New DST lore Theory.

[Swiyss]

I wanted to create a more recent post on lore, based on new additions to the game.

First of all, I wanted to talk about things besides what we have. The intentions and though process of certain already existent beings and their actions in the constant.

The ancients

A group of crustaceans that lived in their dimension (the constant). Their main focus was survival. They knew that "spiritual" forces existed and worshiped them. While doing so, they recieved strong options to survive (staffs and amulets) and new magic to obtain.

We know that they overused the shadow power and ended up consumed by it. They didn't turn into ghosts, respawned or revived, they simply turned into a permanent shadow state that can be hurt by physical force, and are in a constant state of pain. Their only option is to be agressive towards those who interact with them. That is what happens when you mess with Them (Maxwell took the example).

Before being completely consumed however, they also worshipped the moon. They could transform a yellow gem into an iridescent one, and use the power of the moon in this gem to generate strong spiritual allies to aid them in wars (those mechanical centipedes).

So, thulecite can trap both energies, and that is how they were able to control it. The ancients made 2 objects that were used to harvest insane amounts of power, those were the Tragic Torch and the Ancient Cane. One for the shadows and another for the power of the moon.

Maxwell and Charlie

I'm not sure, but I think that Them liked consuming the ancients, and when everything was consumed in the constant, there was nothing left. The moon was making it impossible to reach other places like Shipwreck and Hamlet worlds. So Them went to the Real World and tried to trick someone into using its power, so that Them can consume that world too. Maxwell however was a smart man and knew that he could sacrifice his own body and mind in order to control Them. The throne was keeping him alive, but he was also keeping Them in his hands.

Maxwell renovated some things and created others, everything with the power of shadows. He also bring some creatures from the real world to the constant and created others. He was responsible to renovate the world to his maniac liking.

In an attempt to rapture Maxwell and eventually other people, Them failed and got controlled by it. Maxwell, being influenced by the shadows, got crazier and crazier overtime, the voices kept making him drag more people into the constant, but they weren't being consumed. Wilson ended up finding the throne, Charlie who was lurking in the shadows followed Wilson and obtained the power of the shadows in her hands.

Charlie however was smarter, she didn't need to sacrifice her body, and instead controlled the shadows with only the power of her mind. She can be at places in the constant while still being in control. The voices don't affect her, but she is innocent and naive instead, and believe that Them have good intentions. Them are lying to her, and she is falling for it.

Wagstaff and the moon.

Wagstaff is a real world scientist who found a way to communicate through dimensions with frequencies, and created radios that can transport sound, as well as a portal that can manifest himself in it with a certain frequency. He is interested in the power of the moon, and saw something no one have witnessed before. We don't know what he saw there, but we know that he went to the clouds to get a closer look to it.

My theory is that he couldn't harness the moon power directly, as he would piss Them off. So he created that robot in hamlet to destroy a piece of the moon, making it fall in the ocean. The part that was destroyed contained the last 3 altar pieces missing to obtain the moon's full power.

The ancients were the ones who sculptured all altars, but some of them were taken back by the moon to create a physical representation of a warrior in their own liking. The moon also wanted to consume the world, but needed a physical form to plan against humans.

Then, we know that the celestial champion is a mass destruction weapon that serves the moon. The altars were used by the survivors and Wagstaff to try to harvest its power. Them noticed it and sent the champion down to stop Wagstaff. The survivors killed him, and wagstaff got the energy controlled.

The moon mourned the death of their warrior by staying absent for a day. Being it day or night, the constant faced darkness.

Current state.

Charlie is trying to end the shadows with the power of the moon, she realised that everything was a lie, and wants to trap Them again.

Wagstaff harvested the Celestial Champion soul and is studying how the moon affects things so he can use it properly.

The moon is consuming the world through portals in the surface. It wants the champion's soul back. It is sending warrior gestalts to take over things and creatures to maybe find the soul, which is probably IN the constant, as we don't know if Wagstaff could travel it to the real world.

The shadows are trying to consume everything through portals from below the caves. It wants to destroy humans too, and their only hope now is to send creatures through shadow rifts to erase the survivors.

My theories.

The shadow world is not a different dimension, it is situated below the caves. The nightmare creatures erupted through fissures, and the Ink Blights are way far down the hole, so portals are being used to quick travel them. Ink blights were inspired by the ancients robots, the shadows found a way to manipulate their fuel better with a cloth material obtained unknownly.

