei if they didnt.

Edited April 23 by Gashzer

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, goblinball said:

That’s fine, but I and many other ppl don’t care about minmaxxing dps and still enjoy less optimal options 

 

Please don’t, I already explained why I wouldn’t like quicker animations before, I’d hate it if the slingshot was made less risky and you could mindlessly shoot enemies and not need to calculate when it’s safe to shoot. Even if the slingshot would be stronger it’d be so much less fun and engaging to use. I think the slingshot could use a buff but the slow animation is it’s main drawback you shouldn’t remove it.

The problem with it not being stronger is it ends up feeling useless which is also not fun. It fails in basically every aspect when it comes to utility it's not about being optimal it’s about having a use beyond role-playing. Heck if people didn't care they wouldn't have wanted refreshes, skill trees, or character revisits in general.

[grm9]

10 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Big woby needs a unique strength over being replaced by a beefalo. It would be really bad character design by klei if they didnt

the advantage is that it's much better than beefalo during early game because it doesn't buck you off and you need to feed it more rarely

[Gashzer]

Just now, grm9 said:

the advantage is that it's much better than beefalo during early game because it doesn't buck you off and you need to feed it more rarely

Ok but you know the way everyone complained about wolfgang losing power due to planar weapons even tho his damage with regular weapons is still fantastic for 90% of the game but klei listened and gave him skills to buff planar weapons?

Yeah i want that for big woby. I want her to be competitive in the early, mid and late game against a beefalo.

[grm9]

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Ok but you know the way everyone complained about wolfgang losing power due to planar weapons even tho his damage with regular weapons is still fantastic for 90% of the game but klei listened and gave him skills to buff planar weapons?

Yeah i want that for big woby. I want her to be competitive in the early, mid and late game against a beefalo

slingshot perks either wouldn't change that or make walter's slingshot useless

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Big woby needs a unique strength over being replaced by a beefalo. It would be really bad character design by klei if they didnt.

It would likely just need to be things she can do outside of being a mount as unless they make a whole new mechanic or ignore her established lore there's not too much more they can do with her being a mount outside of making her faster

[Gashzer]

51 minutes ago, grm9 said:

slingshot perks either wouldn't change that or make walter's slingshot useless

Combining both an upgraded slingshot with big woby is a way to buff ranged combat for Walter and ensures woby doesn't become obsolete. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

Do you have your own ideas for Walters skilltree?

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It would likely just need to be things she can do outside of being a mount as unless they make a whole new mechanic or ignore her established lore there's not too much more they can do with her being a mount outside of making her faster

Walter using big woby as a mount is a massive lore point which makes up alot of his short. Klei needs to honour the thematics between Walter and woby. 

Wigfrid getting beefalo skills fits her thematically as a valkyrie with a noble steed. Beefalo skills fit no other character even if you could argue that an ornery beefalo is wasted on her.

Skills to buff small woby would be nice ofc.