When will the shard lags caused by adding caves be fixed?

[Dreadstone]

I have the lag compensation turned on to address this, but honestly, it's not a perfect fix. There's still lag when picking up items with Lazy Forager, and there's still lag when chopping trees with Woodie. You can immediately feel this if you test by opening a world without caves. When can we expect this to be fixed? Playing in a world without caves and experiencing no lag is truly fantastic. It would be great if we could play in a lag-free world even when caves are added in the near future.

[Frashaw27]

I don't think it's really feasible for it to happen. The reason why the adding caves makes the game lag is because your essentially running the two servers side by side, essentially doubling the workload. The only solution I've seen is to make the server flip on and off but that only really works in solo play as the moment 2 people are in different servers, it appears again. So I don't think there is a way to fix it, they'd need to completely rework how the caves function on a fundamental level for it to even be feasible, which seems to be on the ass end of their priorities for both time and cost reasons and also because it would take significant effort for minor pay off.

[Dreadstone]

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

I don't think it's really feasible for it to happen. The reason why the adding caves makes the game lag is because your essentially running the two servers side by side, essentially doubling the workload. The only solution I've seen is to make the server flip on and off but that only really works in solo play as the moment 2 people are in different servers, it appears again. So I don't think there is a way to fix it, they'd need to completely rework how the caves function on a fundamental level for it to even be feasible, which seems to be on the ass end of their priorities for both time and cost reasons and also because it would take significant effort for minor pay off.

It's been over 10 years since this game was released(About 8 years for DST.). I believe some drastic measures are needed, whether it's changing the game engine or whatever. Some users find the lag extremely inconvenient, and even though mods have been made to address it, it's still not a perfect solution. Some users resort to extreme measures like completely removing caves. Additionally, did you know that many people encounter infinite loading bugs when multiple people enter and exit caves simultaneously? This problem, also related to the same shard-related issues, makes playing multiplayer very inconvenient. Furthermore, this issue even negatively affects playing as the paid character Wanda. This is by no means a minor issue and should not be at the bottom of the priority list. As a game that has been loved for over 10 years, it's a task that must be addressed.

P.S. I love this game very much and am deeply grateful to Klei for creating this game.

[arubaro]

If you are the host the lag is really small, turning on lag compensation just makes it way worst

[Faintly Macabre]

1 hour ago, Dreadstone said:

It's been over 10 years since this game was released(About 8 years for DST.). I believe some drastic measures are needed, whether it's changing the game engine or whatever.

It doesn't make any business sense at all to completely rebuild a decade-old game to solve a problem that, while not ideal, can be played around and that many players don't really even know exists.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

1 hour ago, Dreadstone said:

Additionally, did you know that many people encounter infinite loading bugs when multiple people enter and exit caves simultaneously?

I get this bug in single player too. It's terrible.

[Well-met]

DS Alone mod proves klei could do it themselves. Doesnt seem to be a priority tho

[Dreadstone]

6 hours ago, arubaro said:

If you are the host the lag is really small, turning on lag compensation just makes it way worst

I'm not talking about host lag. I mentioned that. If you try hosting a server in a cave and then remove the cave, you will clearly feel the difference. And in this case, turning on lag compensation can be somewhat helpful. It's not exacerbating the situation.

5 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

It doesn't make any business sense at all to completely rebuild a decade-old game to solve a problem that, while not ideal, can be played around and that many players don't really even know exists.

Many players don't know? That's your own perspective. The game has already been stagnant. It means that there are more veteran players, who have been playing for a long time, than new players. Most players are aware of this and are even making efforts to address it by creating mods. Didn't I mention that clearly? Did you read my post properly? Saying there's no business sense at all is nonsense. If it were 10 years ago, I might understand, but it's been a decade already, and I believe it's very much solvable. Moreover, addressing this issue isn't about business; it's a fundamental aspect for the players. You're not the creator. Why inject business perspectives into other players? And if I were the creator, I wouldn't solely view this from a business standpoint. This is a basic right that players can demand from their perspective. If you spend money and can't enjoy a proper game due to lag of game itself, is that really a proper game? Especially one that's been around for a decade? Please study properly the shard-related issues and comment.