The only thing stopping the shadows from consuming everything is the opposite force (moon) through its light.

I'd say that the moon always reigned over the shadows naturally. This natural occurrence made the shadows even angrier.

The moon is also not a different dimension, it is just very high in the sky, but the quickest way to send gestalts there is through portals.

Grazers are an attempt to use some already broken pieces of moon stones to create a creature strong enough to protect the portal.

The moon and shadows can't forge physical materials apparently, and are using what they have to create their soldiers.

 

If you think I'm missing something please write it down here, and if you have something to add here please do it.

Some questions that I have:

Why pigs turn into werepigs?

Why hounds and werepigs try to destroy the moon stone when a star caller is charging?

What is the origin of the monster meat? Spiders, hounds etc..

Why Woodie has a curse? what did he do to the moon in the overworld to get that?

What did Wagstaff saw in the moon that we don't know yet?

EDIT:

The ancient fuelweaver was the king of the ancients and saw the destruction of his kind, he tries to protect you from fixing the portal, because he knows about the Shadows intention.

More questions: 

Assuming that the portal took the survivors to the forge and gorge lands because it was broken, where are these lands at? And is the Gnaw another one of Them or just a demon?

Are the merms cursed goats? And how does the Gnaw maintain this curse on them even when they are far away?

Are the pigs just another cursed being too? But only affected when the moon is up? Why is the moon affecting these pigs? What did they do? Is it through the forge lore? 

What did the nightmare werepig saw that made him endure pure horror in his body? Was it his lunar form? Who is he?

EDIT 2:

The ancients were split into 2 forms, their body (monster meat mush) and their mind (nightmare creatures). Maxwell used this mush to create some creatures in the constant, hence their black fur appearance.

Rabbit and bunnymen eat carrots that heals their eyes, so even if they were made with monster meat, they can perceive the world differently. They are still monsters, but they can control themselves, same as when the survivors get insane, they are smart so they don't get affected.

Monkeys get affected briefly because of the nightmare cycle, that's why they drop morsels, the nightmare wasn't present for long enough to pierce through their skin.

Every creature that drops regular meat was made or altered by Maxwell using already existent things from other places (forge land, gorge land, Shipwreck land and Hamlet land).

Wilson has excessive hair growth due to him being a MAD scientist (fur similar to monster meat, and the one that drops from insane creatures). He is delusional because he thinks he is a great scientist, and this behaviour made the fuel created in his own mind alter his body. That's why his arms are black like the shadows too.

When pigs eat monster meat, their body transform into a wereform to endure the insanity, they are altered by the moon also to endure lunacy. It is a protection mechanism present in their body, the fur makes them not recieve influence from Them. That is why NMWP endures pure horror in his body, and tried to use it to get stronger.

Based on the last short, we know that pigs and merms fought over the swamp, and merms won. Merms are territorial, that is why they attack us on sight.

We also know that pigs attack monster-like creatures because of this protection mechanism I mentioned earlier.

Bunnymen attack monsters because of their fear of being consumed by it. They attack someone holding meat because they fear that survivor is hostile simply.

Edited February 21 by Swiyss

[Swiyss]

Is the pig king related to NMWP? Why is he a giant?

[PunkShark]

6 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Is the pig king related to NMWP? Why is he a giant?

I think Pig king is just a normal pig who got fat and lazy after he left his home in hamlet and his queen so he can rule however he want. 

It is the first time we've ever seen a werepig talk as its usually a lot more feral and animalistic. But this guy is quite different. We know he somehow got powers of the fuel (pure terror being stronger than the usual fuel) after finding a crack, likely a fissure and it has enhanced him beyond of what a full moon does to the ol' regular pigman. He talks, he's giant, muscular, strong and got regenerative powers.
Like the ancients that once got greeted by the fuel the first time it changed their physical appearance and expanded their minds to a higher understanding which would create their love for the fuel and its powers, addictively so like Maxwell. Which we see as well with NW who, even despite being rescued is ever so obsessed that it gained this power and wants to keep it all to himself to a point where it is still highly aggressive (also the fact it's a werepig which aren't usually very friendly).




EDIT:
I feel as though much of the "established" lore here is based on more so theories and loose threads to connect things together but i feel as though much of this is misinformation or lack information.

"Charlie is trying to end the shadows with the power of the moon, she realised that everything was a lie, and wants to trap Them again."

