Should raid bosses have solo scaling or be reworked.

[BalkanCockroach]

Lot of high health bosses with minions and multiplayer mechanics are annoying. Please repy to the post so our voices can be heard. Or vote nah they're fine as they are.

Edited January 8 by BalkanCockroach

[arubaro]

Just rework the boring ones

If they add hp scaling they should add loot scaling aswerll

[BalkanCockroach]

5 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Just rework the boring ones

If they add hp scaling they should add loot scaling aswerll

So we get half an enlightened crown? Or will that stuff be 100 drop rate. 

Edited January 8 by BalkanCockroach

[arubaro]

29 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

So we get half an enlightened crown? Or will that stuff be 100 drop rate. 

See? That is one of the reasons why people asking for reduced health is asking for something dumb. In multiplayer you need to kill one CC for each player

Scaling hp is already in the game, is called voltgoat jelly

[BalkanCockroach]

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

See? That is one of the reasons why people asking for reduced health is asking for something dumb. In multiplayer you need to kill one CC for each player

CC is basically a free kill in multiplayer so you just have to farm the moon gleams and shards and the static. Im okay with them not touching CC. The minion spam bosses however, are abother case.

[Ridley]

I think a boss like Bee Queen should have her bee numbers reduced a bit at the start of the fight. If you reach certain damage thresholds (like stunning dragonfly) then she ramps up her powers and maybe uses new tricks, while dropping extra jelly or materials to make multiple Bee Queen hats. This way lets solo players have a challenging fight without forcing them to bring a truckload of equipment into the fight, but also encourages players to work together to maximize the loot. I'm sure some solo players will enjoy finding ways to reach those damage thresholds so they experience an even harder fight with more loot to make a youtube video about. Revisiting bosses with stronger gear would also allow the fight to scale to meet the player's power level this way.

Just don't gate loot drops behind the boss's optional difficulty like Misery Toadstool or there is no longer a point in fighting the weaker version anymore.

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, Ridley said:

I think a boss like Bee Queen should have her bee numbers reduced a bit at the start of the fight

At the start of the fight you can let her with just 1 bee

3 minutes ago, Ridley said:

This way lets solo players have a challenging fight without forcing them to bring a truckload of equipment into the fight

You only need few beekeeper hats and at most 3 marble suits (18 marble) to get the bests items in the game

Or use mobs since you can hire mobs to help you fight since DS single player

Or you can use volt goat jelly

Or winnona catapults

 

Not against making bq fight more dynamic but i think that after the refreshes and with the new skill trees these kind of topics are way more dumb than before. Characters are getting a huge power creep in combat so adding scaling makes less sense than ever

19 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

CC is basically a free kill in multiplayer so you just have to farm the moon gleams and shards and the static. Im okay with them not touching CC. The minion spam bosses however, are abother case.

Use the tools the games offers you instead of wanting them to become an overkill because bosses are nerfed for lazy people wanting loot for free

You have maaaaaany stuff to make fights easier and you can always instal an anime character mod if isnt enough with x3 electrical damage, aoe cheap catapuls, bunnymen and pigmen, gun powder, etc

[BalkanCockroach]

4 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Not against making bq fight more dynamic but i think that after the refreshes and with the new skill trees these kind of topics are way more dumb than before. Characters are getting a huge power creep in combat so adding scaling makes less sense than ever

This i can agree with 100%. characters becoming really strong so maybe we really don't need scaling. Still beequeen could get a nice rework.

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

aoe cheap catapuls, bunnymen and pigmen, gun powder, etc

That's not fun i wanna do it legit. I do excuse myself when doing d fly wall tho so maybe you are right.

[Yuuko]

I think largely the game is balanced fine for single player - the only question is are you willing to play the game how its written?  Building walls, utilizing mobs, and otherwise preparing for and taking control of a fight are part of the game.  Not every fight needs to be able to be done with a sword and armor "like a real man" or w/e.

[arubaro]

8 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

I think largely the game is balanced fine for single player - the only question is are you willing to play the game how its written?  Building walls, utilizing mobs, and otherwise preparing for and taking control of a fight are part of the game.  Not every fight needs to be able to be done with a sword and armor "like a real man" or w/e.

