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FUELWEAVER DOES NOT NEED A CHANGE


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Fuelweaver. The FINAL boss. Even in consideration to every single "Final" thing that came after Fuelweaver, he remains the final boss. Even with celestial champion in the discussion, the mutant trio and scrappy werepig. Fuelweaver is king. 

FW looks to me to be a design of having multiple players undertake the boss. You can see everywhere. The mind control attack that acts against insane players, however, there's a demand to become insane to be rid of FW's defenses. It makes sense to delegate one insane player and one sane. Also the overwhelming amounts of woven shadows are another thing that seems like a challenge where having numbers seems right at home.

 

Now in spite of all this, emerges a group of players who have the ability to do all this on their own. The best part is, every single thing that was required to compensate for the general lack of teamwork was already in the game. I'm not sure if this was by chance or by design, but it all came together. 

It's one hell of a hurdle. Using Bee queen crown to reverse sanity auras,
weather pain to do away with woven shadows at bulk,
using (Multiple) lazy explorers to get out of the bone snare,
nightmare amulet to attack the condition for invulnerability,
It's a test.
It's a test of game knowledge and juggling items.  To add, you must take advantage as well of the requirement of eating in this game as a means to survive the fight. This boss is the epitome of  Don't Starve Together. 

The new bosses are really great. Truly. They're great. I like them. But none of them are anything like fuelweaver. The new bosses are reminiscent standard bosses you'll find in the souls genre and there isn't anything really wrong with that. This game is allowed to have different flavors of boss battles, but you at Klei have made a boss that condenses the experience of this game to the extreme and when you've achieved this hurdle, you have earned something between this game and yourself as a badge that boasts on the mountaintops
 "Yeah, I'm alright at Don't Starve Together"

And to add, for this method to be undertaken, the death of 
Bee queen
Moose/Goose
Are required and the crafting of:
the entire magic tree
and the conquering of the ruins
are also demanded. You have to experience all the game has to offer in order to do this.

But for those who are less alright at the game, they've figured out methods to overcome this challenge without actually overcoming this challenge. It's a hard fight after all. It's not something where there are save points or a conventional progression to this boss. Once more, this boss is the personification of this game, and this game does not hold your hand. It requires you learning by death and experimentation. Perhaps to some, this is a task that isn't generally one that they're ready for yet, however, I don't believe they're undeserving of everything the death of fuelweaver has to offer. 

This isn't a game about combat after all. This is a game about survival. In a weird way, the whole fuelweaver gauntlet is a test in survival.

 

By changing this boss, I believe that you actually destroy something about this game your team has made so unique in the world of boss battles. There' is nothing like this in other games. It would be a mistake to mess around with something that doesn't require something to be messed around with.

I wouldn't want this boss to go from "Guys, I finally beat Fuelweaver" and the reactions going from "Holy, <Expletive> you're a god at the game" to "So what? Leave me alone. I'm farming potatoes. Say fuelweaver again and I'll tell the admin to ban you"

 

Fuelweaver should not be changed. The fight itself should not be changed. In summary, this boss is quintessential don't starve together. But for those unable to do it, I wouldn't want to gatekeep them from the spoils either.
Let them have cheese - Marie Antoinette

There's a sense of accomplishment and a consistent source of entertainment you've made with fuelweaver. It's a condensed amalgamation of the entire game and whoever enjoys fighting fuelweaver enjoys your game.

That's the skinny of it. 

 

 

 

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I always liked and disliked the fight. I like what it tries to do, but it falls apart with a few things. While I personally don't want the fight to become more similar to the newer boss fights (I don't think Fuelweaver needs a stun/fatigue mechanic), it could use some improvements without changing the essence of the fight. I still think Crab King desperately needs way more help than Fuelweaver, but Fuelweaver is definitely up there with fights that could use some tweaks.

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

Fuelweaver should not be changed. The fight itself should not be changed. In summary, this boss is quintessential don't starve together. But for those unable to do it, I wouldn't want to gatekeep them from the spoils either.
Let them have cheese - Marie Antoinette

Or what needs improvement could be looked into instead of not changing it due to an elitist stance (telling devs to not even attempt to look at something because of "sense of accomplishment" and so says a lot) and telling people to use exploits/cheesing if they can't do it a certain way.

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Answer me this- FuelWeaver is a boss you the player must summon by building its skeleton in a specific location that gives it its power.

So… logic would imply that the further you can kite it away from this location of power, it starts to grow weaker right?

Similar to many boss fights in other games where you’ll beat up a big bad before it runs over and smashes its arm into a fuel cell to recharge and regain some health.

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40 minutes ago, hoxi said:

I always liked and disliked the fight. I like what it tries to do, but it falls apart with a few things. While I personally don't want the fight to become more similar to the newer boss fights (I don't think Fuelweaver needs a stun/fatigue mechanic), it could use some improvements without changing the essence of the fight. I still think Crab King desperately needs way more help than Fuelweaver, but Fuelweaver is definitely up there with fights that could use some tweaks.

Or what needs improvement could be looked into instead of not changing it due to an elitist stance (telling devs to not even attempt to look at something because of "sense of accomplishment" and so says a lot) and telling people to use exploits/cheesing if they can't do it a certain way.

I failed to state this in my original post, but there certainly is a contemporary way to make this boss easier, and that's by beating celestial champion first.

Afterwards, surface rifts start to spawn and you can proceed to craft brightshade weapons, the staff making perhaps the most difficult part of the fight a lot more forgiving. Anything to alleviate the difficulty of the fight should be done outside of the scope of fuelweaver. Not within the fight itself. 