No she is still very much trying to unleash Them upon the world. Last time didn't work because something is missing, lack of power maybe. It's not made clear but her goal is still unleashing Them and that hasn't changed. Charlie feels she owes Them a favor in return to have them be freed. There's the popular theory of her body being used by another entity who used to be the torch-bearer ancient who is a lot more malicious for reasons unknown.


"The voices kept making him drag more people into the constant, but they weren't being consumed."

This is honestly more of a theory than established. There is not a clue to Maxwell's motivation because he pretty much had none. Maxwell being intepretated as the king chess piece is a testament to that. He's sluggish, predictable in contrast to the queen in chess who is more strategic, cunning, much more unpredictable.
The reason why he took people is because after he (citation from the stageplay) hid himself away in adventure mode with the throne he grew bored, took people to see them struggle in a world he partly created. They were getting impatient because their plan was to be freed which Maxwell did not do, he went and did his own thing which in return would have him be entrapped upon the throne and tortured until their saviour (that being Charlie) would come and take the throne. 

He took people of who he thought was right for the pickings, people who wronged him or some who had information he required or wanted gone. From the average joe to people in need of a favor. kids, adults, didn't matter. As long as he had entertainment for his twisted mind that he had become and game he created.
His egotism had gone so high above the clouds and hit mars that he thought he was an otherworldly being, something far more than human after being in a position of power, even if he was stuck. But more importantly he was an empty husk of a man when we meet him in checkmate. He's tried several ways of escape to no avail until he pretty much gave up. If he wanted to be freed he would've told us long time ago but his ego just didn't allow it. He liked being in position of power, the addiction that he can't steer away from despite the ragtime, the throne and Them all eating his mind away.

"when everything was consumed in the constant, there was nothing left. The moon was making it impossible to reach other places like Shipwreck and Hamlet worlds. So Them went to the Real World and tried to trick someone into using its power, so that Them can consume that world too."

I'm not sure if i understand this part. They never got far to consume the constant because the ancients broke off the connection before everything went haywire, it was enough to cause much amount of damage to their civilization and its people and the only one who was left was the fuelweaver (the cane-bearer, not the skeleton) grieving at his throne because he overused the fuel and unleashed Them on his own people by his own arrogance and lost their partner because of it. The destruction was enough to cause a permanent leak within the gateway as the civilization was powered on it and would cause shadow creatures to invade everywhere if your mind was going insane enough to see them. All except for the source or if enough darkness is there.

"he created that robot in hamlet to destroy a piece of the moon, making it fall in the ocean. The part that was destroyed contained the last 3 altar pieces missing to obtain the moon's full power."

Honestly i'm surprised this isn't in the theory section. The ancient hulk in hamlet is old ancient technology so it can't have been created by Wagstaff, he says himself it's ancient technology.
Charlie were likely the one who unleashed Alter since she needed something from it to power up the tragic torch for her plans. What she needs it for is not known but it'll likely return whenever she gets close to unleash Them. The moon in hamlet was before we knew about it being a part of something more and i don't think Wagstaff himself knew during this time since his obsession was about the fuel during this time.

i'm cutting it here since i feel this post is already getting a bit long but yeah these are the ones i picked up on.

Edited February 21 by PunkShark

[Antynomity]

I think that Wagstaff is trying to establish a trade route of some sorts between the Constant and the real World.

Through quotes He expresses interest in the Constant's materials and hardware being used to 'solve' problems of the real World.

Edited February 21 by Antynomity

[The Starver]

9 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Assuming that the portal took the survivors to the forge and gorge lands because it was broken, where are these lands at? And is the Gnaw another one of Them or just a demon?

I think that the Gorge is just another continent, very far away from the rest of the Constant, while the Forge is a completely different dimension that smells like bacon and sweat. The Gnaw is just a mysterious being that decided to curse the Goats.

9 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Charlie is trying to end the shadows with the power of the moon, she realised that everything was a lie, and wants to trap Them again

No. My theory is that They are a gestalt entity. If you don't know what that means, look it up. It also explains the name "Them," if They're actually all a single consciousness.

[BalkanCockroach]

1 minute ago, The Starver said:

I think that the Gorge is just another continent, very far away from the rest of the Constant, while the Forge is a completely different dimension that smells like bacon and sweat. The Gnaw is just a mysterious being that decided to curse the Goats.

That unlikely cause you go to Gorge via the portal from Forge. And return via the portal too. If Gorge is in the constant then why don't it's inhabitants try to escape by sailing? Because the Gnaw would slurp them up or make them merm? Who knows.