[Faintly Macabre]

2 hours ago, Dreadstone said:

Many players don't know? That's your own perspective. The game has already been stagnant. It means that there are more veteran players, who have been playing for a long time, than new players. Most players are aware of this and are even making efforts to address it by creating mods. Didn't I mention that clearly? Did you read my post properly?

Not one bit of what you just said disproves the notion that many players don't know this problem is even a problem. It just proves that many do. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive. Lots of people do, in fact, enjoy the game in spite of the delayed server reaction.

2 hours ago, Dreadstone said:

Saying there's no business sense at all is nonsense. If it were 10 years ago, I might understand, but it's been a decade already, and I believe it's very much solvable. Moreover, addressing this issue isn't about business; it's a fundamental aspect for the players. You're not the creator. Why inject business perspectives into other players? And if I were the creator, I wouldn't solely view this from a business standpoint. This is a basic right that players can demand from their perspective. If you spend money and can't enjoy a proper game due to lag of game itself, is that really a proper game? Especially one that's been around for a decade? Please study properly the shard-related issues and comment.

Everything about developing a product is about business. I inject the business perspective in the hopes that you'll see why this is not likely to happen.

The fact that you're not a creator is why you don't understand that it doesn't make any business sense. You and your family didn't flush the $20 down the toilet after dinner that some people might have paid for the game ten years ago. Having a game with no foibles is not a "basic right," and if every single player demanded tomorrow that the game be rebuilt or they'd stop playing, Klei would probably announce EoS, because a $20 game that's been on sale for 10 years is not making enough money to pay people that need to feed their families to do it. Please study properly like, economics.

[Littlefat1213]

the lag fix will change a lot about the game engine and need long time to test the bugs, it's not the focus of DST now unless klei wanna release DST 2.0.

And author of DS alone seems wanna give up, each subsequent update of game needs to be processed manually, which is very time-consuming and troublesome. Also he need time to complete his studies.

[Dreadstone]

3 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Not one bit of what you just said disproves the notion that many players don't know this problem is even a problem. It just proves that many do. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive. Lots of people do, in fact, enjoy the game in spite of the delayed server reaction.

Everything about developing a product is about business. I inject the business perspective in the hopes that you'll see why this is not likely to happen.

The fact that you're not a creator is why you don't understand that it doesn't make any business sense. You and your family didn't flush the $20 down the toilet after dinner that some people might have paid for the game ten years ago. Having a game with no foibles is not a "basic right," and if every single player demanded tomorrow that the game be rebuilt or they'd stop playing, Klei would probably announce EoS, because a $20 game that's been on sale for 10 years is not making enough money to pay people that need to feed their families to do it. Please study properly like, economics.

I will no longer respond. Your replies are worthless responding to.

7 minutes ago, Littlefat1213 said:

the lag fix will change a lot about the game engine and need long time to test the bugs, it's not the focus of DST now unless klei wanna release DST 2.0.

And author of DS alone seems wanna give up, each subsequent update of game needs to be processed manually, which is very time-consuming and troublesome. Also he need time to complete his studies.

I understand this part as well. However, ten years have passed. I believe it's no longer something that can be overlooked. Many of us, myself included, are not completely satisfied with enjoying the game in its current state. We've paid money for it, and personally, I've bought all the skins. I love this game very much. Therefore, as a long-time gamer, I believe I have the right to demand improvements. It's not a unilateral demand. However, I strongly voiced my opinion on this matter because it greatly affects the basic and fundamental aspects of the game.

I don't want to be interrupted by lag while chopping trees with Woodie. I just want to walk smoothly without any trembling. I don't want the server to crash because of an infinite loading bug when using the Wanda's rift watch or simply entering and exiting caves with other players.