 

And just now, very very recently, the miniature beast, the terminator incarnate, the loud mouth Rowdy Roddy Piperette, Wigfrid has gotten a way to absolutely demolish the fuelweaver fight with 1 weapon. 

Again, any difficulty slider against fuelweaver is more appropriately done outside of changing any aspect of the fight itself. 

I fail to see a significant amount of elitism when I'm championing cheese as to not gatekeep the spoils of the battle.
Hell, I'd introduce more methods to automate the fuelweaver fight if I were in charge, because I understand that not everyone is able to undertake the fight.

If that's elitism, consider me King. 

Where is my crown?

P.S. The cheese I'd add would be to make "Moon guardian pigs" that have planar attack and defense with an affinity to the moon and just let them rip up fuel weaver. That or have a winona craft that allows a saddle to be made where the saddle itself is a ballista  and Winona is the only one able to ride, but without her, it still fires off shots.

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Fuelweaver is actually an excellent boss with a complex mechanism and low health. This boss is the pinnacle of the new dynasty and the ultimate boss of the old Shadow Line.

He really doesn't need any modifications. He is the ultimate interpretation of "death defines adventure". Of course, you can also solve him in other different ways, which is your freedom.

But I want to propose another boss here, which is very difficult but far less interesting than the one with Fuelweaver, and that is Toadstool.

This boss is purely based on health and numerical value. Some people may say that his tree planting skills are very interesting. I can only say that when you need to chop down his tree while causing slight damage to him, then there is no fun at all. So if you want to fix Lureplant, please modify this boss first.

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I think fuelweaver is a respectable and fun fight and I respect it for what it does, but I think it should probably still be tweaked a bit.

Let’s be real here very few ppl have beaten fuelweaver without a guide or some other form of outside help. The fight is very complicated and has alot to learn, and I don’t think a fight basically requiring some sort of guide, especially if you’re solo, is a good thing.

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1 hour ago, zhangsheng said:

This boss is purely based on health and numerical value. Some people may say that his tree planting skills are very interesting. I can only say that when you need to chop down his tree while causing slight damage to him, then there is no fun at all. So if you want to fix Lureplant, please modify this boss first.

I'm not sure where their priorities are currently, but I think it's been enough time that most bosses just straight up need a change or rework like AG. A lot of people's complaints ultimately come back to some of these fights, and while DST has been experimenting with the combat between player/enemy recently, older boss reworks are seemingly deep, deep down in their priority list. 

Each fight should be fun, worthwhile and engaging on every character. BQ/CK/Toad/etc. are just not fun to do the "normal" way if you play someone like Wilson. Of course, I still like the fact that some fights are easier or harder than others depending on the character, but it shouldn't be the case that the difficulty is shifted so drastically that you would rather "cheese" the fight than drain all your resources just because you happen to be playing by yourself with a suboptimal character.

It's a shame too, because the core concept of each of these fights is so iconic at this point, but it just gets completely overshadowed by how annoying and overtuned the bosses are that the fights end up having their reputations muddied. I'm honestly glad they're doing a great job with the combat recently and a lot of characters are getting cool combat aspects like Wigfrid, but these earlier bosses have remained in this awkward state for so long that it just does them so much injustice to keep them this way.

As to the original post, I also agree that FW doesn't really need a change, but some parts of the fight could use a little tweaking to make it more enjoyable IMO, though the other thread has already gone into this mostly.

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In response to what hoxi said, yeah, it came off as elitist. "Don't change the fight because it wouldn't feel accomplishing because it'd be easier" isn't really a good point as to why it shouldn't be changed.

We don't need to discuss cheese here. That goes on another whole different topic of whether one thinks it's okay for a game to have exploits of such nature.

So when you say "dont change the fight cause it's hard, and it should be hard for the sake of excellent combat players' feeling accomplished" and then add "keep the cheese for those who aren't" it doesn't take away the first part sounding elitist.

Fuelweaver is the end of a long quest that requires you to explore the overworld and caves to look for two bosses. THAT quest completion in itself is enough sense of accomplishment in a game that, as you said "is not focused on combat but rather survivavility".

And if we're basing his design on that, yes it makes sense that you'd need all of the things you mention, and know how to keep an organized inventory.

I'm not fond of using hour count as an example, but to me there's no good excuse as to why a +6k hour player that has experienced this game again and again, should be struggling SO MUCH MORE than with other bosses, on a singular fight (end game or not) in a game focused on survival.

To me it's clear that there's something that needs a tweak in the fight, because no other bossfight in the game requires so many different attempts just to get a scuffed kill. Not saying a clean kill, or a kill. It takes many attempts just to get a sloppy kill...

You can advocate against changing the boss itself, but just a simple thing like tweaking shadow aggro on Nightmare amulet use would make a great difference.

Edited by Juanasdf
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The only thing I would like to change in FW is the arena design. I like the fight for how hard it is but those giant pillars are too intrusive and obscure a lot, making me constantly rotate the arena like crazy trying to find a good angle to see what's going on with the boss. They block unseen hands and make it harder to click on them, they make me miss woven shadows when I think none are left, and sometimes I barely can see the boss if I'm close to one. They should either be moved further outside of the arena into the void, or made transparent when the fight starts, or just removed altogether. 

I used to also think that the arena size could be a tiny bit larger, it felt so claustrophobic. But after beating him a fair amount of times (including the new Wigfrid strat) I changed my mind and I think it's just the right size to make the fight challenging. 

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People arguing why the last boss of a whole campaign is not cheesable with stupid flower makes me consider how much they realize how wrong that was in the first place

 

Shouldn't be a thing since the start, took too long to be removed and still has ways to do the same freaking lazy move with spider nests or whatever

It's kinda sad.

Have to agree with OP.

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