[The Starver]

1 minute ago, BalkanCockroach said:

That unlikely cause you go to Gorge via the portal from Forge. And return via the portal too. If Gorge is in the constant then why don't it's inhabitants try to escape by sailing? Because the Gnaw would slurp them up or make them merm? Who knows.

Yet the Goats became the Merms... maybe they couldn't escape by sailing fast enough to get away from the Gnaw?

[BalkanCockroach]

1 minute ago, The Starver said:

Yet the Goats became the Merms... maybe they couldn't escape by sailing fast enough to get away from the Gnaw?

I still don't think Gorge is in the constant but if we assume it is. Then i guess the goats and pigs that became mermified just swam their way into the constant.

[The Starver]

Another interesting thing that was brought to my attention: look at this picture of the Aporkalypse Calendar:

There are TWO MOONS!!! If there are two moons, that would also explain why the Aporkalypse was shown in two different places to be a lunar and solar eclipse at the same time!

This isn't my theory. All credit goes to the guy who realized this.

[Uedo]

5 minutes ago, The Starver said:

Another interesting thing that was brought to my attention: look at this picture of the Aporkalypse Calendar:

There are TWO MOONS!!! If there are two moons, that would also explain why the Aporkalypse was shown in two different places to be a lunar and solar eclipse at the same time!

This isn't my theory. All credit goes to the guy who realized this.

I vaguely remember promo material stating there was two moons, If i'm remembering rightly one is a regular moon and the full one is the reason for the aporkalypse.

[BalkanCockroach]

7 minutes ago, Uedo said:

one is a regular moon and the full one is the reason for the aporkalypse.

Doesn't that make none of the moons regular cause the "normal" moon is alter?

[-Variant]

7 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I still don't think Gorge is in the constant but if we assume it is. Then i guess the goats and pigs that became mermified just swam their way into the constant.

I've always liked believing the Gorge and Forge are in the same plane, just very, very, very far aware.

Especially with this quote, I like to think some of the Merms swam so far they nestled and started making places like the mainland and SW islands their home!

[Swiyss]

12 hours ago, PunkShark said:

"when everything was consumed in the constant, there was nothing left. The moon was making it impossible to reach other places like Shipwreck and Hamlet worlds. So Them went to the Real World and tried to trick someone into using its power, so that Them can consume that world too."

I was talking about how maxwell said that when he got there there was nothing but dust and Them. The moon is opposed to the shadows as I think, so it was not letting the shadows reach too deep after the great unleash. That's why there are nightmares in Hamlet and Shipwreck, but the civilizations still remain, they weren't completely consumed like the constant. There is currently 0 ancients alive, but their flash was left in the dust, and Maxwell used this to create hounds, spiders etc.. out of his own mind, close to things that already existed in the real world. Pigs and Merms came from Hamlet and Gorge. they would instead be gone if the moon and gnaw didn't let them, both got curses.

12 hours ago, PunkShark said:

"The voices kept making him drag more people into the constant, but they weren't being consumed."

He got bored, sure, that is what I meant by that. I'm not saying that 100% of the reason that he kidnapped people was due to the shadows, but both were working somewhat together. Maliciously.

12 hours ago, PunkShark said:

"he created that robot in hamlet to destroy a piece of the moon, making it fall in the ocean. The part that was destroyed contained the last 3 altar pieces missing to obtain the moon's full power."

Yeah, if it's ancient, then this theory is wrong. I still don't know why the moon felt down tho.

[PunkShark]

8 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I was talking about how maxwell said that when he got there there was nothing but dust and Them. The moon is opposed to the shadows as I think, so it was not letting the shadows reach too deep after the great unleash. That's why there are nightmares in Hamlet and Shipwreck, but the civilizations still remain, they weren't completely consumed like the constant. There is currently 0 ancients alive, but their flash was left in the dust, and Maxwell used this to create hounds, spiders etc.. out of his own mind, close to things that already existed in the real world. Pigs and Merms came from Hamlet and Gorge. they would instead be gone if the moon and gnaw didn't let them, both got curses.