Nah, people expect to kill optional bosses with what they have in their daily inventory. Half football helmet, 2 butterflies and a spear should be all you need to kill every boss, other than that dst, a crafting survival sandbox, is asking for grind.

Imagine interacting with a videgame mechanics 

I really think that some people i readed suggesting these things are too used to adventure games and they expect to kill everything by just progressing in the narrative without prep of any kind like the users complaining about requiring a weather pain to kill FW or faming silk to kill BQ...

Edited January 8 by arubaro

[Evelo]

I think health scaling is fine. While it is doable to kill high HP bosses like Bee Queen, CC, AFW, Toadstool, Dfly it just takes a little too long I feel as a purely solo player. Takes me 3 days of just holding F on Toadstool. It isn't fun or challenging! Lowering the HP could also disincentivize the use of more exploitative mechanics that some people may be inclined to do just to make a boss fight go by faster. (Examples include AFW Lureplant Houndius, shoving a frozen Toadstool and Lureplant wall so he doesnt do anything, etc).

I like the Bee Queen fight mechanically. I just don't want to spend 4 days running back and forth to kill her, 2 days is long enough, 1 would be preferable so long as the challenge is present.

[Kwaik]

Scaling would've been nice years ago 

At this point I think focusing on future content should be the priority, albeit I'm always on board with crab king being reworked

I'd rather see a NG + type hard mode (think terraria) where all bosses have enhanced attributes/new abilities instead of them reworking the regular bosses in game. (adding the lunar and potentially shadow versions of these bosses would essentially be the same thing) 

To me it's just an unnecessary use of resources/effort to work on old bosses 

 

That said if improving the quality of old bosses was the issue, power creep is the best way to resolve this. The skill trees are one component of this, then adding in some items/weapons/armor food etc would further "rebalance" these old bosses. And them being too easy for experienced/skilled players would be resolved by having new hard mode or lunar/shadow variants. 

 

TLDR is there's better ways to balance old bosses without directly changing them. That shipped sailed years ago 

Edited January 9 by Kwaik

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

See? That is one of the reasons why people asking for reduced health is asking for something dumb. In multiplayer you need to kill one CC for each player

Scaling hp is already in the game, is called voltgoat jelly

No it’s not, well it’s not for any other boss besides CrabKing, EoT<ToT, & Toad/Misery Toad.

But you want to know what hilariously & quite Ironically IS in the game?

The ability to scale the amount of damage you take to 40% less, default, or 40% More.

So when you can tell me exactly what the heck toggling Dragonfly to Less or More does- And more importantly what it SHOULD do.. then we can officially talk about boss scaling.

[Yuuko]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

So when you can tell me exactly what the heck toggling Dragonfly to Less or More does- And more importantly what it SHOULD do.. then we can officially talk about boss scaling.

Setting dfly to more decreases the time for respawn so that you can fight it more.  Setting it to less or none increases the time.

Toggling any monster to more / less adjusts their population in the world either by increasing their quantity or spawn rate.

Edited January 9 by Yuuko

[Ridley]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

At the start of the fight you can let her with just 1 bee

I know, but this is unintuitive way of exploiting her AI. I was trying to suggest a longer respawn/weaker bee stats/smaller cap on the grumble bees that scales the challenge according to the player's power.

Quote

You only need few beekeeper hats and at most 3 marble suits (18 marble) to get the bests items in the game

And healing items? And something for light? And if you aren't experienced at fighting Bee Queen you will likely fail and lose all the items you brought? People think losing a boat is expensive, but a failed raid boss is a way steeper charge.

Quote

Characters are getting a huge power creep in combat so adding scaling makes less sense than ever

Scaling makes more sense then ever because the bosses can be harder in response. What if mowing down Bee Queen's bees made her change her tactics up or something?

Quote

Use the tools the games offers you instead of wanting them to become an [easy?] kill because bosses are nerfed for lazy people wanting loot for free

It is pretty frustrating to spend hours doing a boring grind for healing items/followers/whatever to fail against a boss, do it enough times to finally succeed, look back on the whole experience and think, "I never had any fun along the way", and then get called lazy. I've had enough of the boss and will probably just skip it next time since I find its loot completely unnecessary.

 

Quote

gun powder

Gun powder is a trap. It takes forever to make, can easily miss, and doesn't effect Toadstool much. 

