Woodie cinematic and transformation between Wereforms

[Picklesaurus]

I have been playing Woodie lately and I have noticed that by the time rift content is online I almost don't use his wereforms anymore, especially Weregoose and Werebeaver, Weremoose I still use against horde encounters like hounds, but it also mostly loses its place to brightshade gear. It is quite disappointing, it feels like he loses most of his identity in a post rift/late world. 

Something I have though since I saw his refresh cinematic is the possibility of transforming between wereforms, it would be cool if Woodie had a post rift Kitschy Idol that allowed him to transform between wereforms like he does in his cinematic!

Woodie's refresh cinematic:

Spoiler

I made a rough draft of how transforming between wereforms could work:


You would have 3 "inventory" slots for the wereforms that you could select to change into the desired transformation just like you would do in a normal inventory when you want to use/equip an item, the transformation animation would be a bit quicker and they would all share the same Weremeeter. The lucy axe button would be used to quickly drain the weremeeter to turn back into Woodie - the lucy button just feels like a nice touch, showing his advancements on dealing with the wereforms instead of standing still to turn back into woodie like he would do in a pre-rift world.

[grm9]

that wouldn't help because idk what'd you use that for, instead they could make werebeaver able to access own inventory and pick up items, possibly with a lazy forager effect or drops from trees getting automatically put into his inventory and goose could be able to fast travel to anywhere on the map, possibly draining entire weremeter or being off by 10-25 tiles or so if people think that that'd outclass wortox and wanda, atm they're simply not worth using even before rifts because maxwell, bearger and reanimated skeleton are better than werebeaver and beefalo is better than goose, maybe also make goose faster than glossamer saddle rider beefalo since all characters can use it anytime for an infinite amount of time after taming it unlike goose

[Jakepeng99]

Cool, but revert the lucy button thing. 

[Frosty_Mentos]

Anymore Woodie reworks and changes and Klei will lose it, I tell you.

[MadMatt]

Transforming between Wereforms really doesn't do anything for the viability of any of them. It'd be maybe somewhat kind of not really useful against Toadstool and that's it. Being able to detransform at will would be immensely useful though, but I feel it fits better mechanically and thematically as apart of the Lunar Affinity rather than baked into his kit.

The Moose is in a good position after the skill tree given how useful it is in any situation where you have scarcity, particularly in team settings, but Beaver and Goose fall behind too quickly for what little they offer.

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

He is mostly early game character, i agree. But his early game is pretty strong.
- he has access to cane and armor in the first few seconds you join the world
- he is best at scouting the ocean (maybe even at rushing ruins?)
- one of the least needy character in terms of preparation for a fight

Personally, i love him even in lategame, but that's because i am weird and i don't use lategame items.
I'm a strong proponent of him being able to wear any body slot in the wereforms though. Armor would be ignored, but not its effects.

[Picklesaurus]

7 hours ago, MadMatt said:

The Moose is in a good position after the skill tree given how useful it is in any situation where you have scarcity, particularly in team settings, but Beaver and Goose fall behind too quickly for what little they offer.

I want to get something out of my heart after playing Woodie in both a solo and a duo world until getting to planar content and killing the new planar bosses: to me Moose feels good on pre rift content but on post rift content I look at him with disappointment and sadness. I don't like how planar damage was implement in Moose, having all his planar damage be on a third hit that resets to a normal punch if you can't get it in makes it really unconfortable, awkward and unreliable both for his damage and also for applying stun states that depends on dealing planar damage.

Non aligned mastered Weremoose damage to non planar enemies = 59,5 + 59,5 + 136  =  255 dmg. DPS = 255/0,533x3 = 159 DPS
Non aligned mastered Weremoose damage to planar enemies = 37,5 + 37,5 + 147 =  222 dmg. DPS  =  222/0,533X3 =  138 DPS
(0,533 is Moose atk speed)

What makes me feel bad about this is not the overall drop of his damage but how backloaded it becomes when dealing with rift content. You go from your 2 first hits dealing about half of your total damage on non planar enemies - while the smash deals the other half of the damage  - to the 2 first hits dealing only 33% of the total damage while the third hit is responsible for 66% of your total damage on planar enemies. This means that wheenever you can't get in the third hit on a planar enemy you lose at least 66% of your total damage for that missed combo rotation. Hitting for 37,5 on Moose slower normal hits is the equivalent of human Woodie hitting for 32,7 which means any combo you are unable to finish makes your damage fall to less than pre-rift lance dps. 
 
For comparison this is non aligned woodie damage with britghshade helmet and sword:
 
Non  aligned human form DPS to non aligned non planar enemies =  76/0,466  = 163 DPS
Non aligned human form DPS to lunar planar enemies = 63/0,466 = 135  DPS
Non aligned human form DPS to shadow planar enemies = 69/0,466 = 148 DPS
(0,466 is human form atk speed)

So moose damage is equal* or lower than brightshade gear woodie only if you NEVER miss getting in a third hit on the enemy, if you ever miss - which happens with frequency when using moose - your damage gets brutalized by not getting in the hit that holds 66% of your damage and instead getting reseted to dealing lance level damage with his normal damage punches. Also if you ever get the proper alignment the gap of damage between moose and brightshade gear widens even more in favor of brightshade gear. 

Unreliable damage and unreliable planar stun proc. Moose is the only "planar damage tool" that got implemented this way and with such punishments, all the other planar tools added through gear or skill trees use a system that gives reliable normal damage + planar damage procs that avoids the Moose situation. What makes me sad and disapointed is that this would be easily avoidable if they simply changed Weremoose's mastery normal punch damage to be partially normal damage and partially planar damage like any other planar tool. His normal punches and charge pre-rift deals 59,5 normal damage, changing Mastered weremoose punches to deal 29,5 normal damage + 30 planar would keep his damage the same pre-rift content but make his normal punches and charge deal 51,9 damage to planar enemies, while his damage would still be overall lower post rift, it would make the damage is his combo better distributed, his planar procing ability reliable and the breaking points for his normal punches better than the akward non aligned 37,5 damage it currently is.

Edited April 9 by Picklesaurus

[GimplyGoose]

The Woodie wereforms have their place post rifts. The moose is great at taking out the varg zomboss and the inkblights and shadelings. Your DPS takes a hit compared to post rift content as a moose, but your defenses are still strong. You can also mine the outcrops as werebeaver with the right perks, so there still is reason to transform into a beaver. The goose transformation is mostly good for exploration (early game) so it is natural for that wereform to lose utility post rifts.

[ChintzyGnat]

On 4/8/2024 at 2:13 PM, Frosty_Mentos said:

Anymore Woodie reworks and changes and Klei will lose it, I tell you.

More like forums will lose it...

[Frosty_Mentos]

9 hours ago, ChintzyGnat said:

More like forums will lose it...

Like they haven't yet since I started putting out my posts. Literally here people wanna start conflicts anyway instead of putting two cents.

[ChintzyGnat]

10 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Like they haven't yet since I started putting out my posts. Literally here people wanna start conflicts anyway instead of putting two cents.

I mean people won't always agree but ye some times it's just hostile 

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 hours ago, ChintzyGnat said:

I mean people won't always agree but ye some times it's just hostile 

I'm fine with people disagreeing, if they got no two cents to put then all is fine i can ignore. If they get hostile then it's just fun to make fun of a little xD