The biggest conclusion to his monolgue was that he was talking about the throne room. Cause otherwise it makes no sense since we know the constant was already inhabited by pigs, merms, the ancients, bees, rabbits and so on (not in this specific order). "I've learned so much since then. I've built so much." is in reference to everything we see in checkmate, all the things he has created and learned from the time of being here, at a point where maybe he wasn't always locked onto the chair where he weren't as weakened and hopeless. The place is shrouded in darkness where no light hits and it's pretty much a wasteland so dust and void makes more sense for it to be the throne room. Or he's speaking of a different place entirely. Either way his words do not make sense if he is talking about the Constant as a whole.

It was already a living breathing ecosystem before his arrival so They never got far from where they were since the ancients stopped it. It wasn't enough to save them but it was enough to stop its influence from spreading to a high degree outside of the ruins because they severed the connection to Them. They can't do any more harm than what they've already done because their power is only limited in the ruins (or the codex or the throne) where its influence lies and it can only go so far. The shadows can only be seen in low sanity because that's the closest we can get to comprehend them at their lowest. But in the ruins, we don't have to do that, they just exist even if we aren't insane because the connection is stronger because we're closer to the source. Darkness is where these things thrive. wether or not it's the darkness in the human psyche or if its literal darkness. The more we open up to it, the more we begin to understand, succumbing ourselves to the madness. And Them being something not living but in itself being insanity or beyond the concept of that. Maxwell took the path of insanity by opening up his mind to the codex's secrets by studying and delving deeper which in return made him a victim of the shadows and Them. But the codex in general is a gateway to the shadows having lnfluence on our psyche.



It's the same with Alter. While the shadows are about the dark corners of your mind Alter is more.. inner peace, calming, leading you into a false sense of security while opening your mind to once again a higher understanding, enlightenment where other beings, the gestalts exists but only where Alter's influence is strong enough to have a connection. Lunar island, the grotto are the most prominent like the ruins where the influence is strong enough to reach our mind.
Alter has been laid dormant for a long time so it hasn't had any influence in the constant all except for full moons and even that is very little. Only the reflection of the shell has some kind of effect and despite the oddities, it still acts like a moon. Aporkalypse in this case is very odd since it's a play that a solar eclipse is a sign of the world ending. Personally i don't think it has much meaning? And that it's just because solar eclipse mean black moon = shadows. But i don't think it changes much of what we already know.

[The Starver]

15 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I still don't know why the moon felt down tho.

I do. Alter decided to take a more active part in the Constant after Charlie and the Survivors began meddling with the shadows.

4 hours ago, PunkShark said:

Aporkalypse in this case is very odd since it's a play that a solar eclipse is a sign of the world ending

It's even weirder because the moon tracker shows a lunar eclipse, while the trailer showed a solar eclipse... but the shadow moon might have been the shadows' weak attempt at challenging Alter in his own domain.

[Cassielu]

3 hours ago, The Starver said:

lunar eclipse

Interestingly, Alter's lunar cycle is not formed by reflecting sunlight, but by shining itself, so a red moon does not necessarily represent lunar eclipse.

18 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I still don't know why the moon felt down tho.

I think this is the norm, and we overstate the impact of shadow. Most shadow-related incidents can be traced back to a clear shadow magic user, using this power for thier own purpose. Not "shadow itself."

Edited February 22 by Cassielu

[marshyds]

On 2/21/2024 at 9:36 AM, Swiyss said:

Assuming that the portal took the survivors to the forge and gorge lands because it was broken, where are these lands at? And is the Gnaw another one of Them or just a demon?

Are the merms cursed goats? And how does the Gnaw maintain this curse on them even when they are far away?

Are the pigs just another cursed being too? But only affected when the moon is up? Why is the moon affecting these pigs? What did they do? Is it through the forge lore? 

What did the nightmare werepig saw that made him endure pure horror in his body? Was it his lunar form? Who is he?

1) I think the gnaw could be a similar situation to the nightmare werepig where it's like an "overfueled" wormhole that now has an insatiable hunger.

2) The merms could be anything, really.

I think the curse being maintained is a simple matter of it being similar to terminal illness, being permanently paralysed by poison, ect.

It's just permanent.

3) Since the NIGHTMARE werepig resembles a werepig on a full moon, i have a theory.

It's an allergic reaction to moon energies!

Since pigmen are constant creatures, they probably have a little nightmare fuel inside of them. On full moons the fuel just gets a lil cranky and the werepig form is a counter attack to the energy (But since nightmare fuel is related to insanity, the pigmen also turn feral when in werehog form

4) There aren't any pigman houses in the caves, so im not sure how a pig could even end up there.