[Cheggf]

You can already scale their health to whatever value you want by adjusting your damage. They'll have more health if you use Wes and/or weaker weapons like spears or axes, they'll have less health if you use characters like Wolfgang or Wigfrid and/or stronger weapons like ham bats or dark swords. You can scale their health down even further with things like Warly's food, catapults, minions such as bunnymen, etc. 

[Hi.]

What Klei could do is rework the bosses that are bad, and make them just as hard to do in multiplayer as in a solo world.(Kinda like Klaus or Nightmare Werepig) But still make the fight fair but not too easy.

Edited January 9 by Hi.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

You can already scale their health to whatever value you want by adjusting your damage. They'll have more health if you use Wes and/or weaker weapons like spears or axes, they'll have less health if you use characters like Wolfgang or Wigfrid and/or stronger weapons like ham bats or dark swords. You can scale their health down even further with things like Warly's food, catapults, minions such as bunnymen, etc. 

Expertly put.

[Sanitar]

Bosses in DST are the worst part of the game. To get at least some pleasure from the boss battle, you need to play as Wolfgang or Wanda.

Do you know why most people play for Wolfgang or Wanda? Because other characters are not capable of fighting bosses, that is, other characters will suffer on bosses. Killing a boss for 20 minutes who has one attack is not fun

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

At least make it an option. There's little reason not to besides development time or whatever.

[Yuuko]

18 minutes ago, Sanitar said:

Bosses in DST are the worst part of the game. To get at least some pleasure from the boss battle, you need to play as Wolfgang or Wanda.

Do you know why most people play for Wolfgang or Wanda? Because other characters are not capable of fighting bosses, that is, other characters will suffer on bosses. Killing a boss for 20 minutes who has one attack is not fun

Do most people play as Wolfgang or Wanda?

iirc there is a tracker for character use metrics...  idk what it is though.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Sanitar said:

Bosses in DST are the worst part of the game. To get at least some pleasure from the boss battle, you need to play as Wolfgang or Wanda.

Do you know why most people play for Wolfgang or Wanda? Because other characters are not capable of fighting bosses, that is, other characters will suffer on bosses. Killing a boss for 20 minutes who has one attack is not fun

Most played character charts say otherwise

Not "most people" think like you

[Sanitar]

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

Do most people play as Wolfgang or Wanda?

 

I exaggerated by accident.

[Mike23Ua]

There a lot of people who ignore bosses & avoid interacting with them at all because fighting them puts them in Danger of dying, more danger than they would otherwise be in if they opted to completely ignore interaction with the boss.

The only Exceptions for this are Deerclops & Bearger who if not fought, or atleast lured away someplace else.. can cause widespread chaos to your world.

Antlion has its sinkholes sure, BUT you can also Passively disable her aggressiveness by giving her the SandCastle toy which thanks to the Cult of the Lamb Crossover- Is now very high chances to obtain In the Oasis during Summer anyway.

The player never needs to actually interact with Dragonfly at all if the players chooses not to bother with her loot drops.

Sure sure yeah you get Amazing Green and Yellow gems or whatever- But the likelihood of someone who struggles to fight Dragonfly actually knowing how to reliably use said Gems is pretty low.

The thing about NOT interacting with the bosses though is that you miss out on a unique piece of the games gameplay content- And why???

Because the bosses can’t be scaled to be enjoyed by players of various skill levels.

In conclusion: I don’t think anyone who plays DST in “Relaxed Mode” should still need to deal with a 27,500 hp Boss, Or a Crab King Quest that DEMANDS you to fight his more powerful forms with the Pearl socketed jewel.

And there’s not a whole lot anyone can really say that’s going to change my opinion.

But- I’d still love it if the games actual developers would weigh in on their stance on the subject.

Edited January 9 by Mike23Ua

[HowlVoid]

I vote for mechanics scaling

1-Bee queen, longer cooldown between grumble spawns with less players. (Everyone ignores them anyways/otherwise)

2-Crab King, less claw hp/less claws and lower Regen/Regen interruption with less players.

3-Fuelweaver, less hp regained per woven shadow eaten/less woven shadows.

4-Dragonfly, less lavae spawned. They are already "cheesed" as solo players.

5-Toad stool, less mush trees spawned/easier to cut down.

These are just examples but the gist of it is to follow in example to what Klaus has.

Edited January 9 by HowlVoid