Edited March 20 by Dreadstone

[hoxi]

On 3/19/2024 at 6:59 PM, Well-met said:

DS Alone mod proves klei could do it themselves. Doesnt seem to be a priority tho

No it doesn't, it just proves that, surprise, playing with a single shard active and hosting through the client itself, and not a separate dedicated server instance (which is what playing with caves does), means the host has no input delay. When you play with caves or use a dedicated server, you're basically a local client joining the server like in a lan game and still sending network messages to handle inputs and the like (if this is also the same when hosting a server without caves, correct me, though it wouldn't change much because of the point below).

Also there's a problem with only having one shard active but being able to go in both, which is that the inactive one is, well, inactive. While everything is in sleep mode, timers and other mechanics can still simulate and run, fully disabling all of that isn't an arbitrary thing that every player might want (I'm aware LongUpdate is a thing, but this has some caveats).

 

The best option out there (but definitely not the most simple or easy) is to allow more client authority, since the game is so heavily server-sided even for things that require timing, that, despite being good and secure for public servers, it ends up being bad for private servers where even if people trust other users (or you know, the server user) they could allow more authority and take latency out of the equation.

I spent the last few months working on a mod to attempt to make most instances of the player taking damage client-sided (server still handles it), and while it could be better, due to some stuff can't be changed through mods due to the inherent code structure, it made playing with prediction enabled not a problem anymore, as well as having people from another continent be able to fight against multiple enemies without getting hit when said enemies are nowhere near them.

So it's absolutely possible to have something like that. A more "secure" mode that public servers can opt into, or a less secure mode that trusts clients more (or specific ones) so that they get to have a better experience.

[Dreadstone]

The absence of inconvenience is a misconception among long-time players. Among them, players with low-spec computers are particularly insensitive to such situations, but don't mistake their adaptation as lack of problem. One of the major reasons why this game lacks new players is precisely due to lag. As mentioned earlier, most new players experience the shard lag I mentioned earlier when they first play DST. I've also seen many newbies who realize that removing caves eliminates lag, but then quickly get bored and quit the game. (Certainly, removing caves greatly reduces content.) QOL patches, skill tree patches, endgame patches, all of them are great. However, I hope the most basic and essential issues are resolved quickly. Ten years is by no means a short time. Since Tencent has acquired it, I hope they address this issue.

[Faintly Macabre]

1 hour ago, Dreadstone said:

One of the major reasons why this game lacks new players is precisely due to lag.

No? No. This is not at all a credible claim. I can Google, check reviews on the Steam page, scour the Internet, and there is no evidence that a significant number of people tried this game but quit because it was laggy. At least not in English. If you want to point to a large source of players in other languages claiming this, please do. But the major reason why this game lacks new players is because it's a game that was pretty niche even ten years ago when it was new. 

[Dreadstone]

11 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

No? No. This is not at all a credible claim. I can Google, check reviews on the Steam page, scour the Internet, and there is no evidence that a significant number of people tried this game but quit because it was laggy. At least not in English. If you want to point to a large source of players in other languages claiming this, please do. But the major reason why this game lacks new players is because it's a game that was pretty niche even ten years ago when it was new. 

Could you please stop replying to my comments? I've already mentioned that I'm not getting any response to you. I don't understand why you're so determined to criticize my opinion. Stop pretending to be the Klei's creators. Everyone I've seen around me, including The people who received recommendations for this game from me, had the same experience. And I repeat, stop replying, bothering and harassing me. why you keep coming back for replies, go study or do something productive instead.

Edited March 21 by Dreadstone

[. . .]

They need to make something like Don't Starve Alone in the base game at least as an option for players who want to play by themselves or make it so everybody has to be on one "world" and the host can only travel between worlds taking all the other players with them.

For dedicated server though it wouldn't have this option and always be laggy.